Introducing Women's Erotica: a new subgenre of Erotica, and a necessary one

[ElectricBlue]

it is not a short story, Ellen and Alice are minor characters in a complete novel of Women's Fiction. I am exploring Lit and I guess that a complete novel (over 70 KWords, and multi-category) is too long and nuanced to be published as a Series in Lit.

The longest single story I've seen here on Lit was over 80 Lit pages, around 300,000 words.

I've heard anecdotally (I've not read it) the longest serial story here on Lit is pushing a million words - Tefler, I think, is the author's name. Whether its nuanced or not, I don't know, but I don't quite see what that's got to do with story length. You can do nuance in 750 words.

You might want to pop over to Novels and Novellas to see how other writers do it - and give yourself an idea of story length here on Lit. 70k words is just getting started for some authors - the dynamics don't really compare with paper publishing, which seems to be your frame of reference.

 

[NancyVeeners]

Dear readers and writers

this thread has reached fourteen pages, I am still amazed by the significant debate it generated. Thanks again to all the contributors, both on-topic and off-topic. I learned a lot in such a short time!

It is already difficult to find who said what, so if we want to continue the discussion I guess it would be a good idea to initiate a new thread. Unfortunately no group interested in pursuing the Women's Erotica experiment has emerged, so I have decided to abandon the WE project.

I have nothing against a different name (as I declared that in my proposal) but it is naive to believe it is easy to find. Indeed, nobody volunteered to pursue any "Emotional Erotica" project. Women's Erotica could be controversial, misleading, and problematic, but it is much more powerful.

And (like 'Women's Fiction') it IS inclusive, as I explained so many times I believe I am getting boring. I hope a male member of the WFWA could join the discussion.

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

Best

NV

 

[ElectricBlue]

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

I was out of town with a shitty device that only allowed me to read content, but not to respond, when this thread opened.

So I watched it go through every phase of a typical AH "Proclamation Thread" (as I call them), where someone new wanders into the forum (with a year old account and I dunno, fifteen posts? and announces some astonishing new pearl of wisdom that frankly, is not exactly new. In this case, I thought, gee, I bought a Womens' Erotica Anthology in about 1988, and sold it for a couple of bucks ten years later when I moved house, in a garage sale (yard sale, for the Yanks, car boot sale for the Poms - I think, and the Kiwis, a box by the side of the road? I dunno), because to be honest, it wasn't very good. Sort of a Barbara Cartland bodice ripper with a clitoris or two, and a couple on the cover, both with big hair. So I thought, forty years later, and here we have someone thinking, we need a new category? I don't think so. Thus demonstrating the context of, "I'm too old for this shit," and anyway, my older sister came out in 1972, before the Sydney Mardi-Gras was even thought of, so sexual politics, in my world, nothing new.

Then I went through the Groucho Marx phase where I'm thinking, do I want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member? Not sure about that one, but anyone who knows my content knows that I do slow burn intimacy and emotion quite well, and I've got both male and female fans who lap that stuff up. And I've had readers get terribly mixed up about my gender and not getting that right at all. Folk who know me here in the AH know, and anyone who actually reads my content would certainly figure it out, but with a quick cursory look at my profile and my avatar, maybe not. And what does it matter? There are several ace writers who are regulars here in the AH, and even now, years later, I'm still not sure what gender they go by. But who really cares? Who really knows?

My point is, it doesn't matter one bit what gender a writer goes by, or who they think their audience is, but to say, let's call some new category Womens' Erotica is the fastest way I have ever seen to alienate the other fifty percent (Bramble, no, I do NOT need to know the exact imbalance percentage of men versus women on this planet, let alone all those folk somewhere in between ).

So, in the interests of balance, I offer: Men's Shed Erotica.

And if I said that fourteen pages ago, can you imagine the kerfuffle that would have caused?

Seriously, isn't "erotica" just by itself enough?

Why does everyone have to put a badge on causes they believe in? Those causes are far far more convincing if the proponents just get off their soap boxes and put their heart into their story content - that's a lot more persuasive for me. If your heart is on your sleeve and embedded deep into your stories, I'll believe in you. If all you've got is a placard, not so much.

Your heart is absolutely in the right place, Nancy, but I think your notion of "what is needed" is at odds with what Literotica already offers, and has been offering for years. You also managed to curate a remarkably civilised thread, so cudos for that. Which also demonstrates, I think, that if you want engagement with a bunch of opinionated smut meisters, you've found it. Just don't bother about "new categories" - folk have been asking for Bisexual since about 2002, ain't happened yet.

Carry on

 

[Erozetta]

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

Best

NV

Pink Orchid 2022
Pink Orchid 2023
Pink Orchid 2024

Inclusive title.
All genders participating.
Stories focused on the women characters having agency and making sense within their stories.
Largely emotion driven stories.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Hello sis
it is not a short story, Ellen and Alice are minor characters in a complete novel of Women's Fiction. I am exploring Lit and I guess that a complete novel (over 70 KWords, and multi-category) is too long and nuanced to be published as a Series in Lit.

I have two novel-length stories here, each about 100k words, and there are many authors here with longer stories than mine.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

Why do we need that?

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

How exactly would that be "brave"?
Is there great danger?
Perhaps you should take out an advert...

Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success.

That one worked before, and that expedition couldn't possibly have been as risky as *checks notes* writing erotica with an emotional journey.

 

[NancyVeeners]

Pink Orchid 2022
Pink Orchid 2023
Pink Orchid 2024

Inclusive title.
All genders participating.
Stories focused on the women characters having agency and making sense within their stories.
Largely emotion driven stories.

I look forward to participating in Pink Orchid 2025, and thank you @Omenainen for creating the event. But it is a different project.
Cheers
NV

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Why do we need that?

Yea, we don't need any more simps. : P

 

[Erozetta]

I look forward to participating in Pink Orchid 2025, and thank you @Omenainen for creating the event. But it is a different project.
Cheers
NV

Yeah, it's a project about making sense, my bad.

 

[TheRedChamber]

How exactly would that be "brave"?
Is there great danger?
Perhaps you should take out an advert...

Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success.

That one worked before, and that expedition couldn't possibly have been as risky as *checks notes* writing erotica with an emotional journey.

Yea, we don't need any more simps. : P

Dejectedly putting my snow-shoes and my copy of the Feminine Mystique back in the wardrobe.

 

[Omenainen]

Indeed, nobody volunteered to pursue any "Emotional Erotica" project.

I don’t know what you mean by project. This is what many of us have been doing for years, or in some cases, decades. Just because it isn’t the first story you click on when stumbling on the site doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I don’t know what you mean by project. This is what many of us have been doing for years, or in some cases, decades. Just because it isn’t the first story you click on when stumbling on the site doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

But on lit it can be very difficult to find such stories. You want to fuck your Mom? A couple of clicks and you'll find a half-dozen new stories where she will sit in your lap. Want to get cucked? Likewise, within seconds you'll be up to your genitals in cuckolds. Want to find something steamy but also has some genuine character development and emotion beyond kinkiness? It's real hit and miss and it will take a while. You will probably need more than your 20 minute lunch break at work just to find it, let alone actually read any of it.

 

[NancyVeeners]

How exactly would that be "brave"?
Is there great danger?
Perhaps you should take out an advert...

Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success.

That one worked before, and that expedition couldn't possibly have been as risky as *checks notes* writing erotica with an emotional journey.

We need that little boy who wanted to play with the girls but was afraid to do so in the face of his mates playing football, and now is all grown up, "Come join us, big boy, don't be a pussy!"

 

[NancyVeeners]

How exactly would that be "brave"?
Is there great danger?
Perhaps you should take out an advert...

Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful. Honour and recognition in event of success.

That one worked before, and that expedition couldn't possibly have been as risky as *checks notes* writing erotica with an emotional journey.

"Come join us, big boy, don't be a pussy!"
The Patriarchy has oppressed women (and men!) for millennia through gendered language giving a negative meaning to many feminine terms. Gendered language is still here. "Wordslut" by Amanda Montell is the book to read.
Thanks for raising the theme!
NV

 

[Omenainen]

We need that little boy who wanted to play with the girls but was afraid to do so in the face of his mates playing football, and now is all grown up, "Come join us, big boy, don't be a pussy!"

I have to say, your ideas about gender seem pretty outdated. Welcome to Literotica. Things don’t have to be like that around here. You can leave your baggage at the door and focus on writing sizzling hot smut, or sappy emotional journeys, or whatever rocks your boat. We’re all in this together.

The Patriarchy has oppressed women (and men!) for millennia through gendered language giving a negative meaning to many feminine terms. Gendered language is still here.

And you think having more of the same will somehow solve the issue?

 

[Bramblethorn]

But on lit it can be very difficult to find such stories. You want to fuck your Mom? A couple of clicks and you'll find a half-dozen new stories where she will sit in your lap. Want to get cucked? Likewise, within seconds you'll be up to your genitals in cuckolds. Want to find something steamy but also has some genuine character development and emotion beyond kinkiness? It's real hit and miss and it will take a while. You will probably need more than your 20 minute lunch break at work just to find it, let alone actually read any of it.

I agree with "difficult to find" and I'd love for stories with good character development/emotion to be easier to find here. I think curated lists are probably a more effective way to do that than categories or tags, but that's an argument about means, not ends.

It's the implication that this kind of story is something new to Literotica, the suggestion that a 70k story would be too long and too nuanced for this site, that's rubbing me the wrong way.

 

[NancyVeeners]

I have to say, your ideas about gender seem pretty outdated. Welcome to Literotica. Things don’t have to be like that around here. You can leave your baggage at the door and focus on writing sizzling hot smut, or sappy emotional journeys, or whatever rocks your boat. We’re all in this together.



And you think having more of the same will somehow solve the issue?

Dear colleague
I like your contributions and I hope I will be able to answer all your posts properly, but it will take time. Getting to know your Pink Orchid event was one of the bonuses that made this thread valuable to me, and I look forward to participating in the challenge and supporting it.

focus on writing sizzling hot smut, or sappy emotional journeys, or whatever rocks your boat. We’re all in this together.

That's what I am doing in Lit, and having so much fun! It is such a wonderful and unique community and I am proud to be part of it. But I have so much to learn in here, so please be patient...

And you think having more of the same will somehow solve the issue?

No, I don't think so. It is an ironic remark, you may have noticed the note. But 'Don't be a pussy' is a lovely example of gendered language. Gendered language is a tricky issue to solve because it is 'language', almost impossible to erase and sometimes difficult even to detect. Politically correctness is ineffective and sometimes ridiculous. 'Having more of the same' (e.g. naming Women's Erotica' an inclusive community of writers of any gender) could be an ironic way to challenge it (and mocking the Patriarchy).

Cheers!

NV

 

[WhiteTailDarkTip]

one of my favourites (by @WhiteTailDarkTip) is over 3 categories and probably 90 words. Yours would find readers.

Hi @NancyVeeners It's getting on for 130k words and has its fans (see above). I certainly didn't intend to set out to write such a sprawling thing but I'm reasonably happy with it

 

[MelissaBaby]

I agree with "difficult to find" and I'd love for stories with good character development/emotion to be easier to find here. I think curated lists are probably a more effective way to do that than categories or tags, but that's an argument about means, not ends.

It's the implication that this kind of story is something new to Literotica, the suggestion that a 70k story would be too long and too nuanced for this site, that's rubbing me the wrong way.

I have felt that I was being condescended to since the first post. That was only made worse by the fact that the OP has not once answered any of my posts or addressed any of the points i made

The odd thing is, I feel like I'm exactly the sort of writer she would want for her project. I've published more than 70 stories, nearly all with red H's, all of which fit well into her criteria. I've also got 6 blue W's. My average score is over 4.80.

I'm not trying to be egotistic here, but doesn't it seem that she'd want me involved in whatever she tries to do here? But she has not engaged with me at all.

I guess it's more important to recruit the men.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I guess it's more important to recruit the men.

Sorry, I'm too busy playing football and feeling like a pussy about it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

"Come join us, big boy, don't be a pussy!"
The Patriarchy has oppressed women (and men!) for millennia through gendered language giving a negative meaning to many feminine terms. Gendered language is still here. "Wordslut" by Amanda Montell is the book to read.
Thanks for raising the theme!
NV

None of that answers my question.
There are plenty of men here writing erotica with well developed characters. They get rather good ratings and are in no danger.
So how precisely does one need to be "brave" to join your little tribe?

And advocating for Amanda Montell's patronizing little screed doesn't help your case that you desire to he inclusive.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I have felt that I was being condescended to since the first post. That was only made worse by the fact that the OP has not once answered any of my posts or addressed any of the points i made

The odd thing is, I feel like I'm exactly the sort of writer she would want for her project. I've published more than 70 stories, nearly all with red H's, all of which fit well into her criteria. I've also got 6 blue W's. My average score is over 4.80.

I'm not trying to be egotistic here, but doesn't it seem that she'd want me involved in whatever she tries to do here? But she has not engaged with me at all.

I guess it's more important to recruit the men.

OP is to busy "smashing the Patriarchy" or something, to engage you.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Dear readers and writers

.... Unfortunately no group interested in pursuing the Women's Erotica experiment has emerged, so I have decided to abandon the WE project.

.....

Let me be a bit provocative (please don't take offence, guys) but I believe that what we need is male writers of Erotica who are brave enough to join a "Women's Erotica" project.

Best

NV

Here lies the central issue with the OP's repeated theme in this thread: A 'GROUP' has not "emerged" to handle the concept, and 'male writers' are not brave enough to help with it.


Sounds like someone's standing on a soapbox shouting "Somebody else needs to do something for me! And you men are COWARDS for not doing it!"


Well, IMO, Omenainen ACTUALLY DID do 'something like that' starting years ago with the annual Pink Orchid, and at least one (probably others, too) 'cowardly male writer' participated (this one is just a shitty writer, and even using the term writer is generously patting myself on the back).

In my opinion, the one standing on the soapbox and shouting, KNOWS they are right, and that "nobody does anything and cowardly male writers won't ever allow anything to be done or support it". And anyone trying to disprove any of that "just doesn't understand, so I'll ignore them!!!!"

Keep up the good work, you talented writers, and have fun writing. It's a free site, and "you get what you pay for!"


EDIT: And this cowardly male writer might once again participate in the next Pink Orchid challenge. (And O thinks, "Oh, for the love of god, Lifestyle66, not again!!!! Please don't ask me to read it!)

 

[NancyVeeners]

I have felt that I was being condescended to since the first post. That was only made worse by the fact that the OP has not once answered any of my posts or addressed any of the points i made

The odd thing is, I feel like I'm exactly the sort of writer she would want for her project. I've published more than 70 stories, nearly all with red H's, all of which fit well into her criteria. I've also got 6 blue W's. My average score is over 4.80.

I'm not trying to be egotistic here, but doesn't it seem that she'd want me involved in whatever she tries to do here? But she has not engaged with me at all.

I guess it's more important to recruit the men.

Dear Colleague
first of all, let me apologize for overlooking all your contributions. It was not intended, I was just overwhelmed by the unexpectedly numerous responses to my proposal and (being new to the Forum) I was unable to cope.

I guess it's more important to recruit the men.

This is not the case! Ideally, I'd like an equally balanced group including women, men, and fluid genders. But it is just wishful thinking, because no group has emerged so far. This is why I decided to abandon the project. Your interest comes out of the blue to me, and makes me hopeful again. Given your outstanding status as a writer, your endorsement could be a game-changer.

I'll go back to your previous posts now, but I look forward even more to your opinions now at the end of the emotional journey

Meanwhile, thank you so much!

Cheers!

NV