Incest with sister is ok

[Celtic_Heart]

Going to throw in my two pence worth here,

Is it right or wrong? Well society (as a whole) thinks it is and there are some fairly strong reasons why close relatives shouldn't have children with each other and I accept those too. I'm not getting into the religous aspects as coming from a country where being seen to be affiliated with one religion or another is likely to get you shot, I'll give that a miss.

Anyway, my point, for what it's worth: So far the discussion has been on where the siblings know that they are related, but in our ever more divorce prone society, what happens when two people have sex yet don't know they are related even though they are half siblings.

Not that it has happened to me but my parents split up when I was about 2 years old. Since that time I've had no contact with my father. I assume that, in the intervenining 30 odd years, he has remarried and I may well have a number of half siblings that I know nothing about. Suppose I met and had sex (still not knowing that the person in question was my half brother) with one of those? By legal definition (in the UK anyway) it's still incest but the point I'm making is that both parties are completely unaware of the fact.

You could argue that it would come out when I meet his parents and I suppose that is logical, but it could be that our father is a serial divorcee or is no longer alive or for any number of reasons we simply never stumble upon the truth. Where is the moral argument now?

Oh well, that's the debate now off on a new tangent, wonder what the resposes will be like.

S

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Oh, and an astral body event is called an "OOBE" (Out Of Body Experience). Two "Os".

 

[malgbs]

DCL -- OOBE's

Words from the subconscious DCL? The phrase "an astral body event is called an OOBE" is an unequivocal statement of fact: something which does occur --- "an astral body even," in the same way as "the sun rises and sets."

Methinks DCL is not the atheist he purports to be or that his grasp of the English language is not as great as he would have us believe. Good thing I didn't have you in the witness box under cross-examination DCL --- you've just blown your credibility and the jury knows it!

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Huh?

I can talk about Astrology too, don't mean it ain't so much magazine toilet paper. LOL

When I was in my early teens and developing my magic skills I took a decided interst in all things occult. I studied every psychic science under the sun, including astral projection.

I learned how to meditate and create the vibrating sensation common to the experience. I was able to feel myself dislocate from my body and sink into my bed. I did this every night (every single night) for nearly five years. I was only ever able to truly disassociate myself from my corporeal body in my dreams, which were lucid, and felt very real. My family was sure that I was a gifted adept and that I actually walked the earth at night, free from my too, too solid frame.

I was never convinced. I kept trying. And as I became better at the mediation (at first it would take an hour to reach the "vibraiton" stage, eventually I could get there in about 30 seconds) I was better able to put the experience into perspective. I soon came to the conclusion that there are, indeed, alternate states of consciousness where suggestion, archetypes, and the brain's natural ability to transform images and patterns into dream can create a wide variety of imagined experiences.

To me, an "astral body event" is an hallucination brought about by deep meditation, stress, heightened angst or bliss.

Now, in the future, should I happen to mention the word "Jesus" (as in "Jesus Christ look at those tits!") feel free to NOT believe that I've somehow converted to Christianity.

 

[MissVictoria]

I beg to differ on the abbreviation for Out of Body Experience. I have several books on the subject... hell, I've even taught it.

And just to back me up:

from http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/obe.html

"Out-of-body-experiences (OBEs) are those curious, and usually brief experiences in which a person's consciousness seems to depart from his or her body, enabling observation of the world from a point of view other than that of the physical body and by means other than those of the physical senses. Thus, an out-of-the-body experience can initially be defined as 'an experience in which a person seems to perceive the world from a location outside his physical body'. "


from http://www.personal-freedom.org/empower/obe/

"In fact, it often seems that the world I see when in OBE begins to differ from the physical one the farther away from home I get. "


from http://mailbox.univie.ac.at/Alfred.Ballabene/english/combart1.htm

This article is written in two parts. In the first, we focus on the hypnagogic state and differentiate between the common and OBE inducing states. The primary focus is on the latter. In particular, we discuss the occurrence of various acoustic and visual sensations, several theories for OBE's, specific visual sensations that may initiate OBE's and present examples of each. In the second part we consider In-the-Body-Experiences (IBE's). We discuss and present examples of partial body separation, the awakening of inner sight, the sensing of voices and ectoplasm.



Sometimes Out of Body Experiences are abbreviated OOBE, but that is certainly not the one and only abbreviation, or even neccesarily the most popular.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Sometimes Out of Body Experiences are abbreviated OOBE, but that is certainly not the one and only abbreviation, or even neccesarily the most popular.

Yes it is. So there. Meet me after school.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

OOBE was coined in the 60s. Though OBE is used more frequently now, OOBE came first, and I suppose I'm a purist (as pure as one can be about such an ill-defined term LOL).

 

[MissVictoria]

*shrug* I wasn't arguing that your abbreviation wasn't valied.

I was arguing that my abbreviation was also valid, since you made it so clear in your post that it was not (which you later changed your tune to, which is just fine with me!)

Anyhow...

Meet you after school?

Damn. Do I have detention again?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Yes. And I want you to write "It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople" 1000 times on the blackboard.

 

[MissVictoria]

*pout* *the chalkboard squeaks as she writes*

It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople
It was Istanbul now it's Constantinople

Theres 100 times... can we just call it good, teach? Or think of some alternate form of punishment?

*eyes the ruler on the desk and bends over slightly*

 

[MissVictoria]

*looks at what she has written*

Isn't it the other way around?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Yes. I was wrong. Spank me. Muhahaha.

 

[Angel]

You know, I'm glad some people still acknowledge there's a Supreme Being out there. Funny, on Sept 11, what happened to all the supposed atheists? I'm not taking any shots at you DCL, but all of a sudden people turn to religion when disaster strikes!

...

The "supposed atheists" are still here. There was no change after Sept 11, though I'd bet a great many agnostics went to church for the first time in years.

Those with faith like to think that in times of peril atheists start calling out the name of "God". Doesn't happen. You'd might as well wait for us to start calling out the name of the Easter Bunny.

We sure are. I got an E-Mail from a friend on September 12 asking me if I was still messing around with that Atheism rubbish now.

DCL, check your mail.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

I'm not opening my mail. Todd told me there might be cyber anthrax in there.

 

[Angel]

Dork.

 

[MissVictoria]

One of the worst punishments in the world- making me give a spanking instead of recieve one.

 

[malgbs]

Celtic Heart --- Incest

Sorry to disappoint but you've missed a vital part of criminal law. One of the essentials for conviction of a criminal offence is mens rea -- criminal intent, guilty mind -- which the prosecution has to prove.
If the parties to the act of incest did not know they were siblings, of the whole or half-blood, at the time of the act, they could not possibly have criminal intent because as far as they knew at that time, they were wholly unrelated. Once they discovered they were blood-related, any subsequent act(s) of incest would, without doubt, import mens rea.

 

[malgbs]

Incest etc --- Dixon Carter Lee

If your "Huh" was directed at me, get a grip!
"To me an astral body event" is garbage and you know it unless you deem the language you post messages in is Dixon Carter Lee-ese and not the English language. If so, we in England were speaking DCL-ese a few centuries before he was thought of or America was discovered -- strange that!
You were self-righteously declaiming about theosphy and your professed atheism. You went on to state what astral body events were or were not but omitted to note that astral means not only starry but also a supersensible substance pervading all space and all bodies (including human beings) within it. 'Supersensible' imports cognisance because 'sensible' means conscious, aware, judicious.
Ergo, DCL's unequivocal admission that a supersensible substance (what is usually referred to as God or a Supreme Being) pervades all of creation is his admission his professed atheism is unadulterated nonsense: he knows, and admits the existence, of such supersensible substance.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
Oh, I'm content with what you've said and won't respond to whatever feeble attempts you may make to wriggle off the hook. You've hung yourself in your own words, presumably not the outpourings of persona non compos mentis. I won't bother to read, let alone reply to, your pathetic attempts to free yourself from the noose you've put round your own neck -- just hang loose in it and swing, baby, swing.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

God you're stupid. LOL

 

[malgbs]

MissVictoria -- Incest etc.

Liked your 100 lines but not the pathetic peurile, inane, ramblings of someone who cannot yet distinguish between childish dreams and near death out of body experiences. Mentally mature adults have dreams in which they see, hear, smell, taste and touch their surroundings but realise it was a dream, not reality, when they wake up. A couple of years ago, I had a nighmare: sitting in a garden I've never seen in 'real' life, woke, tiger standing next to me, smelt its breath as its eyes hypnotised mine, its lips parted and teeth bared and I knew no escape, I'm dinner as it's pawe lifted to grip its prey. All horribly, and absolutely, real until I woke up, bathed in sweat, bedding soaked and, being a sane, mentally mature, adult, realised it wasn't an OBE, just a nightmare. I've had dreams set in places I didn't recognise, conversations with people as we sat talking and drinking etc. --- all real until I woke up and realised the reality was a dream.
The self-confessed illiterate imbecile has already unequivocally admitted he can't read, messge of 16th to you, and of course the United States of America is the USOA and the Federal Bureau of Investigation is the FBOI because the poor witless soul has yet to learn prepositions such as 'of' are invariably left out of abbreviations and acronyms (he won't know what those words mean for sure) which means USA, FBI and OBE for Out of Body Experience.
If he really can go out of body at will (an entirely different experience from near death) within 30 seconds, he'll have no problem doing so, his ethereal self visiting me and his physical self posting detailed descriptions of, say, half a dozen items on the shelf behind me as I type this within 24 hours of this posting. If he doesn't, we'll all know he's a self-confessed illiterate, idiot, liar.
I thought he might do better (but didn't expect him to, excelling in anything is something he's never done) than invoking the name of God, Someone he avers does not exist in his reply. Prefacing "you're stupid" with the name of Someone he avows doesn't exist after the above self-confessions isn't any insult: he's even too stupid to realise a self-confessed, patently misguided egotistical, halfwit is incapable of insulting anyone and his feeble, disingenuous, attempts to insult de facto and per se prove such stupidity!

 

[malgbs]

MissVictoria -- Correct my oversights

Sorry -- forgot a couple of things.
1. Tiger nightmare --- not scared of death, been very close to it: scared of being alive and conscious while being torn limb from limb; not into that sort of pain at all!
2. My intellect. Among other things I'm a legum doctor, Doctor of Law, LLD. Obviously didn't pay enough attention at university to my Decelese lectures because I can't remember if that makes me a LLOD, LOD, DOLL or DOL. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! Haven't got a whip I could borrow have you please Miss Victoria? Do you think some quick flagellation, 30 lashes, would be sufficient penance?
Wait, I see a mental image -- I'm daydreaming. I'm in a room, the walls, ceiling and floor mirrors. There's a baby sitting in his playpen playing and I can hear him gurgling happily as he dribbles down the front of his romper suit. I can feel the wooden rail of the playpen in my hand as I look down at him realising that wherever he looks he sees himself. There's a small table with a clock and calendar on it: the clock hands rush round and the pages of the calendar unfold at tremendous speed -- 30 years have passed, I've aged but baby hasn't and I realise he, Decelee, will never grow or develop to reach anything beyond his present physical and mental age of less than two years of age. A fetid stench is burning my nostrils and my eyes are streaming -- looking down at baby's happy smile and the bulge of his nappy (diaper) I realise his filling it with excreta is the cause of my pain and his delight. I see the doll he's playing with and hear it saying "Ma-ma" repeatedly as he rocks it back and forth.
Hit me, whip me, hurt me Miss Victoria -- bring me back to the real world, away from this scene, this combination of Picture of Dorian Gray and Narcissus.
Thanks! Now back in the real world. The dream was a portend, an omen: -
1. Decelee is narcissistic.
2. The doll denoted that in decelese a doctor of law is a DOLL.
3. The doll's cries of "Ma-ma" coupled with the overtones of Narcissus make me think of other Greek figures --- ah, of course, Oedipus. That's what this message board is meant to be about: incest.
Weird isn't it how a little flight of fancy, which most certainly was not an OBE or even an OOBE, can answer so many questions?

 

[Celtic_Heart]

Re: Celtic Heart --- Incest

Sorry to disappoint but you've missed a vital part of criminal law. One of the essentials for conviction of a criminal offence is mens rea -- criminal intent, guilty mind -- which the prosecution has to prove.
If the parties to the act of incest did not know they were siblings, of the whole or half-blood, at the time of the act, they could not possibly have criminal intent because as far as they knew at that time, they were wholly unrelated. Once they discovered they were blood-related, any subsequent act(s) of incest would, without doubt, import mens rea.

Sorry malgbs, I wasn't looking at whether it was criminal or not, I am aware of this fact. I was merely throwing in the hypothetical situation as a way of showing that it's not an issue that is as simple as black and white as so many people sem to think it is.

The question I was trying to ask was more basic and is simply, Is it "wrong" (using whatever definition of wrong you like) if the two people involved don't actually know that they are siblings?

Not that people will ever agree anyway.

 

[malgbs]

Incest etc

English for beginners --- Analysis of the sentence "God you're stupid."

1) This says 'God you are stupid,' which can be more succinctly expressed as 'God is stupid.'
2) By definition, all gods are superbeings and the author, an ordinary, mortal, human being, therefore deems himself more than stupid: de facto brainless and devoid of intelligence.
3) The author professes he does not believe in God and that God does not exist: a non-existent Entity can neither be clever nor stupid. If He/She/It does not exist, neither does His/Her/Its intellect. This raises the question of why the author chose to write that something he avows does not exist is stupid. The only possible answers are that the author is illiterate and/or brainless (see 2) above) and/or insane.
4) The author either unequivocally confirms God does exist (and is of low intelligence) or is making a statement utterly devoid of meaning, the machinations of his feeble mind, if he has a mind. He evinces, in his own words, that he does not have a mind and, consequently, no intellect.
5) The author invokes the name of God, an entity he claims does not exist. Sane, rational, people possessed of intellect do not believe in Santa Claus, the Yeti, Loch Ness Monster, etc., but do not utter phrases such as "Santa Claus you're stupid." If they did, in all probability those nice young men in their clean white coats would come to lock them away in a padded cell in the nearest asylum.

 

[malgbs]

Incest etc --- Celtic_Heart

My apologies -- I didn't intend starting an argument and only wanted to point out the mens rea element. I omitted that, of course, in absolute offences, mens rea is not a required element.

Pax?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

But you are stupid. You really, really are. Your logic is awfully bad, your battles inane and your misplaced earnestness wearing. You're a crashing bore and I don't argue seriously with fools or bores. It isn't worth my time to prove you wrong when there's nothing I've said that requires support. I don't argue with my turtle about stem cell research ethics and I'm not about to argue thing one with you. LOL