Introducing Women's Erotica: a new subgenre of Erotica, and a necessary one

[Jackie.Hikaru]

Regardless of how I feel about this thread's topic, I must commend the OP for her respectful and gracious responses.

Anyways here is Felicity Jones standing in a field.
*sigh*

 

[SimonDoom]

But it is just wishful thinking, because no group has emerged so far. This is why I decided to abandon the project. Your interest comes out of the blue to me, and makes me hopeful again.

There's no need to "abandon" your project. Instead, adapt to the input you've received and reshape it.

This site is run by two people, and change comes slowly. Think about how you might achieve your aims regarding the types of stories you like within the existing structure. Some people have offered some ideas about that.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The longest single story I've seen here on Lit was over 80 Lit pages, around 300,000 words.

I've heard anecdotally (I've not read it) the longest serial story here on Lit is pushing a million words - Tefler, I think, is the author's name. Whether its nuanced or not, I don't know, but I don't quite see what that's got to do with story length. You can do nuance in 750 words.

You might want to pop over to Novels and Novellas to see how other writers do it - and give yourself an idea of story length here on Lit. 70k words is just getting started for some authors - the dynamics don't really compare with paper publishing, which seems to be your frame of reference.

Tefler's Three Square Meals is not a particularly nuanced story. Not in the first 12 chapters, anyway. I'm not sure how far into it you'd need to get before you'd find two female characters talking about anything other than how great the main character is at fucking, but it's more than 100,000 words.

 

[dadadadiox]

. I am exploring Lit and I guess that a complete novel (over 70 KWords, and multi-category) is too long and nuanced to be published as a Series in Lit.

I could not disagree more. I am currently on my sixth series on Lit. Only one of those series is under 70k words. Combined, they are over a million. Half are in the non-erotic category the rest in Romance. I don’t have a large following but there are many loyal readers.

Literotica is filled with readers looking for the long form. I’ve had some tell me they dislike one-offs as they prefer a story with fully developed characters they care about.

 

[Omenainen]

EDIT: And this cowardly male writer might once again participate in the next Pink Orchid challenge. (And O thinks, "Oh, for the love of god, Lifestyle66, not again!!!! Please don't ask me to read it!)

You know, you’re annoying as all hell, but you do have your moments.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Popcorn isn't optional in this thread, it seems. All the rational and valid points have already been said and discussed in the first three or four pages of this thread, yet people can't seem to stop making the same arguments over and over and over again, hoping that the twentieth time will be the charm, and clearly trying to prove Einstein wrong.
Also, the many thumbs-ups that some conceited posts get leave me baffled.

@NancyVeeners, even if I expressed my reservations about the name of your subgenre, I wish you good luck with it. Do what you feel is right, and others can do what they feel is right. This doesn't need to be a unanimous thing. Everyone can create their own lists and call them what they want to call them. Either way, I seriously doubt there is anything more that can be accomplished by discussing this subject further in this thread.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Popcorn isn't optional in this thread, it seems. All the rational and valid points have already been said and discussed in the first three or four pages of this thread, yet people can't seem to stop making the same arguments over and over and over again, hoping that the twentieth time will be the charm, and clearly trying to prove Einstein wrong.
Also, the many thumbs-ups that some conceited posts get leave me baffled.

@NancyVeeners, even if I expressed my reservations about the name of your subgenre, I wish you good luck with it. Do what you feel is right, and others can do what they feel is right. This doesn't need to be a unanimous thing. Everyone can create their own lists and call them what they want to call them. Either way, I seriously doubt there is anything more that can be accomplished by discussing this subject further in this thread.

People stating the same things over and over and over. Trying to impress their opinions.

Sounds like every argument I've been involved in...
Cagivagurl

 

[Lifestyle66]

You know, you’re annoying as all hell, but you do have your moments.

You know, I really do respect your opinions. In fact, I think if you read all of my stories in the sequence I wrote them, you'll find one major change I've incorporated shortly after participating in Pink Orchid three years ago. In all of my later stories the change comes from you: "Why would she do that?"

I think that's why you didn't like "Maneater". You couldn't hate the MFC, because she explained WHY she did everything in that story. You couldn't "love" her because she's abrasive and manipulative, but you couldn't hate her either.

So, Thank you, O. You made me think!

 

[gemma_grant]

Erotica is erotica, it's just women need to feel themselves into the minds of the stuff they're reading, rather than just visualising sexual actions. For example if I was being bent over a pommel horse I'd want to know what it felt like, the leather on my skin, the chafing, the heat, dribbling over the leather etc. I'm guessing most man are standing outside, looking in, watching the woman get pummelled by a bloke over a piece of gym kit, so it's more about the visual and the action than the emotion and feelings. So yes, women want different things to turn them on than most men in film and writing, but it can still be damn filthy and painful too, rather than the fifty shades nonsense.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Erotica is erotica, it's just women need to feel themselves into the minds of the stuff they're reading, rather than just visualising sexual actions. For example if I was being bent over a pommel horse I'd want to know what it felt like, the leather on my skin, the chafing, the heat, dribbling over the leather etc. I'm guessing most man are standing outside, looking in, watching the woman get pummelled by a bloke over a piece of gym kit, so it's more about the visual and the action than the emotion and feelings. So yes, women want different things to turn them on than most men in film and writing, but it can still be damn filthy and painful too, rather than the fifty shades nonsense.

Thank you for this (might I say) perfect explanation of "women's erotica"!


I realized some time ago that the differences may be due to the POV in sex when achieving an orgasm. By their very physical placement, men can see themselves penetrating and that visual from their perspective in any position can itself be exciting.

But when thinking of my female partner's POV, she can't see me penetrating her. She can see my upper body looming over her, my chest, shoulders and head. But she can't see anything "down there", only feeling it. So, if she orgasms, the only visual she might associate with that orgasm is that which she sees. That may be why women need those descriptions as you've indicated. It's those things other than the visual which they associate when achieving an orgasm. But for men, merely seeing the visual of their throbbing member inside a women in any position is all they need, with the rest of those descriptions being more of a distraction.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But when thinking of my female partner's POV, she can't see me penetrating her.

Mirrors come in handy. (blush)

 

[Erozetta]

Mirrors come in handy. (blush)

I didn't want to be the one to say it, so thank you.

 

[AG31]

Erotica is erotica, it's just women need to feel themselves into the minds of the stuff they're reading, rather than just visualising sexual actions. For example if I was being bent over a pommel horse I'd want to know what it felt like, the leather on my skin, the chafing, the heat, dribbling over the leather etc. I'm guessing most man are standing outside, looking in, watching the woman get pummelled by a bloke over a piece of gym kit, so it's more about the visual and the action than the emotion and feelings. So yes, women want different things to turn them on than most men in film and writing, but it can still be damn filthy and painful too, rather than the fifty shades nonsense.

I think a man interested in writing would share this perspective. Maybe he'd have a different perspective walking down the street, but once you get into story telling, I don't think there's a clear line between what pleases men and what pleases women.

 

[Lifestyle66]

Mirrors come in handy. (blush)

Blushing? LOL

When my wife and I were putting our townhouse on the market to sell, she was taking the realtor through to get advice on staging it (furnishings, colors, etc) to make it appeal to potential buyers. In the master bedroom, the realtor said "Your should take down that large mirror next to the bed."
My wife didn't blush when she said. "And I guess we should take the tether attachment rings off the back of the headboard, too, just in case."

That 3 feet by 4-foot mirror in mounted on the wall next to the bed of our current house, so the wife can watch us from the side when I'm in her. When I asked her if she'd prefer that I mount it on the ceiling, she said "Why would I want to look up at the ceiling at your bare ass? I want to see it going into me from the side when my legs are up!"

She doesn't blush when telling that to ALL of her friends.

EDIT: But in my experience (particularly with my first wife), most women don't like watching porn and prefer the lights off in the bedroom. They're not into the visuals. But my current wife will come into the living room after a shower, still naked as she goes to the ottoman to retrieve toys, blanket, and lube saying "I feel like a video tonight." That's her signal for me to select a porn video on the TV and we're about to play on the living room floor.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Blushing? LOL

I'm shy. (pouts)

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I think a more accurate generalization might be that men don't like to admit they like tearjerkers.

I really don't like them, but I'm not emotional enough to know what movies would be, or would be, to me. I admit that I have been gotten as an adult a few times and cried.

Marley and Me, Meet The Robinsons, and Click has made me cry. A Silent Voice almost got me. I got a bit teary when I was writing the last chapter of a fanfic, once. A fic in the same fandom, about got me, and fucked with my depression, because it was extremely relatable.

Maybe some guys would be more emotional if it were something relatable. I'm a huge gearhead, but it's not like I was brought to tears, when the DMC-12 got hit by that train, or the two times Herbie about got killed.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I do not really understand the problem.

There should simply be a category for stories the writer assume are suited to be read by woman. The discussion about how to define what is suited for women is from my view useless. From my view more is not neccessary.

Porn is mainly a male thing as also prostitution is. The main focus of porn and prostitution is the sexual act without any or less emotional binding. It is typically male to get sexual satisfaction from changeable counterparts, optic impressions and intercourse without or less emotional binding. I wrote "typically" as I know that there are also excemptions from that rule.

Thats all. That alone would help. Women with different needs will find what they look for in the other sectiuons. We may find something in the new section. I would not blame anybody for putting in a story which does not fit my taste. I am used to that LOL.

Yes, I am sure, that there wil be rants from other women that someone has put in some ugly mens fantasies but thats life.

There may not be a catagory, but there are at least a few catagories where a "woman's erotica" could fit just fine. Erotic Couplings, and Romance for example. Even Loving Wives could have such a story, whether they like it or not. People write what they like and wanna. Honestly... an emotional driven story can mean anything, from love to lust. Finding a good story can be hard, but being picky is a personal problem. There won't be a new catagory, but one could always find the right tags to add, like; Emotional or Erotica.

I'm working on two emotionally driven stories. One of them has a character driven by lust and obsession, but it still counts. A good number of my stories aren't just basic, a means to an end, smut.

 

[Sappho_CGN]

@M_K_Babalon

LOL
my both stories are a bit of the opppsite. They are focussed on the "action" but I want to show the feelings in detail. So, you can call them "smut" with "feeling" LOL

(and still I think, they are much more for women than others).

I try now more story and that takes much more time, for that I started a new story in "my style", too.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

This is another indictment of the category system and how poorly it has been thought out and designed. The system can't even get it's dimensions straight. The entire category of Novels/Novellas could be replaced with simply putting word counts on the story card (!! hel-LO??). What makes a BDSM story suddenly a novel? The word count? Once it's over 40k words it is no longer BDSM? Facetious questions I know, but I'm making a point and that is that story length should not be it's own category. ANY category can have a long chaptered story. Indeed, most writers place their epic series into specific categories and not N/N anyways. Likewise, Audio and illustrated should not be categories. ANY story should be able to submit an audio track or a visual. An anal story done in audio should still be in anal. A horror story done with illustrations should still be in erotic horror. It's silly to move these to a grab bag category where anal or horror fans will miss it.

I know with SexStories, there's catagories and subcatagories. For writers that for lack of a better term; write broadly, could benefit them well. We'd have less "Where should my about Freddy Kruger anally fucking me in my dreams, while I'm caught in some trap to keep me from escaping, go?" threads.

Lush is considering getting rid of their Novels catagory. I said it there; Lush, and to some degree, here, by the way both sites function, aren't really novel friendly. You do bring up a point I hadn't thought of; it is kinda a useless catagory given one can just put a novella to novel length story anywhere. The section has been called a catchall, like EC is.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I can agree with that, but so long as the site uses a category system to help people find stuff, it should have all of the appropriate categories. As it is, it does not - far from it. There is no appropriate place for stories that are more character-driven, plot-driven, or emotionally-based as opposed to kink-based (unless they conform to the rigid cookie-cutter of romance).

If we want to just do away with categories altogether and move to a more comprehensive tag system I'm fine with that too, but I'm sure that you'll get far far far more pushback from the general population for that than simply adding some new categories and doing a little shuffling.

The vast majority of book stores sort their wares by ... categories, and while they are far from perfect, they work reasonably well (obviously, tagging isn't very practical for bound trees).

I have a character, and emotionally driven story, in Incest. Two, actually.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I could not disagree more. I am currently on my sixth series on Lit. Only one of those series is under 70k words. Combined, they are over a million. Half are in the non-erotic category the rest in Romance. I don’t have a large following but there are many loyal readers.

Literotica is filled with readers looking for the long form. I’ve had some tell me they dislike one-offs as they prefer a story with fully developed characters they care about.

There's long form preferenced readers everywhere. I however, if I can help it, rather not be writing novels I'm not getting paid for.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

@M_K_Babalon

LOL
my both stories are a bit of the opppsite. They are focussed on the "action" but I want to show the feelings in detail. So, you can call them "smut" with "feeling" LOL

(and still I think, they are much more for women than others).

I try now more story and that takes much more time, for that I started a new story in "my style", too.

Both can be done. Emotion and action.

 

[secretLace]

Wow, I managed to get through the 17 pages.
All valid points have been made and if I would have a project like this, I would go the TAGS route. Curate an extensive list of stories you feel fit your theme and then contact the authors with a sugestion to add the TAG 'Emotional depth' or something similar while explaining that you want to trend that tag to make it visible in the tag cloud and thus searchable and visible.

I for one would see that as a worthy thing to put some work into and change the tags on the stories you felt rang true. The tag could as it is today is rather wild so it would take some effort but I think it would be worth it and then people could start adding the tag to their new stories as it becomes more visible.

Voila, you have an easy way of searching emotion-centric stories.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Wow, I managed to get through the 17 pages.

Voila, you have an easy way of searching emotion-centric stories.

I think the OP has wandered off.

I can't see many authors re-tagging their stories, since to do that requires a resubmission. The OP could generate her own list, using whatever criteria she chooses, but that would be up to her.