Languages

[Ahlam]

Yeah, I don't know why I struggled with Hebrew, but like I said, I probably have to give it another try now that I have the script more or less down. Reading and writing it was just so slow that I seemed to make no headway with grammar and vocabulary. Farsi on the other hand was pure joy to learn. You really got me excited about it again, I'll see if I can dig up my old learning material or find new one!

Is Amharic script the same as Ge'ez script? I have studied some general linguistics and for one phonetics class had to analyze and make a presentation about Tigrinya, which uses the Ge'ez script. I never got comfortable with it.

I've studied Mandarin for one year at the university, it's one of the many beginner classes I've taken. It was definitely interesting! I got pretty good at reading and speaking, but writing was tough for me. I still remember bits and pieces, for example I could still order in a restaurant and tell a bit about my family, but nothing worth mentioning really. I never found the pronunciation to be difficult, but understanding spoken Mandarin was hard, unless the other person slowed down their speech significantly. The grammar was quite simple, too, at least at that stage, but I certainly needed to twist my thinking around a bit, because the language doesn't work at all like the IE languages I'm most comfortable with.

The writing system is really cool, although it makes using the dictionary hard. You really need to know your radicals and how to write those characters if you want to find anything at all in a dictionary, because the characters are organized by the number of strokes needed to write them. The characters have certain patterns of strokes called radicals. You need to first identify the radical correctly, then count how many strokes are needed for that radical. That way you can find the section with characters using that particular radical. Then you need to count how many strokes are needed for the character as a whole. But of course, with the digital dictionaries that too is now simpler. I only had (have) an oldskool paper dictionary.

And yes, dabbling is the best.

Thanks for the tips on Mandarin! I'm all jazzed up to learn it now.

Yes, Amharic uses the Ge'ez script. Isn't it pretty?

I don't know why, but I always struggle to learn a new language if I start with grammar. I learn better if I just sit there with my mouth hanging open like a toddler for a long time first. The longer the string of drool, the better the results.

 

[seela]

Thanks for the tips on Mandarin! I'm all jazzed up to learn it now.

Yes, Amharic uses the Ge'ez script. Isn't it pretty?

I don't know why, but I always struggle to learn a new language if I start with grammar. I learn better if I just sit there with my mouth hanging open like a toddler for a long time first. The longer the string of drool, the better the results.

Thanks to you, I started going through the Farsi Pimsleur lessons again. It's surprising how much I still remember. Reading and writing are to be retackled next, but right now I've breezed through the first four Pimsleur units and remembered them all pretty easily, altough stress and intonation still feel a bit counterintuitive to me. Brain is a weird thing, putting stuff in cold storage like that.

I don't like to start with grammar either, if I'm actually learning a language. For me it's better to start in a more conversative way, listening and repeating, but I learn much better if I see what I'm saying or hearing in writing also. I notice that pretty soon after listening and repeating I start making grammar patterns in my head and at that point I need to run to a grammar book to check how it really is. But I find I learn much better if I first notice a pattern and then check if what I've noticed actually is correct. I've had to learn Old Church Slavonic from a grammar book and it was hell, definitely not the style I like to use for learning a language, but for OCS there are little other possibilities.

That said I really like grammar and I often read grammars and descriptions of weird languages on wiki. I'm also a weirdo that solves the Linguistic Olympiad problems every year just for fun and my favorites are the ones in a script I don't know, like Armenian.

If someone wants to learn a language with the listen and repeat method, I can definitely recommend the Pimsleur courses. They're available in many languages and the ones I've used have all been pretty good for getting basic conversation skills.

 

[Ahlam]

The International Linguistics Olympiad?! Wow!! That is beyond cool.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Another fan of the Linguistics Olympiad problems.

 

[BiBunny]

Bumping this.

Primalex's Valentine thread, where he mentioned that he's decided to learn Turkish, made me think of it.

Well, that and the fact that I also had the brilliant idea that I was going to learn Dutch this year, and this seemed like the best place for me to say that I have never in my entire life felt so stupid.

My Spanish is an eensy bit better (thank you, DuoLingo). My more or less non-existent Dutch is atrocious, and my English gets worse every day of my life.

What about y'all?

 

[seela]

Dutch sounds exciting! How did you end up choosing it? How's your throat?

My situation is pretty much the same as it was a year ago. My Swedish is leaps and bounds better now because I decided I'm not gonna waste 6 years of studying it and started to read books and watch TV in Swedish.

And to match my situation a year ago, I'm once again going through Pimsleur's lessons in Farsi. It's fun to notice that even if I never keep up with actually learning the language, each time I pick it up after a hiatus I seem to remember more than I did the previous time I started it again.

 

[desertslave]

My native language is American English. My formal education includes French, German, Irish Gaelic, and Spanish. I also have a smattering of "Pennsylvania Dutch" which is mostly somewhat archaic high German and a bit of Yiddish because there's a lot of crossover. I've taught myself some Welsh, and picked up a bunch of Italian from my best friend's family when I was a kid.

 

[midwestyankee]

Dutch sounds exciting! How did you end up choosing it? How's your throat?

My situation is pretty much the same as it was a year ago. My Swedish is leaps and bounds better now because I decided I'm not gonna waste 6 years of studying it and started to read books and watch TV in Swedish.

And to match my situation a year ago, I'm once again going through Pimsleur's lessons in Farsi. It's fun to notice that even if I never keep up with actually learning the language, each time I pick it up after a hiatus I seem to remember more than I did the previous time I started it again.

I spent some time learning Farsi many years ago, in preparation for a tour of duty in the Peace Corps in Afghanistan that never materialized. So. Seela, how's YOUR throat? The best thing about learning Farsi, as I recall, was that I never, ever had any mucus left in my airways by the end of each lesson.

 

[BiBunny]

Dutch sounds exciting! How did you end up choosing it? How's your throat?

I wish I could give you some deep and profound reason for the choice. But--like so many other things in my life--it can all be boiled down to one single phrase: It sounded like a good idea at the time.

My throat's been ok so far, but that's probably because my pronunciation is the worst!

My situation is pretty much the same as it was a year ago. My Swedish is leaps and bounds better now because I decided I'm not gonna waste 6 years of studying it and started to read books and watch TV in Swedish.

And to match my situation a year ago, I'm once again going through Pimsleur's lessons in Farsi. It's fun to notice that even if I never keep up with actually learning the language, each time I pick it up after a hiatus I seem to remember more than I did the previous time I started it again.

Farsi sounds like fun, and it's awesome that you retain more each time. You'll be fluent in no time.

And also yay for Swedish!

 

[Lilylovex64]

My native language is English but I grew up with my grandparents and can have a bit of a strong Spanish accent at times. I speak Spanish but more of the Tex-mex version, I have cousins who speak Catalan and my husbands family speaks the Mexican version so while we can communicate it sometimes confuses me! I learned Portogeuse last summer when I had a lot of free time but had no one to communicate with so I can only say a few basic phrases now.

I can read and write in both English and Spanish.

I admire everyone who speaks multiple languages though.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I wish I could give you some deep and profound reason for the choice. But--like so many other things in my life--it can all be boiled down to one single phrase: It sounded like a good idea at the time.

My throat's been ok so far, but that's probably because my pronunciation is the worst!



Farsi sounds like fun, and it's awesome that you retain more each time. You'll be fluent in no time.

And also yay for Swedish!

I think Dutch is interesting, because it has enough words in common with other languages that I know, for me to understand what a written text is about. The pronunciation makes it very hard to understand when it is spoken though.

 

[seela]

I spent some time learning Farsi many years ago, in preparation for a tour of duty in the Peace Corps in Afghanistan that never materialized. So. Seela, how's YOUR throat? The best thing about learning Farsi, as I recall, was that I never, ever had any mucus left in my airways by the end of each lesson.

I don't find Farsi nearly as phlegm removing as Arabic, so my throat is fine, thank you for asking.

I wish I could give you some deep and profound reason for the choice. But--like so many other things in my life--it can all be boiled down to one single phrase: It sounded like a good idea at the time.

My throat's been ok so far, but that's probably because my pronunciation is the worst!



Farsi sounds like fun, and it's awesome that you retain more each time. You'll be fluent in no time.

And also yay for Swedish!

I think that's the best reason to pick up any language: I just felt like doing it.

Farsi is fun, but I'm so far from being fluent in it, and that's not even my goal. I've realized that I rather dabble with a ton of languages than become fluent in one.

I think Dutch is interesting, because it has enough words in common with other languages that I know, for me to understand what a written text is about. The pronunciation makes it very hard to understand when it is spoken though.

Yup, this is my experience as well. I once watched a Czech movie with Dutch subtitles. It was a weird, but there was enough cross over to languages that I know in both Czech and Dutch that I didn't really have much trouble understanding it at all.

 

[Ahlam]

It's so neat that someone on here is learning Turkish! I decided to pick it up last Fall for fun and found it to be surprisingly straightforward. I started with Rosetta Stone software and then branched off to Turkish news and TV shows. I've heard modern Turkish is quite different from old Turkish, which is sort of interesting if it's true because that is not always the case for other languages in the Middle East.

I agree with Seela on Arabic being very good for the clearing of the throat. Farsi certainly does have its moments, though.

 

[seela]

It's so neat that someone on here is learning Turkish! I decided to pick it up last Fall for fun and found it to be surprisingly straightforward. I started with Rosetta Stone software and then branched off to Turkish news and TV shows. I've heard modern Turkish is quite different from old Turkish, which is sort of interesting if it's true because that is not always the case for other languages in the Middle East.

I agree with Seela on Arabic being very good for the clearing of the throat. Farsi certainly does have its moments, though.

Have you used Rosetta Stone for other languages? Do you find it works for you? For some reason I've never gotten any headway using RS and I've heard other people say the same thing.

I stopped trying to learn Arabic when I almost threw up once trying to pronounce that pesky ayin. I feel more comfortable with the sound now, having done Hebrew after it, so I might have to give Arabic another go as well.

Farsi, Arabic, Georgian, Turkish, Icelandic... So many languages, so little time!

 

[BiBunny]

I think Dutch is interesting, because it has enough words in common with other languages that I know, for me to understand what a written text is about. The pronunciation makes it very hard to understand when it is spoken though.

It's really weird for me because I seem to understand more of it when it's spoken than when I'm trying to read it, which has never happened in anything else I've ever tried to study. Although that, too, may go back to my atrocious pronunciation and not being able to recognize something I've butchered so thoroughly when speaking when it's written on the page.

I watch a lot of gymnastics competitions on YouTube because I really have no life outside of work, and it tends to be tougher to find coverage of strictly European meets than it is to find either American meets or, like, the world championships or whatever.

Anyway, I've found two different channels that cover a lot of the European meets; one's in Spain, and the other's in the Netherlands. I've been studying Spanish considerably longer than I've been studying Dutch, but I can only catch a word or two of what the commentators are saying on the Spanish channel. I can sorta halfway follow along with the Dutch commentators, though. I mean, I don't *need* commentary to watch, obviously, but I do like to know what they're saying!

My main problem with Dutch at the moment (pronunciation aside) is spelling. Good lord, I'm terrible at it.

I think that's the best reason to pick up any language: I just felt like doing it.

If only that reasoning worked as well for everything else!

Farsi is fun, but I'm so far from being fluent in it, and that's not even my goal. I've realized that I rather dabble with a ton of languages than become fluent in one.

Sounds good to me!

Yup, this is my experience as well. I once watched a Czech movie with Dutch subtitles. It was a weird, but there was enough cross over to languages that I know in both Czech and Dutch that I didn't really have much trouble understanding it at all.

That's actually really cool.

 

[IrisAlthea]

It's so neat that someone on here is learning Turkish! I decided to pick it up last Fall for fun and found it to be surprisingly straightforward. I started with Rosetta Stone software and then branched off to Turkish news and TV shows. I've heard modern Turkish is quite different from old Turkish, which is sort of interesting if it's true because that is not always the case for other languages in the Middle East.

I agree with Seela on Arabic being very good for the clearing of the throat. Farsi certainly does have its moments, though.

Could it be because of the political pressure from the state? Kind of like a common bureaucratic language holding it together or something like that?

I think I'm having a bit of a language problem here in the language thread, because I can't really get what I wanted to ask into English.

Have you used Rosetta Stone for other languages? Do you find it works for you? For some reason I've never gotten any headway using RS and I've heard other people say the same thing.

I stopped trying to learn Arabic when I almost threw up once trying to pronounce that pesky ayin. I feel more comfortable with the sound now, having done Hebrew after it, so I might have to give Arabic another go as well.

Farsi, Arabic, Georgian, Turkish, Icelandic... So many languages, so little time!

Icelandic is another of those frustrating "I almost understand it" languages.

 

[Ahlam]

Have you used Rosetta Stone for other languages? Do you find it works for you? For some reason I've never gotten any headway using RS and I've heard other people say the same thing.

I stopped trying to learn Arabic when I almost threw up once trying to pronounce that pesky ayin. I feel more comfortable with the sound now, having done Hebrew after it, so I might have to give Arabic another go as well.

Farsi, Arabic, Georgian, Turkish, Icelandic... So many languages, so little time!

I know what you mean.

When learning to pronounce the Ayin, I made myself repeat "EINstEIN" over and over in a silly voice. It kind of helped.

As for Rosetta Stone, I think it's mostly overrated but it can be a nice introduction to a language that you want to casually pick up. It's nice to have feedback about pronunciation in the absence of formal instruction. I mostly just use it because I am an audio-learner and I get it for free.

 

[Ahlam]

Could it be because of the political pressure from the state? Kind of like a common bureaucratic language holding it together or something like that?

I think I'm having a bit of a language problem here in the language thread, because I can't really get what I wanted to ask into English.

I don't know, but I think you may be on to something. A lot of it is for religious reasons, but it's sort of bureaucratic too. Standard Arabic, for instance, is the language of state, literature, and business in many countries but it's also considered a liturgical language. There's a panel of religious officials that regulate linguistic changes. For this reason, standard Arabic doesn't change much and isn't much different from classical Arabic. Hence, dialects. Arabic dialects spoken in the street can be very different from the standard.