Is a safe word counterproductive for extremely novice submissives?

[SierraMoon]

Re: Green, Yellow, Red: Don't leave home without 'em!

These are the standards for a reason: they work. You cannot get them confused with any other words. No one is going to scream RED! Fucking RED RED RED RED! by accident, either.

To be totally honest.. without those three little words, i doubt i would have tried some of the things that i've tried with my Dom... Just knowing that if something gets to be too much, all i have to do is say one little word, and it will slow down, or stop, makes it much easier to try things that i probably wouldn't normally... everyone has been telling me that my Dom and i are playing hard already, and it's only been 2 skin-to-skin sessions with us.. if that is true, it is because of these words, that i am able to do it. i do not take them lightly, and do not use them, unless absolutely necessary.
sierra

 

["angel" eve]

i'm admitting i'm new to the concept of BDSM. in practice i know a bit, the principals of BDSM i feel i've learned about quite throughly. both in kinky vanilla relationships, and experimental BDSM relationships (niether of us with any training formally) i've always trusted my parter to understand that stop means stop. and they trust me to be able to judge my limits. and vice versa when i'm playing dominant. none of my relationships have ever been formal - so the use of "stop" seems rather approproiate. similarly "don't" means don't do what you are doing, i don't like it, and may call for talking about the problme that has arrisen. as many of the posts have mentioned already, i believe it is an absolutely abhorant idea to get involved with someone you don't trust to know their own limits. be those limits of experience, knowledge or physical limist or psychological limits. limits can be broken, with time, patience, and trust. some may never be broken. the key is talking in any kind of sexual relationship. a sub who said no to something, may change their mind and be willing to try it another day, in the future, be it after more talking, or just more experience. limits change. but if it's been said no to previously obviousy that calls for the issue to be talked about before making another attempt. the same of course goes for someone "playing" dominant. i am not a dom, but in most sex play with my girlfriend i "play" that role. i have my limits too. there are things i know i don't have enough knowledge about, or feel comfortable with that i have refused to try, even thougght i know she is interested in trying. i know she's interested because we talk. thatz all i can really say about any relationship. sexual or not.

to further back up my point...

my first foray into anal sex was... rather unromantic. rather unsexy. but... i wasn't scared, i could relax, and i enjoyed the sensation. it left me wanting to try it again.
it was unsexy because he talked me through it... told me what he was doing, kept asking me if i was alright, if i was enjoying it, if i wanted to stop. he told me he was enjoying it, and i know he was, but he was still very concerned about how i was feeling. there was no pressure. no, it wasn't romantic, i joked after about having felt a bit like a science experiment, but the really important thing is, yes, for a few seconds he hurt me. but he waited for me to deal with the pain, and say that i was ready to try again if that is what i wanted. overall it was a pleasant experience, and one where i gained alot of trust for my partner, and learned more about my limits. yes, my limits were pushed, but i was completely willing to be pushed. a safe word is for the purpose of being able to feel comfortable and enjoy what you are participating in.

 

[cymbidia]

I've reversed the order of your words as you posted them, "angel" eve. I did it for a reason. I ask your patience with what could feel impudent on my part in this matter.

a safe word is for the purpose of being able to feel comfortable and enjoy what you are participating in.

I'm in feverent and total agreement. Safe words exist so we can feel safe and comfortable playing harder than we might feel were the measures not in place. You are 100% correct.

i've always trusted my parter to understand that stop means stop. and they trust me to be able to judge my limits. and vice versa when i'm playing dominant. none of my relationships have ever been formal - so the use of "stop" seems rather approproiate. similarly "don't" means don't do what you are doing, i don't like it, and may call for talking about the problme that has arrisen.

Ooooooooooooh, darlin'.

Two mornings ago i was playing with my play partner. I was bound tightly, sitting in an armless chair, like a dining room chair. My hands were locked into cuffs and then locked to a spreader bar that was in place benath the chair seat. My ankles were locked into cuffs and then tied together with rope - and the rope was tied to the spreader bar under the chair.

At various points in our play, he was using a leather slapper and a couple different canes on the fronts of my thighs, from the tops or each leg down almost to my knees.

At a bunch of places during that play, i was screaming (around the gag, as it turned out) NONONONONONONONO! and OH GOD DON'T! and FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP!

He didn't stop, though.

Not for that kinda yelling, those words.

However, the second i screamed YELLOW! he slowed it down. He looked into my face. He racheted-up his attention on my breathing on my sweating on my face, my eyes, my hands - all the parts of me that could tell him anything about my condition, physical or emotional.

That's what YELLOW means in our play.

Those other words?
They get screamed with astounding regularity when someone is using a fucking leather slapper on me and it's bruising me and we both know it. I scream. I yell. I swear. I squirm. I want it. I need it. I'm processing it. It's intense. I ache for it and fear it and crave it...

But unless i say the words GREEN or YELLOW or RED, he doesn't have to change his actions to suit me.

When i say YELLOW or RED, however, he does have to change his actions to suit my needs.

If he does not, then he's violated the basic quality of the trust relationship we're building with every single minute we spend together, playing or not. If my trust is violated, what kind of a fucking fool would i be to get anywhere near him and his canes again?

If he violates my trust with regard to safewords, then there is nothing of any value between us anymore. He knows it. So do i. A lot rides on using safewords correctly. It's important, then, to have clear and unambiguous safe words, is it not?

However, i know i'm safe during our play because he doesn't ever have to guess and wonder. He never has to think, "Does "STOP" mean stop everything right now or does it mean slow down so i can breathe or does it mean oh gods keep going keep going i just have to scream something because this is so powerful, so real, so immediate and i just have scream?"

We, the SSC BDSM subculture of worldwide society, use safe words because they keep us safe, dominant and submissive, top and bottom, sadist and masochist.

The words can be GIRAFFE and ZEBRA and ELEPHANT
or
PANSY and PETUNIA and ROSE
or
FORD and CHEVY and MITSUBISHI

The words don't matter.

All that matters is that both people feel safe in what they're doing. The word STOP is a word that is too easily screamed in the heat of play for me (and most) others to use as a safe word. Same with DON'T.

Safe words are supposed to be words that are really easy for both people involved to remember. One doesn't want to have to try to remember if it was CALIFORNIA or NEW YORK that meant "slow down" while one is in the middle of things, right?

GREEN, YELLOW, and RED are the standards - but many people use others. STOP and DON'T, though, aren't often among the words most of us choose to use. They fall out of our mouths too easily, and too often they mean something entirely different then "stop" or "don't".

Especially for those new to this, i'd urge you - most sincerely - to use words other than STOP or DON'T to mean "stop that right now" and/or "slow it down so i can breathe, so i won't freak, so i can process this". Please.

 

[SpectreT]

Gremlin
Elephant
Rhubarb

Are those good examples? Easy to remember, similar to the color scheme, artificial enough no-one is likely to use them without need.

I know it's possible to speak around a ball gag. Big mouth like mine, it's possible to clearly ennunciate around small-to-mid-sized ball gags. I still like hand signals and hummed tunes through or around gags for safeword situations. I mention both simply because of a sudden case of sinus congestion that caught me once while I was indulging in a little self-bondage. I suddenly realized I couldn't hum clearly if I tried.

remember folks: Rhubarb means NO!

 

[cymbidia]

remember folks: Rhubarb means NO!

You're poking at me now, aren't you, T?

 

[SpectreT]

You're poking at me now, aren't you, T?

Y'know, I totally missed that. My subconscious is slicker than I am!

Actually, I thought of Rutebega, but that seemed like too much of a mouthfull when the game's over. Now. This damn second. I switched it to Rhubarb because those two words make up most of the "crowd noise".

I also saw an opportunity to throw in my two cents' worth on gagged safe words.

 

[Pure]

Pain scene fetish:

Hollowcat/Mistress Aubrianna wrote:

I and my sub have multiple signals for how far is too far. Even after being together for six years as a couple you still can't always read signals exactly correctly. As far as ungaged safe words go we have one for green light ie: your not going far enough, please push me farther, one for yellow light: I'm not sure how much more I can take, please slow down. [end]

Well, every couple has their way. But there's no reason to call every 'scene' dominance/submission, in my opinion. There seems to be a lot of confusion; that if you like a 'pain' scene, you are a submissive.

I'd prefer to call it a 'pain fetish' in that is satisfied like any other, *according to the fetishist's specifications*, just as if I persuade my partner to dress up like a police officer.

In my own terms, I'd call the sub described, a pain fetishist, and it certainly seems like s/he controls the show. The GREEN signal of "more" gives the 'game' away. The signaler is in control.

What of the mistress/master in such a case? I'd say they are possibly the subs, in that they serve (to get a person off, according to that person's specifications). Maybe they are just
'service providers' --- like any others. If there's love or liking, the
'service' is free; if not, it's for a fee, not unlike a fetishist paying someone to come visit, dressed as a police officer and do pre-agreed routines.

All of us who've had a fetish know the tendancy to control; THIS is how it must be: *Latex crotchless* NOT pvc with a zipper.
I see no reason to say that a partner trying to please is, here, in any kind of master/mistress position. The same applies to the person reacting to green and yellow lights. They provide a needed, perhaps wonderful service, and there's no reason to call what they're doing 'domination.'

This is not unlike a situation elsewhere referred to when the 'sub' so called, presents a list of preferred ways of getting off, to the dom/me, to shape (perhaps control) the latter's plans. The 'sub' here, like the one issuing the 'green light' --MORE!-- signal, is controlling the scene.

 

[lark sparrow]

I think so.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Bump

 

[astralkiss]

Personally, I have no RL sub experience (a shitload of studying and online training ), but there would be no way in hell I would participate in any play or relationship where the safe word would not be respected.

Sometimes, there are limits that the dom/me does not know the sub has, physically or mentally. Although BDSM can sometmes be about pushing those limits, from what I understand, the dom/me should also respect those limits and only push if the pushing is expected.

Personally, I'd rather use my safe word than end up really hurt or completely distrusting my dom.

But I guess that's just my personal opinion

RFLY

Betta

or Technically

Lady Elisabeth Yuna Catarina MAria ARiana juliana....aw....forget it...sick of writing my name out.. *L*

 

[Bjarni]

After reading the thread and finding that it wasn't advocating the abolition of safe words I had a think about it and realised that without a safe word I seriously doubt that Tyiana and I would have got into this at all. Then I began to wonder if it might actually depend on the dom. Granted an experienced dom who knew the new sub very well may not feel the need for one, what about those like Tyiana and Myself, neither of us had any experience until that first time and it certainly made me feel better to know that if I missed anything she could let me know in a totally unmistakeable way.