How to deal...?

[PublicAffection]

Not sure I totally agree with this because if you are in a serious relationship (as in planning to spend your life together as a couple) it is about both people and definately does have something to do with the partner because it is affecting them and the relationship. Being part of a serious and caring relationship is about sharing and working together to make it workable and pleasant for both, not one partner saying 'fuck you' and doing what they want without thought to how that impacts on the other person. It is great he has been honest about his needs, but I suspect the reason why he did that was because he respected her, their relationship and future, and wanted to be able to work through this together rather than have it all blow up in his face at some point leaving him still with his desires and the clothes that go with it, but without the person he loves and shared life with...it is cold comfort when sitting alone and lonely to say it had nothing to do with them and was all about you.

Catalina

Thank you - I was having difficulty trying to put a response together for that. True, his fetish is not about me. It's about him making himself feel good. But the way it makes me feel and the way it affects my perception of how things are is definately about me, and us, and our relationship.

This is a dimention that I was completely unaware existed - and have been completely unprepared to deal with. The only other man I've been with who wore women's clothes did it without telling me - he wasn't just wearing women's clothes, he was wearing MY clothes, and then at another point gave my clothes to the woman he was cheating on me with because he thought they looked better on her.

I know that my current s/o is not the same man who tore me down and basically made me believe that I was a horrible sexless object that coule be easily replaced. But those issues have become mixed in the current situation. I know it is not reality, and it is not logical that the same thing will happen as it did before; but I am fearful that I (and my role as woman) am going to become an un-needed facit to the relationship.

 

[Netzach]

Thank you - I was having difficulty trying to put a response together for that. True, his fetish is not about me. It's about him making himself feel good. But the way it makes me feel and the way it affects my perception of how things are is definately about me, and us, and our relationship.

This is a dimention that I was completely unaware existed - and have been completely unprepared to deal with. The only other man I've been with who wore women's clothes did it without telling me - he wasn't just wearing women's clothes, he was wearing MY clothes, and then at another point gave my clothes to the woman he was cheating on me with because he thought they looked better on her.

I know that my current s/o is not the same man who tore me down and basically made me believe that I was a horrible sexless object that coule be easily replaced. But those issues have become mixed in the current situation. I know it is not reality, and it is not logical that the same thing will happen as it did before; but I am fearful that I (and my role as woman) am going to become an un-needed facit to the relationship.

Does he know about that bit of past history? I think it would be helpful if you're sort of freaking out, for him to know why and maybe you can both come up with something he can do that helps reassure you. Everyone deserves a fair break from people's past crap, and often when I'm upset I'm really just needing some acknowledgment.

 

[Rosie_Riveter]

Thank you - I was having difficulty trying to put a response together for that. True, his fetish is not about me. It's about him making himself feel good. But the way it makes me feel and the way it affects my perception of how things are is definately about me, and us, and our relationship.

This is a dimention that I was completely unaware existed - and have been completely unprepared to deal with. The only other man I've been with who wore women's clothes did it without telling me - he wasn't just wearing women's clothes, he was wearing MY clothes, and then at another point gave my clothes to the woman he was cheating on me with because he thought they looked better on her.

I know that my current s/o is not the same man who tore me down and basically made me believe that I was a horrible sexless object that coule be easily replaced. But those issues have become mixed in the current situation. I know it is not reality, and it is not logical that the same thing will happen as it did before; but I am fearful that I (and my role as woman) am going to become an un-needed facit to the relationship.

Okay, given your history, I think you're doing great!

Actually, I thought you were doing great even before this post.

But clearly cross-dressing is mixed up with some pretty awful stuff for you, and talking about that with your guy is clearly essential.

 

[BiBunny]

Not sure I totally agree with this because if you are in a serious relationship (as in planning to spend your life together as a couple) it is about both people and definately does have something to do with the partner because it is affecting them and the relationship. Being part of a serious and caring relationship is about sharing and working together to make it workable and pleasant for both, not one partner saying 'fuck you' and doing what they want without thought to how that impacts on the other person. It is great he has been honest about his needs, but I suspect the reason why he did that was because he respected her, their relationship and future, and wanted to be able to work through this together rather than have it all blow up in his face at some point leaving him still with his desires and the clothes that go with it, but without the person he loves and shared life with...it is cold comfort when sitting alone and lonely to say it had nothing to do with them and was all about you.

Catalina

Um, I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. Or else I didn't word it well, which is hardly a surprise, LOL.

I didn't mean that he should just be like "fuck you" to her. I was just trying to say, let's look at this from his perspective. I'm sure his telling her about this wasn't a decision he came to lightly. He could've easily never told her, but, like you said, he respected her and the relationship enough to come clean. I imagine the poor man went through a lot of soul-searching to decide what to do, but he chose to be honest because he loved her and hoped she would understand. Basically, he did The Right Thing by sharing something so personal about himself.

And now she's making it about her. It's like when my mother "discovered" I was bi. (I didn't tell her.) There was much chest-beating and gnashing of teeth on her part. "Oh, God, what did I do wrong? What kind of mother was I that made this happen? Why are you doing this TO ME?"

Newsflash, honey. It ain't about you. It's me and my need. I'd hope that someone who professed to love another person wouldn't make it all about them and how they feel when the other person is going through so much and hoping their partner would be understanding.

But then, I suppose, that could turn into one of my rants on how love is not supposed to be selfish, even though most people think it is, and that's another thread entirely.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't read it the same as you BB. I just see someone who is genuinely trying to come to terms with something she didn't expect, and which (not that unlike your own problems with certain areas) has a history which is not making it that easy to deal with the multitude of conflicting emotions. I did not see any anger, nor tantrums, just a lot of soul searching and desire to understand more about what she is dealing with. I would hope that he is on a place where it is not an issue as far as self acceptance goes, thus removing the need to make it about him and instead be able to calmly and honestly answer any and all her questions, support her in her desire to come to terms with it and learn how to successfully include it in their lives for him and her, understand her difficulty, and work together toward a healthy outcome.

Your example of when you told your mother about your sexuality to me sounds like you had a lot of anger or difficulty yourself in fully accepting or dealing with it and so felt resentment and anger she reacted the way she did. There are things in life which if you are unprepared for them do highside you at times until you have time to calmly reassess them. We are all just human and you know yourself you have had moments when you have not been able to calmly accept things happening in your world because of the actions or needs of someone else. and you weren't on the verge of marrying them....this is no different IMHO.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I don't read it the same as you BB. I just see someone who is genuinely trying to come to terms with something she didn't expect, and which (not that unlike your own problems with certain areas) has a history which is not making it that easy to deal with the multitude of conflicting emotions. I did not see any anger, nor tantrums, just a lot of soul searching and desire to understand more about what she is dealing with. I would hope that he is on a place where it is not an issue as far as self acceptance goes, thus removing the need to make it about him and instead be able to calmly and honestly answer any and all her questions, support her in her desire to come to terms with it and learn how to successfully include it in their lives for him and her, understand her difficulty, and work together toward a healthy outcome.

Your example of when you told your mother about your sexuality to me sounds like you had a lot of anger or difficulty yourself in fully accepting or dealing with it and so felt resentment and anger she reacted the way she did. There are things in life which if you are unprepared for them do highside you at times until you have time to calmly reassess them. We are all just human and you know yourself you have had moments when you have not been able to calmly accept things happening in your world because of the actions or needs of someone else. and you weren't on the verge of marrying them....this is no different IMHO.

Catalina

No, Cat, I didn't tell my mother anything about my sexuality, mostly because I felt it was none of her business. We don't discuss sex in my family, which is just fine with me. She found out on her own accord and thought it would be prudent to tell me just how disgusting she thought I was. And she had to tell my father about it, too, because she "wasn't able to handle it on her own." Kinda blew her mind when his reaction was, "So?"

I have issues with a lot of things, admittedly, but my sexuality's not one of them. I was angry at her because, in my world, love is supposed to be unconditional. Not that I ever expected anything else from her because she's always placed conditions on me, and I've never measured up, but still. If someone I was in a relationship with acted the way she did, I'd have ended the relationship. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who thinks your needs are disgusting. But, unfortunately, you can't choose your parents.

And I can understand being blindsided by something. What I can't understand is internalizing your own issues and projecting them onto someone else. Maybe the poor guy just wants her to say, "No, I don't understand, but I'd be willing to learn if it makes you happy." Like I said, in the grand scheme of things, I really don't think the desire to wear panties is that big a deal. But that's just me.

 

[PublicAffection]

Does he know about that bit of past history? I think it would be helpful if you're sort of freaking out, for him to know why and maybe you can both come up with something he can do that helps reassure you. Everyone deserves a fair break from people's past crap, and often when I'm upset I'm really just needing some acknowledgment.

Yes, we have discussed that and other things about my past relationships. It has given him a lot of insight on my oddities and issues. There have been a lot of things that happened in my life that have created a long list of triggers and nerotic tendancies. It has been a lot for both of us to deal with, but we have worked on it together and have come a long way.

 

[PublicAffection]

Okay, given your history, I think you're doing great!

Actually, I thought you were doing great even before this post.

But clearly cross-dressing is mixed up with some pretty awful stuff for you, and talking about that with your guy is clearly essential.

I am blessed that he is patient and understanding. If it wasn't for his continuous feedback, approval and comforting I would probably still be lost in a cycle of self-doubt & loathing.

And thank you for your post. It helps a lot to know that I can come here to this safe place and chat amongst people who are (generally) supportive and caring. Litsters have been a great group of people to discuss these types of things with... and generally all things that I feel unable to talk to with the people in my "real" life social circle.

 

[PublicAffection]

No, Cat, I didn't tell my mother anything about my sexuality, mostly because I felt it was none of her business. We don't discuss sex in my family, which is just fine with me. She found out on her own accord and thought it would be prudent to tell me just how disgusting she thought I was. And she had to tell my father about it, too, because she "wasn't able to handle it on her own." Kinda blew her mind when his reaction was, "So?"

I have issues with a lot of things, admittedly, but my sexuality's not one of them. I was angry at her because, in my world, love is supposed to be unconditional. Not that I ever expected anything else from her because she's always placed conditions on me, and I've never measured up, but still. If someone I was in a relationship with acted the way she did, I'd have ended the relationship. I can't imagine wanting to be with someone who thinks your needs are disgusting. But, unfortunately, you can't choose your parents.

And I can understand being blindsided by something. What I can't understand is internalizing your own issues and projecting them onto someone else. Maybe the poor guy just wants her to say, "No, I don't understand, but I'd be willing to learn if it makes you happy." Like I said, in the grand scheme of things, I really don't think the desire to wear panties is that big a deal. But that's just me.

I am very sorry that your mom made you feel like that - I also have a very dissapproving parental unit and I know how frustrating it is to have a parent who won't accept you as you are.

With our situation - I haven't told him that I think it's disgusting, because I don't think it's disgusting. I haven't told anyone in our social circle about it, and no one in our families because there is no reason for me to. It is his thing, and if he really wanted everyone to know I'm sure he would have by now. I'm not putting conditions on how much I love him. I just wasn't expecting this... it wasn't part of what I "signed up" for. I don't think he's weird, or gross, or whatever for wanting to do the things that he wants to do.

I am trying to understand him, and trying to understand the lengths to which he wants to take this. It will take some time to adjust to, and a lot of re-defining of what I will and won't accept in our relationship.

 

[PublicAffection]

I would hope that he is on a place where it is not an issue as far as self acceptance goes, thus removing the need to make it about him and instead be able to calmly and honestly answer any and all her questions, support her in her desire to come to terms with it and learn how to successfully include it in their lives for him and her, understand her difficulty, and work together toward a healthy outcome.
Catalina

This is very true of him. He is very secure with himself and with our relationship as a whole. Yes, he was afraid of how I might react to this and I think on some level he thought that I might even leave him over it. But now that the secret's out, and I haven't left, he is very understanding and willing to patiently help me to work through the shock of it all.

Thank you to all of you who have posted over the last couple of days - this has been a fantastic outlet for me (and was actually my fiancee's idea) and a great release of my volitile fears.

 

[BiBunny]

I'm not putting conditions on how much I love him.

It will take some time to adjust to, and a lot of re-defining of what I will and won't accept in our relationship.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but do you see how these two statements contradict one another? It's like you're saying the PC thing to the "freaks" on this board, so you won't piss us off, but you're secretly asking yourself if you're going to "allow" him to do this or not.

I am absolutely not trying to be mean--though I'm often accused of it--; I'm just trying to make you see something that you may not even realize you're doing. If I, some random person on a message board, can see it, then I bet it bleeds through in your interaction with your fiance.

 

[intothewoods]

Um, I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. Or else I didn't word it well, which is hardly a surprise, LOL.

I didn't mean that he should just be like "fuck you" to her. I was just trying to say, let's look at this from his perspective. I'm sure his telling her about this wasn't a decision he came to lightly. He could've easily never told her, but, like you said, he respected her and the relationship enough to come clean. I imagine the poor man went through a lot of soul-searching to decide what to do, but he chose to be honest because he loved her and hoped she would understand. Basically, he did The Right Thing by sharing something so personal about himself.

And now she's making it about her. It's like when my mother "discovered" I was bi. (I didn't tell her.) There was much chest-beating and gnashing of teeth on her part. "Oh, God, what did I do wrong? What kind of mother was I that made this happen? Why are you doing this TO ME?"

Newsflash, honey. It ain't about you. It's me and my need. I'd hope that someone who professed to love another person wouldn't make it all about them and how they feel when the other person is going through so much and hoping their partner would be understanding.

But then, I suppose, that could turn into one of my rants on how love is not supposed to be selfish, even though most people think it is, and that's another thread entirely.

I see both sides. I think it is about him, but he probably does want acceptance and understanding from him.

If she were a friend or a family member, I would agree, it's not about her. But in a couple, it's about both of them, especially if they're going to make a family by getting married, and have kids. You know, it might just not be PA's preference. I think you're right to point out that there seems to be some internal conflict there.

 

[BiBunny]

I see both sides. I think it is about him, but he probably does want acceptance and understanding from him.

If she were a friend or a family member, I would agree, it's not about her. But in a couple, it's about both of them, especially if they're going to make a family by getting married, and have kids. You know, it might just not be PA's preference. I think you're right to point out that there seems to be some internal conflict there.

And it's fine if it's not her preference, but it's a damned bad idea to marry the guy if it's not.

 

[intothewoods]

And it's fine if it's not her preference, but it's a damned bad idea to marry the guy if it's not.

Oh hell yes.

 

[PublicAffection]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but do you see how these two statements contradict one another? It's like you're saying the PC thing to the "freaks" on this board, so you won't piss us off, but you're secretly asking yourself if you're going to "allow" him to do this or not.

I am absolutely not trying to be mean--though I'm often accused of it--; I'm just trying to make you see something that you may not even realize you're doing. If I, some random person on a message board, can see it, then I bet it bleeds through in your interaction with your fiance.

The statements are not contradictary. When looking for someone to be with, I did not want to be with a man who cross dressed. However, I fell in love with a man and found out after our relationship had gone beyond just dating and feeling eachother out - that this is something that he does. So, in order for me to remain in this relationship, I have to change the boundaries that I have set for myself - and where my boundaries lay in a relationship that I am taking part in.

If I were putting limits on my love for him, then I would leave. Instead I am trying to move past my fears and move forward with him through this - just as we have done with other issues.

I also don't believe I ever called anyone on this board - or any board - a freak, with the possible exception of my ex (but that is in a completely different and non-sexual context).

 

[BiBunny]

The statements are not contradictary. When looking for someone to be with, I did not want to be with a man who cross dressed. However, I fell in love with a man and found out after our relationship had gone beyond just dating and feeling eachother out - that this is something that he does. So, in order for me to remain in this relationship, I have to change the boundaries that I have set for myself - and where my boundaries lay in a relationship that I am taking part in.

If I were putting limits on my love for him, then I would leave. Instead I am trying to move past my fears and move forward with him through this - just as we have done with other issues.

I also don't believe I ever called anyone on this board - or any board - a freak, with the possible exception of my ex (but that is in a completely different and non-sexual context).

*Whoosh*

That would be the sound of my entire post going right over your head. Or maybe not, given the sudden defensiveness.

Anyway, I'll leave everyone else to hold your hand and tell you what you want to hear. But if you want this relationship to work out, you might want to heed what I'm saying, just a tiny bit. Like I said, if I can see it, I have no doubt that he can, too. Poor guy.

 

[LilyBart]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but do you see how these two statements contradict one another? It's like you're saying the PC thing to the "freaks" on this board, so you won't piss us off, but you're secretly asking yourself if you're going to "allow" him to do this or not.

I am absolutely not trying to be mean--though I'm often accused of it--; I'm just trying to make you see something that you may not even realize you're doing. If I, some random person on a message board, can see it, then I bet it bleeds through in your interaction with your fiance.

I think, for me anyway, BiBunny is right on target.
Now for the old goat response, again....after 25+ years of togetherness.... "allow" is not even part of our vocabulary ...we just Do. (and we would be considered mostly vanilla on this board).

If you really are in love, then you are willing to explore together. period. With a very open mind.

Frankly, my experience with friends who say they are willing to experiment, really aren't. So please ask yourself that first. Including your own self.

That said, experimentation is fun.

 

[lux221]

i commend you for working through your own emotions. considering your past you're doing very well. he isn't the only person in the relationship and your thoughs and feelings matter too. don't let anyone tell you different. and if a relationship is going to work when one partner blindsides the other, then the blindsided partner may have a torrent of emotions to deal with, and may need some time to adjust. it's easy to say he's the same man, but this is something you're going to have to work out,

and you're trying to look at this from his perspective, but you has perspectives too. his desire to wear panties doesn't trump your own emotions and desires. hell...a lot of people wouldn't even try to work it out - they'd just bail.

i wish you luck, PublicAffection, it's not easy being blindsided. the only advice i have is communicate your feelings to him, and try to understand his feelings. he seems like a good guy. good on him for telling you.

right now there is an internal conflict, but that's not at all unusual response when one partner springs something completely unexpected on them. if you two can work this out the internal conflict should subside or get much easier to deal with.

sort of like how people in poly relationships make still feel jealous even though they intellectually know their spouse isn't just going to ditch them for someone else. emotions are natural - it's how you respond to them that matters, in my opinion.

 

[lux221]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but do you see how these two statements contradict one another?

no they don't.

i don't put conditions on how much i love my husband, but love doesn't equal accepting everything. there are some things that are deal breakers. my love is unconditional - my remaining his wife is not.

 

[nh23]

no they don't.

i don't put conditions on how much i love my husband, but love doesn't equal accepting everything. there are some things that are deal breakers. my love is unconditional - my remaining his wife is not.

That makes no fucking sense to me.

 

[BiBunny]

That makes no fucking sense to me.

In the context of this thread, no, it doesn't.

Though now I'm waiting for the inevitable, "Well, if he killed someone, I wouldn't want to be with him anymore." Panties =/= murder.

 

[nh23]

In the context of this thread, no, it doesn't.

Though now I'm waiting for the inevitable, "Well, if he killed someone, I wouldn't want to be with him anymore." Panties =/= murder.

Haha..great minds and all. I was waiting on well what if you found out he was molesting children. That is not even anywhere near the same thing. What bugs me about saying that. I love my husband to death. I know he loves me. I can't imagine how crushed I would be if he said I can't accept your kinks. I still love you but I can't be your husband. Kinks or not I'm still the same person. It just boggles my mind.

 

[BiBunny]

Haha..great minds and all. I was waiting on well what if you found out he was molesting children. That is not even anywhere near the same thing. What bugs me about saying that. I love my husband to death. I know he loves me. I can't imagine how crushed I would be if he said I can't accept your kinks. I still love you but I can't be your husband. Kinks or not I'm still the same person. It just boggles my mind.

Ditto.

 

[lux221]

That makes no fucking sense to me.

i will always love him, no matter what. my love for him is unconditional, but if my needs, or his personality changed to such a degree that we were no longer compatible as life partners, we'd have to end our romantic relationship. though i'd always love him.

 

[FurryFury]

I know this won't be a popular statement but I don't believe in unconditional love. I don't see it as obtainable or even something we should wish for. I see as co-dependent.

*shrug*

That being said, I think I'm come pretty damned close to being both co-dependent and someone who loves unconditionally but I'm working on being healthier.