I want too, but I know better

[Adakgirl]

WoW, my heartfelt thanks for the support you have given me in the face of someone who was obviously snarky. She did not understand what I was asking or why, so decided it was not a valid thread. As far as her "Fantasy thinking" comment, that really pisses me off. I am trying to educate myself about this lifestyle and learn as much as I can before jumping into it r/l, that is not fantasy thinking, thats damn common sense.
I would ask her, when you were in school, educated by reading books and by listening to people who knew the subject, did you learn anything? Did you gain knowledge and insight, did you think about things like you had never thought about them before? Did you form opinions? Did you express your opinions in class? Did you take that education and use it to grow and improve your life?
Was what you learned real, did it "matter" or was your education simply fantasy thinking?
These aren't just any frivolous b/s chat rooms where I learn. They are BDSM lifestyle discussion rooms where real time serious topics are discussed and debated. By people who DO live this stuff everyday.
In the 28 replies in this forum where I have offered advice and put forth my opinions, never ONCE did I claim I was in the lifestyle r/l. Read my posts. Tell me if ANY advice I gave was wrong, damaging, destructive or against the basic principles of this lifestyle. Show me where I showed an attitude that equated on-line play to all other forms of BDSM. Show me where I claimed to be anything other than what I am. Other than the cock worship thing which I thought I explained.
I would hold those opinions I offered here to be the same regardless of if I was r/t or on-line.
No relationship, yep thats right but what I was pointing out to him is that if he DOES want build a relationship with me, then we need to do certain things right from the start. I am not in those rooms searching for a Master, I am not there for cyber play. I am there to learn, to explore and grow, to try and understand what I can first, so I don't get hurt, so I know how to stay safe and so I know a bit about what to expect once I do go r/t.
I don't see that as being stupid, I see it as looking out for my best interests. I am a grown 49yr old woman who has been around the block quite a few times. Don't you dare treat me as thought I don't know a thing about life.
Yes, I enjoyed what I did, but if you noticed I also recognized it for what it was.
Meeting him was purely random, an accident if you will. I refuse offers from men constantly in those rooms. Most are men who are just players and idiots. He is different.
This is the 1st and only time, I contacted a man and asked if he would like to talk to me.
He responded and off we went. We are going to see where this may lead, it may lead to r/l who knows? On-line is the only outlet for this I have right now. Believe me, I protect my heart, I won't allow this to get to a point where it may cause me emotional pain or damage.
Oh and btw,
I learned from a female freind of his last night, that he has been involved in BDSM as far as the club scenes in NY for a long time. I think he must have told me he was new and learning because that it the only side he has been exposed too. Now he is wanting to learn about the other side. The relationship side of it. That is my hope anyway.

Again, you people are great! You know your stuff and yes, that is why I brought this to you.
If you want to read the note I gave him lemmie know and I will post it up, what the heck.

 

[RJMasters]

I am glad that you have kept a positive outlook. One of the things that has always amused me are those who claim their RL experiences are somehow more valid than any other type of experiences and that if it isn't RL then it ain't real BDSM. Especially when the one doing the blasting is only about half my age...lol. Its not that I have limited myself from learning from those who are younger than I, its more I take exception when someone(anyone) tries to shove their opinion down my throat. My years have taught me that when a person does this, it usually has more to do with their own hangups and short comings than anything else.

As you continue to pursue this or other BDSM type relationships, my advice from my first post in this thread stil stands. Don't play headgames with yourself, know yourself and know what you want. I am glad you talked things over with this guy and glad he was receptive to what you had to say. I don't think there is a need for you to post the note you wrote him.

Your BDSM journey is yours. It is about your own personal happiness. IMNSHO it doesn't matter what medium a person chooses in order to pursue their own personal happiness. As long as you are satisfied and are getting your needs met, no one has the right to tell you that you are doing it wrong. We get enough of that kind of closed mindedness from mainstream society.

Good luck.

 

[BiBunny]

I am glad that you have kept a positive outlook. One of the things that has always amused me are those who claim their RL experiences are somehow more valid than any other type of experiences and that if it isn't RL then it ain't real BDSM. Especially when the one doing the blasting is only about half my age...lol. Its not that I have limited myself from learning from those who are younger than I, its more I take exception when someone(anyone) tries to shove their opinion down my throat. My years have taught me that when a person does this, it usually has more to do with their own hangups and short comings than anything else.

As you continue to pursue this or other BDSM type relationships, my advice from my first post in this thread stil stands. Don't play headgames with yourself, know yourself and know what you want. I am glad you talked things over with this guy and glad he was receptive to what you had to say. I don't think there is a need for you to post the note you wrote him.

Your BDSM journey is yours. It is about your own personal happiness. IMNSHO it doesn't matter what medium a person chooses in order to pursue their own personal happiness. As long as you are satisfied and are getting your needs met, no one has the right to tell you that you are doing it wrong. We get enough of that kind of closed mindedness from mainstream society.

Good luck.

I might be half the age of most people here, but I've also found that I have twice the experience of most of them, too. That's not a condemnation, merely an observation. Age isn't much of an indicator of anything, really, 'cept how many years one has been on this planet.

WoW, my heartfelt thanks for the support you have given me in the face of someone who was obviously snarky. She did not understand what I was asking or why, so decided it was not a valid thread. As far as her "Fantasy thinking" comment, that really pisses me off. I am trying to educate myself about this lifestyle and learn as much as I can before jumping into it r/l, that is not fantasy thinking, thats damn common sense.
I would ask her, when you were in school, educated by reading books and by listening to people who knew the subject, did you learn anything? Did you gain knowledge and insight, did you think about things like you had never thought about them before? Did you form opinions? Did you express your opinions in class? Did you take that education and use it to grow and improve your life?
Was what you learned real, did it "matter" or was your education simply fantasy thinking?
These aren't just any frivolous b/s chat rooms where I learn. They are BDSM lifestyle discussion rooms where real time serious topics are discussed and debated. By people who DO live this stuff everyday.
In the 28 replies in this forum where I have offered advice and put forth my opinions, never ONCE did I claim I was in the lifestyle r/l. Read my posts. Tell me if ANY advice I gave was wrong, damaging, destructive or against the basic principles of this lifestyle. Show me where I showed an attitude that equated on-line play to all other forms of BDSM. Show me where I claimed to be anything other than what I am. Other than the cock worship thing which I thought I explained.
I would hold those opinions I offered here to be the same regardless of if I was r/t or on-line.
No relationship, yep thats right but what I was pointing out to him is that if he DOES want build a relationship with me, then we need to do certain things right from the start. I am not in those rooms searching for a Master, I am not there for cyber play. I am there to learn, to explore and grow, to try and understand what I can first, so I don't get hurt, so I know how to stay safe and so I know a bit about what to expect once I do go r/t.
I don't see that as being stupid, I see it as looking out for my best interests. I am a grown 49yr old woman who has been around the block quite a few times. Don't you dare treat me as thought I don't know a thing about life.
Yes, I enjoyed what I did, but if you noticed I also recognized it for what it was.
Meeting him was purely random, an accident if you will. I refuse offers from men constantly in those rooms. Most are men who are just players and idiots. He is different.
This is the 1st and only time, I contacted a man and asked if he would like to talk to me.
He responded and off we went. We are going to see where this may lead, it may lead to r/l who knows? On-line is the only outlet for this I have right now. Believe me, I protect my heart, I won't allow this to get to a point where it may cause me emotional pain or damage.
Oh and btw,
I learned from a female freind of his last night, that he has been involved in BDSM as far as the club scenes in NY for a long time. I think he must have told me he was new and learning because that it the only side he has been exposed too. Now he is wanting to learn about the other side. The relationship side of it. That is my hope anyway.

Again, you people are great! You know your stuff and yes, that is why I brought this to you.
If you want to read the note I gave him lemmie know and I will post it up, what the heck.

"She" is called BiBunny. Or Bunny. Or BB. Or Fuzzy-Tailed Bitch. Or whatever. But if you're going to call me out, at least have the balls to name me, 'lessen you want yet another post to look like the kind of attention-whoring petty-assed "Oh-everybody-look-at-me-I'm-agonizing!" psychodrama that the rest of your posts in this thread have been.

Ok, first of all, please hit the "Enter" key twice for paragraph breaks. Some of my confusion may have been averted had I been able to read what the hell was going on without my fucking eyes crossing every second or third line. Secondly, the term is "magical thinking," not "fantasy thinking." I appear to not be the only person who has a problem comprehending what I'm reading.

Awwww, fuck it. Since I have the reputation as the horrible meanie around here anyway, I'm going to say what I know a bunch of people think when these types of threads come up day in and day out, but nobody has the fucking balls to say, and hypocrisy is rampant around this place, anyway.

No, goddammit, online is NOT real. Why the thoughts of those who actually have, you know, submitted to someone in person are suddenly superseded by the online psychodramas, I'll never understand, but there it is. As long as you can turn off your "Master" when you turn off your computer, IT IS NOT FUCKING REAL. Yeah, that's right. I said it, bitches. I know it's the fucking sacred cow around here, and I know we tiptoe around this kind of bullshit that ultimately DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER, but what the hell? May as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

So go ahead and castigate me if you wish. Until you can look in the eyes of the man and woman you serve and be face-to-face with who you are and what you're doing, everything up to that point is BULLSHIT.

All right. I wash my hands of this thread. Go ahead and draw and quarter me. I've just honestly gotten to the point where I don't give a flying fuck about what you people think of me.

 

[minx1]

Awwww, fuck it. Since I have the reputation as the horrible meanie around here anyway, I'm going to say what I know a bunch of people think when these types of threads come up day in and day out, but nobody has the fucking balls to say, and hypocrisy is rampant around this place, anyway.

No, goddammit, online is NOT real. Why the thoughts of those who actually have, you know, submitted to someone in person are suddenly superseded by the online psychodramas, I'll never understand, but there it is. As long as you can turn off your "Master" when you turn off your computer, IT IS NOT FUCKING REAL. Yeah, that's right. I said it, bitches. I know it's the fucking sacred cow around here, and I know we tiptoe around this kind of bullshit that ultimately DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER, but what the hell? May as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

So go ahead and castigate me if you wish. Until you can look in the eyes of the man and woman you serve and be face-to-face with who you are and what you're doing, everything up to that point is BULLSHIT.

All right. I wash my hands of this thread. Go ahead and draw and quarter me. I've just honestly gotten to the point where I don't give a flying fuck about what you people think of me.

What is it with all the self proclaimed 'bitches' round here lol? I obviously missed the moment that this became a highly regarded trait.

You said in another post Bunny that people find it refereshing. Generally I would imagine that people find honesty refreshing, when its put across in a mature way. Unfortunately yours reeks of narrow mindedness and aggression. As someone else said in an earlier post, its quite a turnoff.

For some bizarre reason you seem to enjoy taking ownership of that 'reputation'. Personally its not one I would be proud to have *shrugs* but whatever floats your boat.

I can't be arsed hanging, drawing or quartering you. Your points show how ignorant you are in this matter. And yes I have the balls to say it.

What astounds me is that you constantly fight the narrow mindedness that some people have with regards to switches, yet here you are displaying a similar contempt for people who enjoy online relationships.

Oh and don't call people bitches eh.....its not nice.

 

[intothewoods]

I think a point that has been missed in the brouhaha is that it wasn't so much the OP's post, but several posters' reaction to it thereafter. I was really bothered by several posts that behaved as if this guy had entered into a D/s relationship with the OP and a requirement of that relationshp was showing her off on cam.

To me, the first question isn't, gee is this guy Dom material, but who is he, is he safe, are you going to meet him, does he want to pursue a relationship or was this just fun, etc. I really didn't like the leap from this incident to a negotiated D/s relationship.

And to be clear, heck no, I don't believe you must have a D/s relationship to post here. I just want what we're talking about to be clear before we all give advice.

 

[RJMasters]

lol @ BB. I don't tip toe around any issue. I am sure that for you, IT IS NOT FUCKING REAL, for those who also hold the same view about online relationships.

As for my outlook on things, I don't think you or anyone else has the right to tell me what is or what isn't real. And you certainly don't have the right to tell me that my pursuit of my own happiness in whatever medium I choose is phony or fake.

I don't give a ratz ass if you have ten times the experience as me, I am not comparing my experiences to yours in order to validate them, nor should anyone else. That would be like me saying that because I have been married for 22 years, that by comparison your short lived relationships thus far in life have not been real, and don’t argue, because I am a fucking expert on the matter and your just to stupid to know any better.(do you see how stupid and ridiculous that sounds?)

And while I am at it....you say you are not here trying to kiss anyone's ass...what a lie that is. You are obviously kissing the ass of a select group of people that you share this view with and who you keep referring to as the "bunch of people" who think the same way you do on this but just don't have the balls to say it.

I don't have a problem with people who take the view that online is not real to them, but I do have a problem when they try to force their opinion down others throats and be assholes about it. Its nothing but elitist type behavior.

I don't care how stubborn you get BB, no two people are alike, and you do not know everything. Human beings are complex creatures capable of differing levels of intelligence and emotional needs. Where you might not be able to reconcile your BDSM needs inside of an online medium, it doesn’t mean that others cannot.

As far as draw and quartering you, why would anyone want to do that? You do such a thorough job of it yourself I don’t think anyone else has a chance to improving on it.

 

[Betticus]

Me and RJ are gonna go get a steak and a beer someday.

 

[RJMasters]

Me and RJ are gonna go get a steak and a beer someday.

I'm in Southern ca and know some great steak and beer places, or the next time you head to Las vegas let me know and maybe I can take a jaunt out that way.

 

[Betticus]

I'm in Southern ca and know some great steak and beer places, or the next time you head to Las vegas let me know and maybe I can take a jaunt out that way.

One of my roomies is going to be in L.A. playing in a club called Avalon on the 12th of this month. They won a bodog sponsored band battle thing.

I have been kind of toying with the idea of going out but the IRS is still on my ass.

Damn IRS.

 

[RJMasters]

One of my roomies is going to be in L.A. playing in a club called Avalon on the 12th of this month. They won a bodog sponsored band battle thing.

I have been kind of toying with the idea of going out but the IRS is still on my ass.

Damn IRS.

If you make it, let me know and we'll make it happen.

Sorry for the hyjack, but its steak and beer after all

 

[Betticus]

If you make it, let me know and we'll make it happen.

Sorry for the hyjack, but its steak and beer after all

Yes, steak and beer.

Speaking of which, I'm going to go crazy if another girl who owns her own brewery and ranch and bbq joint messages me applying to be my subbie.

I clearly stated that I am not drinking for the entire year!

I don't think there is a thread here that doesn't eventually get hijacked.

 

[Primalex]

These aren't just any frivolous b/s chat rooms where I learn. They are BDSM lifestyle discussion rooms where real time serious topics are discussed and debated. By people who DO live this stuff everyday.

yada yada yada


Even if you hang around all your life in a pub with pilots, you still have no fucking clue how it is like to fly a plane.


(This is no reason for the pilots to belittle the visitor though.)

 

[JupitersGirl]

yada yada yada


Even if you hang around all your life in a pub with pilots, you still have no fucking clue how it is like to fly a plane.


(This is no reason for the pilots to belittle the visitor though.)

Don't pilots learn to fly using simulators?

 

[Primalex]

Don't pilots learn to fly using simulators?

Sure, but they don't believe this is the real thing.

(http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=26261259&postcount=26, last paragraph for further details)

 

[JupitersGirl]

Sure, but they don't believe this is the real thing.

(http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=26261259&postcount=26, last paragraph for further details)

We must have read her posts differently. I got the impression that she was well aware that she was in a chat room.

 

[Primalex]

We must have read her posts differently. I got the impression that she was well aware that she was in a chat room.

but not well aware that she was only in a chat room.

 

[JupitersGirl]

but not well aware that she was only in a chat room.

I am expressing my opinions only on a message board, but I don't consider that to mean that they are any less valid than in real life or that anyone else has to agree with them.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Yanno, when someone is that touchy about their age they have to try and invalidate the experience of everyone on the board and claim to have more experience, they (yes I mean you BB) have huge issues of their own they need to look at and deal with...might I suggest insecurity being one which fuels this all encompassing rage you exhibit across the board and toward all except your closest friends when you are in such a mood? I fail to see how anyone who dabbles in it on a casual basis (as in dating occasionally someone who will participate with them...well not even dating) can claim to have more experience than someone who has actually lived it 24/7 for years in close to or in double figures, or been seriously playing on a regular basis for several years as some have around here and elsewhere...it just doesn't compute in logical terms alone...do the math. You might not think it has anything to do with years, but there is a fact of sheer figures which cannot be denied, and is usually reflected in the maturity those people display when addressing others and interacting on the board...you might also note that those people can and do apologise when they have made a mistake or had a bad day. I see no such maturity in you and your actions, but a lot of instability, arrogance and insecurity.

Add to that, mere actions IMHO can be carried out by anyone with a flogger and the desire or need to do so..no talent or experience in that...understanding and carrying that to a deeper level where the deepest of emotions and the psyche are seriously engaged, responsibility assumed, and a full relationship shared with another for more than the blink of an eye, and it can't compete..and no I am not making it a competition, you did that over and over with your words and comparisons. What saddens me is you BB are one of the most prevalent who posts constantly about 'subbier than thou' attitudes and yet it is you it comes from above and beyond anyone else. Anyone here posts about their experience and opinions and you imediately start posting across the threads about 'subbier than thou' attitudes...IOW, you don't feel anyone has a right to an opinion except you, no-one has experience as much as you, no-one knows as much as you, no-one is as important as you...did you start at 3yo or something?!! The reality is you can be the greatest PYL/pyl on earth in terms of practical experience, but it matters naught if you exhibit an air of superiority and arrogance to the point you cannot interact and relate to other people, instead making them sidestep around you in search of someone more down to earth and real.

All your words show me is that you have serious issues, and your immaturity in general terms all foreshadow your words and actions and prevent you from ever growing beyond this point in your life or D/s as long as you constantly seek to alienate and see it as a victory to be called a bitch. It is further evident in your statement yesterday that you would rather be called a bitch than a hypocrite...do you honestly see those as the only 2 options you have when you interact with others? And didn't you post in another thread that more than one guy had left your bed for videos and computer games and you wondered why? Could it have something to do with your attitude or perhaps your superior experience made them too insecure to stay in the same room so they chose an easier and more fun option? Personally I am done with this from where you stand, whether you choose to take a look at yourself and your behaviour is entirely up to you but you might find by doing so it could enrich your life tenfold, not to mention your D/s.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Me and RJ are gonna go get a steak and a beer someday.

Now I wish I could join you both in that...minus the beer.

Catalina

 

[kushielstoy]

Sighing….Takes another sip of her coffee pissed that she has no cream

Ok. I signed on to this community to learn, evolve and grow. I think that most of us at some point in our lives have felt different, alone and a deep yearning for a place to be accepted and understood.

I BELIEVE that this arena is a place for those of use with a certain edge to our desires to gather and exchange idea, opinions and beliefs. Like the OP I have been engaged in behavior that is so out side my NORMAL patterns. I have been having phone sex with a guy I met online from a local listing 4 weeks ago. ( LOL, most of it has been BETTER than my previous r/l partners!!!)

I started sending him pics at his request 2 weeks ago. Sending the pics makes me fell slutty, sexy, dirty, very horny, wanton, nasty, AND wanted, beautiful, and desired. I Also feel scared, confused, overwhelmed, and unsure.

I have learned a lot about my boundaries from this experience. Enough to know that I want to explore further with him in real time. Enough that I went an bought my first nipple clamps last night. Enough to keep reading and posting on these forums.

My point being that I am learning and evolving. We all are. Whether it is online or r/l does not diminish the opportunity to learn. I can empathize with the Op with the morning after blues. I still have them every time I send my pics to this guy.

But HOW can I explore my submissiveness, if I don’t relinquish my control to another? AND in learning to give up that control to another, at what point does my internal safety net say stop? Well that is why they call it practice...

What I have learned is that well, I wont send him face shots, I asked him to promise not to share them. (who knows, right?) and I have learned that I have a exhibitionists streak to me that I never knew about!

In my initial reply to the OP I talked about communication and respect.
I also posed the question….

What Have You Learned from your experience?

 

[RJMasters]

but not well aware that she was only in a chat room.

I got a cpl of questions and comments for you Primalex.

A man and woman who have been friends online in a chatroom for about 4 months one night begin to flirt heavily and one thing leads to another. Now due to the fact that they are both somewhat kinked towards D/s in their own personal sexuality, their online encounter also begins to evolve in that direction.

He takes an aggressive role in the situation, and she is quite willing to yeild herself to his demands.

He tells her to masturbate, and she obeys.


Though I will agree that this is not the same as them being face to face while this happens, I still see this as an encounter that was mutual consenting, it had elements of power exchange in it, it was sexual in nature, and she did actually submit to his command.

In what way is this not a real experience?


I keep hearing people say over and over again that online is not real and what is being said is that it is devoid of "real expereince".

Did the man imagine that he gave the woman sexual commands he expected her to do for him? Did the woman imagine that she consented and yeilded her body sexually and obeyed what he asked?

You see, IMO you can argue that the expereince may have be different than a RL expereince, but what you can't say is that they have "no real" expereince. Because what happened really did happen.

What you can say is that she never has had the expereince of a man standing over her in real life and telling her to masturbate, but you can't say she has never masturbated because she was told to and then obeyed. I also don't think you can say that she is not able to claim she felt that she submitted. I don't think you can say that the Dom which gave the commands didn't feel the feeling of dominating the woman. Pretty much all you can say for sure is that it isn't what you might conisder a real expereince because it wouldn't work for you.

I think that just as people want to try to say what is a "real" Dom or what is a "real" submissive, also comes this notion of what is "real" expereince.

I think it is a gross oversight to summarily dismiss any and all online activity as not being "real" expereinces. And quite frankly there are often times when someone who is in RL who has all the expereince in person, cannot for the life of them help someone who is dealing with aspects of a long distance relationship because....lol they just don't have that type of expereince.

 

[EmpressFi]

Me and RJ are gonna go get a steak and a beer someday.

Now I wish I could join you both in that...minus the beer.

Catalina

*raises hand* ummm could I just tag along for the beer?

 

[kushielstoy]

Newbie says......

*raises hand* ummm could I just tag along for the beer?

I just made it to Experienced!!! But I'm not really.

Can I come and sit quietly and listen?

Kind of like a real life lurker?
So much to learn..........

 

[catalina_francisco]

My point being that I am learning and evolving. We all are. Whether it is online or r/l does not diminish the opportunity to learn.

What I have learned is that well, I wont send him face shots, I asked him to promise not to share them. (who knows, right?) and I have learned that I have a voyeuristic streak to me that I never knew about!

Phew, I am so glad you are not sending face shots at this point. What might feel good in the moment can turn disastrous all to quick in the wrong hands.

It is true we are all learning. I think if we stop growing and learning, we have lost an important facet to our lives and relationships. People change constantly, so even if in a stable relationship such as we are, there are changes and a need to adjust to those changes and incorporate them into daily life. IMO, that is what makes it a lot of fun and prevents things from becoming stale and boring.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

*raises hand* ummm could I just tag along for the beer?

LOL, that would be cool...I'll have the steak, you the beer, all in all only one meal!! But would they let us tag along I wonder?

Catalina:catroar