I want too, but I know better

[BiBunny]

It's a question because the OP had a question to ask.

I bow to the superior reading comprehension skills of everyone else in this forum. I've read the OP half a dozen times, and I still don't understand the point. The additional posts only mystified me even more. I feel like I'm in some alternate universe where everyone understands non-sequitor after non-sequitor but me.

My original question still stands, though. Chatroom. No relationship between the people in question. Why, then, does it matter?

 

[JMohegan]

Well, see, this is why I don't understand this thread. There's no relationship. And it's in a chatroom. Why, then, is it even a question?

It's like saying, "I read about food, and I don't even have a kitchen, but I want everyone to call me a chef. Is that wrong?"

Shit, this whole thing is so non-sequitor that I think I'll just stop while I'm ahead.

Reading the opening post, I'd say she asked questions here because she was confused and worried about something.

For the second time this week, I ask: Since when is a D/s relationship a prerequisite for posting questions or comments on this board?

 

[BiBunny]

Reading the opening post, I'd say she asked questions here because she was confused and worried about something.

For the second time this week, I ask: Since when is a D/s relationship a prerequisite for posting questions or comments on this board?

It's not, and I agree that it shouldn't be. It's just that she appears to be asking a question about a "relationship," and then she says it's not a relationship. So, again, huh?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I wasn't trying to but I must say it's very fetching on you Miss Catalina!

LOL, well I like to blush lower down usually. Bottom line is I get tired of this debate, and in some respects it seems elitist, which goes on continually about online versus flesh to flesh. Yes, there are differences, and I also am not in favour of people who post about their spanking experiences etc., when they actually are really talking about their virtual spanks....goodness knows I have been hauled over the coals more than once for questioning the wisdom of someone talking as if they have years of flesh to flesh experience when they have none, and making sure others know it is not based on actual experience but assumptions of how it would feel etc.

But I also get tired of the view that people who have only online experience are not going to have much to offer initially when they get face to face with a real PYL. I well remember my first hands on RL experience, and I was black and blue from head to toe for 2 weeks, and happy...it was the PYL who had a minor breakdown over the damage he caused and he had been in the lifestyle as a hard player and both sub and Dominant for many years. I had thought I would love hard play, and yes I did and I didn't ask for it to stop.

My second experience was much the same in terms of endurance and marking, and once again was with a several years lifestyle PYL. Third experience involved a single tail whip (after several other implements had been used), and not lightly. If I hadn't had some online experience in terms of being guided and learning, I daresay I might have felt I had been abused, or chickened out after the first 10 minutes. I also might have agreed to be collared by the first, and every subsequent PYL who thought it a good idea. Fortunately by that stage I knew enough to know I did not have to be collared, I did not have to submit, I did not have to have a relationship to be topped, and I did have a safeword if I so wished to use it.

Catalina

 

[EmpressFi]

Reading the opening post, I'd say she asked questions here because she was confused and worried about something.

For the second time this week, I ask: Since when is a D/s relationship a prerequisite for posting questions or comments on this board?

Apparently some would answer that one as, well this IS a BDSM board, why on earth would anyone post here if it werent part of the picture.

Although, I think that's a bunch of bull and agree with you JM

 

[FurryFury]

I bow to the superior reading comprehension skills of everyone else in this forum. I've read the OP half a dozen times, and I still don't understand the point. The additional posts only mystified me even more. I feel like I'm in some alternate universe where everyone understands non-sequitor after non-sequitor but me.

My original question still stands, though. Chatroom. No relationship between the people in question. Why, then, does it matter?

I've almost always enjoyed your posts and liked you, Bi Bunny. I don't understand why this thread is such a problem. To me this thread couldn't be simpler. It matters, because it matters to the OP.

If you don't understand it that's fine. It doesn't mean you have come in the thread to start putting the lady down.

I may not play online anymore. That's how I started and I'm damned glad I did. It lead to some great things for me and my husband. I will never be comfortable with folks putting down online play just because they think they are so much better with play in real life.

Now that I've played some in real life, I'm glad I have but I would have never gotten to that point if I had not explored online. If you can't understand online play that's fine. That also doesn't mean you have to put it down.

 

[catalina_francisco]

My original question still stands, though. Chatroom. No relationship between the people in question. Why, then, does it matter?

Might I suggest it matters because it matters to the OP who has been honest about her lack of experience and come to people she expects may be able to offer some objective advice based on their experiences and knowledge. I don't see that as a bad thing, or reason to get agressive. As to whether it is a relationship because 2 people were in a chatroom...though I have never been in one, I have heard of people in relationships participating in such things together, as well as people meeting in the chatroom and forming a relationship...something the OP thought may have been the way it was headed with this person before the confusion.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've almost always enjoyed your posts and liked you, Bi Bunny. I don't understand why this thread is such a problem. To me this thread couldn't be simpler. It matters, because it matters to the OP.

If you don't understand it that's fine. It doesn't mean you have come in the thread to start putting the lady down.

I may not play online anymore. That's how I started and I'm damned glad I did. It lead to some great things for me and my husband. I will never be comfortable with folks putting down online play just because they think they are so much better with play in real life.

Now that I've played some in real life, I'm glad I have but I would have never gotten to that point if I had not explored online. If you can't understand online play that's fine. That also doesn't mean you have to put it down.

OK, you have my PC bugged!!

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

Semantics aside, why disparage it? Why bother to express your "disdain for online-only time and again"?

If she were offering tips on cropping or rope, your disgust would be understandable. But she's not.

Actually, the OP has posted offering comment and advice specifically on the merits of claimed experience, as she relates in a post above. I have a problem with this sort of dishonest presentation. I've seen it more than once from folks that have, at one point, admitted to having no practical experience, yet, at other points, offer tips on various forms of topping. The is the first issue I have with it.

The caveat here is that all people involved in online-only are not like that. Plenty of folks that are strictly online make it clear. The ones that are not so clear, bother me.

The second issue, and this is a more prevalent one, is with those who somehow equate online-only to face-to-face. They are two entirely different animals, and similar only in the words used, and some of the emotional content. They are not equivalent in my eyes, in the the slightest. Still, I've seen, on these very boards, People say that online and offline are the same. I take issue with that.

Again, not everyone in the online-only world is guilty of this, but it is certainly not all that uncommon.

The final issue is the simplest. It does nothing for me. Yep, I've tried it. This is less a matter of disdain, and more a matter of one more reason why I look at it and find it "less real", if you will, than face-to-face.

I have no problem with people that do online-only. Plenty of folks out there simply have no other choice. I sympathise. I take exception when claims of equivalence occur, and when people claim credibility they do not possess. The latter is not endemic solely to online-only, but I find it offensive enough (and unfortunately common enough) to merit inclusion.



As an aside, the disgust you see here from me is a result of the dishonesty mentioned in my initial post to this thread.

 

[BiBunny]

Actually, the OP has posted offering comment and advice specifically on the merits of claimed experience, as she relates in a post above. I have a problem with this sort of dishonest presentation. I've seen it more than once from folks that have, at one point, admitted to having no practical experience, yet, at other points, offer tips on various forms of topping. The is the first issue I have with it.

The caveat here is that all people involved in online-only are not like that. Plenty of folks that are strictly online make it clear. The ones that are not so clear, bother me.

The second issue, and this is a more prevalent one, is with those who somehow equate online-only to face-to-face. They are two entirely different animals, and similar only in the words used, and some of the emotional content. They are not equivalent in my eyes, in the the slightest. Still, I've seen, on these very boards, People say that online and offline are the same. I take issue with that.

Again, not everyone in the online-only world is guilty of this, but it is certainly not all that uncommon.

The final issue is the simplest. It does nothing for me. Yep, I've tried it. This is less a matter of disdain, and more a matter of one more reason why I look at it and find it "less real", if you will, than face-to-face.

I have no problem with people that do online-only. Plenty of folks out there simply have no other choice. I sympathise. I take exception when claims of equivalence occur, and when people claim credibility they do not possess. The latter is not endemic solely to online-only, but I find it offensive enough (and unfortunately common enough) to merit inclusion.



As an aside, the disgust you see here from me is a result of the dishonesty mentioned in my initial post to this thread.

Thank you. You said it better than I.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Actually, the OP has posted offering comment and advice specifically on the merits of claimed experience, as she relates in a post above. I have a problem with this sort of dishonest presentation. I've seen it more than once from folks that have, at one point, admitted to having no practical experience, yet, at other points, offer tips on various forms of topping. The is the first issue I have with it.

The caveat here is that all people involved in online-only are not like that. Plenty of folks that are strictly online make it clear. The ones that are not so clear, bother me.

The second issue, and this is a more prevalent one, is with those who somehow equate online-only to face-to-face. They are two entirely different animals, and similar only in the words used, and some of the emotional content. They are not equivalent in my eyes, in the the slightest. Still, I've seen, on these very boards, People say that online and offline are the same. I take issue with that.

Again, not everyone in the online-only world is guilty of this, but it is certainly not all that uncommon.

The final issue is the simplest. It does nothing for me. Yep, I've tried it. This is less a matter of disdain, and more a matter of one more reason why I look at it and find it "less real", if you will, than face-to-face.

I have no problem with people that do online-only. Plenty of folks out there simply have no other choice. I sympathise. I take exception when claims of equivalence occur, and when people claim credibility they do not possess. The latter is not endemic solely to online-only, but I find it offensive enough (and unfortunately common enough) to merit inclusion.



As an aside, the disgust you see here from me is a result of the dishonesty mentioned in my initial post to this thread.

OK. I usually have a lot of time for you Homburg, but this is crap. You are not in a relationship with this girl, and yet you are ready to judge her, find her guilty, express your disgust with her, dismiss her on the grounds of dishonesty and put her down based on one thing which you see as dishonesty....pity her if she was in a relationship with you!! Did you actually read her post fully? She said she had posted as if she had performed cock worship on her online Master, but hadn't, but she had performed the described cock worship in RL with others so was not describing an act she had no idea of what it was like. Sheesh, I hardly think anyone is going to run off and follow her cock worship directions and die...it wasn't fire play, knife play or branding, it was sucking cock for crying out loud.

On top of that she apologised, which IMO she didn't really need to as she said it was the only time she had written and inferred it was real, and in part it was, just not with the preson she lead people to believe it was. So your indignation she claimed experience she didn't have really doesn't hold water as she had performed that act, and yet she is still not good enough for you to bother with in an online forum? Didn't you ever ask advice here, make mistakes, fuck up? If not, then by all means feel free to cast your stones as you are above all of us.

Catalina

 

[nh23]

wow so many debates to be dredged up in one post.. submission is a gift.. online isnt real..

cant we agree to disagree on a few issues? Put away the droll sarcastic drizzle of how could you be stupid enough to think <insert random thought here>? You'd think with all the kink in the world that we would be the ones who could express our differences without dampening the spirit of those who happen to disagree with how we feel about things.

It really is sad..and disheartening

And it's the way the world works. Sometimes people need a reality check. Codding someone doesn't always help. I'm sure you were talking about my post in part, but after re reading it I really don't think I was all that rude. I was being honest and real which I think lacks here at times because everyone is too busy trying to kiss everyone's ass instead of being honest about their opinions. The post came off to me as a bit over dramatic and I was trying to get her to realize she needed to calm down and relax a bit before she gets hurt in R/L.

As far as my comment on submission as a gift..There was a point to that. I won't state how I really feel about that because it's not really relevant at this point, but if it is so important to her and something to be cherished..and I respect some people feel that way..Maybe she should pay more attention to her actions..She took something she obviously feels is special and made a joke of it in a chatroom. Once again..a point so that maybe she would get a reality check before she ends up hurt.

 

[Homburg]

OK. I usually have a lot of time for you Homburg, but this is crap. You are not in a relationship with this girl, and yet you are ready to judge her, find her guilty, express your disgust with her, dismiss her on the grounds of dishonesty and put her down based on one thing which you see as dishonesty....pity her if she was in a relationship with you!! Did you actually read her post fully? She said she had posted as if she had performed cock worship on her online Master, but hadn't, but she had performed the described cock worship in RL with others so was not describing an act she had no idea of what it was like. Sheesh, I hardly think anyone is going to run off and follow her cock worship directions and die...it wasn't fire play, knife play or branding, it was sucking cock for crying out loud.

On top of that she apologised, which IMO she didn't really need to as she said it was the only time she had written and inferred it was real, and in part it was, just not with the preson she lead people to believe it was. So your indignation she claimed experience she didn't have really doesn't hold water as she had performed that act, and yet she is still not good enough for you to bother with in an online forum? Didn't you ever ask advice here, make mistakes, fuck up? If not, then by all means feel free to cast your stones as you are above all of us.

Catalina

Jack was asking where the disgust came from. I was offering a reason for it, Cat. That's all.

At this point, the message is getting lost in noise and assumption. I did not "find her guilty". She admitted to it. I did not "put her down". I expressed disgust with the dishonesty.

But as to relating my posts to hers, I've made no secret of how much experience I have, and am the first person to admit when I'm clueless about something, or offering commentary based on limited personal knowledge.

 

[EmpressFi]

And it's the way the world works. Sometimes people need a reality check. Codding someone doesn't always help. I'm sure you were talking about my post in part, but after re reading it I really don't think I was all that rude. I was being honest and real which I think lacks here at times because everyone is too busy trying to kiss everyone's ass instead of being honest about their opinions. The post came off to me as a bit over dramatic and I was trying to get her to realize she needed to calm down and relax a bit before she gets hurt in R/L.

As far as my comment on submission as a gift..There was a point to that. I won't state how I really feel about that because it's not really relevant at this point, but if it is so important to her and something to be cherished..and I respect some people feel that way..Maybe she should pay more attention to her actions..She took something she obviously feels is special and made a joke of it in a chatroom. Once again..a point so that maybe she would get a reality check before she ends up hurt.

Maybe your world.. but not everyone delivers a reality check in the rudest most demeaning, belittling way possible. You have a choice when telling someone the honest truth or when disagreeing with someone. You have a choice of HOW you get your point across. Some choose to explain themselves, others choose to hide behind poisonous sarcasm and ridicule.

For example, yes, we know how many feel about the "submission is a gift thing", and yes, I agree with the points you made. However, there's a difference between, "I have a differing opinion about the matter, however if you felt it was a gift, maybe you should have paid more attention to your actions..." etc. etc. and, something that comes across as, "Submission as a gift, everyone knows what a joke I think THAT is so I wont say it again..." or starting a thread mocking those who do feel that way.

 

[BiBunny]

And it's the way the world works. Sometimes people need a reality check. Codding someone doesn't always help. I'm sure you were talking about my post in part, but after re reading it I really don't think I was all that rude. I was being honest and real which I think lacks here at times because everyone is too busy trying to kiss everyone's ass instead of being honest about their opinions. The post came off to me as a bit over dramatic and I was trying to get her to realize she needed to calm down and relax a bit before she gets hurt in R/L.

As far as my comment on submission as a gift..There was a point to that. I won't state how I really feel about that because it's not really relevant at this point, but if it is so important to her and something to be cherished..and I respect some people feel that way..Maybe she should pay more attention to her actions..She took something she obviously feels is special and made a joke of it in a chatroom. Once again..a point so that maybe she would get a reality check before she ends up hurt.

Yes, yes, yes on the reality check. Hence my comment about "magical thinking."

Or would you pervs understand a pic of the Emperor being butt-assed nekkid better?

 

[nh23]

Maybe your world.. but not everyone delivers a reality check in the rudest most demeaning, belittling way possible. You have a choice when telling someone the honest truth or when disagreeing with someone. You have a choice of HOW you get your point across. Some choose to explain themselves, others choose to hide behind poisonous sarcasm and ridicule.

For example, yes, we know how many feel about the "submission is a gift thing", and yes, I agree with the points you made. However, there's a difference between, "I have a differing opinion about the matter, however if you felt it was a gift, maybe you should have paid more attention to your actions..." etc. etc. and, something that comes across as, "Submission as a gift, everyone knows what a joke I think THAT is so I wont say it again..." or starting a thread mocking those who do feel that way.

Haha somehow I knew that thread was going to come up. Check out the wiki link I put in it. May explain things a little better. Maybe I don't articulate the way I should. Maybe my choice of words aren't what you think they should be..but you know what it's me. Choose not to like me and ignore my words if I bother you so much. I don't have the magic ability some people have to be someone other than myself. If that comes off as a bitch to you ,so be it. I don't mind.

 

[BiBunny]

Haha somehow I knew that thread was going to come up. Check out the wiki link I put in it. May explain things a little better. Maybe I don't articulate the way I should. Maybe my choice of words aren't what you think they should be..but you know what it's me. Choose not to like me and ignore my words if I bother you so much. I don't have the magic ability some people have to be someone other than myself. If that comes off as a bitch to you ,so be it. I don't mind.

Ditto. I don't pull punches, and there a lot of people who find a tolerates-no-bullshit attitude to be refreshing. I'd rather be a bitch than a goddamned hypocrite.

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

Maybe your world.. but not everyone delivers a reality check in the rudest most demeaning, belittling way possible. You have a choice when telling someone the honest truth or when disagreeing with someone. You have a choice of HOW you get your point across. Some choose to explain themselves, others choose to hide behind poisonous sarcasm and ridicule.

I tend to agree and as much as I hate to wade into this thread I now find myself doing so. I have been self censoring all morning.

When people on this Board start taking these aggressive tactics I get extremely uncomfortable and I have no desire to participate. You're not only precluding the ones you apparently don't approve of, you're precluding others that don't function well in a hostile environment.

Please imagine the conflict when that involves people I genuinely like. It fosters an environment that appears for all intensive purposes to be commandeered by behavior I consider domineering of the worst kind.

As to Adakgirl, I give you credit for having the courage to admit you made mistakes. It was a credible and respected gesture. I hope that the developments on this thread will not preclude your future comfort levels and you will return to present issues to the Board as you explore .

Miss Fury & Mr Mohegan, you also have my respect for taking a stance on this, I hope you'll forgive me the terms of expression I have chosen. Cat you also have my support, not a day goes by that I envy your responsibility to the Board Community .

Now as my hands are shaking, a sure sign of my emotive reaction to what has erupted on this thread, I think it's best I step aside. I will not be commenting on this thread any further .

 

[FurryFury]

OK, you have my PC bugged!!

Catalina

LOL!

One must keep tabs of course . . .

Mwahahaha!

 

[intothewoods]

...I did give him the note and asked him to please read it before I went into his room last night. He understood it, was accepting of it and he appreciated my being honest about how I felt. He told me he understood he had much to learn and hoped we could both learn and work through it together. I think he regretted not so much that he had me entertain him and the room, (I could certainly have said no and left) but that he was moving way to fast and being much too shallow. Last night he treated me gently and respectfully in his room.
Yep, I do think he derives great pleasure in showing me off to strangers and friends. As do I for a matter fact. No, we did not type in fantasy scenarios like *takes off shirt and dances around* I hate that crap. He asked me to show and gave me directions PMing me and by speaking on mic. I carried them out on r/l real time cam. I did type in the room that he was my Master and I adored him when he directed me too.
He think reveled in his role-play Mastery over me and my obedience and submission to him in front of others made him feel like the king of the world.
I told him that if he wanted to role play, fine I would go along with that, but only as long as I felt comfortable doing so. He knows that it was not real. He does want a relationship and he does want to eventually go r/t. He told me he would answer any questions about him and his life tonight and he would commit to spending time building a relationship with me.
I need to read your replies again and I will attempt to answer the questions some of you put to me, I just am out of time right now. Reading your thoughts and advice on this helped me a lot. I do appreciate all of you.

Thanks for coming back because the point I was trying to make was, hey, let's hang on, did this happen on a webcam, or typing it out.

It sounds like the way you two are going about things works for where you're both at, and that's absolutely fine.

My only caution about developing an online relationship is this: if you plan on meeting, or giving any personal information, take precautions to make sure the person is who he says he is, and that he is safe.

 

[JupitersGirl]

I tend to agree and as much as I hate to wade into this thread I now find myself doing so. I have been self censoring all morning.

When people on this Board start taking these aggressive tactics I get extremely uncomfortable and I have no desire to participate. You're not only precluding the ones you apparently don't approve of, you're precluding others that don't function well in a hostile environment.

Please imagine the conflict when that involves people I genuinely like. It fosters an environment that appears for all intensive purposes to be commandeered by behavior I consider domineering of the worst kind.

As to Adakgirl, I give you credit for having the courage to admit you made mistakes. It was a credible and respected gesture. I hope that the developments on this thread will not preclude your future comfort levels and you will return to present issues to the Board as you explore .

Miss Fury & Mr Mohegan, you also have my respect for taking a stance on this, I hope you'll forgive me the terms of expression I have chosen. Cat you also have my support, not a day goes by that I envy your responsibility to the Board Community .

Now as my hands are shaking, a sure sign of my emotive reaction to what has erupted on this thread, I think it's best I step aside. I will not be commenting on this thread any further .

Thank you for articulating your thoughts (and mine) so well, Miss Rebecca.

 

[FurryFury]

Thanks for coming back because the point I was trying to make was, hey, let's hang on, did this happen on a webcam, or typing it out.

It sounds like the way you two are going about things works for where you're both at, and that's absolutely fine.

My only caution about developing an online relationship is this: if you plan on meeting, or giving any personal information, take precautions to make sure the person is who he says he is, and that he is safe.

Good and very important points!

BTW, I'd have preferred it to have been typing There is no way I could ever cam. Thankfully both parties and the others in the room are into it. Each to their own! That's what makes the world so interesting.

 

[ecstaticsub]

The last few pages of this thread have me so pissed off I have to comment

On-line is NOT "magical thinking" to those of us who do get something out of it. For BiBunny and Homburg and anyone else who doesn't get it let me try to explain. Not every one does BDSM the way you choose to. I am a submissive, I submit. Not everyone needs impact play, or bondage, or pain, torture etc in their relationship. I don't sit in front of a cam I put nipple clamps on myself or flog myself or any other kind of physical self-inflicted pain/sensation. But I do obey, I do submit--24/7. This mental surrender is much much more powerful and rewarding than any impact play alone that I have done. Mental surrender can be done long distance when you have total trust. I do crave a good flogging etc on occasion but it is not the main part of my relationship. We do it when we are together, but it is far from the main attraction. I am not, or ever could be a bottom. I personally don't get how someone could get anything out of Topping or bottoming with someone they do not have a relationship with. However, I recognize that some people do enjoy it and I am far too polite to sarcastically or rudely put down how they choose to enjoy their kink.



...now I'll collect my mail and go on with my life...

 

[FungiUg]

Okay, maybe I can add something to the stew here.

To summarise what I read in the original post, she had a fun flirty time with a guy, decided she'd like to turn some of that fantasy fun into reality, and contacted the guy about it.

So it was online? Big hairy deal. It could have been at a party, at a pub, at a picnic in the park. What does it matter?

So she's not an experienced submissive. Y'know, I bet all submissives were at one time or another inexperienced. Somehow I just get that. Everyone has to start somewhere.

So she's done a lot of reading about D/s. No one claimed reading about it is the same as doing it. But you can read about tiramisu and think "My, that sounds yummy! I'm gonna go out and try some!" Reading about it isn't the same, I reiterate. But it's still good!

So she made a few mistakes along the way. Big deal. She's human. We're not?

The arguments about whether her submission is a gift (or not), about whether online is real (or not) are basically beside the point. The point is she contacted a guy about the possibility of turning a fantasy into a reality, and how best to go about it. From what I saw, it amounted to "Are you actually keen? If so, how and when?" And she was asking us if we thought she had done the right thing.

Strangely, I saw that someone did actually answer the question. Yes, communication is exactly the right thing. Either you will find out he's not keen (worth knowing before you get more emotionally involved) or you will find out he is. If you don't communicate, it's all up in the air and still in the fantasy stage.

Turning a fantasy into reality (they are different, she never claimed they were the same, btw) is hard work and scary. But when it happens, the rewards are wonderful. So I for one am not going to judge, and rather I am going to say I wish the poster the best of luck!

 

[minx1]

Strangely, I saw that someone did actually answer the question. Yes, communication is exactly the right thing. Either you will find out he's not keen (worth knowing before you get more emotionally involved) or you will find out he is. If you don't communicate, it's all up in the air and still in the fantasy stage.

was it me, was it me??!! Let it be me *giggles*

No ones said _anything_ about my post. must have been even crappier than normal *laugh*