I want too, but I know better

[EmpressFi]

No, goddammit, online is NOT real. Why the thoughts of those who actually have, you know, submitted to someone in person are suddenly superseded by the online psychodramas, I'll never understand, but there it is. As long as you can turn off your "Master" when you turn off your computer, IT IS NOT FUCKING REAL. Yeah, that's right. I said it, bitches. I know it's the fucking sacred cow around here, and I know we tiptoe around this kind of bullshit that ultimately DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER, but what the hell? May as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

Providing you're not tied up at the time, cant you get up and walk out of a scene or refuse to do what you're told? That's the same option as turning off submission when the IM window is closed or the computer is turned off. Just because someone with an online relationship has the OPTION to turn off their submission when the computer is off, doesnt mean that they would.

 

[RJMasters]

Now I wish I could join you both in that...minus the beer.

Catalina

We'll have to give Empress your beer then.

They do have a nice selection of wines and or iceteas.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't have a problem with people who take the view that online is not real to them, but I do have a problem when they try to force their opinion down others throats and be assholes about it. Its nothing but elitist type behavior.

I'm with you and just am not getting the argument 'it is not real' in terms of this thread. Adakgirl has already confirmed she actually was on webcam so she was seen by others, she did dance for others, all as ordered to do. So yes, she was displayed as he desired her to be...sure it was safer than in an actual same room situation, but then who knows if she might not run into one of these people in RL and without the protection of a PYL. Sheesh, there are thousands of women who get paid to do the same on webcam as a job...it is real for them.....there are people who post pics here on the order of their PYL ...no-one tells them it isn't real. Actually most drool and compliment them on their various assets etc.

I certainly felt my relationship with F was real enough when we were on opposite sides of the planet to go as far as arranging our marriage on his orders...and look, now we have been married and M/s for almost 6 years!! Real is what you make it....if you are someone who is going to enter into such an arrangment and feel you can really do as you want because the other won't know, then no, it probably doesn't feel real to you and is just a bit of light entertainment to while away the boredom. If you are someone who can commit to something and someone without needing their constant in your face contact and supervision, it can be as real as you both want it.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

From reading some of your previous posts I was shocked to read that..Just a random thought..it's early..lol.




*blinks* You don't know him very well at all, yet you really, really like him. Be careful chickie.


Hmmm..Ok don't wanna start a war this early in the morning. So I'll shut up about this one.





Ok..I see where you wrote that you may have just played along in the chat room because you want a Master,and to be Dominated so badly. *sighs* Take it slow, ease up it's not a race. I'm sure you long for a relationship right now, but jumping at the first thing that's offered, or doing things you're not comfortable with to gain someone's interest is not a good thing. Nor does desperation come off as a positive trait to most good Dominants. Relax, breathe, give yourself time to explore and see what you really want. Good Luck

I thought this post by nh23 was supportive, helpful, and really spot on.

I think a point that has been missed in the brouhaha is that it wasn't so much the OP's post, but several posters' reaction to it thereafter. I was really bothered by several posts that behaved as if this guy had entered into a D/s relationship with the OP and a requirement of that relationshp was showing her off on cam.

To me, the first question isn't, gee is this guy Dom material, but who is he, is he safe, are you going to meet him, does he want to pursue a relationship or was this just fun, etc. I really didn't like the leap from this incident to a negotiated D/s relationship.

And to be clear, heck no, I don't believe you must have a D/s relationship to post here. I just want what we're talking about to be clear before we all give advice.

I agree with this.

If my 18 year old niece started chatting with some guy on the other side of the planet, and he enticed her to flash and dance on cam for a bunch of anonymous strangers, would I think that was "real"? You're goddamn right I would.

And if she kept chatting with him, and he made her laugh, and shared her love of music and politics and running, and made her feel good about herself, and enticed her to spend more & more time online giving up time she would otherwise spend with nearby family and friends, I would think that was very "real" too.

And if they decided to consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, and he forbid dating local boys and insisted that she remain faithful to him for the months and years until he could find the time and money to turn their online relationship into a physical one, that too would be a "real" consequence for my niece.

Why on god's green earth people are wasting time arguing over whether online is worthy of disdain or "real", I honestly can't fathom. The key questions are as ITW just noted. Who is this guy, really? How do you know you can trust him & the strangers in his chat room not to plaster images of your bare tits all over the web? Are you looking for the virtual equivalent of a fuckbuddy or a life partner? If the latter, how can you reasonably determine if he is too, and how long are you willing to wait?

 

[RJMasters]

I'm with you and just am not getting the argument 'it is not real' in terms of this thread. Adakgirl has already confirmed she actually was on webcam so she was seen by others, she did dance for others, all as ordered to do. So yes, she was displayed as he desired her to be...sure it was safer than in an actual same room situation, but then who knows if she might not run into one of these people in RL and without the protection of a PYL. Sheesh, there are thousands of women who get paid to do the same on webcam as a job...it is real for them.....there are people who post pics here on the order of their PYL ...no-one tells them it isn't real. Actually most drool and compliment them on their various assets etc.

I certainly felt my relationship with F was real enough when we were on opposite sides of the planet to go as far as arranging our marriage on his orders...and look, now we have been married and M/s for almost 6 years!! Real is what you make it....if you are someone who is going to enter into such an arrangment and feel you can really do as you want because the other won't know, then no, it probably doesn't feel real to you and is just a bit of light entertainment to while away the boredom. If you are someone who can commit to something and someone without needing their constant in your face contact and supervision, it can be as real as you both want it.

Catalina

I am in agreement as to the nature of the thread and the events that occurred. In fact it was the expereince that happened which cause the OP to come here and seek out help to something that troubled her.

I also think the original topic is a good lesson for people to think about their actions when they are online. People should make sure that their actions refelect their values, because another thing that is very real about online expereinces can be guilt and regret.

I think that online, like most other things in life, require common sense. I agree with you that two people can make it be whatever they choose, but I do acknowledge that the meduim does have certain limitations where relationships are concerned. I don't think these limitations nullify the realness or genuiness of the things shared between the two people, it does mean they have to be mature enough to accept how such limitations will affect it.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I don't think these limitations nullify the realness or genuiness of the things shared between the two people, it does mean they have to be mature enough to accept how such limitations will affect it.

Definately, it is about how you handle it and/or if you can. I know after he returned to Europe, we planned to take our time and plan my move out well and stress free...well as stress free as possible. We found the distance was just too much and we were getting inot stupid disagreements which were nothing more than a way to let out our frustrations with being apart. It just seemed so much simpler to forget about careful planning and waiting and do the best we could with my moving immediately. LOL, lucky I was a resourceful person and used to handling my own life as it was up to me to go back to Oz and sell my house, arrange shipping, finalise everything there, and pack up all in a matter of a few weeks. It worked, but it also took its toll for a long time in terms of stress etc. Had nightmares about moving for months afterward!!

Catalina

 

[nh23]

I thought this post by nh23 was supportive, helpful, and really spot on.

Aww..that just made my day. After being told how rude it was that really makes me feel better. Thank You.

 

[SubKekiLee]

I am in agreement as to the nature of the thread and the events that occurred. In fact it was the expereince that happened which cause the OP to come here and seek out help to something that troubled her.

I also think the original topic is a good lesson for people to think about their actions when they are online. People should make sure that their actions refelect their values, because another thing that is very real about online expereinces can be guilt and regret.

I think that online, like most other things in life, require common sense. I agree with you that two people can make it be whatever they choose, but I do acknowledge that the meduim does have certain limitations where relationships are concerned. I don't think these limitations nullify the realness or genuiness of the things shared between the two people, it does mean they have to be mature enough to accept how such limitations will affect it.

Oh My! Rj sighting!!! YAY!!! I think nh was insightful and helpful... i dont think she was being rude or mean..

 

[sexycaz22]

I have been reading this thread for the last few days. I don't know how to respond to these who have made their POVs so I thought I would add my own, and what it means with online "vs" real time relationships.

I have been there and done the t-shirt with the online thing about a couple of years ago. Now, I regret it big time for various of reasons, but the one reason is that I was very depressed in these times, and was looking for something to keep me motivated. At the time, I did things I didn't even think I would do, I did things on webcam for other people and in a chatroom too. Always, afterwards, I felt a bit dirty and even worse than ever. Thankfully, at least for me, personally, I got out of that phase, but at the same time, I put the "kinky" me at the back of my mind, and never came back to it......till 6 months ago, after chatting with a friend ONLINE.

I strongly believe that online relationships can be created, but it does depend on the individuals in that relationship. For me, online chatting is what I can only do with potential subbies or Top guys, as I can't do phone calls. Of course, for me, as a rule, I would want to meet up with some of them, and then seeing how it goes. But I will always chat with them online, so......for me, an online relationship is possible, yes, but with the intention of meeting up in real life, and playing together in real time. I won't engage in anything on webcam or do roleplays online, as I certainly don't want to go through that terrible phase again. But for some people, this might not be possible. Perhaps due to long distance or for other reasons, but that's their personal choice and if it is real for them, thats good for them, as long as they know they are safe, and have open communication and trust in each other, just the same as real life relationships.

Just my two pennies........

 

[nh23]

Oh My! Rj sighting!!! YAY!!! I think nh was insightful and helpful... i dont think she was being rude or mean..

Thank ya doll

 

[Betticus]

LOL, that would be cool...I'll have the steak, you the beer, all in all only one meal!! But would they let us tag along I wonder?

Catalina:catroar

Hey, the more the merrier. My beer will have to be the root beer variety tho since I'm not drinking for this whole year. Well, not drinking anything with alcohol in it.

 

[FurryFury]

Now I wish I could join you both in that...minus the beer.

Catalina

Me too, minus the steak!

LOL

 

[FurryFury]

Reading the opening post, I'd say she asked questions here because she was confused and worried about something.

For the second time this week, I ask: Since when is a D/s relationship a prerequisite for posting questions or comments on this board?

Exactly!

 

[Perfect_Trust]

Considering I recently asked a question (based on online/phone) to which the answer from most was 'Communication' I'd consider that the same answer to the op applies here.

As for the online v real time issue, well I doubt I am as 'qualified' to answer as some, not having bags of experience with either. But, based on my limited experience they were both as 'real' to me.

1. The real time was more physically real.

2. The online was more emotionally real.

Ok, so the R/T included being flogged, hot wax, bondage etc... BUT I kinda got the feeling He was just accomodating me, because it was what I wanted.

The O/L was completely different in that it pushed me into a situation I wasn't entirely comfortable with at first. BUT, the realisation that I could and had done this merely because it was what He wanted was a very real buzz for me. And for Him too, not for the sake of wank material (His words, not mine) but because He knew I had struggled with it, & still did it anyway... hence it pushed my boundaries way more than the R/T.

 

[FurryFury]

Considering I recently asked a question (based on online/phone) to which the answer from most was 'Communication' I'd consider that the same answer to the op applies here.

As for the online v real time issue, well I doubt I am as 'qualified' to answer as some, not having bags of experience with either. But, based on my limited experience they were both as 'real' to me.

1. The real time was more physically real.

2. The online was more emotionally real.

Ok, so the R/T included being flogged, hot wax, bondage etc... BUT I kinda got the feeling He was just accomodating me, because it was what I wanted.

The O/L was completely different in that it pushed me into a situation I wasn't entirely comfortable with at first. BUT, the realisation that I could and had done this merely because it was what He wanted was a very real buzz for me. And for Him too, not for the sake of wank material (His words, not mine) but because He knew I had struggled with it, & still did it anyway... hence it pushed my boundaries way more than the R/T.

Great post IMO!

 

[BiaTcHiNFiRe]

FurryFury I you!! I can relate to everything you said about online D/s. Its nice to know there are people who does see this kind of relationship as a real. As for those who doesnt I can say just "we will never agree on this matter" *LOL*

Online D/s with the right person can be powerful and very real, at least for me it is. I got totaly no need to force anyone to agree with me tho + I am really a bit tired of this silly useless fighting between the real life PYL's/pyl's vs online PYL's/pyl's. What works for you, works for you. What works for me can be quite different. Does that make me bad or less submissive? I dont think so.

Some people do the real thing, some do it online. Whats the prob with it? Doesnt we like the very same things?? Theres no need to argue over this really. I am sure those who do D/s online have very good reasons for it. Do not judge someone when you dont know WHY they do what they do. Or are they bad just cuz they dont do the "same" you do? Does that makes you better? more submissive? Are we noobs and you profi? he he

I am not in a mood for another drama, so I am outta this thread *LOL*

*gag myself and runs outta here*

peace everyone

 

[Perfect_Trust]

Great post IMO!

Why thank you.

I have to admit that for me the perfect balance would be a mixture of physical and emotional play, since I get off more on the act of control rather than physical pain.

 

[panda7606]

I’ve lurked around here for a long time and have been following this thread with interest, so I finally decided to toss my hat in the ring.

My Dom and I met online in July of 2006, quite by accident. Neither of us was looking for someone, we just happened to start talking, enjoyed each other’s company and things went from there. Within days of meeting online for the first time we were IMing and talking on the phone on a daily basis, for hours at a time and into the wee hours of the morning. We were crazy, and turning into sleep deprived zombies, but we were having fun and enjoying each other in a way that neither of us had experienced before. At some point, I don’t remember exactly when, we started sleeping with the webcams on and with our phones on just to try and extend our connection and feel like we were together. We lived about 600 miles apart and because of that and a variety of other reasons which I won’t go into here, it was March of 2007 when we finally met RT and it went better than I had even dared to hope. From that weekend forward, we flew back and forth every other weekend. In July we went on a weeklong vacation together and at the end of that vacation he asked me to move in with him. I started looking for a job in his area, got the first job I interviewed for and moved in with him in September. And now we’re talking about buying a house, marriage and babies. All those oh-so-vanilla things that couples in love do.

My point here is that all those months we spent online before we met face to face were absolutely real and were the foundation of the relationship we have now. This is true of our love and this is also true of our D/s. I realize everyone couldn’t do what we did and that’s fine. It’s not for everyone and no one is telling anyone that they have to do it. But I would ask that you respect that it can be very real to those involved. I can’t even fathom how events that have changed the entire course of my life could be deemed nothing but fantasy. That’s ridiculous and insulting.

I really don’t see this as an argument of online versus RT though. Really I think it’s just an extension of that age old “my BDSM is better than your BDSM”. I like knife play. Does that mean my BDSM is better than someone who doesn’t like knife play? I certainly don’t think so. There are so many different facets to BDSM. And for some people it is more about the mental than the physical in the first place. That isn’t me and I couldn’t have sustained an online only relationship forever. But that is true of some people and ya know what? If it works for them and they are getting what they want out of it I am thrilled for them and am not about to tell them that their situation is not as good or not as real as mine. And for some people, like us, circumstances were such that we simply couldn’t get together RT before we did. What was I supposed to do? Walk away and tell the greatest man that I have ever known that online wasn’t real and unless he could get to me RT right away it was over? I can’t imagine having done such a thing and knowing what a wonderful man and Dom he is it would have without a doubt been the stupidest decision I’d ever made to let him go simply because circumstances dictated we do the online/phone thing for awhile.

I will say this though. Any Dom who claimed to have tons of experience with knife play when in reality all of that “experience” was online would not get a chance to wield his knife on me. There are some parts of BDSM that one must experience in RT to hone their skill. But there are also other parts that can very easily make the transition between RT and online and back again. And when they do I am not about to tell someone that their experience isn’t real or is just fantasy simply because it is different from my experience.

Chocolate ice cream and Strawberry ice cream are different. Some people prefer chocolate and others prefer strawberry. But when it comes right down to it, they are both ice cream.

 

[Adakgirl]

nh23, I did not read your post as being mean or rude either.

I did not name you...not because I did not have the "balls" to do so. I knew everyone would be well aware of whom I spoke about and I simply do not hold enough respect for you to bother using your name. It is obvious to me that you don't want to bother to listen or try to understand what people are attempting to get through to you anyway. Why should I bother to use your name?
Look him in the eye you say? Face to face? I DO look him in the eye and I am face to face with him when I look at his cam and he looks at mine. No it is not flesh to flesh, but it is real in the moment face to face. I see the look in his eyes, the expressions on his face. I hear his voice when he speaks.

I really was completely unaware that chatroom cams could be saved and used by others. Now I know, I won't do that again in public. Thank you for telling me about that! BTW all they saw was my breasts, nothing below the belt at all even when I danced. Heck, I have flashed my tits for years a biker events, it is almost second nature and no big deal to me. What I was concerned over was him thinking he could continue to be my instant Master after the room thing.

Who is this guy? I am still finding that out. I do know he is an x-professional wrestler. That he is 44yrs old, 6'4" tall and his body is hard as a rock, his bulk is almost pure muscle. That he has a damn fine looking face . He is a native of NY, he is quick and intelligent and has a great sense of humor. I know he is Dominant and I know he really digs the hell out of me.

I thought I made it clear that I was NOT an on-line player and was NOT looking for a fuckbuddie. Even though I do have intense desire to have a Master and to be submissive, I was not "looking" for anyone or anything when he came along.

Anyway, I enjoyed this thread, it brought to light many important aspects of posting on this forum. It clarified a lot of things for me and it made me feel so much better, less confused. It helped me to better able to handle this issue. It helped and that is what this forum is based on, helping others find their way.
So ty, ty, ty all each and every one of you, even those who dissed me.

 

[Betticus]

I hope everything works out for you both.

 

[intothewoods]

<snip>
I really was completely unaware that chatroom cams could be saved and used by others. Now I know, I won't do that again in public. Thank you for telling me about that! BTW all they saw was my breasts, nothing below the belt at all even when I danced. Heck, I have flashed my tits for years a biker events, it is almost second nature and no big deal to me. What I was concerned over was him thinking he could continue to be my instant Master after the room thing.

To the extent I have a problem with online, it's that I think people have a false sense of safety. Yes, anything on an online cam can be saved and used by others. Unlike a biker rally, there is more of a possibility people could associate your pics with your last name or other personal information.

Who is this guy? I am still finding that out. I do know he is an x-professional wrestler. That he is 44yrs old, 6'4" tall and his body is hard as a rock, his bulk is almost pure muscle. That he has a damn fine looking face . He is a native of NY, he is quick and intelligent and has a great sense of humor. I know he is Dominant and I know he really digs the hell out of me.

<snip>

How do you know he is an ex professional wrestler? Because he told you? Do you know his last name? If so did you google search that name? Did you verify the information in some way?

Yes, I'm sounding overly cautious, but you have to be. The same goes "in real life" of course. If you met someone in a bar I'd say the same thing. Often in real life, however, it's easier to verify what a person tells you in some way. And, though it does happen in real life (stories about men with multiple wives, for example), the con artist thing is more common online. Sometimes it's not even so much a con artist, as the fact that online we can present our best selves. It's often not a full picture. Does that happen at a bar, or at a party? Sure, all the time. But in real time, it's easier to suss out the breadth of a personality, warts and all.

 

[FungiUg]

How do you know he is an ex professional wrestler? Because he told you? Do you know his last name? If so did you google search that name? Did you verify the information in some way?

Yes, I'm sounding overly cautious, but you have to be. The same goes "in real life" of course. If you met someone in a bar I'd say the same thing. Often in real life, however, it's easier to verify what a person tells you in some way.

I agree: this is the point. It doesn't matter how you meet someone, it pays to check them out. That's part of learning who they really are.

I had a friend with a boyfriend (who she met in real life) that turned out to be nothing at all that he had claimed to be, and was in fact married with kids. It took her three months to discover this! The point being that no matter how you do this stuff, people can take you for a ride. At least the BDSM community makes an effort to encourage safe practices. We can all take some pride in that.

For me personally, I would say whatever means you use to meet people, you are still meeting people. They have the same issues, faults and tendencies. In some ways I have found online more honest and open, but then I've also run into the reverse. There is no true, real way because they are all people. Well, unless you are chatting up a 'bot of course!

 

[nh23]

nh23, I did not read your post as being mean or rude either.

*nods*

 

[Homburg]

My apologies to those offended.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

OOPS! Wrong thread! How the hell did that happen? ? ?