intelect...

[Kajira Callista]

My first impression of this thread was gee this person is a very Dominant submissive. Maybe there is where the problem lies...maybe this person is looking in the wrong direction?

 

[shy slave]

Somewhat off the subject, but what really really gets on my nerves is weak willed people. I know it's somewhat odd, since I'm a sub, but I'm very strong willed, and I won't have anything to do with people who don't have at least as strong a will as me. I get bored.

Ditto
but then we have alot of strong-willed subs on the boards

 

[shy slave]

"Know your limitations and admit them?" It appears more that you're proud of them and somewhat defiant about them. I think if you display that attitude as much in person-to-person interaction, I would not find your company amenable - nor would you find me long in your company.

Spelling is not impossible - any decent word processor has spell-check. If one knows one "can't spell," then one should run their posts through a spell-checker. That will catch the majority of the errors (though not usually errors of usage).

Playing chess (not necessarily well, but playing it), "figuring out computers," and driving are learned skills - so an avowedly intelligent person should be able to learn them, if they're not lazy.

Creative writing and capacity for languages are talents, to be nurtured with practice and study. If one doesn't have those gifts, however, they likely have some talent in other areas, which can make up for it.

The "later" attitude toward housework - well, if one doesn't mind living in clutter, mess and unsanitary conditions, it's their own decision. Personally, I don't find a bit of clutter a problem - I'm notoriously cluttered myself - but mess and dirty dishes, etc., will drive me right out the door.

In all, it appears to me that you have a perhaps-unjustified sense of superiority, a fairly strong streak of laziness, and maybe even some of the "entitlement" attitude of many of those on the UK's and US's welfare rolls - "the world owes me, because I'm me."

As far as "learning fast," just what is it that you have learned? From your posts, you describe all the things you can't do, but list nothing positive about yourself, other than that you "learn fast." What skills and talents do you have? EKVITKAR asked you that question a number of posts back, and you never responded...

If this seems judgmental - it is. Your posts in this thread easily lead one to judge you by your own words and expressed thoughts. My judgment is that you have not shown any traits that would incline me to seek you out at a gathering, nor to remain in your company any longer than would be minimally polite.

Just to put my 2pence worth in.

I feel on dolfs wavelength and get a great deal from their posts, sometimes its what people DON'T say that gives you the greatest information.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Just to put my 2pence worth in ... sometimes its what people DON'T say that gives you the greatest information.

And that equals about 3 and a half cents locally.

i'll call/raise ... *flipping in a nickel*

 

[Sir_Winston54]

cluttered yes, unsanitary no.
i have learned to drive, but i'm not as good as i ought to be (perhaps this is just lack of practice). i consider that in "casual" writings spelling is unimportant, though many would disagree.
alas, chess...i know how the moves work but tactics are beyond me. the computer i have had for around 6 months and am utterly frustrated by how slow i'm picking it up (i'm far more intolerant of my own faults than of anyone elses)
i readily admit these limitations because they are so often pointed out to me. i am not gleeful in my failings, merely honest!
i have never considered that the world owes me. one of the things i am good at...well i just passed a course in canine behaviour/pschology with destinction (preparing for the time when i am able to set up business for myself and depend on no one) in fact my score was 100%, which i don't mind saying i'm very proud of. it's not as easy as it might seem as every one of the hundreds of breeds has slightly different temperament, motivation and reactions.
i screwed up much of my earlier life in reaction to specific events, and i worked bloody hard to get over them and find a way of getting my life back on track. i have no intention if sitting around whining about the cards that life has dealt me. my sense of superiority has long since vanished.

i'm creative...i can paint and draw. my peotry is ok, though morbid. i have studied religion and philosophy and can debate these fairly well. i think i've figured out the temperature of a vacuum. i'm good at reading people, in face to face situations at least. i can solve most problems that come down to logic. i make and design some of my clothes and i work without patterns, which is a talent.

i would go on but i've been having a triggery day and need to rest now.
xx

oh..i love chopin too, and handel. i used to play violin but i lost the passion for it...
after watching someone hunting pheasants bare handed i once managed to catch one...but felt to guilty to kill it as i was vegie at the time. i can make fire too, and i know my plants and fungi so i guess i could survive if i had to, though i wouldn't want to try it without a good dog with me!

Now, this post tells us something positive about you. Your previous posts in this thread created a negative impression on me, first because it appeared that you were being (perhaps undeservedly) elitist or superior, and second, because you listed a series of things you don't do well or are otherwise often considered to be negative personality traits.

This dolf - the one of accomplishment and pride - quite possibly is one to seek out at a gathering, to spend some time chatting with.

Having never "worked the sub side of the street," I don't have the benefit of Netzach's experience, but I can easily see that that viewpoint, and KC's comment regarding it could well be true. Perhaps submission has been your entree into the culture, and your eventual evolution will lead you toward Dominance? It's a thought to consider...

 

[emme]

I agree with a few here, I don't want to be with someone who is not smart (I am not sure how to define smart).

My husband says I am smarter than him, (I'm not sure if I really am, he is pretty damn smart in a whole lot of ways)

I could not submit to an idiot because I have to be able to trust a person I submit to and I could not trust an idiot who might have me do something stupid that could hurt me.

One reason is that I am very curious about everything, especially if it is scientific. I am always asking my husband why and what if, ( he is a teacher and he likes to teach but I still drive him crazy at times). I would drive a normal person crazy.

The more important reason is I want to be able to trust the person I am with to take care of me at least as well as I can take care of myself. True I am an idiot at times,I have no sense of direction, my parents call me crash because I don't drive well ( and no driving is not a learned skill, you either have the spacial abilities or not), and I also have no sense of time. But I was able to take care of myself pretty well before I married my husband.

I also don't think someone who isn't "smart" would want to be with me, or at least I haven't ever had the oppertunity. ( I have tried to start dating a few people who just weren't into me who I later realized weren't "smart") I don't really care about celebreties or movie stars or athletes or more normal stuff.

I also recognize that just because I have have more years of education, better grades, or a higher IQ doesn't mean I am a better person than anyone else. But I will look down on a person who doesn't even try.

 

[Esclava]

<snip> I find being the Domme much more satisfying and relevant to me anyhow, but maybe had I found someone who really could make me feel dumb and awed I might have stuck with the program.

You know Net, I generally like the way your mind works - no, for the most part, I really enjoy the way your mind works.

I "felt good" about this post ... until the last line. IMO - and remember this is MY opinion - I'm not sure I could sub for someone who made me feel dumb AND awed.

Intelligence is what is atractive to my online M. He desires slaves he can talk to about more things than what their mouths are doing while wrapped around his cock.

I must admit - I am in awe of Master and I appreciate his patience when I am not thinking through an issue I have laid at his feet (a lot like Francisco's patience when I have a difference of opinion with him). However, if Master EVER made me feel dumb, I would very likely not remain in his company long.

Esclava

 

[Guest]

Last thoughts on this..

A few last thoughts from me on this particular subject...
IQ is situational ...Or rather, biased by your inherent predilictions.
"In my experience"- (please note the quotes) People who are in the upper ranges are a LOT easier to play mind games with.
But..There is, inside every human hunk of grey matter, something you can tweak to fit what you want. You just may have to work a bit harder to gain the necessary understanding of that individual.
(*sigh* the subconcious is a beautiful thing)
Also "In my experience" As the IQ numbers rise, the personality of the individual "may" tend to become inherently more unstable.
Which is why the dull folks almost never go insane in interesting ways.

And a couple of randomisms...

There is a wonderful quote from Heinlein ...In "Time Enough For Love" I believe..About the things a human being should be able to do. It ends with the observation that "specialization is for insects.".

And a sort of quote from an old friend of mine..."Sort of", because he said this many times..And it tended to change a bit each time.
"Intellegence is only good insofar as it can be APPLIED...You can be the smartest person in the world..But if you can't USE it .. Then you end up playing fetch for those that can.
Or being food."
The best example he gave for this, was the always present "Want fries with that".

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: Last thoughts on this..

"Intellegence is only good insofar as it can be APPLIED...You can be the smartest person in the world..But if you can't USE it .. Then you end up playing fetch for those that can.

Or being food."

Kaching.

 

[dolf]

hmm...this isn't really about the nature of intelligence though...it's about looking at a person and being enthralled by the workings of their mind, of being certain that they will be wise enough to always make the best choice for your welfare. it's about feeling like you will never stop learning from this person.

an example of a person I considered "stupid".
we got on well, he seemed kind, considerate and thoughtful...then one day we are watching the news and there is an item about two pilots who were killed in WW2 finally being found and given a proper burial.
his response was "they shouldn't be given a proper burial because they have killed and murder is a evil!" though by his own admission he knew nothing about what the circumstances were.
being ignorant is not the same as being stupid..so I explained that there was conscription, that the penalty for desertion was death, that the Nazi felt it was their destiny to take over Europe and kill every single one of the millions of Jewish, gypsy and disabled people in every country they entered. that despite war being an awful thing sometimes it is the lesser of two evils.that this was important to the living family of the pilots (who were entirely innocent even by his standards). that this was a different era where people placed total faith in their leaders to make the right choices.
his response.."yeah...but they killed people"although I asked (quietly and politely) why he held this view and listened to his response (even though it was repetitive)
to me, whether you agree with war or not, this rigidity of mind and inability to see that not everything is black and white indicates stupidity. I found his reaction the same in pretty much every situation he encountered. I make no apology for having left this person because of their stupidity.

ok. now I'm asking for a debate on war, lol.
it's not that he didn't agree with me, it's that he had no rational argument to make. he simply repeated "yeah, but they killed people" over and over again. even after careful explanation he couldn't grasp the basic politics behind the situation.

how am I different in this type of situation? why do I consider myself more intelligent than him. well, I listen to the other arguments and try to understand that view even where I don't agree. I am open to the fact that I may be wrong and, if presented with enough evidence to change my opinion I am flexible enough to accept this. if my opinion of a situation is clouded by ignorance I make real effort to study and understand.
I am not so stupid as to imagine that life is simple, that there are no grey areas and that I am beyond being taught. although I sometimes make dumb assumptions I try to see everything with an open mind. I consider the ability the empathise a sign of being smart and although this doesn't come naturally to me I make an effort to do this.

I LOVE the feeling I get when I'm talking to a person and really learning! and I NEVER resent a person for being better educated, wiser or having more common sense than me. I make no apology for finding a person who is smarter than me to be infinitely more attractive than one who isn't.

xx

/ducks and waits for this to blow up...

 

[dolf]

My first impression of this thread was gee this person is a very Dominant submissive. Maybe there is where the problem lies...maybe this person is looking in the wrong direction?

I am not a natural Alpha...I can keep my head in a crisis and if I'm needed to I can take the lead but that doesn't make me a leader (I'm just a beta filling in)
I've studied wolves for my qualifications and I admire the way that even though the beta wolf is clever, confident and powerful it will utterly submit to and lay at the feet of the Alpha. why? because the alpha is MORE clever, confident and powerful.

on a more personal note...I never had a father figure, I never had any strong male influence in my life as I was growing up. nobody ever tanned my hide for breaking the rules, nobody ever even set the rules. nobody ever made me feel utterly safe and secure. I missed out and I crave it now. (ok, I sound kinda pathetic saying that!)
xx

 

[rosco rathbone]

This is a text medium. Spell correctly or you will not be taken entirely seriously; your other possible skills notwithstanding.

 

[shy slave]

This is a text medium. Spell correctly or you will not be taken entirely seriously; your other possible skills notwithstanding.

Was it Weird Harold who said 'its my fingers that are stupid'

My spelling used to be better than it is now, its reliance on spell checkers and auto sorrect that has made it worse then before; that an the problem of my brain thinking quicker than my fingers type.

It doesn't make me stupid ...just my fingers

My punction on the other hand is far from ideal, and yes I am working on it!

 

[Pure]

dolf,

yes, a more rounded, not unappealing picture of you is emerging.
much like Kajira said. pretty dominant. ("I will submit to you and it WILL be done MY way.")

as to your example, one of many:

an example of a person I considered "stupid".
we got on well, he seemed kind, considerate and thoughtful...then one day we are watching the news and there is an item about two pilots who were killed in WW2 finally being found and given a proper burial. {etc}

OK, dolf, you're right (or is it 'wright').

But please answer this: What does one say about the intelligence of a person who hangs around a 'stupid' one (by their own description), attempts arguing with this one, and then publically tells about its lack of success?

All criticisms of mates, and one's 'usual circle,' bounce back, my dear.

 

[dolf]

But please answer this: What does one say about the intelligence of a person who hangs around a 'stupid' one (by their own description), attempts arguing with this one, and then publicly tells about its lack of success?

well...I met him one day when I was shopping, he asked me on a date, I went.
it takes a while to get to know a person and as soon as I did I saw that he was a person I wouldn't want to "hang with", so I cut all contact. it was very, very brief.

I tried reasoning with this person because, well, it seemed only fair to allow this person to justify that opinion or perhaps even change it (perhaps even teach me something I wasn't aware of) and there may have been personal reasons (his grandma was killed by a bomb dropped by an English plane?? maybe??)....not to mention that by saying nothing I would imply that I agreed or approved.

why would I tell this lack of success? why not? it brings across my point and I don't think it reflects badly on me that I was willing to try to reason with this person. sometimes people (including me) make assumptions, sometimes very dumb assumptions. if nobody ever challenges our assumptions how are we ever to learn?
it's a "do unto others" thing for me.if my opinion was based on ignorance of the fact I would want someone to explain where I was missing the point, not just roll their eyes behind my back.
constructive criticism without malice is a wonderful thing.

xx

 

[Kajira Callista]

I read that whole thing up there and to me it read as if you didnt like his opinion and when you tried to change it and you couldnt he was stupid. Instead of respecting him for having a strong opinion not easily swayed you were annoyed. Seems to be that your mind is the ridgid one, refusing to see that maybe...just maybe his opinion was thought out and that is where he stood. You turned it to make the person ignorant. As a matter of fact i have noticed that you pretty much ignore alot of things ppl here have posted, and i honestly dont think you are aware you are doing it.

 

[rosco rathbone]

rowr

rowr, catfight...with subbies!

 

[bridgeburner]

I'll take a big brain over a big dick any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[dolf]

I read that whole thing up there and to me it read as if you didnt like his opinion and when you tried to change it and you couldnt he was stupid. Instead of respecting him for having a strong opinion not easily swayed you were annoyed. Seems to be that your mind is the ridgid one, refusing to see that maybe...just maybe his opinion was thought out and that is where he stood. You turned it to make the person ignorant. As a matter of fact i have noticed that you pretty much ignore alot of things ppl here have posted, and i honestly dont think you are aware you are doing it.

well no, I was genuinely interested in the reason for his opinion but his entire opinion consisted of one statement.by his own admission he knew nothing on the subject...there are lots of people whom I strongly disagree with who I have great respect for. I have even been know to change my opinion in the face of superior reasoning, lol.
you may think that I haven't listened to anybody else's opinion, but when it was pointed out that I had missed answering a question I answered it. when it was pointed out that my spelling was annoying (after I gave my personal opinion that in casual writing it was unimportant) I started using spell check and also went back to all my previous posts and corrected the spelling there too. when you said that I had misread the tone of a question I immediately apologised.

at the risk of being personal...are you in a relationship? if so do you consider him at least as, if not more intelligent than yourself? if yes, is this part of his attraction?

xx

 

[dolf]

The more important reason is I want to be able to trust the person I am with to take care of me at least as well as I can take care of myself. True I am an idiot at times,I have no sense of direction, my parents call me crash because I don't drive well ( and no driving is not a learned skill, you either have the spacial abilities or not), and I also have no sense of time. But I was able to take care of myself pretty well before I married my husband.

ty emme.
sorry, I somehow missed your response until now.
that's how I should have phrased it "I want to be able to trust the person I am with to take care of me at least as well as I can take care of myself."
very eloquent
xx

 

[shy slave]

Re: rowr

rowr, catfight...with subbies!

gets ready with the sponge and bucket for when half-time bell rings....

 

[shy slave]

But please answer this: What does one say about the intelligence of a person who hangs around a 'stupid' one (by their own description), attempts arguing with this one, and then publically tells about its lack of success?

All criticisms of mates, and one's 'usual circle,' bounce back, my dear.

Ok, I will put more than 2 pence and AA's flipped nickel in,

Will cover myself in readiness for the flames and bullets but I NEED to know

Pure was this questioned aimed at dolf being with someone she realised was stupid or at Kajira or Sir_Winston for mis-reading dolfs (who is a relatively new lit person and doesn't need jumped on) intention in the orginal post??


*ducks back under the cover of darkness*

 

[Kajira Callista]

well no, I was genuinely interested in the reason for his opinion but his entire opinion consisted of one statement.by his own admission he knew nothing on the subject...there are lots of people whom I strongly disagree with who I have great respect for. I have even been know to change my opinion in the face of superior reasoning, lol.
you may think that I haven't listened to anybody else's opinion, but when it was pointed out that I had missed answering a question I answered it. when it was pointed out that my spelling was annoying (after I gave my personal opinion that in casual writing it was unimportant) I started using spell check and also went back to all my previous posts and corrected the spelling there too. when you said that I had misread the tone of a question I immediately apologised.

at the risk of being personal...are you in a relationship? if so do you consider him at least as, if not more intelligent than yourself? if yes, is this part of his attraction?

xx

You couldnt ask this before i took the theraflu eh? Well i dont look at people the same way as you and a few others do here. I look for all around compatability and one may outweight the other but it all evens out in the end. I do think i am a way too complex person for anyone else then an intelligent person to find attractive, and by intelligent i do not mean book smart or high IQ...thats all just BS too me. The type of person i am with needs to know i know too much and all to well in this lifestyle and still be able to sneak in the back door, i dont think that requires a high IQ but i do believe it requires a person to know and see me well enough to know how to get that door opened. So no...intelligence in the dictionary sense of the word is not a requirment for me, wisdom, real life experience, and being trustworthy are probably the top 3 on my list.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Ok, I will put more than 2 pence and AA's flipped nickel in,

Will cover myself in readiness for the flames and bullets but I NEED to know

Pure was this questioned aimed at dolf being with someone she realised was stupid or at Kajira or Sir_Winston for mis-reading dolfs (who is a relatively new lit person and doesn't need jumped on) intention in the orginal post??


*ducks back under the cover of darkness*

my posts are not intended to "jump" on anyone, my intention was to help move the convo past the word stupid and nothing more.

 

[bridgeburner]

A bit off topic, but perhaps not....eh, fuck it I'm just gonna go with it.

First off, I didn't find the original post particularly ruffling. I empathize with it to a great degree and if that makes me a snob then so be it. The older I get the less fussed I am about my elitism. I don't think the moronic should have fewer rights than I, but I reserve the right not to spend my time with them. Sue me.

I've met quite a few self-proclaimed Doms and Dommes who I thought were dummer than a bag of hammers and while they might make perfectly compatible and desirable partners for others I wouldn't entertain the notion. Couldn't force myself to. That doesn't diminish their Domliness or my bottom identity in the least.

I don't think having standards or feeling snobbish (for those who prefer more value-laden terms) indicates that one is destined to be a Top. Top or bottom is at least as much about what you WANT as what you DO.


-B