How to address a Female to male trans person?

[NightL]

I'm still curious as to how gender came into the interaction and for the manner in which it caused upset. So the OP has an interaction (whatever that is) with someone they clearly have never met before and know nothing about, yet they managed to upset them. PaxNurgle what exactly happened - in your opening post you tried to turn the issue on the person you were engaging with yet I sense something went down more than just polite conversation, which really should not bring gender calling into the mix any way. You apparently pushed boundaries, how and why?

 

[emme8]

How about addressing them using the name they were introduced to you as, until they give you further instructions.
For instance, "Steve, would you like a drink?"

Or to the bartender " I'd like to buy Steve a drink, Steve is in the red shirt at the bar third from the left, please get Steve another of whichever drink Steve is drinking, and please tell Steve it came from me?"

 

[PaxNurgle]

^That seems fair and good advice. My interaction was with a person in a retail buisness who got upset when I called her "Sir" and she haughtily explained that, well, I was wrong. I apologized to her and hopefully that was enough, though it was still embarassing.

 

[stickygirl]

^That seems fair and good advice. My interaction was with a person in a retail buisness who got upset when I called her "Sir" and she haughtily explained that, well, I was wrong. I apologized to her and hopefully that was enough, though it was still embarassing.

I'm not sure how that interaction went for you to end up using pronouns, unless you're someone that says "Excuse me, Miss/Sir". There are neutral words you can use at a pinch "dude" can get you out of trouble in some situations.

If you were referring to the other person in a line, like "Oh no, that person was in front me so they should go first" doesn't sound odd to me. Language is fickle at times. Don't let the embarrassment eat away at you - shit happens, say sorry and move on.

 

[Britva415]

Just say "Your Honor" if it seems like sir or madam could backfire.

 

[twister947]

Dumpster fires never really go out.

 

[ericalauren]

"Hi, my name is [insert your name here], and I use [insert your pronouns here, for example "he/him"] pronouns. What pronouns do you use?" Their gender is not your concern, unless they bring it up.

 

[Britva415]

My interaction was with a person in a retail buisness who got upset when I called her "Sir"

Yeah, maybe just don't do this at all.

I mean, I get that you're in a service position and trying to be polite, but this was a situation where (you said) you genuinely thought it was a guy. So this isn't even a matter of knowing whether there's a proper way to call some random transman. This is just a matter of being wrong.

Which could happen anywhere, any time, so, it seems to me that the simplest way to avoid it most of the time is to simply not use gendered language at all.

 

[techiedude71]

I don’t have any issue and I’d rather be called out for asking and be wrong then ask what someone wants to be called. It’s gone both ways for me and often. I simply try to avoid gender based pronouns when you’re not sure. Just ask. It might make that persons day a bit better.

People correct ma’am and sir all the time. I don’t have pronouns but I respect those who do.

 

[techiedude71]

In my experience I’ve offended people by asking how they wish to be called and I’ve not so much offended the obviously ambiguous.

Bottom line is sometimes you cannot win. Kinda damned if you damned if you don’t.

Although you all should be lucky to not have to shop and or work in Manhattan. It’s like a minefield.

 

[techiedude71]

I read over that above post and I get more now what you mean. I always ask someone if I’m not sure. That’s all I meant. Simply asking has offended people. Most people are cool with it but then ask what I think they look like that I had to ask.

Minefield!

 

[ericalauren]

I don’t have any issue and I’d rather be called out for asking and be wrong then ask what someone wants to be called. It’s gone both ways for me and often. I simply try to avoid gender based pronouns when you’re not sure. Just ask. It might make that persons day a bit better.

People correct ma’am and sir all the time. I don’t have pronouns but I respect those who do.

What do you mean that you "don't have pronouns"? Do you just use your first name instead of pronouns (like he/him, etc)?

 

[techiedude71]

I usually correct someone if they call me “Mr Surname” and just tell them use my first. In a brief interaction I’m not going to correct the use of “sir” but I hate it. It’s necessary sometimes I get that.. Same feeling I get when I get my shoes shined in Grand Central Station. Like I’m above someone.


I’ve called women ma’am and they complain “do they look that old” and I’ve always gotten confused by that one.. as if ma’am somehow ages them 20 years.

With all that said someone have identity issues is going to have that all affect them a lot differently. It’s really not that big a deal to try to respect them in that moment.

Among friends and what not dude, guy, he him and even asshole all work. I don’t correct anyone.

 

[techiedude71]

Right but that’s conversation in which case pleasantries were already exchanged and precedence was set. Situations in retail, service and general stuff. Like “excuse me but you’re blocking the door” or stuff like that.

 

[ericalauren]

I usually correct someone if they call me “Mr Surname” and just tell them use my first. In a brief interaction I’m not going to correct the use of “sir” but I hate it. It’s necessary sometimes I get that.. Same feeling I get when I get my shoes shined in Grand Central Station. Like I’m above someone.


I’ve called women ma’am and they complain “do they look that old” and I’ve always gotten confused by that one.. as if ma’am somehow ages them 20 years.

With all that said someone have identity issues is going to have that all affect them a lot differently. It’s really not that big a deal to try to respect them in that moment.

Among friends and what not dude, guy, he him and even asshole all work. I don’t correct anyone.

I think that you are confused as to what pronouns are. Your profile says that you are male. Do you use "he/him" pronouns? Or what? "Ma'am" is not a pronoun.

 

[stickygirl]

This all shows how significant it is to be able to gender someone. When people on the street automatically gender you, they also ascribe a number of other societal values to you. If you fall outside of those gender expectations, then you become marked out - people will scrutinise you in order to figure out, not what's in your pants necessarily, but where you fit in the hierarchy.

The person who takes offence at being corrected simply hates being corrected. Period. They'd show the same reaction if someone pointed out they'd not tucked in their shirt.

In the UK we'd apologise to the person blocking the door "I'm sorry, can I get through please? Sorry."

ETA I can't think of when I last heard an English person use Ma'am or Sir, so we kinda sidestep that whole issue. To my mind it smacks of classism.

 

[techiedude71]

I think that you are confused as to what pronouns are. Your profile says that you are male. Do you use "he/him" pronouns? Or what? "Ma'am" is not a pronoun.

I use he he/him, yes but I never make any bones about it. I’m a male and a man born with a penis.

See the minefield? My bottom line is I prefer to respect the individual no matter what but I’m not much for it myself when I’m being addressed.

I feel like I’m just making it worse but please understand I respect the pronouns other people prefer to be referred to as.

Much more complicated on forums when you’re not able to see the individual. Perhaps easier as there is no inference to that unless required.

 

[Britva415]

Being misgendered is very hurtful to many people

Is "misgendering" what a one-time honest mistake by a stranger is normally called?

I thought "misgendering" was normally what we call deliberately ignoring what the person has said about their pronouns, name, etc.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Is "misgendering" what a one-time honest mistake by a stranger is normally called?

I thought "misgendering" was normally what we call deliberately ignoring what the person has said about their pronouns, name, etc.

Misgendering is misgendering, regardless of intent. If one is misgendering intentionally, though, they are beyond low.

 

[techiedude71]

See I disagree with that. If I have to ask it’s clearly not obvious and if you get offended by that you can go fuck your self.

 

[techiedude71]

This forum doesn’t count as this interaction would have not gone this way in person.

 

[Britva415]

No one gets offended by the ask.
OK, I shoudn't say that NO ONE does, but most people who don't fall cleanly into the gender binary are fine with someone asking what npronouns they use. I have a number of friends who identify as non-binary

It's probably better to endeavor to respect someone who appears non-binary or trans than to preserve the feelings of someone whose presentation is confusing but is firmly cis.

Because, you can't always tell just by looking which they are.

 

[techiedude71]

No one gets offended by the ask.
OK, I shoudn't say that NO ONE does, but most people who don't fall cleanly into the gender binary are fine with someone asking what npronouns they use. I have a number of friends who identify as non-binary, and present in a way common to male/female, but use they/them pronouns. None of them get bothered by someone asking. In fact, they appreciate it.

It’s happened. One of my daughters friends switched sides constantly and was always a professional victim. Loved to argue and be difficult. I’m so glad he went full male senior year so I didn’t have to deal with it anymore. Off to college they all went. Plus asking people makes them think I want to hear all the stuff they went through. I listen and talk and try to understand.

It’s very hard for me to understand but
I respect their pronouns bottom line.

 

[techiedude71]

I knew that was coming.

 

[techiedude71]

I’m sure you’re also argumentative and over sensitive about it but I don’t know you and you don’t know me and this is not the place.

I was cool with where it was left as is.