Kerry as traitor, aiding the communists

[Colleen Thomas]

But how many rational voters do think there really are? And, of those, how many actually vote? An what if they go and vote for the wrong person, what then? Are they still rational?

Honestly? Not too many. I think the vast majority of voters fall into a category who have a hotbutton issue and evrything else is kinda secndary.

-Colly

 

[kellycummings]

I forget how many presidents have one both the electoral colllege vote AND the popular vote, but it's not many.

The electoral college has only overridden the popular vote twice in our history. The winner in all the other elections had won both votes. Not a bad percentage for many things but when you consider it's for our leader then those two times could matter.

 

[minsue]

Well yeah....but it really doesn't matter for the big elections....the electoral college is nice enough to abuse the intelligence of the voters....

I forget how many presidents have one both the electoral colllege vote AND the popular vote, but it's not many. We have the technology and the media coverage to let everyone see the issues, hear the politicians, and vote in a timely fashion....I don't understand why we don't use it.

It's been about 10 years since my high school gov't class, but IIRC at the time I was taught that only 1 president had won the electoral college without also winning the popular vote.(Pure, Colly, et al: Please correct me if I'm wrong!) My teacher hypothesised that the country would not stand for such a thing in today's world. I thought about him after the 2000 election and wondered if his head exploded.

- Mindy, confident in the knowledge that I'll be corrected if I'm wrong so I can post without worrying too much about misinforming someone.

edited to add: I took too long typing and now see kelly agrees with me on history and got there first. Feeling much more confident now

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I'd love to know how anyone thinks we're better off with this president than without him. Honest to god, I'd love to know how things could be worse.

My dad does. He is solid, traditional, 1950's raised middleclass voter in the south. He is anti gay, anti abortion, pro NRA and anti democrat. He would prefer Bush to anyone who calims to be democrat. As simple as that.

In his opinion a tax and spend, appeasing, liberal would be horrible for this country with a war on teror and an occupation to run.

-Colly

 

[The_Darkness]

The electoral college has only overridden the popular vote twice in our history. The winner in all the other elections had won both votes. Not a bad percentage for many things but when you consider it's for our leader then those two times could matter.

Yeah, that sounds right...I guess....Recent American History isn't really my thing....

Honestly? Not too many. I think the vast majority of voters fall into a category who have a hotbutton issue and evrything else is kinda secndary.

That's true. It's like this Fonda/Communisim/McCarthyism/Anti-War thing with Kerry. People see that and they'll jump all over it. Or like this adultary thing that's comming out (haven't heard much of that....) about Kerry.

 

[kellycummings]

My dad does. He is solid, traditional, 1950's raised middleclass voter in the south. He is anti gay, anti abortion, pro NRA and anti democrat. He would prefer Bush to anyone who calims to be democrat. As simple as that.


-Colly

I've never understood why people insist on sticking with a particular party. Each has had their good and bad. I vote my conscience, not my affiliation.

 

[minsue]

My dad does. He is solid, traditional, 1950's raised middleclass voter in the south. He is anti gay, anti abortion, pro NRA and anti democrat. He would prefer Bush to anyone who calims to be democrat. As simple as that.

In his opinion a tax and spend, appeasing, liberal would be horrible for this country with a war on teror and an occupation to run.

-Colly

Two occupations to run, although the media seems to have forgotten about the troops in Afganistan. With a tax and spend (as opposed to borrow & spend even more...), appeasing, liberal in office we would not have two occupations to run.

- Mindy

 

[The_Darkness]

My dad does. He is solid, traditional, 1950's raised middleclass voter in the south. He is anti gay, anti abortion, pro NRA and anti democrat. He would prefer Bush to anyone who calims to be democrat. As simple as that.

In his opinion a tax and spend, appeasing, liberal would be horrible for this country with a war on teror and an occupation to run.

Your dad sounds a lot like my brother....only your dad sounds a little nicer than my brother. To add to that collection my brother is anti-immigrant, and he was pro-abortion/strict child birth control laws.

Yeah....political debates at my house tended to degrade into fist fights...

 

[Colleen Thomas]

It's been about 10 years since my high school gov't class, but IIRC at the time I was taught that only 1 president had won the electoral college without also winning the popular vote.(Pure, Colly, et al: Please correct me if I'm wrong!) My teacher hypothesised that the country would not stand for such a thing in today's world. I thought about him after the 2000 election and wondered if his head exploded.

- Mindy, confident in the knowledge that I'll be corrected if I'm wrong so I can post without worrying too much about misinforming someone.

edited to add: I took too long typing and now see kelly agrees with me on history and got there first. Feeling much more confident now

Probably.

I know Andy Jackson once won the popular vote, but lost the election.

As to people putting up with it, it was like every election really, there were a lot of happy winners and a lot of furious loosers and a large percentage of the votng public didn't give enough of a damn to go vote.

-Colly

 

[kellycummings]

Your dad sounds a lot like my brother....only your dad sounds a little nicer than my brother. To add to that collection my brother is anti-immigrant,

Another thing I've never understood. How can any American be anti-immigrant? We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is just mine but I really don't get it.

 

[Dirty Slut]

Does anybody remember how Bill beat Bush 1?

In every debate he simply said: "Are you better off now, than you were 4 years ago?"

That one statement sank George the 1st, and if used by the democratic candidate this time will end up sinking George the 2nd, too.

Consider this for a moment, those who voted George in, but ended up in the unemplyment line because of him are a large force to be reasoned with. Is life better in the USA than it was 4 years ago? Not on your life. Four years ago I didn't have to pay almost two bucks a gallon for gasoline. And when transportation costs go up so does everything else. Four years ago the federal budget wasn't just balanced, it had a surplus. Four years ago nobody including terrorists thought of attacking us. Four years ago the biggest bru haw haw in the news was about the president getting a blow job by a political groupy who never did her laundry instead of his wife. News papers are businesses too, so trusting what they say is like eating dinner with the devil's advocate. And times were pretty tough for the news media during Clinton's administration as he was more devoted to this country, than he was to his own interests, sexual, or otherwise. And least we forget the grandstand play by the republicans who signed a document that they had no intention of abiding by, but expected the same ridiculous thing from the democrats who already did things that way.


DS

 

[The_Darkness]

I think my brother's theory was that there's too damn many people in the US as there is and our infrastructure is under serious strain....almost to the breaking point. Immigrants often recieve free medical care or free this or free that....even more so than we citizens.

I'm not saying that I think it's a bad thing, I'm just saying that he thought (and still does think) that it's a bad thing.

My brother's a dick. let that never be forgotten. But, he's still my brother.

 

[minsue]

Another thing I've never understood. How can any American be anti-immigrant? We are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is just mine but I really don't get it.

Come to the southwest, Kelly. We've got people here riding through the desert with shotguns just hoping to come across some poor souls illegally crossing into the country. Sickening and disgusting. Most of the political arguments in my family involve me against the rest of them regarding immigration.

- Mindy, who doesn't get it either

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've never understood why people insist on sticking with a particular party. Each has had their good and bad. I vote my conscience, not my affiliation.

Party loyalty is strong. If you identify strongly with one party or the other you tend to feel comfortable staying with them. Many people change from liberal to conservative as they grow older. Somelike me start out conservative and stay there. others start liberal and never move to a more conservative view.

I am not voting for Bush, but I seriously doubt i can bringmyself to vote democrat. I will probably pick a third party and vote there.

-Colly

 

[minsue]

I think my brother's theory was that there's too damn many people in the US as there is and our infrastructure is under serious strain....almost to the breaking point. Immigrants often recieve free medical care or free this or free that....even more so than we citizens.

I'm not saying that I think it's a bad thing, I'm just saying that he thought (and still does think) that it's a bad thing.

My brother's a dick. let that never be forgotten. But, he's still my brother.

Tell him it's bullshit. Immigrants do not receive more free medical care or anything else than citizens do. Unfortunately, you can tell him it's bullshit, show him statistics, and ask him why he still believes it and, if he's anything like my family, he'll say, "It's just true."

- Mindy, wandering away from this thread before I get myself all pissed off at phantom people and my family

 

[kellycummings]

I am not voting for Bush, but I seriously doubt i can bringmyself to vote democrat. I will probably pick a third party and vote there.

-Colly

I've done that before. When Clinton ran the second time I couldn't bring myself to vote for him and I thought Dole was totally out of touch so I voted for the Socialist Party. Shhhh, don't tell anyone! I figured an extra vote might make them feel good and brighten their day. LOL

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Two occupations to run, although the media seems to have forgotten about the troops in Afganistan. With a tax and spend (as opposed to borrow & spend even more...), appeasing, liberal in office we would not have two occupations to run.

- Mindy

You are probably right. The taliban would still be in control in Afghanistan and Saddam would still be in control in Iraq and Ossama would still be living in houses instead of caves. And while there are many here who think that is a good thing I wouldn't want to try and sell my dad on the idea

He would never hit me, but I am not so sure I am to old that he wouldn't spank me for turning from his little girl into a pinko communist

-Colly

 

[minsue]

He would never hit me, but I am not so sure I am to old that he wouldn't spank me for turning from his little girl into a pinko communist

-Colly

Too many smart-assed remarks...just can't choose...

 

[The_Darkness]

Unfortunately, unless this has been recently fixed....immigrants could cross the boarder and if they were injured, get to a hospital and get free medical attention.

I'm all for them getting help, I really am. My brother sees this as a terrible waste of money; they should be able to get help in their own country and .

As I said. He's a dick.

But we're not talking about my family, we're talking about G W and Kerry...

And the American Political system.

And voting.

And stuff....

 

[kellycummings]

Unfortunately, unless this has been recently fixed....immigrants could cross the boarder and if they were injured, get to a hospital and get free medical attention.

That happens because a hospital cannot turn away anyone in need of medical attention, regardless of status. It applies to injuries and the habit of pregnant women sneaking over, having their babies here and the baby automatically being a citizen because it was born here. It's a loophole but one that can't really be changed without affecting a large number of Americans.
Also, you're right, we're supposed to be on other stuff.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I've done that before. When Clinton ran the second time I couldn't bring myself to vote for him and I thought Dole was totally out of touch so I voted for the Socialist Party. Shhhh, don't tell anyone! I figured an extra vote might make them feel good and brighten their day. LOL

I will probably vote for whatever fellow the Libertarins have just sprung from the nut hatch

-Colly

 

[kellycummings]

I will probably vote for whatever fellow the Libertarins have just sprung from the nut hatch

-Colly

ROFLMFAO!!!!!!
It's funny 'cuz it's true!

 

[The_Darkness]

If I don't like the candidates from here on out, but I don't want to not vote, I'm going to use C'thulhu for a write-in-candidate.

C'thulhu: Why vote for the lesser Evil?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Too many smart-assed remarks...just can't choose...

LOL, perhaps trying to decide if I desrrve a spanking for being a smart ass? Or trying to decide which one to respond too?

-Colly

 

[minsue]

Unfortunately, unless this has been recently fixed....immigrants could cross the boarder and if they were injured, get to a hospital and get free medical attention.

I'm all for them getting help, I really am. My brother sees this as a terrible waste of money; they should be able to get help in their own country and .

As I said. He's a dick.

But we're not talking about my family, we're talking about G W and Kerry...

And the American Political system.

And voting.

And stuff....

Yes, it's true. Hospitals cannot turn away emergency cases simply because they cannot pay regardless of their citizenship. My point is simply that there seems to be this image of hospitals filled with illegal immigrants who came across the border for the medical treatment. The vast majority of the indigent hospital bills that the taxpayers eat are from citizens. It's actually a very small percentage from illegal immigrants. It's not easy to get across the border, especially within the past couple of years. Hundreds of people die in the desert every year and that's just in Arizona. They're not coming to get something for nothing. These people risk their lives and usually give thousands of dollars to coyotes to smuggle them across. They're doing it out of desperation and most of the immigrants work very hard for very little pay because it's better here than where they're from.

I'm not saying that I believe illegal immigration isn't wrong. It is illegal. It's just that I can say without a shadow of a doubt that, given a similar situation, I would do the same damn thing. I can't understand how or why I was lucky enough to be born on the soil that provides for the easiest life, but I'll be damned if I'm going to pretend that makes me more deserving than someone else.