How Do You Balance.....

[FaeryFire]

I didnt read the whole thread, so if I repeat anything I am very sorry.

It does seem like there are never enough hours in the day, and that's why I recommend text messaging. It's quick, it can be sweet, you can take your time to reply if you need to, you can do it anywhere and if you've got a text-based plan it's cheap.

Even if you were not in a D/s relationship, he'd probably still feel neglected. It's just a natural reaction. Hope makes everything easier to get through though, let him know the little ways you try to save money to be able to eventually move in with him. Let him know that even though the contact is less that you think of him just as much.

Can you make a time every day that is just for him? Even if it's not long, it's another way to show commitment, even if it means getting up an hour earlier or missing a fav TV show. It could be your lunchbreak even. Just a set amount of time that you can promise to him. It might not be workable for you, I don't know, but it's an idea.

Depression - Gods, it's a curse isn't it. Don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't feel guilty. Don't give it that chance to fester and take hold. *comfort hug*

Take cares,
~Fae

 

[catalina_francisco]

no, the depression came on before all of this started happening, i've been off my meds for a while now. i know i cannot fix her life and i'm not trying to. i did not drop everything and arrange to move into her house, it's just something that happened. i made plans for the summer with my friend because she has kids. my kids and her kids play together. in years past i've done nothing with with my kids for the summer, this year we will be going to the lake, camping, etc....i see nothing wrong with that, and Master has no problem with it either. i would love to make Plans with Master but being that He is 2000 miles away, that's just not possible this summer.

as far as making excuses as to why we don't just drop everything and move in together now, well neither of us have the money for that. that is not an excuse, that IS our reality. i don't think what you were saying is harsh, i understand what you were saying, but that is where a huge difference lies in the way we live our lives cat. because if my dad was sick, and Master told me i could go be with Him, but i had to be back in a certain amount of time, i probably wouldn't go back at all. just like i won't turn my back on my best friend.

i need to find the balance...meaning i need to find a way to give both of them my time without making one of them feel less important, maybe that's not how most of you live the D/s lifestyle. i mean i know Master comes first, but ya know i'm not going to turn my back on a friend either. Master and i DO still talk, i do still give Him time, just not as much as i used to, and that is the problem, the adjustment to not being able to chat 24/7....

like i said, i don't think you were being harsh, and you know i respect your opinion and again it's given me alot to think about, but i'm not turning my back on either one of them and neither one of them want me to do that. they get along, they are friends also. i just need to learn how to balance my time with them...that's all......and i will......Master and i have been chatting most of the night. it's late here and i'm sorry if i'm not making sense...i'm gonna end this post here......

I hear what you are saying, but I also think you are not facing the reality as much as you think. Let me explain a little why I say that as I have a lot of time for you both and I an relate to being in a bad place in a relationship, even a D/s one, and not being able to see a way out because you are too immersed in it all. Firstly, things like moving in with someone else don't just happen, especially when you both have kids and a life involved...it takes organising and actually physically doing as you already know from your efforts to work out how you and MP can be together 24/7. You were presented with a situation and you chose to move in with her, just as you have chosen to now have her move in with you during the summer...it is a choice, not something that happened while you were sleeping. It has meant you do not have time, and in the beginning, means, to continue your level of communication with MP, and you see that as OK despite knowing how it is affecting him and your relationship. Why do you feel OK to put your friends needs before MP's? I am not trying to judge, just perhaps offer some wquestions for you to look at to help you balance things out a little more egalitarian for all involved.

Despite the depression already being back, this can not be helping at all. Is it possible for you to begin meds again if you feel they help? Depression can make us do bad things to those we love most and not even see it at the time...it is a nightmare that often steers us on paths we would never in a million years dream of taking were we fully in control of our mind and body.

As to money and being together.....we actually also had no money and were living paycheck to paycheck. Is waiting going to make it possible to find that money, or would it work better as it did for us to just admit being together was more important than anything else and making it work. We were fortunate F had friends who were about to throw some of their old furniture away and gave it to us instead....5 years later, we have only last month replaced the last piece that was given to us with our own. It took us that long to be able to afford to replace it, but in the meantime we had 5 years together....if we had continued to wait until everything was perfect, I have no doubt I would still be in Oz and he in Europe saying we were trying to get it together.

As to priorities with friends and relatives, F is supportive and also generous, but he does also make sure I do not lose sight of the commitment we made to each other. I was allowed to wait in Oz until my mother left hospital and spend a few days getting her settled back at home and help her make arrangements for what she needed etc. We also used that time to talk about my father's suicide, how we were feeling and why, dealing with issues we had left buried until then, but I still had only just over 3 weeks before I had to return home. It sounds harsh, but reality was my mother had other family and also neighbours who were there to help and she was also back in her home and ready to rebuild her life and deal with what had happened and I had made a conscious decision to look for and commit to this type relationship fully aware that I could not switch it off when something else came up I would prefer or like to do. We have talked about this before and it is what I was saying before makes it difficult at times and needs to be considered before entering a M/s relationship where you commit to such restrictions.

Some see it as a choice which is lived only when the conditions are OK, others like us live it as a lifestyle and it has to work alongside what others call life...for us it is all part of life, not an additonal aspect which can be put on hold. Don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of work to maintain that simply because we are nearly all raised in a mainstream mindset which creeps back in if you let it when things get more difficult or time less available, but then it is about remembering what it is you want and why and honouring that. It is the same as a mainstream relationship during which you don't just switch the relationship on and off when circumstances demand...if I were in a vanilla marriage I would still not be likely to give my time and presence to another for an extended amount of time while F was left sitting here alone...it just is not who I am.

While you say MP comes first, you say in the same breath you are not going to turn your back on your friend for him, and that if he pushed things you would chose the friend over him and not return to him!! How is this putting him first? No one has suggested you forget your friend, but I think most have thought perhaps in trying to balance things out you don't place her needs as a priority over his which it seems you are when you make it a choice and choose her. As has been said, you can be supportive of another without giving them all your time and taking time away from your relationship and love. Maybe it is just me, but if I were wanting to be living with someone I loved and had been planning to for a long time and then they moved in with a friend or V V, I would also be hurt and perhaps even jealous even though the relationship was not a romantic one....it is just about knowing someone else is in the position you want to be and in a way no matter how you cut it, that decision is going to extend the time until you can both be together, and might even seem to be saying it just isn't even being thought about right now because the friend needs you more...don't make it a competition with MP being put on the lower rung of the ladder. It is a natural reaction to be hurt when a person is displaced from having x amount of your time and attention to a lot less in favour of another.

I am assuming your friend was given a choice about accepting the care of the children? MP did not get a choice in this at all from what you say. It is great she chose to go ahead, but in doing so she made a commitment to caring for them, not you caring for her and them...it is not your problem as hard as that sounds...be supportive, give a hand if and when you can, but don't put your life on hold to help her do what she agreed to do herself....she made a choice and commitment, you were not given that choice, or more realistically, you did not give yourself that choice, you just jumped in and took on her responsibility so yes, you are trying to fix or at least make her life work for her when your own is having difficulties because of it. Is this really making you happy? Is it what you want for your future?

I am happy you and MP have been talking, but please listen to what is being said, not just the parts you want to hear, and think about what you really want. Perhaps if you imagine yourself in the reverse situation with MP cutting down contact to spend time helping and having fun with a friend, it might help you see more how he is feeling and why. You are not talking about a week or 23 here, you seem to be talking about an indefinite amount of time which could be months or more...it is a big change and one I don't envy you trying to balance out. All you can do is take time out to look at what you want and need, not what your friend needs or wants, not what MP needs or wants, just what is most important to you....from there you might be able to find how the balance will work best.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

And now for a little devil's advocacy:

If either of my boys had whined about the dynamic while I was flat on my ass and loaded with steroids they'd be whining alone still.

Admittedly I'm the person making those decisions in my relationship, and I'm talking about myself and not other people - but what if this was happening to *you*

Conversely, MP, is this something you can live with when the defectation hits the ventilation, to use a stupid phrase.

Everyone has to decide what kind of relationship they want to have. No relationship is ideal stressed to its maximum, but that's when you learn if its one you can live with or not. There is more stress in life than not.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I hear what you are saying, but I also think you are not facing the reality as much as you think. Let me explain a little why I say that as I have a lot of time for you both and I an relate to being in a bad place in a relationship, even a D/s one, and not being able to see a way out because you are too immersed in it all. Firstly, things like moving in with someone else don't just happen, especially when you both have kids and a life involved...it takes organising and actually physically doing as you already know from your efforts to work out how you and MP can be together 24/7. You were presented with a situation and you chose to move in with her, just as you have chosen to now have her move in with you during the summer...it is a choice, not something that happened while you were sleeping. It has meant you do not have time, and in the beginning, means, to continue your level of communication with MP, and you see that as OK despite knowing how it is affecting him and your relationship. Why do you feel OK to put your friends needs before MP's? I am not trying to judge, just perhaps offer some wquestions for you to look at to help you balance things out a little more egalitarian for all involved.

Despite the depression already being back, this can not be helping at all. Is it possible for you to begin meds again if you feel they help? Depression can make us do bad things to those we love most and not even see it at the time...it is a nightmare that often steers us on paths we would never in a million years dream of taking were we fully in control of our mind and body.

As to money and being together.....we actually also had no money and were living paycheck to paycheck. Is waiting going to make it possible to find that money, or would it work better as it did for us to just admit being together was more important than anything else and making it work. We were fortunate F had friends who were about to throw some of their old furniture away and gave it to us instead....5 years later, we have only last month replaced the last piece that was given to us with our own. It took us that long to be able to afford to replace it, but in the meantime we had 5 years together....if we had continued to wait until everything was perfect, I have no doubt I would still be in Oz and he in Europe saying we were trying to get it together.

As to priorities with friends and relatives, F is supportive and also generous, but he does also make sure I do not lose sight of the commitment we made to each other. I was allowed to wait in Oz until my mother left hospital and spend a few days getting her settled back at home and help her make arrangements for what she needed etc. We also used that time to talk about my father's suicide, how we were feeling and why, dealing with issues we had left buried until then, but I still had only just over 3 weeks before I had to return home. It sounds harsh, but reality was my mother had other family and also neighbours who were there to help and she was also back in her home and ready to rebuild her life and deal with what had happened and I had made a conscious decision to look for and commit to this type relationship fully aware that I could not switch it off when something else came up I would prefer or like to do. We have talked about this before and it is what I was saying before makes it difficult at times and needs to be considered before entering a M/s relationship where you commit to such restrictions.

Some see it as a choice which is lived only when the conditions are OK, others like us live it as a lifestyle and it has to work alongside what others call life...for us it is all part of life, not an additonal aspect which can be put on hold. Don't get me wrong, it takes a lot of work to maintain that simply because we are nearly all raised in a mainstream mindset which creeps back in if you let it when things get more difficult or time less available, but then it is about remembering what it is you want and why and honouring that. It is the same as a mainstream relationship during which you don't just switch the relationship on and off when circumstances demand...if I were in a vanilla marriage I would still not be likely to give my time and presence to another for an extended amount of time while F was left sitting here alone...it just is not who I am.

While you say MP comes first, you say in the same breath you are not going to turn your back on your friend for him, and that if he pushed things you would chose the friend over him and not return to him!! How is this putting him first? No one has suggested you forget your friend, but I think most have thought perhaps in trying to balance things out you don't place her needs as a priority over his which it seems you are when you make it a choice and choose her. As has been said, you can be supportive of another without giving them all your time and taking time away from your relationship and love. Maybe it is just me, but if I were wanting to be living with someone I loved and had been planning to for a long time and then they moved in with a friend or V V, I would also be hurt and perhaps even jealous even though the relationship was not a romantic one....it is just about knowing someone else is in the position you want to be and in a way no matter how you cut it, that decision is going to extend the time until you can both be together, and might even seem to be saying it just isn't even being thought about right now because the friend needs you more...don't make it a competition with MP being put on the lower rung of the ladder. It is a natural reaction to be hurt when a person is displaced from having x amount of your time and attention to a lot less in favour of another.

I am assuming your friend was given a choice about accepting the care of the children? MP did not get a choice in this at all from what you say. It is great she chose to go ahead, but in doing so she made a commitment to caring for them, not you caring for her and them...it is not your problem as hard as that sounds...be supportive, give a hand if and when you can, but don't put your life on hold to help her do what she agreed to do herself....she made a choice and commitment, you were not given that choice, or more realistically, you did not give yourself that choice, you just jumped in and took on her responsibility so yes, you are trying to fix or at least make her life work for her when your own is having difficulties because of it. Is this really making you happy? Is it what you want for your future?

I am happy you and MP have been talking, but please listen to what is being said, not just the parts you want to hear, and think about what you really want. Perhaps if you imagine yourself in the reverse situation with MP cutting down contact to spend time helping and having fun with a friend, it might help you see more how he is feeling and why. You are not talking about a week or 23 here, you seem to be talking about an indefinite amount of time which could be months or more...it is a big change and one I don't envy you trying to balance out. All you can do is take time out to look at what you want and need, not what your friend needs or wants, not what MP needs or wants, just what is most important to you....from there you might be able to find how the balance will work best.

Catalina

everything you said has made sense to me and made me think, except where you said that i said i'd choose my friend over him, i said that about my family. that if i were put in the position you were where my dad was sick and he gave me a time limit to be back in, then i probably wouldn't go back. i would not choose a friend over Him. luckily neither one of them would make me choose. not sure if you've read the distance domination support thread yet or not but things are changing...i'm not sure where we're going, but we'll see.....thanks everyone for your support and making me think.....

 

[Etoile]

I think you owe it to MP to maintain your relationship with him even as you are helping your friend. And I think MP owes it to you to allow you a little leeway. That is how you balance. You each have to consider the thing that you want to do most, and then give a little over to the other side. I'm sure MP would rather have your attentions on himself, but I also think he cares enough about you to know that you would feel awful abandoning your friend, and I don't think he'd expect you to do that. Similarly, I imagine the thing you would like to do is help the friend you've known for so long who is truly in a time of crisis, but I think you would feel bad leaving MP hanging for so long, so I don't think you'd want to do that either.

The fact that this is an LDR has a big impact. I don't think people who have live-in D/s relationships can quite understand, and I say that as someone who is simultaneously in a live-in relationship and an LDR. It is a fact of life that you are going to feel pressure to focus on the people around you more than the people who are not around you, no matter how important those distant people are to you. I see a lot of people in this thread saying "if you care about him so much, you'll leave your friend behind and focus on him." But you know what? That just isn't the reality of an LDR.

I think you guys will find a balance together just fine. I know it feels awful that you are having to split your attentions like this, but I don't think it's going to be the end of your relationship. Everybody goes through tough times. Hang in there, you two.

 

[lil_slave_rose]

I think you owe it to MP to maintain your relationship with him even as you are helping your friend. And I think MP owes it to you to allow you a little leeway. That is how you balance. You each have to consider the thing that you want to do most, and then give a little over to the other side. I'm sure MP would rather have your attentions on himself, but I also think he cares enough about you to know that you would feel awful abandoning your friend, and I don't think he'd expect you to do that. Similarly, I imagine the thing you would like to do is help the friend you've known for so long who is truly in a time of crisis, but I think you would feel bad leaving MP hanging for so long, so I don't think you'd want to do that either.

The fact that this is an LDR has a big impact. I don't think people who have live-in D/s relationships can quite understand, and I say that as someone who is simultaneously in a live-in relationship and an LDR. It is a fact of life that you are going to feel pressure to focus on the people around you more than the people who are not around you, no matter how important those distant people are to you. I see a lot of people in this thread saying "if you care about him so much, you'll leave your friend behind and focus on him." But you know what? That just isn't the reality of an LDR.

I think you guys will find a balance together just fine. I know it feels awful that you are having to split your attentions like this, but I don't think it's going to be the end of your relationship. Everybody goes through tough times. Hang in there, you two.

thank you for this post Etoile. i was really feeling like people with the 24/7 live in D/s just weren't understanding where i was coming from. obviously if He were here i would not be staying with my friend, but the reality is, He isn't here and i NEED that socialization. He would never ask me to abandon my friend, that was never the issue. the issue was how to split my time so that both of them feel cared for and equal with my time. and this post said exactly what i was feeling. we will make it, we always have and now there are lots of new changes we are facing but we love each other more than life itself so i know we will make it

 

[SweetErika]

Rose and MP, I may not have an LDR, but I definitely understand. I've been the one affected more by not getting as much attention since my husband's been away on business for the last month. (I know, that sounds like a piece of cake to many, but it's a BIG adjustment for a couple who's never been apart for more than a week in 7 or so years. )

Anyway, he's been working well over 100 hours a week, which doesn't leave much time for me/us. We were talking 15-30 mins nightly, but that wasn't sufficient for my depressed self and I worried when he didn't call before midnight, so I told him I needed him to check in earlier in the day, too, if he could. That's what he's doing now - calling and just saying hi, or leaving a quick message when he has a short break. And he tries to get on chat and turn on his webcam for me when he's working or has some time to relax at night (which isn't often, but it's better than nothing).

It's certainly a huge compromise for me, but I understand his limitations right now, and keep focusing on the fact that it'll get better. Of course I can call him if I need to, but I try to save that for semi-emergencies, as I don't want to interrupt his work and add stress to his life. Basically, it's been about finding my minimum needs (which, admittedly, are lower right now because it's a relatively short absence and we can afford to put our relationship in "maintenance" mode), and him doing everything he can to meet or exceed those.

So, if you haven't done so already, I'd suggest setting your past habits/needs aside, and figuring out what your current minimums are, given you current situation and limitations. Then, work hard to exceed those, whether it's with more short calls, thoughtful messages, letters, e-mails, shorter chats, making regular dates, or clearing your schedules for each other for a couple of hours or a day when you can.

In your situation, I'd also honor the need to be together a.s.a.p. by saving every penny possible; every one I saved towards the goal would feel like another piece of meeting that need. I'd write down every expenditure for a month, then take a hard look at that list and categorize everything into wants vs. needs. It's amazing how quickly money can accumulate when things like coffee, junk/convenience food, restaurants, tobacco, alcohol, pop, extra driving, etc., are eliminated or greatly reduced. I mention this because we were able to save A LOT while making very little by doing that kind of stuff, and it taught us that every penny counts.

Best of luck on finding something that works - I'm definitely rooting for you!

 

[MasterPhoenix]

Thank you for your words, Erika....

I just got back last week, so it will be a while before I can go again... HOPEFULLY, I won't have to come back here next time...

I keep a change jar that I use to save up money, just for being able to go to her... I have had everything cut to thte bone for the last year to pay for my three trips...

All will work out as it will...

And like she said, we love each other more than life itself... so it will likely work out for the best...

 

[catalina_francisco]

everything you said has made sense to me and made me think, except where you said that i said i'd choose my friend over him, i said that about my family. that if i were put in the position you were where my dad was sick and he gave me a time limit to be back in, then i probably wouldn't go back. i would not choose a friend over Him. luckily neither one of them would make me choose. not sure if you've read the distance domination support thread yet or not but things are changing...i'm not sure where we're going, but we'll see.....thanks everyone for your support and making me think.....

I have been a bit busy so haven't been able to keep up with everything...I get what you are saying, but in terms of choosing family over the one you are having a M/s relationship, I still see it as the same process. Fortunately I do not ever see F forcing me to make an unreasonable choice, and I know my mother would be likely to want to send me back to him as she is always conscious of looking after relationship's carefully and once married she sees that as being the primary relationship with other family (parents, siblings etc.) as secondary, but if he did want me back before I felt it was appropriate, it would not be easy but I made the commitment and would and have obeyed.

This is part of what I was talking about months ago with realising what it is you are commiting to and that there are going to be moments when it is not going to seem fair, or be easy etc., but it is the choice you make. I read Etoile's post and your response about people living 24/7 together perhaps not understanding and in my instance don't agree as I have done it very long distance before being blessed with being together, and yes it was difficult and caused problems between us which is a big part of why we swept aside all the excuses we had to wait and just made the move. Regardless, while we were on opposite sides of the globe, his needs still came first and foremost and as he is a demanding sod who delights in making life difficult at times, it was not made easy with time to myself etc., room to pursue my own interests and hobbies, choices to spend time with others if he was wanting my time spent online with him at that time....even when I was trying to finalise the sale of my home, pack 20 years of my and my children's lives up, and say goodbye to people as well as finalise all other paperwork, he demanded I be online or available 24/7, often sitting up all night to talk with him while he worked...it was a pain, but it was the choice I had made.

That is part of where I see the difference often with LDR and 24/7 and often get jumped on for saying so....most in LDR's see it as a right they have a choice to do things for themselves, have 'my' time, time to spend with others by their choice, or when convenient do things for their PYL based on their schedule, but claim they are the same as 24/7 under the same roof. It is not the same unless you make a conscious commitment to make it so, and even then, at a distance it is not easy to maintain simply because temptation is always there, there is no-one there demanding your time and obedience 24/7, and it is human nature to sometimes think 'that's not fair'....and it is never the same having someone there watching constantly as opposed to someone asking you online or phone what you have been doing. And yes, I know there are those perfect subs/slaves who say they don't need someone there 24/7 to keep them focused and perfectly obedient, but reality is I have yet to see such pefection outside of porn and fantasy.

Each of us has our own style and guidelines, but your own have closely mirrored our own which is why I spoke about choices and recognising that the commitment you made has taken from you for the most part the freedom to have that right to decide what and when you do things and with whom, and which you have often said is how it is for you. When you asked about how to balance things, though I am far from perfect or expert at it myself, it seems logical to raise the areas you commited to and that you have never wanted it to be about turning it on and off on your whim as opposed to his need/want. I do believe you will both get through this as you do have a strong relationship and love for each other...as always. it is all about communicating both ways, speaking and listening with an open heart. That is not always the easiest thing to do when emotions are involved.

Catalina

 

[Bandit58]

Once Master Gil and I made the decision to move in together, it was 6 weeks before I made it back to Him. I could have done it in 4 but with Christmas and New Year in the middle, and New Zealand shutting down for 2 weeks during that time, it took me longer.

Admittedly I had no job at the time, I was renting, my children were older and not living with me, and I didn't have a lot of stuff to pack up. I ended up with 10 boxes and a big suitcase of clothes to ship over. I sold and gave away the rest.

I have been back to NZ twice since we've been together. Once when my father was ill and again when he died. I was away for 2 weeks each time. We kept in contact with PMs and emails every day, and a couple of times we managed to catch each other on msn. I was told to stay as long as was deemed necessary, but 2 weeks was as long as I could stand to be away from Him and my mother had my brother and his family right there with her so it wasn't like she was on her own.

Things happen sometimes that we wish hadn't, and life throws us a curve ball. Throughout the times we were apart I always knew I was in His heart - didn't matter that we weren't chatting online or the phone. A quick email when I was able to get to a computer - no it wasn't enough, but sometimes that had to suffice until things settled down. He understood that I was busy with my family.....and dealing with the grief of losing my beloved dad. I know He wished He could have come with me

 

[Etoile]

This is part of what I was talking about months ago with realising what it is you are commiting to and that there are going to be moments when it is not going to seem fair, or be easy etc., but it is the choice you make. I read Etoile's post and your response about people living 24/7 together perhaps not understanding and in my instance don't agree as I have done it very long distance before being blessed with being together, and yes it was difficult and caused problems between us which is a big part of why we swept aside all the excuses we had to wait and just made the move. Regardless, while we were on opposite sides of the globe, his needs still came first and foremost and as he is a demanding sod who delights in making life difficult at times, it was not made easy with time to myself etc., room to pursue my own interests and hobbies, choices to spend time with others if he was wanting my time spent online with him at that time....even when I was trying to finalise the sale of my home, pack 20 years of my and my children's lives up, and say goodbye to people as well as finalise all other paperwork, he demanded I be online or available 24/7, often sitting up all night to talk with him while he worked...it was a pain, but it was the choice I had made.

That is part of where I see the difference often with LDR and 24/7 and often get jumped on for saying so....most in LDR's see it as a right they have a choice to do things for themselves, have 'my' time, time to spend with others by their choice, or when convenient do things for their PYL based on their schedule, but claim they are the same as 24/7 under the same roof. It is not the same unless you make a conscious commitment to make it so, and even then, at a distance it is not easy to maintain simply because temptation is always there, there is no-one there demanding your time and obedience 24/7, and it is human nature to sometimes think 'that's not fair'....and it is never the same having someone there watching constantly as opposed to someone asking you online or phone what you have been doing. And yes, I know there are those perfect subs/slaves who say they don't need someone there 24/7 to keep them focused and perfectly obedient, but reality is I have yet to see such pefection outside of porn and fantasy.

You know, for somebody who claims that it's okay for everybody's relationships to be different, you come across VERY preachy in this post. We have all heard the story of how once you met him in person you couldn't bear to be apart, you packed up your whole life and moved halfway around the world. We know the story already. And you know what? I am thrilled that you were able to do that. But not everybody can, and yet you keep saying "well if you were REALLY M/s you'd put him first, etc." This is what I was talking about a few months back when I said you frequently come across as subbier than thou. Not everybody lives in your world and yet you are constantly saying "well this is how WE do it" as if you are the ideal model of a BDSM couple.

As for your comments about LDR vs live-in 24/7, I am not even going to dignify those with an answer/explanation. It's just more of the same "well WE live 24/7, and YOU don't know what it's like, YOU haven't made the 125% commitment that WE have." Again, just more of the same subbier than thou stuff.

Rose, sorry for putting this in your thread.

 

[MasterPhoenix]

thank you for this post Etoile. i was really feeling like people with the 24/7 live in D/s just weren't understanding where i was coming from. obviously if He were here i would not be staying with my friend, but the reality is, He isn't here and i NEED that socialization. He would never ask me to abandon my friend, that was never the issue. the issue was how to split my time so that both of them feel cared for and equal with my time. and this post said exactly what i was feeling. we will make it, we always have and now there are lots of new changes we are facing but we love each other more than life itself so i know we will make it

Any crisis we have faced, we have come back the stronger becuase of it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You know, for somebody who claims that it's okay for everybody's relationships to be different, you come across VERY preachy in this post. We have all heard the story of how once you met him in person you couldn't bear to be apart, you packed up your whole life and moved halfway around the world. We know the story already. And you know what? I am thrilled that you were able to do that. But not everybody can, and yet you keep saying "well if you were REALLY M/s you'd put him first, etc." This is what I was talking about a few months back when I said you frequently come across as subbier than thou. Not everybody lives in your world and yet you are constantly saying "well this is how WE do it" as if you are the ideal model of a BDSM couple.

As for your comments about LDR vs live-in 24/7, I am not even going to dignify those with an answer/explanation. It's just more of the same "well WE live 24/7, and YOU don't know what it's like, YOU haven't made the 125% commitment that WE have." Again, just more of the same subbier than thou stuff.

Rose, sorry for putting this in your thread.

Etoile, you read it the way you want and I never understand why you see speaking from personal experience when asked as being subbier than thou unless it touches something in you which you feel, wish, or know could be different. I have a real relationship, we work hard to maintain it, I never paint it as perfect and wonderful every moment, I highlight that it has hiccoughs and difficult days just like everyone else, it started online and LDR, moved to real time 24/7 under the same roof and has spatterings like in the coming week where it becomes once again a distance thing due to his being away on business...and yes, I did move here permanently to be with him 6 months after we met and married and it was far too long...similar to what Bandit58 said, it was unbearable to be apart and for me if it hadn't been, then I would have thought I had made a huge mistake in choosing to commit to him.....and for all of that I do not apologise, nor will I invalidate my own experiences. If you want to see that all round experience of a number of situations as preachy as opposed to how I see it as simple experience that sometimes can help others who ask for thoughts to get through things I myself have experienced and still do, so be it....if it hadn't been for others sharing their honest thoughts and experiences with me, and my being able to listen openly, I would not be living my dream now, but definately would be sitting complaining about how dissatisfied I was with my situation just as I was.

As to putting him first, yes I do as that is what we agreed to and I did so knowingly so don't back down the moment it gets difficult or hard, though I might complain or point out how I am feeling if in such a mood, sometimes I even get highly moody, but I do what I am asked to. For us putting him first means just that, not after I have fulfilled all my personal desires and wants to go taking photos all day and half the night (wow, that would be a dream), catch up with friends and relatives, spend the day on the couch with a good book etc...it means if he wants or needs something it comes before anything I might want and need, as do my usual expected duties because that is just what we see it as meaning when we say his needs must come first and be met before mine or anyone elses...if we didn't do it that way I would basically IMO be living the choice filled vanilla lifestyle I had before and chose to leave behind forever. That to me is not preachy, just reality. As difficult as it is sometimes to change your life around, it is a lot easier to make excuses why you can't and resent those who do, or procrastinate forever and never get to live your dream...far too many people in this world, myself inculded, waste precious time doing other than they want or need simply because they tell themselves they can't out of fear of change, often unrecognised as such and promoted as simply impossible....then there are those people who have proven nothing is impossible if you want it enough to do your best to make it happen...those are the people I look to for inspiration when I am having difficulty getting over a hurdle, not those who give up and hope it works itself out whenever, if ever.

Catalina

 

[A Desert Rose]

... there are those people who have proven nothing is impossible if you want it enough to do your best to make it happen...those are the people I look to for inspiration when I am having difficulty getting over a hurdle, not those who give up and hope it works itself out whenever, if ever.

Catalina

At the risk of sounding preachy myself, I have to agree with this. You make your dreams a reality. You make your life happy or not. You are in charge of what you do with what happens to you. A lot of times you have no control over what happens or has happened to you, but you do have control on how and what you do after.

If you want something bad enough, you make it happen. It might take a month, it might take a year, or 5 years. But if you want it, and want it bad enough, you make it happen. You see the goal - whatever that goal may be, whether it's living with the one you love or being rid of a brain tumor - and move to it. And keep moving to it, daily. You reaffrim to yourself everyday that "this is where I'm going" ... "this is how it will be for me and for the ones I love"...

It's just another way of saying "keep your eyes on the prize."


I'll never make it as a tv-evangelist, will I?

 

[MasterPhoenix]

At the risk of sounding preachy myself, I have to agree with this. You make your dreams a reality. You make your life happy or not. You are in charge of what you do with what happens to you. A lot of times you have no control over what happens or has happened to you, but you do have control on how and what you do after.

If you want something bad enough, you make it happen. It might take a month, it might take a year, or 5 years. But if you want it, and want it bad enough, you make it happen. You see the goal - whatever that goal may be, whether it's living with the one you love or being rid of a brain tumor - and move to it. And keep moving to it, daily. You reaffrim to yourself everyday that "this is where I'm going" ... "this is how it will be for me and for the ones I love"...

It's just another way of saying "keep your eyes on the prize."


I'll never make it as a tv-evangelist, will I?

That is a LOVELY post....

If you don't mind, I would like to use that as my sig for a bit....

 

[A Desert Rose]

That is a LOVELY post....

If you don't mind, I would like to use that as my sig for a bit....

What? you gonna advertise to the whole world that I'm not tv-evangelist material??? LOL


Be my guest... seriously. ;-)

 

[MasterPhoenix]

What? you gonna advertise to the whole world that I'm not tv-evangelist material??? LOL


Be my guest... seriously. ;-)

No, not that part....

But well, take a look at my sig line.... And that is what we are working towards.... Clearing the shit, getting the money together, and all that fun stuff...

There is NOTHING I would love more than to be able to pack up and go tomorrow... Which I basically can't due to finances, and such... and she has things to get together as well...

BUT, if she were to call me and say, "Daddy, I need you here..." You can be damn sure that I would find a way to be there as soon as humanly possible... no matter what I had to do....

 

[A Desert Rose]

No, not that part....

But well, take a look at my sig line.... And that is what we are working towards.... Clearing the shit, getting the money together, and all that fun stuff...

There is NOTHING I would love more than to be able to pack up and go tomorrow... Which I basically can't due to finances, and such... and she has things to get together as well...

BUT, if she were to call me and say, "Daddy, I need you here..." You can be damn sure that I would find a way to be there as soon as humanly possible... no matter what I had to do....

I was teasin' about the evangelist thingy... LOL

I'm glad I said something that, in some way, you found inspiring.

If you believe it will happen, it will. If you believe you can do it, you can. But remember, money is an illusion. ;-D (although most of my medical bill collectors don't yet see it this way, I'm working to make them understand it my way. aaaahahahahahaha) You have to see yourself doing it. (Whatever IT is.) And then move to that vision daily... When I decided 20 years ago, to make a huge move to Las Vegas from Wyoming, it took me over a year to afford that move but I packed and I packed every single day. I lived in a house full of boxes but they were ready for me when I was ready to move. And they were a daily reminder that I was moving... I would be in Las Vegas.

And eureka!!! Here I am!!!

Right now, I have a sign on my bathroom mirror... it says "Today Roxanne, you have a clear head." I repeat that little mantra every single morning.
(edited to add) So far it's not happened, but I'm not dead yet so there's still a prize to be had for me. ;-D

 

[Netzach]

You know, for somebody who claims that it's okay for everybody's relationships to be different, you come across VERY preachy in this post. We have all heard the story of how once you met him in person you couldn't bear to be apart, you packed up your whole life and moved halfway around the world. We know the story already. And you know what? I am thrilled that you were able to do that. But not everybody can, and yet you keep saying "well if you were REALLY M/s you'd put him first, etc." This is what I was talking about a few months back when I said you frequently come across as subbier than thou. Not everybody lives in your world and yet you are constantly saying "well this is how WE do it" as if you are the ideal model of a BDSM couple.

As for your comments about LDR vs live-in 24/7, I am not even going to dignify those with an answer/explanation. It's just more of the same "well WE live 24/7, and YOU don't know what it's like, YOU haven't made the 125% commitment that WE have." Again, just more of the same subbier than thou stuff.

Rose, sorry for putting this in your thread.

Additionally, some of us M's WOULD not demand that our long distance SO's stay up all night to IM with us. We might not have THAT much use for slaves who aren't there. I don't WANT H to be available to me at the snap of my fingers at any moment - that is NOT my ideal for my property - it's a little too close and I find that humans being humans eventually the notion that intimacy creates a kind of claim creeps in. Staying up all night to talk with me is not an expectation it's a goody fucking gumdrops gee whiz Mistress PRIVILEGE.

My slave is also much more of use to me if I let him stay in DC write the book he's close to finishing and not go bankrupt by pulling up stakes the day after his daugter's graduation to find work closer to me. Fiscal considerations are human capital considerations in this case.

I can't help but wonder if my ownership is more closely aligned with the Webster's definition of SLAVERY seeing as human capital/earning/WORK considerations come before bringing my breakfast and sex. Being useful to me is priority over being right here with me.

I'm just,you know, speaking from my experience and my outlook.

 

[HottieMama]

MP and lsr, i wish you the best. i really have no experience or advice to share but know that you are both in my thoughts.

A Desert Rose...Add me as another thank you for your post. I'm in a different situation, but that's exactly what i needed to "hear" today.

 

[Etoile]

...unless it touches something in you which you feel, wish, or know could be different. I have a real relationship, we work hard to maintain it...

Don't presume you know how I feel, sweetie dahling. As for the second line - wow, that's really hitting below the belt. Fortunately I'm not wearing any boots to be quaking in.

 

[Netzach]

For us putting him first means just that, not after I have fulfilled all my personal desires and wants to go taking photos all day and half the night (wow, that would be a dream), catch up with friends and relatives, spend the day on the couch with a good book etc...it means if he wants or needs something it comes before anything I might want and need, as do my usual expected duties because that is just what we see it as meaning when we say his needs must come first and be met before mine or anyone elses...if we didn't do it that way I would basically IMO be living the choice filled vanilla lifestyle I had before and chose to leave behind forever. Catalina

Wow, for someone who gets to live a "choice based reality" I don't get to do any of those things. I must have really fucked up my vanilla years. I think most people who choose to live in reality don't get to do what they want just because it pleases them to do so. I doubt that you had ONLY yourself to answer to in your vanilla years, as you paint it, in fact. You probably had so many people competing for your attention time and energy that having ONE person to give it to seems ideal.

The only big difference cat, is that you picked someone whose decisions about your time were going to supercede your own - most of us have jobs,families, and obligations that come along to take that role- you decided for better or for worse to put yours second for a specific other person. And subsequently the needs of those who might depend on you, whether that's fair of them or not.

A lot of people would never do that.

It doesn't make them worse than you any more than it makes them better than you.

It could be argued that changing your loyalties completely for someone you met 6 weeks prior isn't exactly the most responsible or ethical choice. Feel free to tell those people saying that to shove it - but cut the sense that LD couples are making inferior choices, or acting like you deserve the "true to myself" medal and that if they only cared enough they too would pitch everything and do what they want and throw themselves into live-in D/s. A lot of M/s relationships are NOT SUITED to being live-in at all.

- the notion that if you don't have someone to scehdule your life away it's a bliss filled bonbon eating session is really amazing.

No one's suggesting you present your reality differently, or minimize how thrilled you are- but you are certainly operating from a perspective that those who might be in a superficially similar situation to you who DON'T do exactly what you did are probably doing it wrong. That is, in a word, myopic. And totally insulting to other people's choices.

 

[brioche]

Wow, for someone who gets to live a "choice based reality" I don't get to do any of those things. I must have really fucked up my vanilla years. I think most people who choose to live in reality don't get to do what they want just because it pleases them to do so. I doubt that you had ONLY yourself to answer to in your vanilla years, as you paint it, in fact. You probably had so many people competing for your attention time and energy that having ONE person to give it to seems ideal.

The only big difference cat, is that you picked someone whose decisions about your time were going to supercede your own - most of us have jobs,families, and obligations that come along to take that role- you decided for better or for worse to put yours second for a specific other person. And subsequently the needs of those who might depend on you, whether that's fair of them or not.

A lot of people would never do that.

It doesn't make them worse than you any more than it makes them better than you.

It could be argued that changing your loyalties completely for someone you met 6 weeks prior isn't exactly the most responsible or ethical choice. Feel free to tell those people saying that to shove it - but cut the sense that LD couples are making inferior choices, or acting like you deserve the "true to myself" medal and that if they only cared enough they too would pitch everything and do what they want and throw themselves into live-in D/s. A lot of M/s relationships are NOT SUITED to being live-in at all.

- the notion that if you don't have someone to scehdule your life away it's a bliss filled bonbon eating session is really amazing.

No one's suggesting you present your reality differently, or minimize how thrilled you are- but you are certainly operating from a perspective that those who might be in a superficially similar situation to you who DON'T do exactly what you did are probably doing it wrong. That is, in a word, myopic. And totally insulting to other people's choices.

Well I for one thank you. You put my feelings upon reading that post into words. And from someone who is resding mostly in the vanilla world right now, I assure you I don't have time to go swanning around doing what I like. Pesky things like employment and physiotherapy so I won't become a cripple keep getting in the way. And one of the books I bought to "curl up with" is "Living well with arthritis: a sourcebook for understanding and managing your arthritis," which, while helpful, is not my favourite leisure subject.

But I really posted to warn you, rose. While there is nothing innately wrong with going off your meds with your doctor's consent and supervision, it is not a good idea to invest so much of your resources into an emotionally draining relationship so soon after. I speak from experience on both counts.

It also sounds like you are struggling with the depression and you may need to consider going back on the medication. Perhaps I am misreading things, but that certainly seems to be the impression I have from your posts. If oyu wish to talk to someone with a fair bit of experience on both sides of the fence feel free to PM me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Wow, for someone who gets to live a "choice based reality" I don't get to do any of those things. I must have really fucked up my vanilla years. I think most people who choose to live in reality don't get to do what they want just because it pleases them to do so. I doubt that you had ONLY yourself to answer to in your vanilla years, as you paint it, in fact. You probably had so many people competing for your attention time and energy that having ONE person to give it to seems ideal.

The only big difference cat, is that you picked someone whose decisions about your time were going to supercede your own - most of us have jobs,families, and obligations that come along to take that role- you decided for better or for worse to put yours second for a specific other person. And subsequently the needs of those who might depend on you, whether that's fair of them or not.

A lot of people would never do that.

It doesn't make them worse than you any more than it makes them better than you.

It could be argued that changing your loyalties completely for someone you met 6 weeks prior isn't exactly the most responsible or ethical choice. Feel free to tell those people saying that to shove it - but cut the sense that LD couples are making inferior choices, or acting like you deserve the "true to myself" medal and that if they only cared enough they too would pitch everything and do what they want and throw themselves into live-in D/s. A lot of M/s relationships are NOT SUITED to being live-in at all.

- the notion that if you don't have someone to scehdule your life away it's a bliss filled bonbon eating session is really amazing.

No one's suggesting you present your reality differently, or minimize how thrilled you are- but you are certainly operating from a perspective that those who might be in a superficially similar situation to you who DON'T do exactly what you did are probably doing it wrong. That is, in a word, myopic. And totally insulting to other people's choices.

I don't have the energy to go through this point by point, suffice to say I think a lot of it is being read in a way different to what I have stated. For one thing, I am still trying to work out the 6 week thing. As to saying my choice was better or worse, I haven't done that and I don't tell anyone in a LDR they should do the same....what I do say though is when someone LD who has already committed to in the future to be live in, and they speak about the frustrations and difficulty with making that a reality and ask advice, that sometimes, often in fact, it is more a matter of putting it off for a variety of reasons than it not being possible though it may very well seem unrealistic and possible at the time as I well know from personal experience. For others it is truly impossible. If someone chooses to be LDR I have no problem with them doing so because that is obviously what they want and what works for them, just as it worked for me to by choice remain single and not living with someone for 16 years after divorce....if a couple (as in this thread) or person says they do not want that, are having a problem and ask for advice, I don't see why it causes so much angst among people who feel I should not speak of my personal experience or thoughts based on being at different times in both situations and dealing with many of the same issues (as opposed to giving advice based on no actual experience), especially the question of how to cope, how to get from where you are to where you want to be, and especially when it does not upset those I am speaking to who asked advice here on a public forum and discussed their thoughts and feelings on it. What I have learned is that when you are in younger years you often put off a good many things for what seem very good reasons at the time, but once you have progressed to mid 40's and upward, it begins to appear in a different light and you realise most of the things you stressed about, were tormented by, and struggled to cope with really were not as you perceived them to be at that time...I am finding many women in my age group and older have similar views and thoughts on this and I so remember being told it by older women when I was in my 20's-30's and thinking they just didn't understand....lol, strange how clear some of those things are now.

And yes, I did pick someone whose decisions would supercede mine, but not by accident or circumstance but a decision I made before looking for him, so shoot me for knowing what I wanted and having the sense to go after it instead of wasting another 20 years hoping happiness would fall in my lap. I don't paint a picture of perfection, just the reality of any relationship which is up some days, down others. I don't say it works for everyone because it doesn't always just as vanilla doesn't always, wide age gaps don't always, close ages don't always, different cultures and backgrounds don't always work simply because people are different. Nor do I ever ask for a medal and such statements show how little you know me or my personality, but like some others feel you are the expert in my life. I have a lot of respect for you Netzach, and Etoile, but you both really don't know me if you think I set myself up as some great authority, or think I am always doing things the right way, or that I will sit back down and be a quiet little girl because someone says I have no right to speak of my reality and experience. This restrictive culture which raises its head from time to time is why I and some others do not discuss the more serious issues of living a D/s lifestyle on Lit and save it for a place where it is treated respectfully and experiences are shared out of a genuine desire to help and support others.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Don't presume you know how I feel, sweetie dahling. As for the second line - wow, that's really hitting below the belt. Fortunately I'm not wearing any boots to be quaking in.

Ditto Etoile, if you remember correctly this whole discussion we are having resulted from you saying exactly what you felt and believed I was thinking and saying and it is not the first time, nor is it correct. You are entitled to your opinion, and guess what, so am I.

Catalina