Jealousy

[Guest]

 

[SweetErika]

Other questions about this are bouncing around my head.

The other day, a friend was talking about their own jealousy, and said their partner wouldn't let them say they were "just jealous"...the partner insisted jealousy was made up of other thoughts, fears, emotions. If you agree, what kinds of emotions do you think it's composed of?

Jealousy is often linked to insecurity. Do you think they're the same, or that insecurity is a part or cause of jealousy? Is there generally an element of insecurity when there's jealousy?

 

[Miss Trickery]

I'm curious to hear how people define and view jealousy in general, and its relation to relationships, love, and sex specifically.

I'm also interested in how others deal with jealousy, whether it's coming from them, or someone they love.

Thoughts, experiences, coping strategies, new questions, etc. are all welcome.

Jealousy... wow... I remember when my man got me a sister sub - I was so jealous of her. She was beautiful, smart, funny... seemingly everything he wanted in a girl. He gave her a attention all the time, sorta made me feel like I wasn't loved as much - though I knew why he did it, she was a new addition and needed to be eased into the relationship in the most comfortable way. My man talked to me about it too and asked if he could direct more of his time and effort to her, for now.

Although I agreed, I was still a bit jealous. The way I coped with it - I knew he loved me and it was just something that needed to be done and everything would go back to normal. And yes, it has!

 

[Marquis]

Jealousy... wow... I remember when my man got me a sister sub - I was so jealous of her. She was beautiful, smart, funny... seemingly everything he wanted in a girl. He gave her a attention all the time, sorta made me feel like I wasn't loved as much - though I knew why he did it, she was a new addition and needed to be eased into the relationship in the most comfortable way. My man talked to me about it too and asked if he could direct more of his time and effort to her, for now.

Although I agreed, I was still a bit jealous. The way I coped with it - I knew he loved me and it was just something that needed to be done and everything would go back to normal. And yes, it has!

Do you all live together?

 

[TBKahuna123]

Other questions about this are bouncing around my head.

The other day, a friend was talking about their own jealousy, and said their partner wouldn't let them say they were "just jealous"...the partner insisted jealousy was made up of other thoughts, fears, emotions. If you agree, what kinds of emotions do you think it's composed of?

Jealousy is often linked to insecurity. Do you think they're the same, or that insecurity is a part or cause of jealousy? Is there generally an element of insecurity when there's jealousy?

I think jealousy has a lot to do with insecurity. I RARELY get jealous anymore, even though I have plenty of opportunities. My wife works in a male dominate world, one full of rough and tumble males where political correctness is a joke, and she's rather well endowed in the chest department. So she gets lots of looks, jokes and innuedos, flirting, etc. I could be completely ravingly jealous, but I'm not, and the reason is because I trust her completely. I am totally secure in the fact that even were she to flirt back, she's not going anywere but home to me and that there is NO chance of her straying.

Now, I wasn't always this secure and I have gotten rather defensive in the past at this situation. After 11 years of marriage though, I'm completely at peace with it, and I trust her completely. Oh, I occasionally get a little jealous for an instant, but nothing more than an instinctive masculine reaction to protect my property. Silly, yes, but most base and animalistic instincts are.

 

[Mystara]

I hate jealousy. Sometimes I just wish sex could just be sex. I would love to have sex outside my marriage just to try something different. But I know my husband would be hurt and jealous. And I know that if he did it that I would be hurt and jealous too.

 

[CorsetLvr]

As a swinging lifestyle couple, jealousy is something we have to deal with on a regular occasion. Yes, we have had a few occasions when we have had to deal with it on occasion but mainly in regards to other couples we have come into contact with.
For several years we were the co-host couple at a swing party house. Part of our responsibilites included doing some mentoring of newbie couples. The question of jealousy was one questions that almost all brought up at one time or another.

This is basically what we told them. In our opinion jealousy has little or nothing to do with your partner. It has everything to do with your own feelings of inadequacy and self worth. If you are secure in your relationship with your partner you should not have to worry about him/her leaving with someone else. When the playing is over, you always go home with your partner. Anyone trying to split up a couple will not be tolerated. If you can not come to terms with that then this lifestyle is something that is not right for you. We don't judge antone, but for obvious reasons the lifestyle is not cut out for everyone.

What was funny was that while it was the women that had the greatest concerns about jealousy, it was the guys that usually had the most problems with it.

 

[Eilan]

Good post, CorsetLvr.

What was funny was that while it was the women that had the greatest concerns about jealousy, it was the guys that usually had the most problems with it.

That's interesting. Any thoughts as to why this is so?

 

[CorsetLvr]

Good post, CorsetLvr.

That's interesting. Any thoughts as to why this is so?

Personally, I think the guys are just plain excited about living out their fantasies, without a lot of considerations for the reality of what its going to do to their relationship or how they are going to react to it. A typical case of thinking with their little heads. Women, on the other hand, are more concerned about the relationship issues.

The funny thing is that for those couples that do make the transition into a successful swinging couple, we have a saying that describes them, "It may be the guy that brings a couple to the lifestyle, but its usually the woman that keeps them there." Many women find something in swinging that they have been lacking in their life. That is, a lifestyle that not only supports but encourages them to explore their sexuality. Can you find many other facets of our society that does this? The fact that a majority of women in swinging are bi probably says a lot too. Many that aren't bi when they first start exploring, do begin to explore this as they become more comfortable with themselves. Swinging definitely allows them to explore their bisexuality.

A typical scenario we have seen is a new couple at a party, with perhaps a few to many drinks under their belts due to their nervousness. As a result of the alcohol and his nervousness he is not able to perform "up to par," so to speak. Performance anxiety is another major contributing factor here. Of course he's not very happy about it. On the other side of the coin, she is flying high and her inhibitions are going in the opposite direction and she is having a really good time and howling at the moon. The unfortunate result of this set of circumstances may be him pulling her out of the house while calling her some less than flattering names. Not a pretty situation.

Another saying that I like about swinging is, "Swinging can make a good relationship better, but will usually make a bad relationship worse." Replace the work bad with jealous, for whatever reason, and you have a nice summary of this whole issue. The potential stress of any alternative lifestyle is not one that is well suited to persons, or relationships, that are characterized by insecurity, self image problems, or a lack personal honesty

 

[Eilan]

Interesting scenario. . .

My ex-husband and his wife are having issues because of her jealousy of me. I've noticed, in recent months, that she's been calling to make the visitation arrangements and meeting us at our designated kid pick-up/drop-off site, but I know that my ex is busy with his job and other commitments, so I didn't think much about it.

According to my ex, his wife is insecure because, for the most part, he and I get along well. However, that (for me, at least) isn't because of any great love that I have for my ex; it's because we try to maintain a good working relationship for the sake of our kids. We'll never have the friendship/relationship that we once had.

I'd love to call her up and say, "Hey, you know what? You can keep your man because I don't want him anymore," but I know that's a really bad idea because my ex told me about this in confidence.

I hate to think that I'm causing problems between them when I really haven't done anything, but I guess it's their problem to deal with.

 

[andymooo]

Good post, CorsetLvr.

That's interesting. Any thoughts as to why this is so?

Some of it is probably due the the good old alpha male instincts. I suppose in animals it would be the instinct to pass on your genome so the male has to be sure that they are the father of their partners child. Most of it though is just deep down male insecurity (just have a look at the number of cock size threads to get an idea of how insecure most men are ).
I know that a freind of mine had quite a problem with jealousy some time back, not because of anything specific she had donw simply that when they went into the relationship she was quite a bit more experienced than him. He got concerned about this and worried about how he matched up to her ex's, and ended up getting quite jealous of them despite never meeting them and the fact that she hadn't spoken to any of them in over a year.

What it boils down to is what's already been said by others that the more confident you are and the more secure you are the less likely you are to be jealous. That might be partly why you see men getting jealous in swinging situations. If the woman is into it and a willing participant it's giong to be a boost to her confidence having men tell her she's beautiful and desiring her. Men however will see all the attention their partner is getting and start worring about how they match up. (okay maybe that is a simplification still...)

 

[Eilan]

That might be partly why you see men getting jealous in swinging situations.

Good points in this thread.

What interesting is that--here at Lit, anyway--it's usually the men who start the "How do I get/make/convince my SO to swing/have a threesome/whatever?" threads. Guess that the fantasy doesn't always turn out the way they expected.

 

[CorsetLvr]

Good points in this thread.

What interesting is that--here at Lit, anyway--it's usually the men who start the "How do I get/make/convince my SO to swing/have a threesome/whatever?" threads. Guess that the fantasy doesn't always turn out the way they expected.

That's pretty typical of our experience. Like I said, real life doesn't always turn out like a scene from a porno movie and that's most men's only frame of reference in regards to most group sex activities. Most swinging action doesn't share a lot in common with a scripted porno scene. One is idealized, the other is real life. Actor's play a role, swingers play themselves and that includes all their human weaknesses and foibles.

By the way, my answer to the question you quoted is that you don't. A partner that is unwilling for whatever reason, or lacks the open mindedness to explore swinging, is usually a recipe for disaster.

 

[Guest]

 

[SweetErika]

There have been tons of great posts here that have really got me thinking. Thanks to everyone who's contributed their ideas and experiences so far. Jealousy has been something I've seen a lot of in the past few months, and am really trying to understand better.

Some of it is probably due the the good old alpha male instincts. I suppose in animals it would be the instinct to pass on your genome so the male has to be sure that they are the father of their partners child. Most of it though is just deep down male insecurity (just have a look at the number of cock size threads to get an idea of how insecure most men are ).

I think that's a good theory. My husband has expressed his feelings in terms of the amount of threat someone else poses...if the person is already in a solid relationship, isn't within easy reach, or somehow similarly not too available for me to run off with (he recognizes that as an irrational thought, not a real threat though), he's simply not jealous or uncomfortable. He's also mentioned he might feel threatened if he didn't have exclusive rights to PiV sex, which means reproduction to him. In other words, he's happy as long as his place as the alpha male and potential father is secure.

What it boils down to is what's already been said by others that the more confident you are and the more secure you are the less likely you are to be jealous.

I think that's often true, but many times someone can be completely confident and secure in the relationship but still feel irrational jealousy.

That might be partly why you see men getting jealous in swinging situations. If the woman is into it and a willing participant it's giong to be a boost to her confidence having men tell her she's beautiful and desiring her. Men however will see all the attention their partner is getting and start worring about how they match up. (okay maybe that is a simplification still...)

Doesn't jealousy due to fear of not being able to compete really go both ways though? I think most people who are jealous feel that way because they fear the competition is better and more likeable than them somehow.

 

[CorsetLvr]

Admittedly my perspective is from a rather specific, and for most of you, unusual set of circumstances. However, I brought up my points because we live a lifestyle that forces couples to deal with jealousy in a very up front way that is usually not the case in a strictly monogamous relationship. I realize that what I have said about jeaousy in swinging does not apply to most of you out there. I just thought I would add my comments based on our observation in a lifestyle whose basis revolves around the management of jealousy in the hope that some of you might gain some inshight to it in your own relationships.

Our lifestyle is based on a prerequisite of a lack of unmanageable jealousy. I won't say that all couples in swinging are non-jealous, but I will say that the couples that are successful in the lifestyle manage to develop interrelationship tools to deal with it. The main one of these is communication. I have rarely seen a successful couple in the lifestyle that does not have good communication skills.

Swinging is based on the premise that sex and love are not necessarily connected and can be enjoyed without threatening your primary relationship with your partner. Perhaps by pulling the tail of the dragon in this way we reaffirm the solidity of our relationships. We have a saying, "swinging can make a good relationship better, but will usually only make a bad relationship worse."

Here's a pretty good article on jealousy in non-monogamous relationships that you might find enlightening:

Article on jealousy

Here is another article on an issue that was brought earlier about how to get your partner interested in exploring non-monogamous activities:

Article on getting your partner interested

OK, I will shut up now and get off my soap box. Hvae a great weekend.

 

[triple_g]

sorry i did mean ex-wife

But it was funnier as "wife"...

 

[LadyJeanne]

Doesn't jealousy due to fear of not being able to compete really go both ways though? I think most people who are jealous feel that way because they fear the competition is better and more likeable than them somehow.

I think fear is a big component of jealousy. Fear of losing someone, fear that s/he might be tempted by the third person to actually cheat, fear that the other person's attractiveness might make their SO feel less attracted to them or make them dissatisfied in their relationship, fear that they will stack-up unfavorably against the competition. The stronger the the fear of loss is, the stronger is the jealousy.

 

[SweetErika]

I know you're hardly a newbie, CorsetLvr, but welcome to posting more...I've really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this and other topics.

Personally, I think the guys are just plain excited about living out their fantasies, without a lot of considerations for the reality of what its going to do to their relationship or how they are going to react to it. A typical case of thinking with their little heads. Women, on the other hand, are more concerned about the relationship issues.

That's a good point...I noticed something similar the other day when my husband and I were talking about polyamory. There was a definite difference in how we view the impact of having other relationships...he's pretty nonchalant and figures if there are no negative feelings and our relationship is strong, there's nothing to worry about. I feel secure, but am also terrified something might become an issue or our marriage might be damaged before we realize it. It's almost like he's thinking about where we are in the present, and I'm focused on where we may be headed in the future. I think we likely just balance each other out with the disparity, but found it interesting.

The fact that a majority of women in swinging are bi probably says a lot too. Many that aren't bi when they first start exploring, do begin to explore this as they become more comfortable with themselves. Swinging definitely allows them to explore their bisexuality.

I wonder if orientation or the gender of someones' partners factors into jealousy. For instance, might a man be more likely to be jealous if his S.O. was involved with another man, or another woman? I've heard arguments for both, but I'd be interested to hear what you and others here think.

 

[SweetErika]

I find this thread very interesting to read yet very difficult to add a post.

I'm having a hard time organizing my thoughts so work with me here.

I'm glad you decided to post, Scalywag

I wonder if some of the comments regarding confidence within a relationship and its influence on jealousy might be too generalized and are slanted based on one's specific experiences. But I guess that's why they are called opinions.

I agree...you do have to take care not to make sweeping generalizations based on your own experiences. But I like hearing the experiences and opinions all the same.

She has never expressed any of these types of fantasies either. So, from my experience my view is that we both want a monogamous relationship. I don't think monogamy is my preference because of jealousy.

Does any of this make sense. I'll let anyone comment on this and will probably add more, but I want to post something before I back out of the thread again.

Yep, it definitely makes sense, and I hope you'll come back if you have more thoughts. You certainly bring up an interesting point about making choices without jealousy...I'd never thought of it that way before.

 

[CorsetLvr]

I know you're hardly a newbie, CorsetLvr, but welcome to posting more...I've really enjoyed hearing your thoughts on this and other topics.

Thanks you very much Erika.

That's a good point...I noticed something similar the other day when my husband and I were talking about polyamory. There was a definite difference in how we view the impact of having other relationships...he's pretty nonchalant and figures if there are no negative feelings and our relationship is strong, there's nothing to worry about. I feel secure, but am also terrified something might become an issue or our marriage might be damaged before we realize it. It's almost like he's thinking about where we are in the present, and I'm focused on where we may be headed in the future. I think we likely just balance each other out with the disparity, but found it interesting.

That was part of my point. Whether due to society, culture, genetics, or hormones; most men and women view sex and relationships differently.

I wonder if orientation or the gender of someones' partners factors into jealousy. For instance, might a man be more likely to be jealous if his S.O. was involved with another man, or another woman? I've heard arguments for both, but I'd be interested to hear what you and others here think.

My opinion is that most men are more threatened by another man. They are generally a lot more interested in the idea of a bisexual partner. I'm not saying that there aren't men out their that are threatened by a bisexual partner. I find those men's attitudes almost hilarious. I have been there. When I was single, the announcement of my bisexuality was a critical moment in determining whether someone I was seeing was "relationship material" or not. After going through this several times I discovered that there are basically three types of men when it comes to a relationship with a bi partner. Their reaction to my announcement told me a lot about them and allowed me to pretty quickly tell me if I was wasting my time with them or not. This reation extended far beyond the sexual issues in our relationship. It was as if this single issue served as a barometer for other facets of the primordial relationship. Here is how I broke these guys down based on my experience and how they often reacted to my pronouncement:

1. The sexually insecure, clueless guys - "What does a girl have that you can't get from me." I got to where I could recognize these guys even before I made my announcement. They were usually poor lovers, lacked a desire to experiment, and more likely to be into wham bam, thank you ma'am type sex.

2. The selfish, ego-centric guys - "So when can we do a 3-sum with one of your girlfriends." My bisexuality is just something that is something to be used for his benefit. His idea of sex is something he saw on a porno movie. The funny thing about this type is that those that I did do a FMF 3-sum with generally couldn't handle it. They either had a performance anxiety issue, wanted to play porno director and direct the action to fit the details of his porn inspired fantasies that always included him as the center of attention, or was greatly disappointed when he discovered he couldn't keep up with 2 very amorous women.

3. The loving, supportive guys - "OK, that's cool. I'm glad to see that you are so in tune with your sexuality." These guys tend to be more confident and secure sexually. They are relaxed about the bisex issue and know that if they are just cool about it, the benefits of having such a partner will come back to visit them. I spent a good part of my life finding a guy like this that I felt some sort of chemistry with and I now call him hubby. The funny thing is that I wasn't even looking. I had pretty much given up. When I did meet him it was purely a serendipitous event.

OK, I'll shut up now.

 

[Guest]

 

[Eilan]

Also, I am not trying to say my lifestyle is right and yours is wrong. Mine is right for me, and yours is right for you. That's what is really important.

I'm truly disappointed. You're not going to get all high and mighty on your soapbox and protest against different "brands" of sexuality?

I'm joking, people.

[/hijack]

 

[Guest]

 

[EndCredits]

My experiences with jealousy have mainly been wanting what I don't have. Example - last year my roommate was hooking up in the room while I was trying to sleep (I could've left but that would have made it really awkward for him and I didn't want to blow his chances at anything). I wasn't mad that I couldn't sleep, I was just jealous that he was getting play.