I can write but I can't read

[jon.hayworth]

I think Doc being on Lit is a bit like a kid in a sweetshop.

On that theme let me tell you a story about Cadbury's Chocolate factory. They had a policy that all employees could eat as much chocolate as they wanted (for free) - they used to reckon that by the end of the first week a new employee would never eat chocolate again.

To some extent I think that a lot of us suffer the same fate. I also think that as we improve our own writing technique, that we in turn become more critical of what we read.

In a year, thanks to the experience I have gained on Lit., I have gone from never paid for a story to selling stories - and yes I still put stories on Lit because here I am free to experiment, free to write what ever length the story dictates, and free to write about anything I want.

I have also met a fantastic editor who works tirelessly, sorry WSO I have never said just read this.


jon

 

[wildsweetone]

I have also met a fantastic editor who works tirelessly, sorry WSO I have never said just read this. jon

That's okay dear, often it's difficult to 'just edit this' on your stories, you have a knack of putting me dead centre of the action. I love it when that happens.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

The Doctor is In

Okay, let's get to work. The Doctor will be gentle. Firm, but gentle

First of all, I didn't notce any big grammar or punctuation errors; at least nothing that leaped off the page at me. So the presentation was good.

Secondly, I must recuse myself somewhat, because incest stories don't do it for me. In fact, they turn me off. There always seems to be something terribly infantile to me in a person's wanting to have sex with their subling or parent or kid. But that's just me, and I know I'm in the minority in this group. Even so, I only read the first part of the story.

As far as plot goes. I must admit that I have no idea why Joe feels he has to get into the shower and wash his sister after the attack. If they've both decided to have sex at this point it comes as a surprise to me. But if not, then what kind of idiot would get into the shower naked with his naked sister?

Joe beating up her attackers is a very Big Brotherish thing to do, so that after the attack they are even more obviously brother & sister. Then he takes her home and gets in the shower with her. I don't buy it. Better maybe if she were so hysterical that she wouldn't get into the shower without him there, & you can take things from there. (Just an idea. Hysteria's a good way to rationalize irrational behavior though)

I also don't understand why Woody and "stout little Tuck" decide to rape her. Is she a tease? You don't show us that. As soon as they stopped the car I knew that it was going to be so that they could rape her so that Joe could beat them up. Your plot was showing. Actually, as soon as I saw the word "marine" I knew someone was going to get beat up. (Why else would you tell us that he was a marine?) I also don't understand how these kids wouldn't know that she had a brother. I mean, just because he's in Kuwait it's not like you wouldn't mention him.

And now the concert: You've chosen to do a very difficult piece of writing in having a group of people do anything together. Groups of individuals are very very difficult to handle in fiction, because, although you may be able to keep them separate, usually the reader can't, and I quickly forget of Lexsie was Joe's date or what. Also, just having them interact is invariably clumsy, with a lot of A said, B responded, chimed in C, D retorted... There was a part when there were a bunch of "she saids" & I didn't know what she you were talking about. So if you don't absolutely need all these people, get rid of them. I know that their purpose was to make a party afterwards, but maybe you could have done it with fewer people.
When they were all splitting up to go to the party, I got hopelessly lost. I was still trying to figure out if Tuck was a boy or a girl.

Your revelation of Joe and Jesse's sibhood confused me too. I just didn't like the way it happened, it wasn't written right. I know you wanted to hold of her recognition of Joe as a way of building tension, but, you know, if you see your brother you recognize him. It may take an instant, but you recognize him. I don't think you can stop and flashback for that instant of revelation.

Okay. Style: First of all here, the prime directive of fiction writing: Don't tell it when you can show it. Don;t tell us he smokes when you can show himlighting a cigarette. Don't tell me she's nervous if you can show us her hand shaking as she fumbles for change in her purse. Fiction lives and dies in the details. Don't tell us anymore of their background than you absolutelyu have to, Much better to see it as the story develops: Joe brushing his hair and wondering how long it will take for his marine haircut to grow out. Jesse asking someone if this hat doesn't make her look older before she goes into the club, and breathing with relief when she'd let through the door. Then you don't have to tell us she's underage.

Also: stay away from all vague, subjective adjectives in your prose. Never tell us that someone looked "great". We have no idea of what your idea of "great" is. At some point jesse gave Joe a --what was it?--a "fascinating little hug" or something. What does that mean? Why was it fascinating? Did he feel her breasts jiggle against him? Her nipples poke into him? Did she bend into some sort of puzzle? Tell us the details, and we'll figure out what it meant.

FINALLY (whew!) Avoid all colloquialisms and slang in your narration. If you're narrating in first person, you can get away with it. But I thijhnk everyone makes a sosur face when they read that someone "was to drool for" or that someone usually dated "older chicks". You're an omniscient narrator--the voice of God. God doesn't say "to drool for".

Other than that...
No really, keep it up. Try to write a story where you don't tell us anything about the characters' pasts. Bring them to life and give them a past by showing us what they do. Good excercise.
Leave out the incest and I'll read the whole thing!

Your humble s---dr.M.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

By the way

I suppose it would have helped had I mentioned that the above critique was intended for Taffy's story, the link for which is in an earlier message.

Sorry

---dr.M.

 

[Quasimodem]

I just learned a new word.

Subling: n, a child who is dominated by a sister or brother.

Thanks, Doc.

 

[TaffyJ]

Thanks, Doc

As that was my first effort at publishing anything anywhere, I'll try not to cringe at my mess-ups.

I really appreciate the bit about what parts were confusing to you, and what parts were glaringly obvious (plot showing.) I've almost finished the second and final part, so I will keep it in the same tone and style as the first. I will really push myself on the next story, though.

As a new writer, it takes a while to get a feel for what is out there already. What is common, and what is uncommon. I guess I've got more reading to do. (Ugh) The last thing I want to be is predictable!

Thank you for your time and effort, especially since incest isn't your thing.

 

[JAYCE73]

Hey!

What guy on this site, who writes about sex doen't get laid? Grant it, my story does have a "Familiar ring" to it, but I must defend it. It is more that a sex story. It is actually about the, excuse the pun, UP's and Down's of a relationship that involves a porn star and a normal guy.

If you would just give it a chance, you'll see it isn't bad.
Now as regards my spelling, I have no excuse about that, I know It' messed up. I was going to send the entire script to a editor, but a lot of people replied back to me saying if, others enjoy reading it, forget about the spelling. So I left it alone. But the other chapters, I've written have gotten better.

Conclusion: Every publishing company, reads eveything that passes through to them. Only after they have read the scripts do they conclude wheather it is good or bad.
You my man, need not be overly critical of other peoples work. I've read some of your stuff, and they AIN'T going to make it on the New York Times best sellers list. But their good. The point is I READ THROUGH THEM COMPLETELY.
Besides, it's not like I'm making a career change. I do this for fun, like most people on this site.
There is just something about seeing what you've written, on a publishing site.
I hope I wasn't too strong. Jayce73

 

[Quasimodem]

Originally posted by JAYCE73
... Every publishing company, reads eveything that passes through to them. Only after they have read the scripts do they conclude wheather it is good or bad...

I hate to break it to you, Jayce73, but most publishers will ask for a sample chapter before they option a novel from an ESTABLISHED author.

A reader may go no deeper than one page, on a MS that comes in through the slush pile.

 

[jon.hayworth]

JAYCE73,

What a load of bull shit - all that you gave were cobbled together excuses for being lazy. Are you telling me that you do not have a spell check on your word processor program. When you write and publish work that you can not be bothered to spell check, you are insulting your readers.

You obviously are on some sort of an ego trip, without any regard for your own self respect. What do you think that it says about you that not only you are unable to spell, many of us have that problem; but you are also unable to use a spell check program.

When I read a writer like that I think 'dumb' scroll to the vote and give them a 1.

Take some pride in your work and want to improve or give up being a 'wannabe' writer.

If you don't have a decent word processor program go to OpenOffice.Org and download the one on there for free. Basically it is the old Sun Micro Systems Star Office 5.2 and it works well.

jon

ps I feel better for that rave.

 

[JAYCE73]

DUDE!

Did I like say your mom was so dumb that I told her it was chilly ouside, so she whent back and got a spoon?

What's up with the harsh words. I'm not lazy, I'm not on some sort of ego trip. And yes I do want so help in becomming a better writer.
You remind me of that first grade teacher I had, you know the one that was really mean.
You can mold some one, you can help them, you just have to do it in a way, that will help them succeed.
I just threw up a huge brick wall between you and I, that's not good, bro. So chill, give me some help that I can use.

Peace

 

[Madame Manga]

Jayce23, I would have KISSED HIS FUCKING BOOTS for a long, thought-out, in-depth crit like that on anything I have written. Do you have any idea how rare it is to get one of those? How valuable they are to anyone with a serious desire to improve? How unlikely a critic is to give anyone else such a boon in the face of such a reaction to his generosity?

Why am I even asking?

MM

 

[Quasimodem]

Re: DUDE!

Did I like say your mom was so dumb that I told her it was chilly ouside[1], so she whent[2] back and got a spoon?

What's up with the harsh words.[3] I'm not lazy, I'm not on some sort of ego trip. And yes I do want so[4] help in becomming[5] a better writer.
You remind me of that first grade teacher I had, you know the one that was really mean.
You can mold [6] some one, you can help them, you just have to do it in a way, that will help them succeed.
I just threw up a huge brick wall between you and I[7], that's not good, bro. So chill, give me some help that I can use.

Peace

[1] outside
[2] went
[3] ?
[4] some
[5] becoming
[6] mould
[7] me

[So chill, give me some help that I can use.] Brain transplants aren't legal, bro.

BTW: Would you 'throw up' another wall for me?

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Feel free

to criticise my stuff anytime you like. I would only ask that you try and be more specific than "won't make the New York best-sellers list".

I would also ask any reviewers of my stuff to bearthis in mind: I know I don't have plots. At this point, I'm not concerned with plots or character development. My one and only goal is to write the best, most graphic sex scenes that I can. I would ultimately like to find a way to make readers literally come in their pants.

I know that this is "stroke" lit, and is not the kind of thing most people want to see here, so my stuff is not for everyone. I would just ask that, should anyone critique my work, that they keep in mind what it was I am trying to achieve and judge the piece against that.

---dr.M.

 

[JAYCE73]

Ouch!

Uh DAMN! You guys make me feel so, tiny.
I'm a NOVICE FOR GOD SAKES.

Ok, if you want to take a bite out of me, make it feel good. Show me WHAT I NEED TO WORK ON, and work with me. It's obvious I have a spelling problem, excuse me, but the threads do not have spell check. So over look it.

HELP ME!

 

[Whispersecret]

Oh, my. Calm down, Jon and Jayce. Jon, you could have been a little more graceful in your reprimand. I agree with you that Jayce seems to be showing a disregard for his own work, but Jayce also had a good point. The harsh commentary isn't likely to make him want to change.

Jayce, don't listen to the people who say spelling doesn't matter. Of course it does.

It is true that SOME readers don't care. They will happily gloss over spelling, punctuation, and grammatical errors if a story is good enough. Perhaps, like the author, they can't see the errors either. But, even if they can, I'd venture to say that it's a rare occasion that a story is so fucking fantastic that everyone is willing to overlook bad mechanics.

Many readers do care about errors, myself included. Isn't it worth the effort to proofread your work to make sure you can reach as many readers as you can?

(Edited to fix a freakin' spelling mistake! LOL)

 

[JAYCE73]

Ok!~

Now that I can digest. It wasn't sugar coated, It wasn't vinergary either. But good USABLE adivice. Thank You.