I'll read yours...

[SimonBrooke]

I'm intrigued by, and still mulling over, the way your unsympathetic narrator functioned in the story. His frustration brings an added emotional dimension to the story, beyond the tension inherent in borderline consensual encounters, and creates an atmosphere of voyeurism and a certain titillating frustration, because the reader is bound by his limitations and so we are constantly straining to see, hear, learn more.

Good! That's exactly what I was trying to get!

Jasmine's the tough one, for me, in that. I'd gathered that she's an open, sexual person from glimpses of her through the earlier part of the story, and that would explain her getting excited by, say, what would ordinarily be a shocking public display of clearly consensual sex. But for me, it doesn't explain her not showing any concern that John is threatening to rape Pat, at least early in the scene before it's more clear she's going along of her own free will.

Does Pat give consent? Do you feel that at any point in this scene Pat gives consent? Do you feel she consents to John taking her to bed afterwards? Clearly, by the time they go upstairs the following day for (implicitly) anal sex, she is consenting. But what I'm trying to do is make the action of my story mimic the action of the story Pat is failing to tell. I intended you to understand that she was raped - or at least, that the very least, John was deliberately walking that interesting and dangerous borderline between consenting and non-consenting sex.

In my mind, what is happening here is at least at first dominance against a submission which isn't explicitly or consciously either willing or unwilling. I think that rape is at least partly an ex post facto crime - you have been raped if, after sex, you feel you have been raped. If you don't feel you have been raped you haven't been raped. I think whether either partner actually says 'yes' or not may be legally significant but it isn't necessarily morally or emotionally significant.

John knows what he is doing; of that I have no doubt. John is a morally complex character capable of ruthlessness. And by the morning, Pat doesn't feel in the least raped. In my original longer draft of the story, Colin encounters them years later happily married to each other.

To be honest, I'd most like to get a critique of this, but it's the third chapter of a longer story (though I do think the chapter stands fairly well on its own), so I certainly don't mind if you'd prefer to have a look at the beginning.

I shall get onto it immediately; it may take me a few days, but I'll get it done.

And many thanks again!

 

[SimonBrooke]

Wow, thanks!

I As far as your story cationa i think it deserves only the highest praise. I only hope that the readers among us will review it as well. There was so much depth of emotion therein. This piece is beautiful and romantic and while it contained an element of BDSM I think it's only fitting that it be found in romance. I reccomend that everyone reading this thread check out this author.

Oh, wow, thank you! I really appreciate that. I'm currently struggling with the sequel to Catriona, which gets even darker, but is still a romance.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Hurt, Ch 01 (Nasha)

To be honest, I'd most like to get a critique of this, but it's the third chapter of a longer story (though I do think the chapter stands fairly well on its own), so I certainly don't mind if you'd prefer to have a look at the beginning.

I shall get onto it immediately; it may take me a few days, but I'll get it done.

And many thanks again!

First read through, impressions as I go:

'Levered the clutch'? Presumably this is what you would call a 'stick-shift' car, and, as we later learn it's a two seater, presumably sporty. But does one really lever a clutch?

Motorbikes are pretty heavy to push, even quarter of a mile. You might want to show this. On the benefit side, it's a good way to show us Vanka is physically fit and strong. But after pushing quarter of a mile in pouring rain, she would be drenched, whatever she was wearing. He's offer her towels, surely, perhaps a shower? I am not trying to put them in a 'sexy' situation here, just be practical. And probably something hot to drink, rather than alcohol? Wet through at night is presumably chilly even in southern California.

The garden, the alarm pad, the three door garage - all these seem to signal someone quite well off; but his initial reaction to her calling an ambulance seems to signal some sort of illegality (OK; all this explained later).

OK, scan error:

"I can do that, if you don't need lime."

"Why don't you sit down and let me make the drinks?"

"Alright." He gave her a slightly pained smile. "Maybe I'll go stick a couple band aids on. Glasses are there, in that cupboard next to the fridge. The liquor's there," he pointed toward the pantry. "Tonic's in the fridge. There might even be some lime juice, actually."

I stumbled over that quite badly. I didn't get that she had said the second speech ("Why don't you...") and had to back up and re-read it. It would have helped me there to have some indication of who was speaking. I at first thought that he had said all three things, and it didn't make sense.

Ahhh... yes, he's someone famous. Fine.

Typo:

After a hunt for tweezers and some sterilizingointment

'sterili[s|z]ing ointment'.

A minor nit:

It was almost a disappointment when she extracted the last piece of Hillcrest Blvd. from his knee, pressed a piece of Neosporin-laced gauze to the seeping flesh, and began wrapping him up like a mummy.

I find 'Hillcrest Blvd.' does not work for me in this context; I think you should spell it out. 'Hillcrest Boulevard', or however it's correctly spelled.

At the point of the first sexual touch, on the decking outside, I want to say how compelling you've made the lack of backstory you've given me. You've made me interested in what has brought each of these characters to this point - they both seem troubled. Particularly the woman's reaction to the prospect of being touched, at once desiring and repelled. I want to know what's going on here.

And WOW that first touch is sexy. Pressed against a railing, half restrained, unable to defend herself sexually, vulnerable. That most definitely works for me. The pressing her up against the wall a few minutes later works in the same way. The staring at her sex...

But in between... She touches his cock (even if through his clothes), and makes to fellate him. That's a very direct, sexual, thing for her to do, so early in an encounter with a stranger. Almost, it seems to me, a masculine thing. She's a different character to who I thought, up to this point, that she was. That's OK; you're revealing her to me, gradually.

You kind of say this, yourself, a moment later:

She couldn't stand this. It was too intimate. She'd never let a man use his mouth on her until they'd been together a while.

If she wouldn't let a man use his mouth on her, would she use hers on him? Yes, she might reasonably guess a man would be less sensitive about such things, less careful, less squeamish. But would she?

Continuity problem:

She tried to widen her stance, to spread her legs, hoping desperately to feel his tongue slide back, lathe over her wet sex. Fuck, she needed him to really eat her. But his embrace tightened, cinched her legs tight together...

But about five paragraphs earlier:

So quick. His hands. Her slacks unhooked, unzipped. His fingertips touched her hot, bare skin, slid down, catching the waistband of her slacks, then her panties in a single smooth gesture, and pulled them down mid-thigh.

She's got her jeans (which in this sort of situation are frustratingly awkward, stiff things) at mid thigh. No bondage gear devised by a medieval torturer could more effectively restrain her legs. She can't widen her stance whatever he does or doesn't do. You could use the constriction of her jeans to enhance this scene - she could try to kick them off and he could prevent her - but you can't ignore them.

Possible typo:

But then, fuck, god, yes, he pressed his open mouth to her, his lips sealed themselves against her soft, smooth flesh, and his slippery tongue pressed forward, between her lips, into her slit, lathing at last all her wet inner folds.

Do you mean '...laving at last...'? Lathing, as I understand it, involves very sharp chisels and is unlikely to be sexy!

OK, the second encounter is intriguing, but again you've got a continuity problem. He was earlier looking at her breasts; she's wearing a thin shirt, and no bra, and while she was dressing his wounds he was looking at them. Speaking as a man, I know about this; I've done it many times. If she has a wound dressing on her breast - particularly one that partially covers her nipple - there's no way he hasn't noticed it. Men may be inobservant about many things, but believe me we are not inobservant about breasts.

Your scene in the bed is very warm, very tender, and very real. And I completely believe in her coming to the point where she can't go on, although she wants and needs to. I've been there, with a woman. It felt very real.

I squirmed a bit at 'lavender dome'. Yes, OK, literally it's a good description. And maybe it wouldn't affect other people the same way. But 'lavender'?

I'm a bit of a sucker for repeating themes in stories. Should his first penetration of her be over that railing on the balcony where he first kissed her? Would that be more effective?

I love the way he looks at her body as he fucks her. That is so real, so much what men do (or at least what I do). I love the rhythm of your sentences, and the way you vary them; particularly when you get down to your one-word sentences. Don't over-do it, but what you're doing is great.

So, having read it, overall impressions...

This is very sweet romance, dealing with people who are realistically complex; with real psychology, real injuries (and I don't mean the physical ones), real backstory. They live. And the way they work together is beautiful and beautifully expressed; your writing is lovely, and I didn't find anything I thought was a weak point.

I suspect you're going to reveal to us more backstory about Vanka than just the breast cancer. Not that I'm suggesting that breast cancer is not devastating; my mother had it, and my little sister died of lung cancer. I understand a little of what cancer does to your self image. But at the same time cancer by itself doesn't account for the layered complexity of Vanka. I suspect already that I'm not going to like David.

You describe far more, and in far more specificity, than I would, particularly in your sex scenes. That isn't a fault, it's a stylistic difference. Normally when I get paragraphs of description of physical interaction - what body part is pressed into what body part - I get bored and skip ahead. I didn't here. I was engaged. But primarily I was engaged by the characters. This is great story-telling.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Hurt, Ch 02 (Nasha)

I'm still surprised at how sexually forward Vanka is. In the ten or twelve years she's been sexually mature[1], she's had four lovers; no one night stands, drunken shags, whatever. I find it surprising that she is prepared to take the sexual initiative so early and so blatantly. If she is this sexually forward, how is it that she's so relatively inexperienced? If she's prepared to go out and get sex, why hasn't she had more of it? The answer I suspect you're going to give me is 'because this is new behaviour for her, because she hasn't done it before'. But if at twenty-seven she really hasn't done it before I find it hard to believe she would be so full-on, so full of confidence. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but I'm not persuaded here. My willing suspension of disbelief is under strain.

Why is she wearing panties? If you were going to see someone in the explicit hope of getting fucked, would you? Again, I'm not talking about the conventions of erotic writing, I'm talking about real life. And I'm surprised.

Having said all that about her sexual forwardness, her fucking herself on him is very erotic - for a male reader, certainly. And the suggestion that she can orgasm so easily in this position is also erotic.

Again, in the conversation:

"So, Vanka. Where's this David of yours?"

"David?" She didn't remember telling him anything about David.

"Number four?"

Ah, yes. Some lingering feeling of loyalty poked her with guilt, hearing a man she'd fucked twice refer to David as 'number four.'

"He at home, waiting for you to get back from grocery shopping or work, or wherever he thinks you are?"

"That's a pretty opinion you seem to have of me."

I stumbled at the speech beginning 'He at home...' I first thought it was Vanka's speech, and that 'He' was a typo for 'He's'. Again, a little hint of who is speaking would have helped me.

It may be a cultural thing, but I didn't pick something up in the paragraph

When Galen pulled the car alongside the curb in front of Toys in
Babeland, and she saw rows of dildos and vibrators in a row spreading
across the expanse of storefront window like some surreal Technicolor
mountain range, she felt an unsettling confluence of relief and
apprehension trickling into her hot, pulsing veins. She looked
over. There was that grin. She was in.

What was she in? She's going to get fucked, certainly; you clearly mean that. But do you mean more? I'm not certain, and I'm uncomfortably not certain.

Talking about 'trying to take it all in' in a dildo store is open to unintended humour.

I love him making her tell him how she masturbates, in a semi-public space. it's very sexy. I like you don't tell us what they bought, that you make us anticipate. You could keep us anticipating longer...

This is only a few days later, right? All his gravel rash is scabbed up and tight? I race push bikes. I know what week-old gravel rash feels like. There are going to be a lot of things Galen really does not want to do.

And in conclusion...

I don't know where you're going with this piece. I don't know what you intended with this chapter. If it's just for erotic effect, it worked - the erotic effect was considerable; and the writing is graceful and assured. but I didn't get the feeling I knew either character any better at the end of it than I had at the beginning. Yes, I know Vanka has left David, but that's almost null information; it's implicit in Chapter one than Vanka is homeless and a bit lost. Will you take me somewhere new in Chapter three?

[1] Yes, I know we're supposed to pretend, on Literotica, that no-one has sex before they're eighteen; but in the real world a lot of people do. Nothing we've been told so far gives any clue as to how old Vanka was when she first had sex.

 

[Nasha]

Hurt Ch. 01

Wow. Thank you so, so much, Simon. You're really outdoing yourself, offering such an in-depth critique of not just one, but multiple chapters.

Thanks for pointing out all those wrong words, typos, inadequate indicators of who's speaking and egad, especially those continuity issues. Reminds me how incapable I am of seeing and comprehending my own writing umpteen revisions in.

First read through, impressions as I go:

Motorbikes are pretty heavy to push, even quarter of a mile. You might want to show this. On the benefit side, it's a good way to show us Vanka is physically fit and strong. But after pushing quarter of a mile in pouring rain, she would be drenched, whatever she was wearing. He's offer her towels, surely, perhaps a shower? I am not trying to put them in a 'sexy' situation here, just be practical. And probably something hot to drink, rather than alcohol? Wet through at night is presumably chilly even in southern California.

Excellent observations—I'll definitely address these issues in the next revision.

At the point of the first sexual touch, on the decking outside, I want to say how compelling you've made the lack of backstory you've given me. You've made me interested in what has brought each of these characters to this point - they both seem troubled. Particularly the woman's reaction to the prospect of being touched, at once desiring and repelled. I want to know what's going on here.

And WOW that first touch is sexy. Pressed against a railing, half restrained, unable to defend herself sexually, vulnerable. That most definitely works for me. The pressing her up against the wall a few minutes later works in the same way. The staring at her sex...

But in between... She touches his cock (even if through his clothes), and makes to fellate him. That's a very direct, sexual, thing for her to do, so early in an encounter with a stranger. Almost, it seems to me, a masculine thing. She's a different character to who I thought, up to this point, that she was. That's OK; you're revealing her to me, gradually.

You kind of say this, yourself, a moment later:

She couldn't stand this. It was too intimate. She'd never let a man use his mouth on her until they'd been together a while.

If she wouldn't let a man use his mouth on her, would she use hers on him? Yes, she might reasonably guess a man would be less sensitive about such things, less careful, less squeamish. But would she?

Yes, you're getting at a rather delicate balance I'm trying to achieve, between Vanka's reluctance and desire, which is wrapped up in a conflict between her wanting to surrender her control, and more, and instinctively trying to hold on to her power in this situation. So, her succumbing to her vulnerability, to the eroticism of a degree of fear is her way of exploring giving up her control to Galen. But doing so is a challenge to her self-esteem, to who she thinks she is, and in the moments when that gets to be too much for her, she tries to re-assert her control over herself, and over him. Offering to fellate him is a move to take control away from him—even though that act can be read as one of dominance on the part of the one receiving oral, and submission on the part of the one giving it (and that's how he interprets it, himself), it can feel very powerful, imposing that particular pleasure on a man, controlling it. That's why she's comfortable trying to go down on him, but reluctant to let him go down on her—when he performs oral sex on her, in a sense that's the pinnacle of vulnerability—in part because the physical pleasure is so one-sided, and in part because, for her, it's the ultimate exposure, having a man in such intimate proximity to her sex.

She also has mixed feelings about the import of the sort of encounter she's going into: she's aroused by the man and the situation, but she also feels there's something kind of gross about fucking someone she doesn't know, and who she assumes makes a habit of casually fucking strangers.

Vanka's sudden need to explore this new aspect of her sexuality is brought on by her fear that she has cancer: I haven't managed this as well as I mean to, but the first five chapters of the novel are meant to correspond, roughly, with the five stages of grief. In this chapter Vanka is somewhat in denial, and using an extreme sexual encounter completely uncharacteristic of her to avoid coping with her terror at having a life-threatening disease. It's less scary to be scared of Galen, and of what she's consenting to.

She's got her jeans (which in this sort of situation are frustratingly awkward, stiff things) at mid thigh. No bondage gear devised by a medieval torturer could more effectively restrain her legs. She can't widen her stance whatever he does or doesn't do. You could use the constriction of her jeans to enhance this scene - she could try to kick them off and he could prevent her - but you can't ignore them.

An excellent suggestion.

OK, the second encounter is intriguing, but again you've got a continuity problem. He was earlier looking at her breasts; she's wearing a thin shirt, and no bra, and while she was dressing his wounds he was looking at them. Speaking as a man, I know about this; I've done it many times. If she has a wound dressing on her breast - particularly one that partially covers her nipple - there's no way he hasn't noticed it. Men may be inobservant about many things, but believe me we are not inobservant about breasts.

Someone else (another man...hmmm...) brought this to my attention with regard to an earlier draft, and I tried to clear this up, but it sounds as though I need to revisit this in the next revision. The incision is meant to be on the outside, lower part of her breast. When he's looking down her blouse in the earlier scene, he isn't meant to be able to see her nipples or her breasts in their entirety:

...her blouse gapped away from her body, and he could see her bare skin, right down to her navel between the pale inverted hills of her breasts

So the bandage is hidden from his view. I'll work on making that clear.

Your scene in the bed is very warm, very tender, and very real. And I completely believe in her coming to the point where she can't go on, although she wants and needs to. I've been there, with a woman. It felt very real.

Very gratifying to hear. I feel I'm walking almost as a fine a line as with Vanka's conflicted eagerness and reticence, trying to make Galen tender, but not so ready to get wrapped up in this stranger's hurt as to be ridiculously implausible.

I'm a bit of a sucker for repeating themes in stories. Should his first penetration of her be over that railing on the balcony where he first kissed her? Would that be more effective?

A rather inspiring thought...

I love the way he looks at her body as he fucks her. That is so real, so much what men do (or at least what I do). I love the rhythm of your sentences, and the way you vary them; particularly when you get down to your one-word sentences. Don't over-do it, but what you're doing is great.

Goodness, thank you.

So, having read it, overall impressions...

This is very sweet romance, dealing with people who are realistically complex; with real psychology, real injuries (and I don't mean the physical ones), real backstory. They live. And the way they work together is beautiful and beautifully expressed; your writing is lovely, and I didn't find anything I thought was a weak point.

Your kind words are so reassuring—thank you.

I suspect you're going to reveal to us more backstory about Vanka than just the breast cancer. Not that I'm suggesting that breast cancer is not devastating; my mother had it, and my little sister died of lung cancer. I understand a little of what cancer does to your self image. But at the same time cancer by itself doesn't account for the layered complexity of Vanka. I suspect already that I'm not going to like David.

You describe far more, and in far more specificity, than I would, particularly in your sex scenes. That isn't a fault, it's a stylistic difference. Normally when I get paragraphs of description of physical interaction - what body part is pressed into what body part - I get bored and skip ahead. I didn't here. I was engaged. But primarily I was engaged by the characters. This is great story-telling.

I'm sorry to hear about your intimate experience with cancer. I worry, a bit, that I'm using a very tender subject which touches so many people's real lives, to facilitate my bit of fiction, but I do think it's worth exploring, and am trying to treat it with depth and sensitivity. I don't have any first-hand experience with breast cancer, but at times feel deeply the latent fear that I could be diagnoed, any time, and imagine most women feel anxiety about this, on some level. And the thought of having the disease comes with the fear that it would cancel one out as a sexual being, which is, of course, terrifying.

The cancer is the driving catalyst for Vanka exploring completely new sexual territory, but ultimately the story deals more broadly with how hurt people (which, I'd argue, is everyone), can sustain themselves and one another and defy the injuring constraints of the world through intimacy which, by virtue of being libratory from constraints which ultimately are cultural, is inherently unorthodox.

It's funny, you mentioning the level of specificity I go into with the sex scenes. Honestly, I'm getting awfully bored of writing those scenes in such detail, and I constantly struggle with myself over what these stories of mine are supposed to be. I do want them to be arousing. Do I want them to be stroke material? I don't mind if that's what it inspires, but it's not the main point. But the story is largely about how these people are using sex to work through their respective pain. When I read back over things I've written more recently, where the sex is done in much broader strokes, I don't miss the gynocam, but fret that I'm shorting the reader.

Thank you so, so much, both for your generous praise, and for pointing up so many technical and substantive ways in which this chapter can be improved.

Grateully,

Nasha

 

[Nasha]

Hurt ch. 02 by Nasha

Again, thank you, thank you for such a detailed critique!

I'm still surprised at how sexually forward Vanka is. In the ten or twelve years she's been sexually mature[1], she's had four lovers; no one night stands, drunken shags, whatever. I find it surprising that she is prepared to take the sexual initiative so early and so blatantly. If she is this sexually forward, how is it that she's so relatively inexperienced? If she's prepared to go out and get sex, why hasn't she had more of it? The answer I suspect you're going to give me is 'because this is new behaviour for her, because she hasn't done it before'. But if at twenty-seven she really hasn't done it before I find it hard to believe she would be so full-on, so full of confidence. Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole-hill, but I'm not persuaded here. My willing suspension of disbelief is under strain.

Vanka's something of an experiment for me, and perhaps I'm not managing this balance between her confidence, on the one hand, and her delving into new and intimidating territory on the other. Historically, I've had a tendency to write virginal female MCs because I find apprehension around sex so erotic. But I also find the tender virgin thing awfully trite, so I wanted Vanka to be strong and confident, but her experience to be limited by the nature of her past relationships.

Vanka's had lots and lots of sex, it just hasn't been terribly adventurous, and it's always been in the context of a long-term relationship. She's one of those serial monogamists who's only been single for fleeting periods between boyfriends. And she's confident of her abilities as a lover, and quite capable of deriving her pleasure within the bounds of very vanilla sex.

Why is she wearing panties? If you were going to see someone in the explicit hope of getting fucked, would you? Again, I'm not talking about the conventions of erotic writing, I'm talking about real life. And I'm surprised.

I absolutely would, unless I was planning on some kind of surreptitious encounter, because I find undressing another and being undressed terrifically sexy. That does influence how I write scenes, though I often find choreographing the removal of clothing in a story to be a pain.

Having said all that about her sexual forwardness, her fucking herself on him is very erotic - for a male reader, certainly. And the suggestion that she can orgasm so easily in this position is also erotic.

So glad to hear it.

I stumbled at the speech beginning 'He at home...' I first thought it was Vanka's speech, and that 'He' was a typo for 'He's'. Again, a little hint of who is speaking would have helped me.

I admit that line is confusing. I thought that was how he'd say in, naturally, in conversation, but without being able to hear the vocal inflection of the question, it's tough to follow. Attribution might help, but I suppose I could put in the “Is” at the beginning, as well, to make it easier on the reader.

What was she in? She's going to get fucked, certainly; you clearly mean that. But do you mean more? I'm not certain, and I'm uncomfortably not certain.

By “She was in,” I just meant that she'd decided she'd go along with Galen on the toy store adventure.

Talking about 'trying to take it all in' in a dildo store is open to unintended humour.

Read on to chapter five for the deca-penetration scene.

I love him making her tell him how she masturbates, in a semi-public space. it's very sexy. I like you don't tell us what they bought, that you make us anticipate. You could keep us anticipating longer...

Thank you. Amusingly enough, I found it more arousing, writing that scene in the store, than the sex that comes after.

This is only a few days later, right? All his gravel rash is scabbed up and tight? I race push bikes. I know what week-old gravel rash feels like. There are going to be a lot of things Galen really does not want to do.

Thanks for pointing that out.

And in conclusion...

I don't know where you're going with this piece. I don't know what you intended with this chapter. If it's just for erotic effect, it worked - the erotic effect was considerable; and the writing is graceful and assured. but I didn't get the feeling I knew either character any better at the end of it than I had at the beginning. Yes, I know Vanka has left David, but that's almost null information; it's implicit in Chapter one than Vanka is homeless and a bit lost. Will you take me somewhere new in Chapter three?

Yes, I think you're right, this chapter is rather skimpy on character development and plot progression—a serious flaw, and one I have some ideas for addressing.

Thanks so much for another thoughtful and thorough critique. Your feedback has me seeing this chapter, and the whole story, in a fresh light. You're actually helping me to re-focus on my reasons for writing this story to begin with. I'm extremely grateful.

 

[Nasha]

"Workshop"

Does Pat give consent? Do you feel that at any point in this scene Pat gives consent? Do you feel she consents to John taking her to bed afterwards? Clearly, by the time they go upstairs the following day for (implicitly) anal sex, she is consenting. But what I'm trying to do is make the action of my story mimic the action of the story Pat is failing to tell. I intended you to understand that she was raped - or at least, that the very least, John was deliberately walking that interesting and dangerous borderline between consenting and non-consenting sex.

...

John knows what he is doing; of that I have no doubt. John is a morally complex character capable of ruthlessness. And by the morning, Pat doesn't feel in the least raped. In my original longer draft of the story, Colin encounters them years later happily married to each other.

I certainly don't think the sex in this scene is innocent of coercion. But somewhere between the forced kiss and undressing at knife-point, and Pat fucking the knife handle, I see her crossing over from unwilling to willing.

I'm not speaking of legal definitions of consent or of rape, but rather of the conflicting feelings I infer Pat to be experiencing. I believe she is frightened, as she repeatedly says she is. But I read her as being more frightened of what she is doing than of what John is doing. John does just enough to allow Pat to feel she doesn't have a choice, but we never see her try to stop what's happening--say, by telling him coolly, firmly, that she does not want John to kiss her, strip her, touch her. Her one plea--that he not fuck her in front of everyone--he honors, suggesting that he might well have stopped any time she really asked him to.

None of this exonerates John, though; I interpret his actions--at least at the beginning of the scene, as sexual assault.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Musings about consent and coercion

I certainly don't think the sex in this scene is innocent of coercion. But somewhere between the forced kiss and undressing at knife-point, and Pat fucking the knife handle, I see her crossing over from unwilling to willing.

I don't think that consent is binary. I think there is a big space in the middle where consent is neither given nor withheld. And I think beyond the coercive power of the knife there's also the coercive power of hypnotism - not, perhaps, classic hypnotism here but what John is doing with his words and voice is intended (at least I intend it to) give Pat very little space in which to protest, and also to make the wildly unreasonable things John is doing seem inevitable, inescapable.

I'm not speaking of legal definitions of consent or of rape, but rather of the conflicting feelings I infer Pat to be experiencing. I believe she is frightened, as she repeatedly says she is. But I read her as being more frightened of what she is doing than of what John is doing. John does just enough to allow Pat to feel she doesn't have a choice, but we never see her try to stop what's happening--say, by telling him coolly, firmly, that she does not want John to kiss her, strip her, touch her. Her one plea--that he not fuck her in front of everyone--he honors, suggesting that he might well have stopped any time she really asked him to.

I don't think, in what you're writing or in what I'm writing, legal definitions of rape help us very much. Rape - and sexual coercion generally - is much more nuanced and much more morally complex than that. By which I'm not at all trying to excuse it.

I'm interested by your reading of Pat. This clearly is - and is intended to be - a rite of passage for her, a seminal and cathartic moment in her life. She, clearly (like your Vanka) is wondering how far she will allow herself to be taken. But she is - at least before the event - a much less strong, a much less self confident, a much less formed person than your Vanka. She partly doesn't protest - at least in my mind - because she doesn't have the self-confidence to.

None of this exonerates John, though; I interpret his actions--at least at the beginning of the scene, as sexual assault.

Absolutely. John - like your Galen - is perfectly aware that he is overstepping legal boundaries, that he's putting himself legally at risk. But, like your Galen, he's doing that in the context of a genuine belief that it is to the benefit of the other party. In asking Pat, before hand, if she really wants to be able to write her story he isn't asking for her consent to sex, but he is asking her for her consent to a lesson in complex emotional and sexual behaviour.

These are complicated men, and not entirely bad ones - indeed, I think they're both honourable and likeable men.

 

[niyah2]

wondering

It has been a long while since I have ventured here. Mostly because of illness that stopped my writing. I am wondering if anyone is even using this thread to try and get critique on their stories or poems? I will gladly read and give my thoughts if someone will read some of mine and do the same. Thanks

Niyah2

 

[YDB95]

I hadn't seen this thread before, but I think it's a terrific idea. I'm game as well.

 

[ZardozSays]

this is a good idea!

I cant believe that this wouldnt be one of the most popular threads on the site. Glancing at the exchanges on the thread, the spirit of it was so positive and upbeat that it sure be great to resurrect that type of author exchange.

 

[Subjugate_Me]

Hi Zardoz,

I really enjoyed the twist at the end of 'Taking Control in the Park', simply because you touched on an emotion of the rapist that is often overlooked - the fear that he may get caught. Usually in stories, the rapist swaggers home and is completely at ease with his crime since he feels he has the upper hand, but your opportunistic rapist reveals his, dare I say it, vulnerability at the end of the story.

Here are links to my two stories, "An Older Man" and "Infidelity" which are currently up on the Non-Consensual category of the board. I'm always grateful for any constructive criticism and hope you enjoy the stories.

http://www.literotica.com/s/an-older-man-1
http://www.literotica.com/s/infidelity-6

 

[Hitman7]

Hi Zardoz,

I really enjoyed the twist at the end of 'Taking Control in the Park', simply because you touched on an emotion of the rapist that is often overlooked - the fear that he may get caught. Usually in stories, the rapist swaggers home and is completely at ease with his crime since he feels he has the upper hand, but your opportunistic rapist reveals his, dare I say it, vulnerability at the end of the story.

Here are links to my two stories, "An Older Man" and "Infidelity" which are currently up on the Non-Consensual category of the board. I'm always grateful for any constructive criticism and hope you enjoy the stories.

http://www.literotica.com/s/an-older-man-1
http://www.literotica.com/s/infidelity-6

I read both your stories. I didn't like 'An Older Man' because frankly speaking, I could not relate to it.

As for 'Infidelity', it was good. The way you wrote the story, not mentioning any names while focusing mostly on emotions was splendid. Compared to most stories here at Literotica, it was more like a personal anecdote, that focused on the feelings involve in 'extra marital affairs (albeit in your story, it was violent feelings. lol).

These were my favourite lines:

Eventually, he rolls onto his back and I feel his sticky seed dribble out of my ruined arse. He stands up and looks down at me with disdain. "This is how it's going to be from now on, you filthy whore," he spits at me. "I own you now, mind body and soul, and don't you ever forget it."

I could imagine myself doing that. lol.

--------------------------

Here are the links to my story, "Filius." The basic premise is that son finds out his mother is having an affair with his classmate. It's told in first-person view, and in reverse story progression.

Enjoy!

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-01

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-02

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-03

 

[ifoifo]

When We are Cats

Here are the links to my story, "Filius." The basic premise is that son finds out his mother is having an affair with his classmate. It's told in first-person view, and in reverse story progression.

Enjoy!

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-01

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-02

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-03

I read the first chapter of your story, Filius. I thought the story was well written without any noticeable grammatical errors. There were a few things I did notice that you might want to consider:

1. Your story takes place in New York (family originally from Nebraska), but the vernacular you used was very British English. For example, you used the word, 'mum' when you should have been using the American version, 'mom'. Once or twice you seemed to even switch back and forth e.g., "I smelled something delicious as I made my way towards the kitchen. I then saw my mum frying bacon and eggs. She was wearing an apron with the words 'The Best Mom in the World" emblazoned on it.'"
There were a few other examples like, 'lift' instead of 'elevator' but it's not a huge deal.

2. I would be very cautious with your ages. You state that the mother was in her early thirties and that your main character was born while she was in her teens. For stories published on Lit, characters involved in sexual activities are not allowed to be under the age of eighteen; and therefore the math does cut it pretty close - even though you don't specify his age. I would suggest moving the mother's age to mid-thirties in order to avoid having the story removed.

Overall, good work. Keep writing.

• • •

I have two stories up, but they're novellas and I wouldn't expect anyone to read all of the chapters. However, I would appreciate a read through of the first chapter of, When We are Cats. Suggestions would be helpful.

http://www.literotica.com/s/when-we-are-cats-ch-01

Thanks
Fuiva

 

[Hitman7]

I read the first chapter of your story, Filius. I thought the story was well written without any noticeable grammatical errors. There were a few things I did notice that you might want to consider:

1. Your story takes place in New York (family originally from Nebraska), but the vernacular you used was very British English. For example, you used the word, 'mum' when you should have been using the American version, 'mom'. Once or twice you seemed to even switch back and forth e.g., "I smelled something delicious as I made my way towards the kitchen. I then saw my mum frying bacon and eggs. She was wearing an apron with the words 'The Best Mom in the World" emblazoned on it.'"
There were a few other examples like, 'lift' instead of 'elevator' but it's not a huge deal.

2. I would be very cautious with your ages. You state that the mother was in her early thirties and that your main character was born while she was in her teens. For stories published on Lit, characters involved in sexual activities are not allowed to be under the age of eighteen; and therefore the math does cut it pretty close - even though you don't specify his age. I would suggest moving the mother's age to mid-thirties in order to avoid having the story removed.

Overall, good work. Keep writing.

• • •

I have two stories up, but they're novellas and I wouldn't expect anyone to read all of the chapters. However, I would appreciate a read through of the first chapter of, When We are Cats. Suggestions would be helpful.

http://www.literotica.com/s/when-we-are-cats-ch-01

Thanks
Fuiva

While I'm not really a fan of vampire literoticas, I could say that yours was well written. As a whole, I don't really like the vampire genre anymore because I find most 'new' stories in that category, cliche (I'm a fan of the World of Darkness though and have read Anne Rice's Vampire Chronicles).

Anyway in the prologue, you wrote in first-person POV, but in the actual chapters you did it in the third-person. You should have just focus using one POV. It made things a bit awkward to read.

I liked the part where you mentioned a sort-of vampire kingdom. It will be great if you can flesh it out more in the succeeding chapters. Like what do they do in the kingdom? What are the denizens like?

Add more action scenes/violence/fighting. I know this is Literotica, but vampires are not only seduction artists. They are also 'monsters' who drink blood and kill people. Think of Blade, Interview with the Vampire, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and less Twilight.

Keep on writing!

----------------------

I would appreciate reviews for this chapter.

http://www.literotica.com/s/filius-ch-03