How many threads do you take at once?

[Se7en_]

I'm alright. Annoyed at missing another day of work.

And if it weren't personally offensive due to a past event. I'd think good boy was fine.

I however do associate good girl, and many people associate good girl, with a number of women. Or Ships. Or any number of things.

I associate good boy, with puppy, and a dumb puppy at that. Or a really stupid dog.

Ah too bad, why are you missing work though? Are you ill man?

Re: good girl

the fact that this phrase is acceptable and enjoyed and the phrase 'good boy' is not is because its been decided that being condescending to women is perfectly ok.

I have to disagree with you on this one, very much so actually. I think 'good girl' is never an insult. It's always a compliment and a term of endearment in my book, never ever condescension or insulting. On the other hand, 'good boy', for me at least, doesn't sound like a compliment. This is probably because guys like to be big and they try to act older than they actually are, so 'good boy' is not seen as a compliment because of the age thing. Girls, on the other hand, like to look and feel young, and so saying 'good girl' is seen as a compliment that has nothing to do with dominance and submission, but it works well in the case of a D/s relationship/story as well.

I use to hate being told, " Good girl" for that very reason. Another good example of a double standard, imo. I usually see either of those two words as praise and depending on the situation. In other words, if the male or female in question is a sub, then, words of praise, unless the Dominant is being condescending. I've known a few like that. Idiots, those. I very, very rarely use those words myself except with my dogs. BUT when I do use them in relation to people, I never think of dogs. Just praise.

I don't think there is a double standard here, if the one calling you or any other girl/woman considers 'good girl' as a compliment or a term of endearment then its not a double standard. Its maybe like beautiful and handsome, they each work for a gender. Same thing it would be 'good man' and 'good girl'. That's my two cents at least

 

[Se7en_]

Ehh, I already voted. I used to write a lot. Not too much anymore. The End.

Oh too bad, well good luck on getting back on the writer's wagon then, and thanks for voting

 

[DarkWarrioress]

.....I don't think there is a double standard here, if the one calling you or any other girl/woman considers 'good girl' as a compliment or a term of endearment then its not a double standard. Its maybe like beautiful and handsome, they each work for a gender. Same thing it would be 'good man' and 'good girl'. That's my two cents at least

The double standard I meant, Se7en and my apologies for not making myself more eloquent, is that I have found men don't mind using the phrase, "Good girl" but do not usually like the opposite, "Good boy" applied to them. They do see it as demeaning, yet, they're quite willing to use, "good girl" on a female and think nothing of it and seem rather shocked when learning there are females who find such as demeaning. One would think they understand perfectly why (damn it I hate auto correct) females find it demeaning since they do. If they do.

Then why not, 'good man' and 'good woman'? Why is it, 'good girl' still?

 

[Mav Unlimited]

The double standard I meant, Se7en and my apologies for not making myself more eloquent, is that I have found men don't mind using the phrase, "Good girl" but do not usually like the opposite, "Good boy" applied to them. They do see it as demeaning, yet, they're quite willing to use, "good girl" on a female and think nothing of it and seem rather shocked when learning there are females who find such as demeaning. One would think they understand perfectly while females find it demeaning since they do. If they do.

Then why not, 'good man' and 'good woman'? Why is it, 'good girl' still?

I'll tell you why. C'mere my good woman.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

The double standard I meant, Se7en and my apologies for not making myself more eloquent, is that I have found men don't mind using the phrase, "Good girl" but do not usually like the opposite, "Good boy" applied to them. They do see it as demeaning, yet, they're quite willing to use, "good girl" on a female and think nothing of it and seem rather shocked when learning there are females who find such as demeaning. One would think they understand perfectly why (damn it I hate auto correct) females find it demeaning since they do. If they do.

Then why not, 'good man' and 'good woman'? Why is it, 'good girl' still?

Beat me to it, DW.
The condescension is inherent in the phrasing. I am not OK with being considered a girl by most people.
The language it acceptable because US culture doesn't see women at the same level as it sees men. We are less than you. Its not your fault that you can't see this. Its ingrained in us so deeply that it becomes almost invisible. More, its painful to actually recognize it.
(and, for the record, 'intent' does not make it OK. Just like referring to a black person as 'boy' is absolutely not OK regardless of what you meant by it)

BTW, its this same attitude that says rape humor is A-OK.

 

[Se7en_]

The double standard I meant, Se7en and my apologies for not making myself more eloquent, is that I have found men don't mind using the phrase, "Good girl" but do not usually like the opposite, "Good boy" applied to them. They do see it as demeaning, yet, they're quite willing to use, "good girl" on a female and think nothing of it and seem rather shocked when learning there are females who find such as demeaning. One would think they understand perfectly why (damn it I hate auto correct) females find it demeaning since they do. If they do.

Then why not, 'good man' and 'good woman'? Why is it, 'good girl' still?

Well that makes more sense, but again I reiterate, girl because females like to look and feel young and being called girl maybe helps in that regard?

I don't agree that people who say 'good girl' think its demeaning, maybe some of them do, just like some mean 'good boy' as demeaning. For me I think 'good girl' is a very nice thing to say. If the guy and the girl both agree that its a term of endearment then we can't really disagree.

Also, I think the words 'guys and girls' are used to refer to young adult males and young adult females usually, not 'boys and girls' even girls refer to themselves as 'girls' not 'women' even if they are in their late twenties, while guys don't refer to themselves as 'boys'. Its a matter of males trying to act and look older than they actually are, while girls try to look and feel young.

Again, maybe I am wrong, but when I hear the word 'woman', I think of a lady that has passed a certain age, definitely not a bad thing, age advances whether we like it or not so using the word 'girl' is no longer appropriate, so maybe girls like to stretch the age to which they are considered young? Again I probably have no clue and maybe sound like an idiot, but those are just observations, maybe all of them are wrong, and if so I apologize if I offended anyone and I stand corrected

Beat me to it, DW.
The condescension is inherent in the phrasing. I am not OK with being considered a girl by most people.
The language it acceptable because US culture doesn't see women at the same level as it sees men. We are less than you. Its not your fault that you can't see this. Its ingrained in us so deeply that it becomes almost invisible. More, its painful to actually recognize it.
(and, for the record, 'intent' does not make it OK. Just like referring to a black person as 'boy' is absolutely not OK regardless of what you meant by it)

BTW, its this same attitude that says rape humor is A-OK.

If you are not ok by being refered to as a girl then its a different story, I am saying that some girls, no idea about the percentage like being referred to as 'girls' as opposed to 'women'. In that case when someone calls you 'good girl' and he knows you don't like it, then its definitely an insult in that case. If he doesn't know then maybe he thinks you like it in which case he didn't mean it as an insult.

I am not from the US btw, those are just observations based on movies, TV shows and the internet

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Well that makes more sense, but again I reiterate, girl because females like to look and feel young and being called girl maybe helps in that regard?

Thank you for telling us what women like.

I don't agree that people who say 'good girl' think its demeaning, maybe some of them do, just like some mean 'good boy' as demeaning. For me I think 'good girl' is a very nice thing to say. If the guy and the girl both agree that its a term of endearment then we can't really disagree.

The fact that they don't REALIZE it is demeaning doesn't mean it isn't. And no one is talking about names we agree with our partners on. The issue is with general usage.

Also, I think the words 'guys and girls' are used to refer to young adult males and young adult females usually, not 'boys and girls' even girls refer to themselves as 'girls' not 'women' even if they are in their late twenties, while guys don't refer to themselves as 'boys'. Its a matter of males trying to act and look older than they actually are, while girls try to look and feel young.

Again, my point in all this has been that the language is the issue, and its something most of us (including myself) are guilty of. THAT is how deep the issue goes.

Again, maybe I am wrong, but when I hear the word 'woman', I think of a lady that has passed a certain age, definitely not a bad thing, age advances whether we like it or not so using the word 'girl' is no longer appropriate, so maybe girls like to stretch the age to which they are considered young? Again I probably have no clue and maybe sound like an idiot, but those are just observations, maybe all of them are wrong, and if so I apologize if I offended anyone and I stand corrected

You are really just proving my point here.

If you are not ok by being refered to as a girl then its a different story, I am saying that some girls, no idea about the percentage like being referred to as 'girls' as opposed to 'women'. In that case when someone calls you 'good girl' and he knows you don't like it, then its definitely an insult in that case. If he doesn't know then maybe he thinks you like it in which case he didn't mean it as an insult.

I am not from the US btw, those are just observations based on movies, TV shows and the internet

But your assumption is (as you already said) that I probably am ok with being referred to as a child.
BTW, while I specify the US because thats the only country I myself can speak on, I know no end of women across the globe who feel the same.

 

[Se7en_]

Thank you for telling us what women like.



The fact that they don't REALIZE it is demeaning doesn't mean it isn't. And no one is talking about names we agree with our partners on. The issue is with general usage.



Again, my point in all this has been that the language is the issue, and its something most of us (including myself) are guilty of. THAT is how deep the issue goes.




You are really just proving my point here.




But your assumption is (as you already said) that I probably am ok with being referred to as a child.
BTW, while I specify the US because thats the only country I myself can speak on, I know no end of women across the globe who feel the same.

Hey, we're just talking, I am not trying to prove anything to anyone

Actually neither of us can prove anything unless we do a nation-wide poll to see how many females think the phrase 'good girl' is demeaning, and I am sure that's not going to happen, so let's just say that we agree to disagree and see what else can be said about the topic.

For the record, I still think it's not demeaning, on the contrary...

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Hey, we're just talking, I am not trying to prove anything to anyone

Actually neither of us can prove anything unless we do a nation-wide poll to see how many females think the phrase 'good girl' is demeaning, and I am sure that's not going to happen, so let's just say that we agree to disagree and see what else can be said about the topic.

For the record, I still think it's not demeaning, on the contrary...

And there you go missing my point entirely.

 

[chronicle_tenko]

Hey, we're just talking, I am not trying to prove anything to anyone

Actually neither of us can prove anything unless we do a nation-wide poll to see how many females think the phrase 'good girl' is demeaning, and I am sure that's not going to happen, so let's just say that we agree to disagree and see what else can be said about the topic.

For the record, I still think it's not demeaning, on the contrary...

Oh please stop while you're ahead. You only prove her point further. And you don't realise it. She isn't mad at you, It's not the phrase. It's not intent. It is the actual Worldwide, stigma, and quiet thought of the double standard it implies in language and behaviour.

Not yours personally, or between people, But Between society, and language and long standing use.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Oh please stop while you're ahead. You only prove her point further. And you don't realise it. She isn't mad at you, It's not the phrase. It's not intent. It is the actual Worldwide, stigma, and quiet thought of the double standard it implies in language and behaviour.

Not yours personally, or between people, But Between society, and language and long standing use.

No one wants to actually listen because it requires them to question everything and thats painful and scary, especially when the implication is that they've been doing the wrong thing for many many years (intentionally or not) and that they now have to change that behavior.
It wasn't particularly comfortable for me either.

 

[Seranova]

There are certain words or phrases that there is no acceptable usage, such as slurs.

But with phrases like good girl/boy? Intent is EVERYTHING. The problem only lies when two people do not understand each other with these types of phrases, or one already has previous dispositions against them.

Face it, there's nothing actually demeaning about being called good and young. It's all the intent we perceive and (sometimes incorrectly) understand.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

There are certain words or phrases that there is no acceptable usage, such as slurs.

But with phrases like good girl/boy? Intent is EVERYTHING. The problem only lies when two people do not understand each other with these types of phrases, or one already has previous dispositions against them.

Face it, there's nothing actually demeaning about being called good and young. It's all the intent we perceive and (sometimes incorrectly) understand.

Intent has NOTHING to do with it. The very fact that it is considered OK to default to this language is the issue.
Intent may determine whether or not you are an asshole, but it has nothing to do with whether or not the language is demeaning.

 

[Se7en_]

Oh please stop while you're ahead. You only prove her point further. And you don't realise it. She isn't mad at you, It's not the phrase. It's not intent. It is the actual Worldwide, stigma, and quiet thought of the double standard it implies in language and behaviour.

Not yours personally, or between people, But Between society, and language and long standing use.

I am well aware of that, but its the easiest way to end a debate that isn't going anywhere, and I don't care who proves his/her point as I never intended for this to be a debate and when it became a debate, I bailed out as I prefer discussion to debate

However, you say it's a worldwide stigma, what does that make it if its acceptable worldwide? I am sure you will say other wrong things are acceptable worldwide, that still doesn't make them right either.

I guess the best way is just to agree with your partner on whether something is acceptable or not, the rest of the world can do whatever they want.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

I'll come back to the 'boy' example. You would never say it was OK to refer to a black person as 'boy', regardless of intent, would you? Because the term is INHERENTLY demeaning in this society. Referring to a woman as a 'girl', with whom you do not have an intimate relationship where referring to her as 'girl' has been determined to be acceptable, is EXACTLY the same thing.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

ah, yes. 'discussion', wherein two people talk about a thing while ignoring each other.

Thats just a semantic way of saying you don't feel like actually communicating and listening.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

and I'll end with this...your "it happens everywhere so maybe its ok" is a statement stemming from privilege and shows exactly no understanding of the state of women in the world.

 

[Se7en_]

There are certain words or phrases that there is no acceptable usage, such as slurs.

But with phrases like good girl/boy? Intent is EVERYTHING. The problem only lies when two people do not understand each other with these types of phrases, or one already has previous dispositions against them.

Face it, there's nothing actually demeaning about being called good and young. It's all the intent we perceive and (sometimes incorrectly) understand.

That's a pretty good point.

Intent has NOTHING to do with it. The very fact that it is considered OK to default to this language is the issue.
Intent may determine whether or not you are an asshole, but it has nothing to do with whether or not the language is demeaning.

Also a good point, but if the majority thinks it's ok then it automatically becomes the default just because the majority prefer that way. The minority will have to express their opinion and the majority should respect that and refrain from using the default with them.

Like for example, slut, some actually like being openly called that, and that's a small minority probably, that's why you don't see people going around using that word because they expect that 99% of the people will not take it well. In the case of 'girl', people think 70 to maybe 90%? will take it well and thus use it.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

That's a pretty good point.



Also a good point, but if the majority thinks it's ok then it automatically becomes the default just because the majority prefer that way. The minority will have to express their opinion and the majority should respect that and refrain from using the default with them.

Like for example, slut, some actually like being openly called that, and that's a small minority probably, that's why you don't see people going around using that word because they expect that 99% of the people will not take it well. In the case of 'girl', people think 70 to maybe 90%? will take it well and thus use it.

wow, thats really incredible. Since everyone does it, its ok.
More, it continues to miss the point that, REGARDLESS of how people react to it, the language is demeaning. The fact that you can get away with it without upsetting someone is beside the point.

 

[Seranova]

Again, nothing inherently wrong with being referred to as good and young.

So yes, intent is everything.

This is one of those things that it only truly matters to the individuals involved, the context used, and the intent behind it. I forget the actual number, but isn't it something like 75% of all language is tone, context, and body language? Again, there are slurs that transcend all intent, but as a general rule, the context and intent take presedence.

And acceptable society usage? I have two words. Fuck society. Society is a collection of idiots making "acceptable" rules so they can feel good about themselves. Society frowns on true BDSM relationships (with the exception of that Twighlight fanfic bondage porn book that has become a national best seller). Society is all kinds of fucked.

 

[Se7en_]

I'll come back to the 'boy' example. You would never say it was OK to refer to a black person as 'boy', regardless of intent, would you? Because the term is INHERENTLY demeaning in this society. Referring to a woman as a 'girl', with whom you do not have an intimate relationship where referring to her as 'girl' has been determined to be acceptable, is EXACTLY the same thing.

I don't know anything about what 'boy' means to black people so can't comment on it. What does it mean though? Just for the sake of curiosity?

ah, yes. 'discussion', wherein two people talk about a thing while ignoring each other.

Thats just a semantic way of saying you don't feel like actually communicating and listening.

I think a 'discussion' is conversation where people with differing views towards something exchange opinions and facts, if available, to reach a solution, and it stops being a discussion when someone adds emotions to the mix. Again, I am not that experienced and so I might have things mixed up. In which case, no offense meant and my apologies in advance if I accidentally offend anyone.

and I'll end with this...your "it happens everywhere so maybe its ok" is a statement stemming from privilege and shows exactly no understanding of the state of women in the world.

I won't claim I understand the state of women in the world, so can't comment either.

wow, thats really incredible. Since everyone does it, its ok.
More, it continues to miss the point that, REGARDLESS of how people react to it, the language is demeaning. The fact that you can get away with it without upsetting someone is beside the point.

Its not a fact that its demeaning, that's your opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has to respect each others opinions, that's what I think.

As to everyone does it, again, that's because its what's accepted by the majority, doesn't make it right, it makes it logical to use it because its more likely to be accepted.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

head-desk
Why do I even bother some days...

 

[Seranova]

head-desk
Why do I even bother some days...

Hehe.

You're discussing American societal views with one person not from America and not understanding of the prejudices in general, and another who couldn't give two shits less about societal prejudices and acceptable rules.

 

[Vail_Indigo]

Hehe.

You're discussing American societal views with one person not from America and not understanding of the prejudices in general, and another who couldn't give two shits less about societal prejudices and acceptable rules.

1. the things I'm discussing happen everywhere
2. Its easy to not care about societal prejudices when you are on the 'right' end of them. How convenient and pleasant for you.

 

[Mav Unlimited]

head-desk
Why do I even bother some days...

*offers her a cookie*

Because it is fun for us to read?