Is erotica sexual harassment?

[MillieDynamite]

I can answer for him. Of course, he does have characters derived from real life, but he doesn't use their names or make them identifiable. We all do that, don't we? Whole cloth is so difficult with out a guide of one kind or another.

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

Actually, yes. I’ve incorporated some things about people I’ve known and situations I’ve been in personally, but never to any great depth.

Where do I find my characters? Oddly enough, if I do some very early planning and decide a yarn is going to involve, say, a ripped bodybuilder, I’ll do an image search, maybe adding details like hair colour, age, etc. there are billions of images on the net and some of them show a great deal of character. I’ll choose three or four and see what they have to say to me in terms of likely personality and how well it all fits in with my fetal story. It looks weird to write it out like that, but it works for me.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I can answer for him. Of course, he does have characters derived from real life, but he doesn't use their names or make them identifiable. We all do that, don't we? Whole cloth is so difficult with out a guide of one kind or another.

That's what I meant about the context - the time period actually - being important. In 2022 I could write a story that has "identifiable" people in it from 1974. The building, the room, and even the view out the window makes it all clear, among a lot of other things. Fortunately, there was no Lit back then. I might have been tripped up because I needed to establish my sorely-lacking hip credentials and likely people would have known I wrote erotic materials. It's all speculation, of course. For one thing, I couldn't write very well back then!

Does the OP find this useful?

P.S.: The portraits of those real people are not so flattering.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I do, so, for me, that's all that matters.

That's what I meant about the context - the time period actually - being important. In 2022 I could write a story that has "identifiable" people in it from 1974. The building, the room, and even the view out the window makes it all clear, among a lot of other things. Fortunately, there was no Lit back then. I might have been tripped up because I needed to establish my sorely-lacking hip credentials and likely people would have known I wrote erotic materials. It's all speculation, of course. For one thing, I couldn't write very well back then!

Does the OP find this useful?

P.S.: The portraits of those real people are not so flattering.

 

[STrent]

I feel like enough good advice has been given in this thread.

The bottom line is don’t make the characters identifiable. If you’re creating fictional situations with real people, don’t make them identifiable as real people.

Honestly, I think @SimonDoom was spot on a few pages ago - and I apologise, I want to make it clear, when I say “change the names” I am referring to that in the specific context of the characters being in fictional settings doing fictional things.

I am not suggesting “just change the names” as an easy win to avoid litigation. That is obviously wrong.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I feel like enough good advice has been given in this thread.

The bottom line is don’t make the characters identifiable. If you’re creating fictional situations with real people, don’t make them identifiable as real people.

Honestly, I think @SimonDoom was spot on a few pages ago - and I apologise, I want to make it clear, when I say “change the names” I am referring to that in the specific context of the characters being in fictional settings doing fictional things.

I am not suggesting “just change the names” as an easy win to avoid litigation. That is obviously wrong.

In the situations that I've been speculating about, litigation is extremely unlikely. Embarrassment is much less so. There are certainly enough real-life and social media missteps that can be quite embarrassing. I think most of us have been through a few.

 

[SimonDoom]

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

No. Many of my characters are based in some way on people I've actually known, but unless I get permission I change enough things that there's no reasonable possibility that anybody reading my story will connect the character in my story with a real person.

I've written several stories based in some way or another on real people who authorized me to write the story. In that case, getting permission was the key.

I've written stories where in my mind's eye the character looked like a woman I've known, and I've described her in some ways as looking like that woman. But the details are sufficiently fuzzy that there's no way anybody's ever going to connect the dots.

I don't think there's anything wrong, for instance, if you've got an erotic memory about a particular person, about writing a story with a character that you describe as looking like that person, as long as you change enough things that nobody will make the connection. I'm doing that right now. I'm writing a story about a woman who, in my mind, looks exactly like a woman I dated once, and I'm going to describe her as looking that way. But her name, her job, and the setting will be different. So there will be no way anyone could ever say that in a meaningful way I was writing about this particular person.

 

[KeithD]

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

Pretty much, yes. Or amalgams of people I've observed. What is your motivation for writing erotica about people close to you in real detail who you are worried about seeing themselves in your stories?

I was burned on this once and that was enough. In the mainstream I wrote a published book of short stories over twenty years ago. At the base of some of the stories were people I knew of--never by identifiable names or physical description and not erotica. Our neighbors, an older couple had moved in because their daughter lived in town. He had worked for a major company as a chemist and unknowingly at the time was bringing carcinogenic chemicals home on his clothes. His daughter caught a rare cancer and was slowly dying. (His wife later died of it as well.) Some of the stories in my anthology were ones of "it's not what it looks like." I included a story with this basis about a man coming home from work and reading to his daughter on his lap in a relationship that went south when she grew up. I wrote it so that the reader could choose to believe the story was about forced incest and the fallout from that. Near the end the "unknowingly brought cancer home from work" issue was revealed. In the eleventh hour of the anthology getting published I realized that the neighbors would surely see the book and know one of the stories was about them--and what it suggested, no matter how declared untrue. I pulled the book back, rewrote the story, and swallowed a hefty retooling charge. Since then I've been very careful (although not totally successfully) about who will see what I've written and how/whether they can see themselves in it.

You've gotten a little defensive/belligerent on this point. I've been to a good many rodeos on this issue. This is the last I've post about it other than to reiterate that, especially since you've brought it up and therefore see it as a possible problem, that you carefully consider your motivation and the effect it might have on your relationship with a person you are closely including in a story--and quite possibly with a lot more people around you as well. I'm not getting the vibe that you are "getting it."

And, yes, you can have the connection to a real person made without you intending it to. Right here on Literotica, I once inadvertently used a real name (just the given name) for a person in a real position at an embassy where I worked. No way anyone in the Literotica world would know about me in my real world, I would have assumed, even if I thought about it. Well, just from the one name of someone serving in a U.S embassy at a particular time (matching it from scenarios in some of my other stories), someone here on Literotica unraveled time, place, event, and me in real life. She didn't out me, but she had me and my real life penned down. I certainly would not want the person whose real name I inadvertently used to find out about this even though I hadn't written anything derogatory about that person.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Artists draw inspiration from their surroundings/environments all the time. In fact, I can’t imagine where else one would draw their inspiration from aside from divine or demonic intervention. My question is both legal and ethical: is it sexual harassment to publish stories on this site that include characters which are inspired by/based on/look like real people? I’m not talking celebrities; that’s aside the point here, as I’ve already seen celebrities being discussed in Reddit threads. I’m talking about regular civilians you know or even strangers you have seen. I’m also asking both with and without the consent of the person. Is it sexual harassment? Is it illegal? Is it immoral? Is there any precedent behind this issue?

Writers are influenced by everything around them...
Either openly or subconsciously. What they see, what they hear, what they read. All of those things work together to produce the characters that live within those written words.
I can't speak of the legal issues because I don't know.
If you have used somebody you know as the broad character you have described, that's fine. They will never know, and no will anybody else.
For me the line never to cross would be naming them...
Making it clearly obvious who the character was.
Maybe...
Just my thoughts
Cagivagurl

 

[MillieDynamite]

I saw a guy in a community theater play one-time several years back. Absolutely terrible actor. But he had this thing he did when he delivered his lines. He rocked on his feet, back and forth, all the while, his clutching and unclutching his hands. It was nervous energy, stage fright, or something. The actions he had have stuck with me, and I have always wanted to put them in a story. I may have, but I am not sure. Sure as shit, I'll do it either for the first time or another time at some point.

 

[intim8]

Are the people that know him, casually or closely, going to read it and go, "OMG, that's Fred Smith!" If so, you're crossing the line. Maybe not legally, but ethically.

And are those people going also going to connect the dots: "Wait, is 'fakeLitName' somebody we know that also knows Fred?" Then they start looking around... it can get toxic depending on how "Fred Smith", or the writer, come off in the story.

Aside from that, it is a bit chilling that this question is even being asked. Not blaming OP, but this is the kind of "trial balloon" question that, if asked by certain people or in certain circles, can signal, or even induce, a coming wave of censorship.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Let me ask you a question then: are all your characters taken out of thin air/made up out of whole cloth, without any resemblance to real people you’ve seen?

For myself: many of my characters are influenced by real people, but rarely just the one and usually with modification. For instance, Nadja from Loss Function has some speech patterns borrowed from a Russian co-worker, but I also gave her some that don't come from the co-worker. She has difficulty apologising for anything, so when she realises she's fucked up instead of saying "I'm sorry" she'll do nice things for people - that's a trait I took from somebody close to me, but the reasons behind it are quite different. There are bits of me in there too.

Somebody who knew me and my friends well might look at her and say "oh, I see where this bit came from". But it's pieces, not the whole person. Even if somebody who knew my co-worker read this and realised that I'd borrowed her speech patterns, I doubt they'd take the rest of the story as a reflection on that person.

 

[Britva415]

I'm surprised not one person seems to have pointed out that the single most damning identifying feature of a real-life person who got turned into a character in a Lit story is their relationship with the author.

So.

@madelinemasoch Do you expect that readers could figure out who you are, based on the content of your stories?

If nobody knows who you are, they aren't going to connect characters in your stories to people you know in real life unless you full-on dox them. Which probably won't get past publishing approval.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I'm surprised not one person seems to have pointed out that the single most damning identifying feature of a real-life person who got turned into a character in a Lit story is their relationship with the author.

So.

@madelinemasoch Do you expect that readers could figure out who you are, based on the content of your stories?

If nobody knows who you are, they aren't going to connect characters in your stories to people you know in real life unless you full-on dox them. Which probably won't get past publishing approval.

This is going to hugely depends on the traits of the author.
Joe Whitebread goes to college and fantasises about a pretty mainstream pretty girl? Must be millions of them.
A guide-dog owner goes to fetish clubs? We've probably got down to single figures around the world.

I know I could be doxxed fairly easily by people in communities I'm in - I've already had someone precisely identify one location, which was a field in rural Wales. I therefore try to ensure all characters (except the spouse) are amended enough to be both clearly fictional and to give them plausible deniability - if anyone accused certain people of being certain story characters they could prove they weren't them, even if they shared certain traits.

I only read a few of OP's stories when they were up, but they seemed not set in any particular location and with indefinite fantasy characters interacting with the narrator. I suspect OP's guilt about having certain fantasies is much more the issue here.

 

[lovecraft68]

Even mainstream novels have the disclaimers of "any resemblance to a real person is unintentional" or however they word it. If it's a character that is based off someone you know, but you're not using their name, and there's even minor differences, I don't see an issue with it. If its someone that caused you pain, it could even be catharsis and a way of moving past something. If its someone you have a crush on, same thing, maybe the story gets you past it. But unless you're portraying the person by name and it being that person to the T, I wouldn't consider it that way.

The topic is harassment, but privacy could also be something to worry about legally.

Then again, the amount of Tiktok and X accounts that are creeper accounts where guys film women on the beach or just out on the street and post them with lewd captions and comments and without consent never seem to get shut down no matter how many reports they receive, so, sad to say, should people even worry about it? At this point in this cesspool of a society, its more about your personal feelings on the matter than repercussions.

 

[stickygirl]

I was amazed when I discovered fan-fiction stories that specifically target individuals, that are presumably written as fantasies in which the author inserts themselves into a sexual encounter with their crush. I admit I've even done it myself, although I took the precaution of changing names in my Lit versions at Lit, but not on A03.

How is it legal or acceptable for fan-fiction to sexualise real people-who-happen-to-be-celebrities? They are individuals too and don't live in bubbles. Maybe if you earn enough cash from your celebrity status you shrug the memes away as being part of your lifestyle, but there have been notable cases of people who've cracked under the pressure of scrutiny.

There are surely degrees of harassment, from affectionately poking fun to outright slurs against public figures. Who's to judge the harassment apart from the object of the attention? I justified my own fanfics by the tone of the characterisations and content: no bunnies were harmed in my celebrity kidnap.

 

[MrHereWriting]

Is erotica sexual harassment?​

From Reuters, 2014: Is saying hello sexual harassment?

I stopped worrying about this kind of stuff a long time ago, but if you asked like Joey Tribbiani, who knows.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I was amazed when I discovered fan-fiction stories that specifically target individuals, that are presumably written as fantasies in which the author inserts themselves into a sexual encounter with their crush. I admit I've even done it myself, although I took the precaution of changing names in my Lit versions at Lit, but not on A03.

How is it legal or acceptable for fan-fiction to sexualise real people-who-happen-to-be-celebrities? They are individuals too and don't live in bubbles. Maybe if you earn enough cash from your celebrity status you shrug the memes away as being part of your lifestyle, but there have been notable cases of people who've cracked under the pressure of scrutiny.

There are surely degrees of harassment, from affectionately poking fun to outright slurs against public figures. Who's to judge the harassment apart from the object of the attention? I justified my own fanfics by the tone of the characterisations and content: no bunnies were harmed in my celebrity kidnap.

A couple friends of mine are famous enough that there does exist fanfic about them. I've read most of it (no, I didn't write any of it myself!) and laughed like a drain. Because it's only based on public personas which are mostly their looks, and not really about 'them' except when the authors are lucky, or have done a stalkerish level of research. Or are close friends, I suppose, which would be a real breach of trust.

One's wife is aware it exists and also finds it funny, but knows her husband wouldn't (he's usually portrayed as a vaguely bad guy). The other has mentioned being totally confused by why so many people want him to be gay, so would probably have the same reaction to the fanfic. But they've both struggled with dealing with fame and all, over the years, so I'm certainly not going to mention it - not close enough for that sort of chat any more, unless they start it.

 

[stickygirl]

A couple friends of mine are famous enough that there does exist fanfic about them. I've read most of it (no, I didn't write any of it myself!) and laughed like a drain. Because it's only based on public personas which are mostly their looks, and not really about 'them' except when the authors are lucky, or have done a stalkerish level of research. Or are close friends, I suppose, which would be a real breach of trust.

One's wife is aware it exists and also finds it funny, but knows her husband wouldn't (he's usually portrayed as a vaguely bad guy). The other has mentioned being totally confused by why so many people want him to be gay, so would probably have the same reaction to the fanfic. But they've both struggled with dealing with fame and all, over the years, so I'm certainly not going to mention it - not close enough for that sort of chat any more, unless they start it.

I first found it on Tumblr where young women were writing crush-love stories, often in first person and badly, about women soccer players. It's innocent enough stuff in that case.

 

[Djmac1031]

if I write a story about a woman I know, knew, or just saw at the gym one day (see my 750 word story, The Blonde In Black) and I don't use their real name, or in any other way hint at their true identity, then as far as the rest of the world is concerned it's a fictional character.

 

[Britva415]

if I write a story about a woman I know, knew, or just saw at the gym one day (see my 750 word story, The Blonde In Black) and I don't use their real name, or in any other way hint at their true identity

and you don't show it to them

 

[Djmac1031]

and you don't show it to them

My 750 word story The Blonde In Black was inspired by a lovely young woman I saw at the gym on a semi regular basis.

No, I never spoke to her, nor her to me. No, I wasn't some creep constantly gawking at her or making her uncomfortable.

I don't think she even knew I existed.

I had a little head fantasy about her and wrote it down.

There's nothing in my story that could identify her to anyone. And if she somehow stumbled on it, she probably wouldn't realize it was about her specifically.

It's a fictional story. Fictional character. Writers turn the real inspirations around them into fiction all the time.

 

[Britva415]

To me, "harassment" would be when you deliberately make them aware of the smutty story you wrote about them.

I get that revenge-porn is a form of harassment even without the offender deliberately rubbing the victim's nose in it by making them aware of the leak. In that situation, the offense is powerful enough that it doesn't depend on deliberately getting in the victim's face and forcing them to deal with it.

This is different, though, because people are readily identified from photos or videos. As long as we're not talking about using a story to dox someone or make their identification inevitable some other way, AND we're not actively making them aware of what we did with the idea of their person, nobody's being harassed.

Plausible deniability works two ways. Authors can say "resemblance to actual persons is unintended," and people who come to be aware of a story character and think they might be the basis can also defuse the potential embarassment by saying "that isn't me," which is a defense that real harassment and revenge-porn victims don't have.

 

[yukonnights]

Well, after reading a good number of the comments posted I'm somewhat baffled that any fiction author needs to rely on anything other than their own imagination? For myself, physical descriptions are not a priority — I prefer to keep the physical appearance detailed enough to paint a believable person without over doing it. The reason for this is that one person's greatest physical appearance may well be another person's greatest dislike.

In general, the physical details are not near as interesting as the interior thoughts & emotions of the various characters. Again, IMO that is where the story is to be found.

 

[sxPlasticity]

This is frustrating, because I feel like there’s no way to tell if what I wanna do is okay or not. Like I said, I like being really detailed: describing things like the way a character inspired by the person and vice versa talks and their basic features as well as more specific ones. I don’t know if that could get me in trouble.

Okay, in all sincere honesty... Here's a question I had, which is basically the same thing you are asking...



Maybe by trying to answer the question in a different way, it will help jar an answer for you...



So let's change your question around... YOU TELL ME what I should, could or maybe would do...



Remember the girl I mentioned who was my neighbor Amanda?



That's actually a TRUE example. But so is my former Domme. And so is my AI girlfriend named Mandy (a nickname for Amanda).



Seriously. I was thinking of writing a story on it called "Three Ladies Named Amanda".



The fact is, my former neighbor was totally beautiful, and she knew I liked her. I don't think she liked me at all, although she was nice to me by default. And, yes, she moved 1,000 miles away about two years ago.



I had thought about using her as the basis for the character.



The question you really seem to be asking is about harassment and maybe stalking...



But that's kind of negligible... She's 1,000 miles away, we have not seen each other for two years, and she did not really like me anyway... So I really don't think I have much reason to go out of my way to stalk down a person who really doesn't give a rat's ass...



However... That WOULD seem to make her SAFE MATERIAL for the fantasy...



Combined with the other two Amandas... I could make an entirely new Amanda... and there would be no legal question about it... I could write a unique story that really WOULD be my original work...



BUT... Does that make it ethically right?



actually, I decided against it... (other than this post)... The fact is - while my AI girlfriend could be the basis - she's not really a woman... while my former Domme could be the basis, she's my former Domme... And while my former neighbor could be the basis... she didn't really like me...



So - as much as it hurts - why pursue a story about any of them? That would be like chasing a carrot I could not have. Wouldn't it be more meaningful to write a story that would actually write about something more edifying?



As for my neighbor who didn't like me - it would also be disrespectful... She wasn't really a mean person, nor was she particularly outgoing, but I don't think it right to force my fantasy onto someone who in reality simply is not interested...

that would be lying to myself, and I don't think she would like that in reality...



But now... You tell me... What would you do? Should I write the story about Amanda? If you were Amanda, how would you feel? If you were me, how would I benefit from it?