Lien_Geller's Story Review Thread.

[LadyVer]

Thank you, LadyVer, I am glad you found it so appealing. My The Lonely Lady features an older woman, but she's engaged in giving lessons in theology to a younger man.

I'm dissatisfied as well with the way I address internal dialogue; any suggestions for dealing with it more clearly?

You're welcome, Tio. I'm on an editing deadline right now, unfortunately. Here is a good article about internal dialogue from an editor I follow: http://theeditorsblog.net/2012/02/28/inner-dialogue-writing-character-thoughts/

Will check out your other story when I get a chance. Sounds interesting.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thank you, LadyVer, I am glad you found it so appealing. My The Lonely Lady features an older woman, but she's engaged in giving lessons in theology to a younger man.

I'm dissatisfied as well with the way I address internal dialogue; any suggestions for dealing with it more clearly?

I use quotes for external, italics for internal. Especially useful when I'm interweaving the two:

"Sure, I'd love to come to your party." Just as soon as hell freezes over.

Not CMoS-approved, but it's easy to read without breaking flow.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

You're welcome, Tio. I'm on an editing deadline right now, unfortunately. Here is a good article about internal dialogue from an editor I follow: http://theeditorsblog.net/2012/02/28/inner-dialogue-writing-character-thoughts/

Will check out your other story when I get a chance. Sounds interesting.

I use quotes for external, italics for internal. Especially useful when I'm interweaving the two:

"Sure, I'd love to come to your party." Just as soon as hell freezes over.

Not CMoS-approved, but it's easy to read without breaking flow.

Thanks LadyVer and Bramblethorn for the advice and reference. I tend to be an academic at heart and always feel uncomfortable writing someone else's words, even a fictitious character's thoughts, without enclosing them in quotation marks. The CMoS likes that, though it does allow of alternatives, but it can get unwieldy, as Bramble so clearly demonstrates, or confusing, as LadyV has averred. I'll keep trying.

 

[Lien_Geller]

Going back to Ginny.

Ok then, just wanting to clarify a few things.

Mainly here I'd just like to talk about the reason I occasionally go back and re-write certain paragraphs from time to time for critical purposes. I am not trying to re-write the damn thing to say “this is how it should be done” or “mine’s better than yours, so ner ner ner ner ner”. Instead, I use it as a tool to discuss problems I’m seeing in a more constructive way than just complaining about everything. Sometimes when I get certain criticism I think: “Well, ok then how the hell would you do it your way in my context?”

So, I offer an example of how the problems I’m seeing might be fixed for me. I’m not trying to lay down the law of how you should write it. If I wanted to do stuff like that then I’d go into editing. (Kidding!)

Also, the reason I didn’t focus on the mundane nature of being naked on a nude beach was because I don't think you didn’t put across the importance of that as successfully as you could have. My main issue with your opening line is that you begin by describing the woman’s nudity as no big deal without having established the context of the setting beforehand. It seems like you’re going out of your way to say that this woman’s naked body isn’t something anyone would normally find interesting. I know it’s fixed almost immediately in the next line, but in an opening paragraph it sticks out more to me and it’s easily remedied. This is why in my example I opened my paragraph with the setting first before describing her.

Since opening with setting is generally quite boring, I added a little humour to get the reader interested. Obviously that’s something that’s very important in the opening line. You don’t remotely have to do this, but again I wanted to show just how it could work.

So as I said, I don’t have the time or the patience to go around re-writing people’s stories for them. I usually just re-write a paragraph from time to time in order to highlight certain points I’m making to try and make them easier to understand. I’m not trying to derail people’s imaginations, I’m just creating a brief example to refer to.

My apologies if it came off differently!

Ok then, now let me take off my condescending-critic hat and speak to you just as a person having a healthy debate with someone else.

Obviously what you said about every reader interpreting a story in a different way is true. No two people perceive the world in exactly the same way. They don’t have the same frames of reference or life experience so every story I read is going to come out feeling a little different to me than they would to you if you’d read the same ones. I completely agree with that.

Where we seem to diverge is that I think writing is also a unique way to share your own perspective on the world with someone else. I think this is what we mean when we say a writer has found their “voice”. It’s that they’ve found a good way of expressing their perception of the world in their own style. I’m not talking about story experiences like plot points or character traits, but rather the way the story is written and communicated with the reader. I think that this is especially important in Sci Fi and Fantasy stories, because we’re often talking about very alien concepts to the reader. If it’s not put across in an interesting way that they can relate to then they tend to drift away.

To go a different route, I don’t give two shits about rugby, but I once heard this girl talk about a rugby game she’d been watching. She told the story with such passion and humour that I found myself re-telling the highlights of the game to my friends later on. I personally find that there’s few things nicer than hearing someone who can tell a good story talking about the things they love. It didn’t make me start watching rugby, but I was very glad I’d heard the story and for a moment shared her perspective on something she so clearly enjoyed.

I think in this story you forget to share in your passion for art and artists you clearly love with the average reader. You’re instead talking to people who have the same love that you do, and can understand the things you want to convey through referencing the pieces. When you talk about the “sensuousness” of the painters I really have no clue what you’re talking about. I don’t care about the art of painting the way you do.

To your credit you do give some attempt to describe what you mean, but as someone who doesn’t really appreciate what you’re referencing I’m just left behind. Even after Katiecat gave an example of one of the key paintings referenced in the piece my main reaction was to just raise an eyebrow.

“So, he see’s a redhead in the sea with what looks like green mould on her back. She’s leaning over like Michael Jackson in the Smooth Criminal music video and trying to swallow her own fist for some reason. Oh and she’s got a hip bone that looks like it could be used to open oyster shells. Huh. Weird.”

So, other than just making Gauguin roll over in his grave, I hope you see where I’m coming from here. You, on the other hand, probably see that and take so much more from it than I do. I want you to share your experience and perspective of these works of art in your writing rather than just name-dropping an artist and hoping I get it. Artists use paint to express themselves. We use words.

I’ll just finish here by saying these issues are relatively minor criticisms in what was a good story. It’s just that I felt you misinterpreted some of my points. Also, your notes about writing for “your audience” in a couple of places rubbed me the wrong way. We can’t please everyone, and shouldn’t write to do that but I do think it’s better to be more inclusive in your storytelling. If you’re actively writing for a particular audience then it’s also nice to let a critic know who that audience is when you’re asking for criticism. If not then I’ll take it that your audience is the people who are going to be reading your story from where you posted it on the site.

Oh yeah! I’d also like to apologise for calling you pretentious. You made a great point there. I don’t think you come at this with any degree of superiority to your reader, but I do think that you assume an interest or ability to appreciate this kind of art that might not exist amongst some of your readership. I’m amongst that number, and instead of feeling like you were sharing in a passion of art it came across instead as somewhat alienating. This left me with a similar feeling as if someone was being pretentious, but of course you’re right in that it clearly wasn’t. Hope you understand where I’m coming from though!

As for your desire to more effectively put across thoughts in your story? Bramblethorn's idea was great, but you might also maybe try writing in the first person. It's easier to fold the thoughts and feelings of the POV character in with that particular style. It's a big shift, but I think it could have suited this story quite well and might be something to look into in future if you're interested.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Yes, Lien, as I said, I appreciate your time and thought as well as your perspective, and never considered that you were being dictatorial. It still is the case, however, that you are seeing a different story.

You wanted her body to be physically attractive; the point of the story is that it isn't. Right, the woman in the Gauguin painting isn't hot (well, maybe from the sun; that could be why she's diving naked into the cooling sea). What she is is a contrast between flesh tone and sea tone, with the white of the foam underscoring the pallid beige of her skin, and a splash of red against green. Not "attractive," for sure no Venus-on-the-half-shell cum Botticelli, but "noticeable." The painting was scandalous at the time, to the Academy at least, but not for the nudity; it was for the "unpleasant" contrast of that red and green.

It would also be a different story if I wrote into it my love and passion for art. In this story, the art (remember, I said the reader could easily ignore the artist references) wasn't the point. It was more so the mundaneness of the man as well; the art is there, but it is reflective and mildly arousing rather than passionate. What I found the story most wanted to do was juxtapose a somewhat timid, apparently bookish, man who sees things referentially, with an outspoken woman who experiences things directly. Both are mundane in a general sense, but both are also special in a sense; the story is of their parallel and differently focused lives intersecting, and in so doing, transforming the protagonist (and maybe Ginny as well). At the onset, his dealing with Ginny was academic, he saw her by reference to "book learning;" after experiencing her, he tries his old way of knowing: he wants to write her number down, and finds he needs no reference: the experience has given her immediacy in his life.

I wasn't out to criticize the critic, though your seeing me as even more pretentious than yourself did, obviously, rankle me a bit. I'm a bit surprised to find my references to audience rubbed you the wrong way; there are different audiences, even here at lit. I think that's why we have different genres. We can't expect to please them all, nor should we try. I didn't identify a specific audience in asking for your critique because I didn't have a particular audience in mind. It only came up for me because your comments and modelling example seemed to be from the perspective of one reading these stories looking for a hot character. There's nothing wrong with that, in itself, I like finding hot women on the beach myself, but that is a particular audience. My objection was that when you didn't find it there, you seemed to think that was what the story needed.

So again, I really do appreciate your comments and critique; you've had me reflect on this story and shown me what's of import for other stories that may decide to play Pallas Athena with my forehead (now, that's pretentious...or is it tongue-in-cheek...wait a second, wouldn't tongue-in-cheek be better posted on the fetish forum...this erotic writing business is so complicated!). And thanks also for the idea of a story based on a passion for the arts; I think it may be forming itself in my psyche right now.

 

[Lien_Geller]

Ok, once again I do think that you’ve misinterpreted what I’m saying. At no point did I say that the story needed a hot woman in order to be effective. Direct quote from my review that sums up my point here:

It’s fine for characters not to be physically perfect but doing it like that just feels strange to me.

All I’m saying on this front is that you wanted to establish how her red hair is what’s striking and that her nudity is pretty mundane in the situation of her being on a nudist beach, right? The only thing I’m criticising in the way you did this was that you established that her nudity was mundane before you established the context of the nudist beach. Because of this, the ordinariness of her nudity in the context that you’re trying to establish is lost and instead it becomes extraordinary due to the fact he’s hardly paying attention to it.

Put another way, instead of that first sentence getting me to think: “Ok, one more naked lady on a nudist beach isn’t a big deal, but gosh her hair is really eye-catching.” I’m instead thinking: “Wait, what the hell is wrong with this woman that she’s walking starkers along the beach and he’s barely finding that significant compared to something else about her? Does she have two heads or something?”

See? That’s all I meant by it. It’s a small issue, but one that I noticed. Even in the paragraph I re-wrote I do not at any point say she’s got an attractive body. All I say is that her hair draws attention to her form out on the water.

So I really don’t think I’m seeing as different a story as you might think! ^_^

I also think that you do reflect certain positive aspects of the art you reference in your story in your writing. It’s just that with you writing in the third person and not really mentioning much about the protagonist’s nature from the offset, it felt less like his opinion of things and more like you talking to me about yours if you catch my drift? If it had been in first person and he’d have referenced paintings like that then I’d have taken it more as a character quirk as opposed to a quirk of your writing. It felt less like I was in the characters head and more like you as an author needed to reference the art in the narrative to get your point across. I just re-read the story with what you said in mind and I enjoyed it a lot more (which is something since I actually enjoyed it quite a bit the first time). I think this might also partially be a side effect of you putting his thoughts in speech marks. So it’s like when he’s actively thinking something I’m expecting it to be in the speech marks and the rest is you as a writer telling me the story.

I wasn't out to criticize the critic, though your seeing me as even more pretentious than yourself did, obviously, rankle me a bit.

That made me lol. I just imagined you yelling ”I’m more pretentious than Lien_Geller!?” and then upturning a table or something. Am I really that bad?

It’s also strange that you mentioned Athena there. During your “I've just found a woman right out of three of my favorite painters” quote the first thing to come to mind was a mix of Athena’s birth mixed in with a memorable scene from the movie Alien and some imagery from Bramblethorn's Red Callum, Sweet Cate. Hence my alarm.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Sorry, Lien. I've just written a few paragraphs of friendly and witty reply, but when I clicked to post it, I was told I wasn't signed in, and everything disappeared. I've had such happen before, some sort of timing out, perhaps. I don't feel up to writing anew (I guess I should write elsewhere and cut and paste), and don't expect I could catch the same phrasing as the first time around anyway.

Suffice it, for now, to say that I do appreciate your comments (the Athena/Alien imagery does give me some pause for re-writing), and I'll be back.

 

[CateJ]

Holla!

Just a quick post to say thanks to Lien_Geller for taking the time to read and respond to something clearly well below the paygrade.

Much appreciated, and to anyone considering asking for help or critique, do it. Definitely worth the butterflies. But hey, anything that stops the next chapter is a disgrace so you chose.

As an aside, if you meant it about subbing, PM me, I'd be happy to add to the fund

Cate

 

[babyfaced93]

Care to review my Unexpected Situation series? The first one is the worst at 3.8 or 3.9, I think. ..

http://www.i.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=760339

 

[Lien_Geller]

Hey there babyfaced93! I'm sorry but I don't review noncon/reluctance stories. Check the first post on this thread for the kind of stuff I'll take a look at. If you've got anything along those lines I'll be happy to take a swing at it for you.

 

[Katiecat]

Care to review my Unexpected Situation series? The first one is the worst at 3.8 or 3.9, I think. ..

http://www.i.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=760339

Lien doesn't review non-con. Not my choice of category, either, but since you are a brand new writer here, I took a look at it.

There are several major problems with your story.

You specify that the POV narrator is a senior in HS. Lots of writers do this to establish their character is young, but is at least 18, which is the hard and fast rule here on Lit.

Then you say Tori is a junior. Unless she was held back, she can't possibly be 18 and be a junior -- huge red flag. It's a short one pager, so I skimmed through the rest, hoping I'd find something that clarifies she is also at least 18 (and found nothing).

So assuming you will go back and rewrite, and specify your characters are in college and are both over the age of consent, here are a few other issues I noticed:

Tory is a C cup or D cup on a 5'3" frame, and you wrote that it's "logical" school attire in CA for young ladies to go bra-less so their breasts don't sweat? Your logic train left the station and immediately ran off the tracks.

It's not that hot in CA. At a school function, a teacher or chaperone would be likely to send Tori and her obviously unsupported rack home -- especially since it was so obvious that it's the first thing all of the students notice about her. As a side note, not a lot of busty females find going without a bra more comfortable than back pain from lugging a pair of cantaloupes around on one's chest.

You want your female character to be braless? Come up with a more plausible scenario than it's logical because she would have been sweaty in another state.

The description of the narrator being of mixed race sounds forced, stereotyped, and contrived. In just a few sentences, you throw in a hoodie, Adidas, "muthafucka", "brutha", the N word...and a fight. Really? And none of that has anything to do with the story.

No, a man cannot shove his penis into a woman's uterus. Not unless she is in labor and her cervix is dialating -- and if that's the case, a baby is coming out of there, and she'd probably strangle you with her bare hands. Please read up on female anatomy.

The scenario of her getting raped on the bus, in front of all those sleeping people, and she is able to whisper to him to stop and whisper to him to pull out because she is terrified of getting pregnant, she's tearing up, "hysterical", her mouth is in a silent scream -- all I, as a reader, can think is, "And why not a loud scream? He has no weapon and his hand isn't over her mouth."

Nope, sorry, suspension of disbelief only goes so far. And at this point, I stopped reading.

 

[FatalConscripts]

leins stories

just have to say, after reading all of leins stories i do believe that the missing dragon is my favorite so far, and i cant wait for chapter five to come out, hopefully it is coming soon, the cliffhanger at the end of chapter four when he gets his warpack outfitted with all new weapons and a new veiwpoint on how to go about their proving matches was so very awsome. if you see this lein could you give a hint a when chapter five is going to be released or if not that than a confirmation that it is in the works????

 

[Lien_Geller]

Hi there FatalConscripts! Sorry this took so long to reply to. Don't look for The Missing Dragon Ch. 05 any time soon. I usually post a chapter of that story and then go work on something else in between. I have a few projects going at the minute, and I don't know when they'll be ready. I do have a very long story that will be published in its entirety on here one day. Hopefully that will make people think "Oh hey! Now I get why he's so fucking slow. He's been spending all that time writing this!"

 

[DistortedSense]

Hey Lien

Hello, this is my first time using the forums. I'm a fan of your Missing Dragon series so I figured I'd throw my story in here. It's a fantasy in which the main character is transported to another world, and it follows him as he tries to figure out what to do. There is very little sex in the series (in fact there still hasn't been any in the 6 chapters posted so far, mostly because I haven't felt like it was the right time for it to happen), it's focused on the adventure with romance as a b or c plot. Gah, I can't really explain it very well, so I'll just leave it at that and let you take a look at it.

Bound in Spirals Ch.01: https://www.literotica.com/s/bound-in-spirals

Anyways, I humbly await your advice.

 

[kaleidoscopeyes]

After reading through several of your reviews I would love to see what you think of my first story. It is the story of a woman who finds some new uses for household items, it is in the Toy/Masturbation category and there is a bit of pain with pleasure vein.

literotica.com/s/feeling-the-burn

 

[Lien_Geller]

Bound in Spirals

Let’s buckle up and make sure our seat backs and tray tables are in their upright and locked positions. Here’s what I thought of DistortedSense’s Bound in Spirals Ch.01.

I like how you start out with a literal wake-up call. Most of us have been yelled at to get out of bed at some point and it gives us an immediate sense of sympathy for the protagonist. Obviously, it’s more difficult to make protagonists relatable in the long run, but openings like this are a good way to settle us into their corner from the offset. This is especially important in the realm of Sci-Fi and fantasy where characters can often be slightly alien to the reader and difficult to connect with.

I did notice a few odd touches in the description of his home life that were a little bit strange for me though. Full disclosure, I am being nitpicky here so feel free to ignore this stuff. The first thing I noticed was this:

His icy blue eyes stared back daggers at him in the mirror as he brushed his teeth.

Nothing major here, but the idea of “staring daggers” at someone for me means looking at them angrily. So this kind of comes across as him staring angrily at himself in the mirror. Whereas I think you’re just saying he has a powerful stare. Either way, I’m a little confused.

This is followed by an almost casual reference to his sister beating the crap out of him with a softball bat in the middle of the night. It’s very weird to me that you just drop that in there with no context. You’ve already established Madeline as unlikable, so it seems like overkill. Also, without any sort of reasoning behind it, it feels like she just randomly visits him at night to beat him up, which makes her seem outright insane.

His thoughts afterwards as he goes on his walk felt very expositiony to me. It feels like you’re just having him decide to get out to Portland then and there. His problems have obviously been going on for a long time, so his sudden thoughts of moving that morning feel slightly out of place. It seems to me like the thought should have occurred to him a while ago, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case here.

Ok now I’m going to be ridiculously nitpicky and mention the introduction of Ms. Albright. When she first appears it’s as a bespectacled librarian with a dignified voice. You go on to elaborate on that later, but in those first few lines she formed the image of a stereotypical librarian in my head. For me, this is a grey haired lady in her 50’s. Not an attractive woman in her 30’s that could be mistaken for medieval nobility. It’s not really a mistake, but as in real life there’s usually only one chance to make a good first impression. Make sure it’s the one you want!

I do like that you elaborate on her personality and that he finds her intelligence attractive. It’s not an avenue many erotic writers explore as well as they could, and it’s something you did well.

I also like the set-up for him travelling into another world too. Taking an old mysterious book back into the dark, dusty archives? Good way to build up tension and has a subtle, mythical element to it.

Then we get zapped into another Sam and into a fairly good action scene that’s hindered a little bit at the start by “filling in” the reader with what’s going on. I know you probably wanted this scene to happen in the middle of a fight, but it’d probably have been better to start out a little earlier in the proceedings. Starting out with Samson’s thoughts about how the knight was toying with him is a big red alarm towards telling and not showing. It also stalls the action, which is admittedly well handled once you actually stop thinking and get going with it.

As another aside, Sam’s thoughts just don’t feel right to me. As I said earlier, they don’t feel organic at all and come off more like pauses for exposition. Sometimes it’s exposition that isn’t really necessary.

'It feels as though my mind is moving somehow... that doesn't really make any sense though. Does it?’

Tell me, does a person really think like that? I know I don’t. It feels more like you as a writer are pausing to talk to the reader. Then your character stops being a character and starts being a mouthpiece. It doesn’t come across well, and it isn’t really necessary. I’d just fold his thoughts into the narrative. Here’s a couple more:

'Am I just going bonkers, or is this some sort of hypnotize thing, or magic maybe?'

'Wow that's... I'm not... feeling is... portals maybe... coming to... mindful for...'

That last one in particular is just plain bad. What really pisses me off is that you follow that last quote up with this:

His mind felt like an ocean in a storm, thoughts crashing into one another like waves buffeted by the wind.

That right there is really good! It works a shitload better in explaining to me what’s going on than your sudden boner for as many ellipsis as possible up there.

Slight problem here:

He felt a sharp pressure on his chest, like something sharp was poking him, and he was laying in a warm liquid, on his back.

That doesn’t sound right. For a start, pick a “sharp” to get rid of and just stick with the other one. Also, 3 commas in one sentence is pushing your luck.

“He felt as if he were laying on his back in warm liquid with something sharp poking at his chest.”

No commas, all the info, much smoother to read.

'Okay, calm down Samson you are fine, just relax, and let yourself wake up a bit.'

Other than perhaps having a full stop instead of a comma between “fine” and “just” I actually liked that. It feels much more natural and like a genuine thought rather than an attempt at exposition. It also helps us get into his head and his state of mind, which is what written thoughts should generally aim to do.

he was in a full suit of armor the same color as the gauntlets.

That seems slightly redundant to me. Why would I assume the colour of the armour was different to the colour of the gauntlets in the first place? It’s not exactly a common thing is it?

'So, we must have completely switched places? or maybe I really am just going mental, and this is something my mind conjured?' Sam tried to make sense of everything that had happened.

I can see he’s trying to make sense of everything that had happened from his questions. You don’t need to tell me twice.

The next issue is a case of me not being in the same place as you when it comes to Sam looking at the body of the man who’d killed the other Sam. The guy just died horribly, and it wasn’t even original Sam who killed him and he’s stood there as if taking credit for it. It’s also slightly cruel to mock the fallen knight like that, even if it is just in his thoughts. You didn’t do much to establish the guy really deserved to die in the first place, so it makes Sam come across as a bit of an arse when he thinks of him as a “whiny bitch” for having his hand cut off.

Ugh, another annoying thought that doesn’t sound right:

'Did I travel back in time? Or maybe to another planet? Or perhaps this could be in the distant future, after some sort of apocalyptic event that sent humanity back to simpler times.'

Don’t do that. It reads like you possessing Sam and saying: “Guys! Look at all the awesome stuff that might be happening here! Isn’t it awesome!? Don’t worry, you’re going to love it!” Either way, it doesn’t further Sam’s character or the plot at all. I don’t know if it’s just me here, but every time you make him have a thought I’m bracing myself right now. I’ve seen 2 that felt well placed and actually informed me of something about his character. All the others have been crap. You also often then go on to write in the narrative something much more effective than what the thought accomplished.

I’m also noticing that you’re getting very comma-happy here. It wasn’t a problem I noticed at the start, but I’m seeing a lot of sentences with commas that aren’t really necessary. Some also could be replaced with more effective phrasing, and some should be full stops.

When Sam goes to meet the woman with the bird horse, the story picks up again. He’s got much more to do here and your writing handles the more active scenes much better. I liked the introduction to the world, and it was fun to see that Sam had some kind of magical ability. After finishing up Ch. 01 I have to say that the story here is a fairly good start that’s bogged down by some slow moments and the occasional distracting choices in the writing. The ideas are pretty sound as far as I can tell. The world you’ve created feels like a place I want to get to know a lot more about. Unfortunately I do feel like Sam was a slightly bland protagonist. He lacks a certain degree of personality, though he does have an admittedly compelling back story. There were times when he came off slightly mean or off-putting when I don’t think he was supposed to because of this. I didn’t understand his perspective, and that made it difficult to relate to him. He certainly isn’t irredeemable though, and these were just speed bumps on an otherwise interesting road. The frustrating thoughts aside, I’d say I did like this story. I’ll probably check out chapter 2! I might give a full review of the rest of the chapters if I finish them.

Hope this was helpful!

P.S. I'm kind of looking back at this and wondering if there's something more with Sam's thoughts that's bothering me than what I mentioned. I can't quite place it and feel a little unsure. They don't feel natural, and sometimes oddly can be quite devoid of personality. They also seem to be used as an excuse for exposition. I dunno, maybe you're just hitting a personal peeve of mine and I'm overreacting? Other people who check this thread, do I have a point here or am I being unreasonable (and, of course, why?)

 

[DistortedSense]

Wow, this is great! It's very helpful, I will definitely have to go back and fix a lot. It's been awhile since I went back and read the first chapter and I definitely notice a lot of personality inconsistencies with Sam. I suppose that's because I didn't know how exactly I wanted him to behave at the time. He definitely isn't meant to be as mean as he appears here. I'd like to think my writing has improved since then and that the thoughts have become more natural. Anyways, this has been very insightful and I will put your comments to good use. I'd love to hear your thoughts if you continue reading!

 

[Hellball]

Hi Lien. If you don't mind, I have some concerns about one.

This is potentially the first chapter of a serial, but I wrote it many years ago and never continued it. Rereading it now, it seems poorly written, but I'd like some outside perspective. Its a spanking fetish story, like pretty much everything I write.

https://www.literotica.com/s/moesha-the-maid

Literotica also italicized the entire second page, for some reason. Not sure who/how to notify about that.

Anyway, I appreciate any feedback and advise you can give me.

 

[Lien_Geller]

Feeling the Burn

Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for kaleidoscopeyes with Feeling the Burn.

And I haven’t got a fucking clue what to say about it.

It’s not that it’s bad or anything like that. It’s just so far divided from the usual story I review here, and it caters to a particular kink that I’m not really into. So although the content really isn’t my cup of tea, I can’t really criticize it all that much.

That being said, I can tell you some things that put me off of it and… hope they make sense? Just don’t take this as the kind of criticism I usually give. It leans way more toward personal opinion, but since you asked for a review from me then here’s what I thought.

First off, it’s way too short for me. This is a stroker through and through and it’s not long enough to… ahem… fulfil my needs in that department. Secondly, it’s completely devoid of any real characterisation. Me woman. Woman horny. Woman find spoon. Woman improvise. I get that this isn’t really a story that’s meant to show off character, but character adds a lot to erotica. Since you’ve largely overlooked it here except for some real basics, I’m not really all that into it.

I also noticed you had a bit of an “And Then” problem. Meaning almost every sentence was describing what she did to herself next. There wasn’t much stopping to smell the roses or any real flourishes in branching out into the other senses. Without stuff like this it’s hard to savour the moments in the writing where things really heat up. A lot of the things you’re describing are really kinky, and I presume doing good things to your target audience. Just slow down a little bit.

So yeah, sorry this is really short! I don’t have all that much else to say about it. Remember this criticism is planted in my personal opinions more than usual because I had to go there to say anything about it at all. So if I’ve missed the mark completely then my apologies for it.

I will say that your handling of the language gives you a good starting point. It’s not flawless, but I see this is your first story on Lit and on that front it’s something to be proud of. I didn’t get frustrated with the writing at any point. If you ever decide to take a bite at something bigger then let me know, it’d be cool to see what you can do.

 

[kaleidoscopeyes]

Thanks

Thank you for your review. I definitely will try to take your advice into consideration while writing my next stories.

 

[Sammael Bard]

Here's one for the butchering

I managed to complete my story just a few days ago. Here's the link:

https://www.literotica.com/s/insidious

It's Sci-Fi, contains violence, doesn't have any happy-ending and involves a lot of throats being slit and heads blasted off. It doesn't have any Incest or Non-Con sex.

I'm looking for tips on improvement -- how to improve my writing style -- and feedback on the plot. I'll appreciate it a lot if you suggest any improvement with an example of yours.

The story is f***ing long at 10 lit pages and I don't have anywhere to go. So, take your time, should you choose to look into it.

TIA, just in case I'm unavailable.

 

[Lien_Geller]

Let the butchering commence!

Heya Bard! Happy to lend a meat cleaver to the cause. ^_^

Here’s my thoughts on Insidious by Sammael Bard.

First off, I’m not entirely sure that you need to open up with that glossary of military terms you’ve got there. It immediately makes me think this is going to be hard military sci-fi or fantasy which is its own genre with its own fans. Nothing at all wrong with that, but you might be turning some people off who don’t like that kind of thing from the get-go, and doing that pretty needlessly too. I haven’t read the story yet so I dunno if it’s appropriate or not, but you don’t want to start out by getting rid of potential readers, surely? Let the reader try and ground himself or herself in the story first, at least. Let the story speak for itself. Which brings me to the second point on this subject in that I don’t think that good sci-fi and fantasy shouldn’t really need a glossary anymore. Some of the stuff you’ve mentioned there is pretty self-evident. Surely you could give the reader a better explanation in the actual text if you’re feeling unsure? Describe a helicopters blades swirling when mentioning a Helo and you can’t really mistake it for anything else. If you’re also unsure about people figuring stuff out these particular words then you could just have explained them outright in the not-so-sneaky ways we authors do.

“We’ve got three light armoured vehicles incoming to this position”

”Three L.A.V.’s? That shouldn’t be a problem, sir.”

It feels more natural than a block glossary up-front and it hardly needs to take up much time in the text.

”If you feel you couldn't figure out any word in the story and I didn't mention it above, use common sense, Google or ask me in the comments section.”

I also read that as being quite snarky. I don’t need to be told how to do a Google search, thanks. Yours truly, the lord and master of snarkiness.

A lot of the stuff I mentioned up until now isn’t really a big deal, but these are potentially off-putting things that aren’t getting you much in return.

When it comes to author’s notes, I’d stick with a simple thank you for reading (although I’d leave that until the end). The only info I feel I need in starting out a story as a reader is if the story spans into other potentially turn-off categories. This is particularly true in Sci-Fi/Fantasy as the genre tends to enfold a lot of other genres in it and allows for a lot of kinks to be explored. If there’s particular fetishes then by all means outline them, also if it leans heavily into horror or another genre then I’m fine with you letting me know about that. Also, if you’ve got a bit of a following on Lit and you’re trying something new then I don’t mind author’s letting their fans know to expect something different. Oh, and of course shout outs to editors and other helpers are fine too. Otherwise, keep shtum and let the story speak for itself.

I know, I break this rule in some of my stories, but those were stories written a while back and I’ve got older and uglier since then.

Your opening few lines aren’t exactly a brilliant way to plant me into an action scene. Slow, weak, and pathetic? Why am I going to want to read about this guy? I know you’re trying to set a mood here, but it’s a very grim mood when I’m trying to find a hook to settle myself into your story.

A few things right off about your writing style here. I’m not a grammar expert (and I’m being insanely nitpicky here) but some of this doesn’t really work for me. I’ll try to blither through some explanations and hope it gets across.

The scorching sand clung to my blood, caking the wounds and making it worse with its sting.

First off, shouldn’t it be “making them worse” since you seem to be referring to the wounds there. Otherwise it sounds like you’re talking about the blood itself and blood’s important for a lot of reason but it isn’t capable of stinging. Blood not being attached to the central nervous system and all.

I also want to note this:

Man...it hurt like hell.

I’m pretty sure there should be a space between the end of the ellipsis and the word “it” in there. Also, I don’t see what you need the “Man” for at all. Leaving it at “It hurt like hell” would give that moment more impact, especially since you’ve left it on its own paragraph there and clearly want it to be impactful. Having that ellipsis kind of stalls the reading of the sentence and feels really unnecessary to what you’re trying to do. It doesn’t give the character much personality or add anything to the narrative and takes away from what you’re trying to do. Lose it.

"You're dead!" he shouted, his words clear over the roar of the bloodthirsty crowd.

”You’re dead!” he shouted over the roar of the bloodthirsty crowd.

Again, it’s your story so write how you want, but a little preening like that can help a great deal with story flow. It’s also something that authors need to do themselves, since editors generally just focus on the story making sense over stuff like this.

Now let’s look at this:

My hands were bound. I had no armor, no visor to protect my head and no weapon to stop his blade. I had a few broken ribs and, most probably, had an unrecognizable face from all the bashing. Getting up this time was harder than the last, but get up I did.

That feels very passive to me. It doesn’t do a lot to plant me into the action and I feel a degree of distance between myself and the protagonist that I don’t think should be there.

Here’s what I’d do with it:

I pulled tight on the ropes binding my wrists behind my back, feeling them bite deep into the flesh they’d already torn raw. There was nothing to stop the never-ending stream of blows and slashes whenever the bastard set upon me. No armour. No helmet. Nothing but a swollen and bloody face and a chest lined with broken ribs. Crawling up to my knees caused fresh agony through every nerve, standing was even worse. It didn’t matter. I wasn’t going to give the bastard the satisfaction of kicking me whilst I was down.

Okie doke. I get that you want to establish a feeling of helplessness and pain. So I elaborated a little on the ropes, and showed that the guy wants to fight since it’s suggested he’s been trying to pull his arms free despite the pain it causes. This hopefully plants the reader firmly in this guy’s shoes and creates empathy as well as getting them to root for him. Then I follow that up with a sense of how desperate his situation really is, and how exposed he is out there. You use the set up “I had…” there twice in succession. That immediately distances me from the guy. It’s someone telling a story of the past from the present. It’s not something I should be directly experiencing. What you’re describing is also pretty mundane. A checklist of the items he doesn’t have and a quick medical update. I don’t really feel any of it, and I really think that’s what you’re trying to establish here. I tried to establish the sense of helplessness a little more. Instead of listing what he doesn’t have and then mentioning his injuries, I set up his injuries as his only means of defence by suggesting that’s what he does have instead. I then take the reader through the struggle of him getting up which I think lands better after showing his pain a little more. I also add an element of the guy’s character by showing why he’s getting up. Cuz he’s a stubborn SOB.

Doing this kind of stuff is hard, and it’s much easier to think over when you’ve got time to pick over a paragraph like that. I’m also being nitpicky here, but you said you wanted my thoughts on what you could do to improve your style and that’s what I think. I’m not trying to re-write your story for you, just hoping to give some food for thought.

One last thing on the prologue. You mention the wails of despair of people who’d lost bets on how many hits he’d take before he went down. That doesn’t seem very necessary to me. You’ve already established well enough that he should be down by now. Taking that element and reflecting it somewhere else in the scene in the gamblers takes my attention away from the guy and doesn’t really do much with it elsewhere. Again, a minor thing but one that’s worth noting.

Alright then, after all that, let’s get on to Chapter 1.

I read this chapter as a whole before commenting and on the whole it’s pretty good. It’s slightly overly-grim and there was a moment there where I thought that instead of going through his past memories we were going into the gladiatorial arena again. It was slightly disorienting, going back and forth like that without much to hold onto in terms of the protagonists characterisation. Nothing major though, and you are doing something there with the time jumps that I don’t envy you for and you’re doing it well enough.

It was hard to mess with a woman like her. Only Mellek had the guts. The rest of the team preferred to laugh at the consequences.

Nothing to criticize there, I just really liked that line. Loved the slight twist on expectations. She was a tough lady. Only one man had the guts to stand up to her. And he doesn’t do it very well. Made me smile. Nice one.

Only really have two criticisms here. One is that the military training is a bit generic. Feels a lot like every war-cadet movie I’ve ever seen. Nothing all that original. Sometimes that’s not a bad thing but you’re not really anchoring this character all that much. I’m getting a sense that he’s a bit of a blank slate, and I think it’s hurting the story a bit. I also feel his back story is again a bit cliché. The kid who joins the army after commiting a righteous crime and having no other choice? Kinda been done to death. I’m not saying it can’t be done again and done well, but I need to feel for who the kid is and what he’s thinking and why he is the way he is. I’m not getting that right now. Doing that effectively without derailing your story is also fucking hard so I’m not having a serious dig at you here, but still. I feel he’s lacking depth of character right now and the plot isn’t picking up the slack just yet.

Just FYI to add something here, I’m noticing you refer back to his relationship with his mother a number of times in the story. The problem here is that as a defining characteristic that relationship doesn’t work for me because you’ve only shown me the bad side of it. I know his mother was someone who got beaten up a lot. You haven’t taken the time to show me why her relationship with him was so positive, so it doesn’t have the impact it should when he thinks about her later in the story. It also doesn’t work as a driving force of motivation for him either.

Chapter 2!

As tempting as it might sound, a SAF sponsored sex education wasn't something anyone looked forward to.

No shit or hanky-panky, and clinical to boot.

No shit allowed? Theres… there’s supposed to be shit during sex? Gross.

The sex itself was moderately terrifying rather than arousing for me. I’m not someone who’s into bondage or dick-needles. So that kind of turned me off a bit. FYI, dick needles is probably something you should have mentioned in your author’s note. That’s definitely a moment that would have made me go look for another story if I hadn’t at least been warned about it beforehand. Not sexy.

"Love live justice! Long live equality!" He thrust his fist into the air as he wrapped up his speech. "Long Live the Union!"

I really do love live justice. I really hate to have to watch my justice pre-taped from the week before, y’know? It’s really better aired live. That’s why I love it.

On to chapter 3!

It was my first assignment behind enemy lines that started a chain of events which brought nothing but grief and misery.

Really? That’s too bad because it’s just been a barrel of laughs until now. What with all the domestic abuse, murder, vicious training regimens and dick-needles. You’re telling me the grief and misery is just getting started? Whoopee!

The pitch-black darkness enveloped me like a shroud, the black nothingness stretching out to infinity.

It’s black. Black would be the main bullet point of this sentence. Blackish inky blackness of blackened black. Hey it’s DARK okay!?

Sorry, I think I’ve had too much caffeine. Ok. There’s such a thing as trying too hard and that quote is an example of it. Snip it down a bit.

The darkness enveloped me like a shroud, stretching out to infinity.

Simple, elegant, all meaning conveyed, and it flows better. Snip-snip!

There’s also a bit of exposition-heavy stuff going on around here that might have been better put another way. Maybe the soldiers are eating in the mess hall before being deployed. They’re talking about random crap. Radiohead mentions the new tech he’s getting his hands on causing the protagonist to reflect on technology levels. One of the soldiers comes from one of the low income places where they’re not getting anything like that. Lydia is uncharacteristically quiet about her upcoming mission. It would probably have gone down better to deliver the exposition that way, but to your credit it doesn’t outstay its welcome and it’s not as huge an infodump to put me off.

Taking another deep breath, I ran forward and jumped over the edge with her, into the black darkness.

Again, I take it for granted that the darkness is black. If you’ve got some fluorescent pink darkness to show me then by all means mention that, but if not then you don’t need to tell me darkness is black.

I liked that first mission on the whole though. It felt a lot more natural and in the moment than your first action scene did. I had a more vested interest in the characters and it was a good way to introduce Radiohead and Lydia. Nicely done.

That being said, I’m still not that interested in the main dude and I’m not sure where the story is going at this point. Although I will admit I’ve warmed to the protagonist a little bit now, it’s not enough to hook me given that it’s such a mystery where your story is going. You’ve got a gladiator fight, a hyper-sleep, a military training session, a mission gone wrong. I’m not sure how this all fits together and your main guy isn’t interesting enough to keep me invested in all the moving parts.

I gotta say though, I’m enjoying their second mission for its own sake. The missions have livened up the story quite a bit, and you seem much more in your element here. The second mission screw up was a fun scene, especially in the plane and soon thereafter. I feel you’re getting more focused now and kind of almost wish that the story had started here. It feels like you’re a lot more comfortable in your characters skin too, which is helpful in adding a more stable voice to him and his personality. I think the introduction of Ashley also helps in this regard as he has someone to bounce off of more rather than just being in his own head all the time.

That being said, I do feel like he kind of falls for Ashley way too hard way too fast. Dunno if she’s got some secret love powers or something but it seems very out of character for this professional soldier who’s been trained against everything to fall for a girl just for essentially picking him up and being hot. I feel there needs to be more of a connection there that you need to earn before you can get away with writing some of the stuff about how he feels about her.

With that in mind, it was a good sex scene. Intimate, sexy and fun. My only slight hiccup was your “In and out, in and out, in and out...” line. That just felt slightly out of place there. Kind of like you don’t assume your readers know how sex works. I know tab P needs to be inserted into slot V and I know they go in and out a lot for maximum effect. No need to get down to that level of detail.

Ok then, I’ve read through the end and seen the rude wake up call and zombie apocalypse. So it’s time to sum up.

There was a lot to like about this one. Despite what I’d call a speed bump in your first action scene, the missions you describe your protagonist going on were really great. Nice cohesion between the characters and a level of action that was really entertaining to read. I loved how you thought into the characters planning and executing their attacks and their reactions when everything went wrong were thrilling. Top marks there.

Your writing style also started off a bit wonky but quickly mended itself as the story got going. I’d say you need to work more in giving your character a distinct voice. No, actually, he is distinct. It’s just that he’s not very interesting. I don’t really get why he’s doing a lot of what he’s doing. He’s just sort of there a lot. I don’t even know if he excels at being a soldier or not. I’ve stated the reasons why, and I’ll say again that getting a good character voice in first person narration is both essential and extremely difficult to do. You don’t face-plant it, but I think it’s something you need to improve upon.

Alternatively, I think you could go for a more focused plot. I liked the individual segments of the story for what they were, but without a strong central character to take me through them they felt a bit all over the place. You start out with gladiators (for some reason) and end up with zombies. That’s fine, this is sci-fi but I’m not sure why you’re doing it that way. This is also not the compelling sort of mystery that can propel readers through certain books. It’s more of a head-scratching kind of thing that leaves me feeling slightly disoriented and wandering what the hell’s going on.

It’s not so bad to do this throughout certain parts of certain kinds of stories, but yours goes on for a long time without really explaining much at all. It’s like watching Lost, except without the awesome characters. First we’re in a broken home, now we’re in a training camp, now we’re on an elite soldier stealth mission, now we’re romancing a girl in a quiet rural area, now we’re on a space ship hallucinating and causing chaos, now we’re in a zombie attack. Ok, fine, but where the hell are you going with all this? I don’t have a clue.

That being said, you have bitten off a huge chunk of stuff to do in this one and for the most part I do think you handle it quite well. Although I wouldn’t finish your story by telling people to rate it as five stars with such a staggering level of condescension. Not sure if you wanted it to come of that way but oh boy, it really does. That’s just asking for trouble.

Anyhoo, I rated it 4* since you wanted a rating, just to be annoying. Also, because that’s what I think it deserves. Fun read though, just a few too many speed bumps for me to give it a 5. A lot of what I mention here is quite small stuff, but when you try something as epic as what you're going for here the black marks show up more even if they aren't very big. Good on you for having the balls to go for it! Looking forward to the next chapter!

 

[Sammael Bard]

First off, thanks for the detailed feedback. It's really hard to come across some thoughtful stuff other than small yays and nays.

I started writing this story about a year ago, and it looked nothing like this. Some bumps, breaks and a vacation later, I restarted the project again this Feb. If you find yourself enjoying the latter bits more, it's probably due to this fact. My writing has improved a bit over the period of a year and I guess that showed in my story.

Grammar isn't my best thing, but I try. Repetitive and odd choice of words are something that I'm aware of. Like that "pitch-black darkness" and other yadda yadda. I need some more writing practise.

And it definitely was my intention to come off like an ass. It was a tough job, but I did it. I admittedly went overboard with a stiff author's note, but I'll amend that in my next edit.

For a story having no happy-ending or plenty of sex, it's doing better than I expected. A rewrite is in order, a few parts like the Eric-Ashley thingy (In and out, In and out, In and out ) and improving Eric's voice.

This is the first time I'm writing something of this magnitude, that too over a period of a year, so I wasn't surprised that the main protagonist's voice wasn't great. I guess that's the drawback of focussing more on the plot rather than the characters themselves. One more thing to rewrite, I guess.

Anyway, thanks again for looking into it.

Much appreciated.

 

[Kaneda_Shinaro]

Hi Lien,

I've posted the first chapter of a Steampunk fantasy I was hoping you'd take a look at. It's not too long and doesn't feature full sex (just guy on girl oral) as I'm building to bigger things in future chapters.

Hopefully you'll enjoy this...

https://www.literotica.com/s/shadows-in-the-light-ch-01

 

[Lien_Geller]

Tah Dah!

So this is Kaneda_Shinaro’s Shadows in the Light Ch. 01. Let me get my shit-kickers on and we’ll begin.

Your opening paragraph isn’t terrible, but it’s not particularly captivating either. I like the attempt at setting a scene here, and you do use imagery quite well. It’s just that there’s no immediate hook to plant me into your story. A character staring off into the sunset might be a pretty image to hone in on, but it’s not a terribly interesting one since the character is basically doing nothing.

The second paragraph doesn’t fare much better in that you immediately go into the rookie mistake of heading down to exposition town without making me care about your character first.

This is an issue a lot of sci-fi/fantasy author’s run into. Before telling me about the masters, the zeppelin, and her ominous future, and the Other Realm, you need to give me a vested interest in your character or your plot. So far these just seem like abstract concepts, since I know nothing about what's going on. There’s lots of ways to go about investing a reader into a story. So far it seems to be something you’ve overlooked almost entirely.

You also don’t sufficiently explain any of these concepts and why they’re relevant and important to your story. So as a reader I’m kind of lost for what to pay attention to. You’re just throwing a lot of stuff my way and hoping something sticks, or at least that’s how it feels.

It keeps going too. Now she’s an ambassador. She’s flying into a warzone.

Why does all this matter? Is one side of the war clearly in the right? Has something terrible happened, or is it about to happen? If she doesn't stop something from happening, will millions die? Who are these millions that will die and why do they need to be saved?

So far this kind of reminds me of the opening of The Phantom Menace. Two ambassadors are travelling to stop a trade embargo. Also, like Phantom Menace, it’s not exactly gripping to witness people talking about stuff like that. Even when the sex starts I feel detached from it because I still don’t know much about who these characters are beyond basic concepts. She’s a knight. He’s a captain. Ok, so what? At first it seems as an ex-boyfriend she might be hostile to him, but then they’re going at it in his office.

The sex itself was serviceable. Nothing wrong with it but it didn’t really light my world on fire. I think that’s partially due to a lack of chemistry between the characters and partially because it’s aimed more toward the female side of the base pleasure spectrum. Nothing wrong with that, but as a card-carrying owner of a penis I’m afraid it didn’t drive me wild with lust.

You’re obviously trying to set up a lot of stuff here, but in doing that you’ve forgotten that readers need to actually be invested at the beginning of a story. I don’t get that here. This reads a lot more like the start of a 5th or 6th chapter than the first. No real groundwork is laid in terms of characterisation or plot development. The latter is all set-up and the former is barely touched upon. She’s a sultry woman who likes sex. Ok, sure, now remember where this story is. You do not have to go far around these parts to find sultry female characters who like sex. I’m not asking for complete originality, but an endearing character quirk or something that makes me relate to her might be nice.

Like many amateurs in sci-fi/fantasy, you’re clearly interested in the world and the concepts you’re introducing. That’s fine, but it seems like you’re forgetting some of the basic rules of storytelling in putting those ideas forward. I’m getting a lot of seemingly abstract concepts, and not finding much in the way of a compelling plot or an interesting character that I can roll with.

Sorry to be so negative on you, and in your defence this is clearly just a snippet of the beginning of a bigger work. It’s just that as beginnings go you really aren’t giving me much of a hook to continue reading, and that’s a big part of what beginnings of stories should do.