Litlog2018++

[Senna Jawa]

wh, short 5--tactics vs strategy

--

More fundamental than views are meta-views.
​

--

 

[cherries_on_snow]

Narcissism vs. humanity

 

[cherries_on_snow]

Are you arguing that it is acceptable for a person to gang up on a newbie and beat her down for over a decade because she just wanted to?

Did abusing me help with the nightmares???
Doubt it. The whole enterprise was a Cult of cunt that an astonishing number of ostensibly thinking people bought into. Bizarre.

 

[cherries_on_snow]

Whatever. Surely by now all involved must realize how stupid it was. Just let it stop. I am fine with that.

 

[Senna Jawa]

wh, shorts 2 and 3--commentary

I'll comment (briefly) only on two of my short notes:

• [2] _ The difference between practical vs, realistic is DRAMATIC
  
  --for instance, I have an utmost practical economic solution, the same goes for education, ... These solutions are simple and easy to implement, they can be done gradually in order to ease any transition pain... But these solutions are not realistic for a myriad of reasons (most everybody's actual goal, human nature, CHAOS).
  
  --
• [3] _ A mean tanka--this expression is almost an oxymoron. Tanka is supposed to be kind, not mean. However, I hope, the humor of this text saves the day.
  
  The syllable distribution 3+3+5+5+6 = 21 is far from the religious 5+7+5+7+7 = 31 but at least it's short.
  
  Otherwise, this text's style still feels quite classical. In particular, it has a characteristic hinge (line 3) which bridges the top and the bottom of a tanka.
  

 

[todski28]

Is it English or a typo?



By definition, a positive integer n is called perfect <=:=> the sum of (positive) divisors of n which are smaller than n is equal to n.

The smallest perfect number is 6; indeed, 6 = 1 + 2 + 3. This perfect integer was known and praised in old ancient times. The second perfect number is

28_ =_ 1+2+4+7+14​

Euclid's Elements of Geometry includes a chapter on number theory, including a theorem about numbers

E(p)_ :=_ 2^p * (2^p-1)
​

being perfect when 2^p-1 is prime (so that p is prime too). The first three examples:

• 2^1 * (2^2-1) = 2*3 = 6
• 2^2 * (2^3-1) = 4*7 = 28
• 2^4 * (2^5-1) = 16*31 = 496

Many centuries later, Leonhard Euler proved that all even perfect numbers are integers E(p) (where 2^p-1 is prime), i.e. there are no other even perfect numbers. This is very nice but we do not know whether or not there are infinitely many prime numbers of the form 2^p-1. In the case of odd perfect numbers, not even one is known, possibly there is none.



Todski, share your thoughts (if you're so inclined). I'll post one more short, then I'll comment on all four shorts 0-3 in a follow-up. Thank you for your feedback.

Gling is a horrible typo

Should have been going.... I will fix the post so it reads properly.

Thank you for the explanation of perfect numbers an interesting concept, and something I'm likely to look at further

 

[Senna Jawa]

wh, short 6--my bio

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life is a chain of small suicides
​

--

 

[todski28]

--

life is a chain of small suicides
​

--

This intrigues me a lot since I've started trying to exercise my intellect more, trust me I'm struggling greatly with this!

The notion that truth sets you free first comes with an associated cost, i.e. you have to let some of your own personal held beliefs and biases die, possibly kill them off with impunity like trimming dead wood to help retain a trees vitality, and allow the rest to grow stronger.

Killing off childish behaviours and rationalisations to grow in prinicipal a stronger core set of beliefs.

A small chain of suicides indeed.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Two angles

This intrigues me a lot [...]

Killing off childish behaviours and rationalisations to grow in principal a stronger core set of beliefs.

A small chain of suicides indeed.

Todski, great interpretation, thank you. Indeed, one has certain illusions, is attached to them, but has to give up on them, virtually has to kill them. (BTW, a digression about the perfect, I am familiar with the metric system).

I have written my bio a very long time ago but it is as true now as it was then. All my life I had a strong tendency to act against my interest, it was like small suicides.

***

It's well recognized that short texts, e.g. haiku, tend to have many interpretations, it's only natural (logical)--in haiku, it is called suggestiveness. Only some of the short texts have a chance to be poetry. Haiku does due to its philosophy and general rules (e.g. season reference, ...) The point is to have words which consist almost totally of the sensual material so that the text is virtually a concrete report and nothing else--well, almost (yin & yang).

 

[todski28]

Narcissism vs. humanity

Are you arguing that it is acceptable for a person to gang up on a newbie and beat her down for over a decade because she just wanted to?

Did abusing me help with the nightmares???
Doubt it. The whole enterprise was a Cult of cunt that an astonishing number of ostensibly thinking people bought into. Bizarre.

Whatever. Surely by now all involved must realize how stupid it was. Just let it stop. I am fine with that.

I'm not sure if you're speaking to myself, directing the phrasing at the entire board, or directing the comments and questions to Senna Jawa as there is no context. I don't know if you are trying to bait a response, or comments are simply comments?

It does seem from some of your poetry and comments that there was a bullying type culture within this forum when you were here previously?

since some of the comments on bullying I made are an attempt to correlate a positive light to the concept of bullying i.e. trying to articulate, badly I might add why it presents itself beyond the notion that it is only a power play and also looking at bullying culture having a fundamental purpose it seems like I need to answer these questions and the comments.

sooo here I go sticking my nose in and hoping it doesn't get cut off.....

"Narcissism is the pursuit of gratification from vanity or egotistic admiration of one's own attributes. The term originated from the Greek mythology, where the young Narcissus fell in love with his own image reflected in a pool of water."

I'm not sure if this is directed at Senna's poem above your comment, or if it is a general comment, if it is about Senna's poem, please share a deeper communication on it, I would be intrigued to hear why you would comment in such a fashion, no ridicule or judgement simple curiosity. if it is about something else, then I'm lost.

The last three open ended questions are accusatory in nature implying things went past a point of your comfort and so far as to isolate you and make you feel targeted and bullied.

I must admit anecdotally that I haven't had a negative experience here in the slightest, I was accepted had my work criticised and have grown exponentially from all of the exposure, aside from my own personal appreciation of this forum I have never seen any bullying behaviour, Ive seen words exchanged in anger, seen blatant dismissal and ridicule of work and some healthy barbed challenges but nothing of a contembtible vile nature.

I doubt anyone abusing anyone else had any help with their nightmares because of the abuse,

I havent seen much in the way of bullying since i have been here, nor have I engaged in any bullying so please share your story and maybe we can sort this out rather than it be a festering resentment

 

[Senna Jawa]

wh, short 0--a comment

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Poetic license does not apply to poetry.​

--

In everyday life and inside a poem, when we encounter a somewhat sloppy expression then we may say "poetic license". Well, there are some great examples of usage of a poetic license but basically, I said:

poetry does not care about excuses
​

(Was my short 0 a poetic license? )

 

[todski28]

https://youtu.be/UD_QlnY8Ggg

https://youtu.be/v58dVxNEFbM

Erosion of free speech by policing all content that offends in the wrong way, you can argue that his joke is utter fucking rubbish but does it warrant a pontential 12 months in prison for wrong think?

Do certain views deserve to be forced underground, the erosions of our ability to freedom of speech almost inevitably ends in totalitarian reigemes, allowing precedents such as this into law takes us in my opinion a few more steps closer to orwellian conceptualisation.

 

[Senna Jawa]

about a video

https://youtu.be/UD_QlnY8Ggg

https://youtu.be/v58dVxNEFbM

Erosion of free speech by policing all content that offends in the wrong way, you can argue that his joke is utter fucking rubbish but does it warrant a pontential 12 months in prison for wrong think?

Do certain views deserve to be forced underground, the erosions of our ability to freedom of speech almost inevitably ends in totalitarian reigemes, allowing precedents such as this into law takes us in my opinion a few more steps closer to orwellian conceptualisation.

(I am in a hurry right now but I want to answer this right away in the most decisive way).

There should be no court case for the above mentioned first video (nor for the second one). If anybody would attempt a case, the court should dismiss this nonsensical attempt instantly. That's how it should be. I am afraid that the reality is uglier and much more stupid.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Ukraine cossacs (counter-revolutionary) music

--

Махно​

Господа Офицеры​

--

 

[cherries_on_snow]

What good purpose can come of bullying a poet? It is a worthless enterprise.

 

[todski28]

(I am in a hurry right now but I want to answer this right away in the most decisive way).

There should be no court case for the above mentioned first video (nor for the second one). If anybody would attempt a case, the court should dismiss this nonsensical attempt instantly. That's how it should be. I am afraid that the reality is uglier and much more stupid.

Well he was convicted today so uk has now decided that free speech is to be policed by the offended

https://youtu.be/aUOx1B2a44c

 

[cherries_on_snow]

I agree that taseless cruelty should not be legally actionable as a hate crime. That does not make the farthead a hero. It makes him a dick who needs therapy.

 

[cherries_on_snow]

As for bullying, though, if you knew that a teacher was tactically inclined to fashion minions of those desperate for ego affirmation into weapons against your kid, would you be content? Bullies are fine, then?

 

[todski28]

Man I can talk shit....

As for bullying, though, if you knew that a teacher was tactically inclined to fashion minions of those desperate for ego affirmation into weapons against your kid, would you be content? Bullies are fine, then?

Is nuance allowed in this arguement or is it only within the confines of yes and no?

If there was a teacher thay way inclined I doubt it would happen in todays world where tolerance, acceptance, diversity and inclusivity are smashed into kids to the point where there are talks of banning best friends, banning stories like snow white because the prince raped the princess by kissing her without consent etc ad nausem.

Unless you want to talk about teachers teaching kids about their white priveledge and how much they should hate themselves for the colour of their skin and bullying minorities into opression tinted lenses? By the way this conversation is one I would love to see play out because I would like to understand my own biases more than I already do by someone explaining to me in a manner I can understand the need for this type of behaviour

I never once condoned bullying, to be able to think about something properly you need to put forth a hypothesis or a pro idea for something that isn't part of main stream acceptance, then have one attack it as critically as possible. Your above example creates an extreme case where bullying in that regard is coersion and forced violence directed at a certain child, wether mine or someone elses I would lose my shit....but how often do parents teach and direct bullying? How often do teachers? To me the above question is loaded to evoke an emotional and visceral Fuck No response and probably not reflective of a real world situation.... though human stupidity is never limited.......

I propose that bullying has a two fold effect despite its negative aspects and connotations, that it helps emotionally strengthen kids and adds a value system to the heirarchy of exclusivity, it's partly why bullying has and probably always will be a part of humanity. Two things can play out of this, the bullying group grows and becomes the mainstream normal behaviour of the group and those that wish to become part of that heirarchy. It also creates opposition by exclusion, the opposition can bifurcate further into sub groups outside the dominant norm.

(from my perspective masculinity and femeninity are not male and female traits they are in varying degrees across both genders, though they are more commen in higher levels in their respective normalised gender, i.e. men on average are more masculine than women and women on average are more femenine than men, though this is being socially engineered in the opposite direction I believe by schools and institutions, and being force fed to us by hollywood mainstream)

I maintain that bullying can have an emotionally strengthening effect if the mental acuity of the bullied child does not break, since boys and those high in masculinity are less likely to suffer negative/neurotic emotion then the process of some bullying helps to strengthen their resolve and further their tolerance levels too new ideas that challenge their more biased notions. Sometimes it has the opposite effect and crushes the victim, but some of that I put down to parenting and support, some of it individual children and some of it not having the conviction as an adult to let your child understand that emotional pain and physical pain though interpreted the same by the brain are different in their outcomes. Sticks and stones may break my bones etc. I strongly believe we need emotional suffering as children to help create strong and high functioning adults same way we strengthen our body with push ups or our minds with study. I beliebe strongly that most human behaviour mind and body can be strenthened and challenged to higher levels of greatness, but there again I admit my logic may be horribly flawed and horribly biased.

From my standpoint if there is no bullying allowed how are children supposed to learn the heroic element of human nature, to be able to stand up and say fucking no, I will not stand this? It makes the totalitarian state creep ever closer because we do not have the courage fortified under fire of youth to struggle through emotional hardship emerging stronger than we went in, it makes us weaker for not having endured something difficult and triumphing.

Bluff and bluster, maybe but why then does the heroic story imcluding the intelligent and justified breaking of rules and social norms resonate so loudly with young children and adults alike? I believe that it on a fundamental level calls to a sense of adventure it calls to competition and it demands sacrifice and responsibility all things valued in social competency and strong trait characteristics for any individual.

As far as Im concerned teachers are already bullying male students out of their preponderance for rough and tumble play, to test limits and learn compentency by failing and succeding in a physical sense which in turn weakens their mental and emotional fortitude.

There is a study that suggests male Rats develop ADHD behaviours if starved of rough and tumble play and that if two rats challenge each other and the larger rat does not let the smaller rat win at least 30% of the time the smaller rat will no longer play, so it allows for the instilling of a sense of fairness within the psyche.

http://www.science20.com/news/resea...n_rough_and_tumble_play_and_social_competence

http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Rough_and_Tumble_Play

I have two boys both in the very high end of intelligence and both very high in disagreeable and agressive nature, both of them have had me called into the school for agressive behaviour but also both of them understand their own trait attributes in terms of physical strength.

My middle son is seven and weighs 29kgs, can comfortably do 7 chinups and 30 pushups he loves physicality and wrestling we wrestle and play 2-5 times a week. He has enough force in his rear naked choke to make me dizzy and light headed before I can break his grip, I am 6ft2 and 280lbs and by normal estimations very strong, my youngest boy has a similar strength level to his brother but is only 5 and 24kgs these are big age and weight gaps that will not close up until after puberty however they wrestle and playfight all the time.

As they have grown my older boy allows the younger to win I would say 20-30% of the time, increasing the chances they will play and wrestle again, both of them are in the highest social groups within the school i.e. they are invited to almost all birthday parties of both male and female students because they understand rules, they understand their limits and both of them have hit kids bullying the weaker kids because I instilled in them a sense of protective instinct. I understand if masculinity and agressive behaviour is not channeled properly it can result in the most apt buzzword of the day "toxic masculinity"

So todays boys are being in my opinion mentally and socially held back by the anti violence anti bullying laws including less boys being allowed to enter football, wrestling, boxing, kickboxing etc because of the fear of concussion this one is grounded in solid science and the fear of male agression which is for the most part semi justified but also the majority of men are not violent abusers and strong fit competent men are in short supply these days.....

girls are being pushed into these roles and from what i can tell need physicality less to develop social skills and understanding, I have two daughters also and me raising my voice is enough to get them to for the most part comply and regulate their behaviour, my boys it is a fight constantly.

My oldest daughter is 10 also highly intelligent but is high in agreeableness and has a high empthy level, she is almost the polar opposite of my boys and as such is more malleable and more susceptible to coersion, I put her into BJJ classes over dancing and she wrestles against me 2-5 times a week and also boxes with me.

is a lead learner at the school, head of the choir and part of the S.R.C she has had a hard time with bullying for two years because she is in two different friend groups, and the infighting and back biting between the girls has my daughter in a position og being played off against the other grouos, but as a key side effect she has become a skilled negotiator between the groups allowing her a great deal of useable real worl experience based on bullying.

Does it mean bullying is the answer? NO FUCKING WAY

Does it point towards their being some utility in allowing a slightly freer range to our childrens behaviours, including some of the least desireable? I think I make a strong case.

If you have the time and inclination feel free to rebut, throw stones, call me a wackjob etc etc.

 

[todski28]

I agree that taseless cruelty should not be legally actionable as a hate crime. That does not make the farthead a hero. It makes him a dick who needs therapy.

Why wpuld he need therapy?

 

[Senna Jawa]

Alan Turing

Why would he need therapy?

The q. was about a "joker" who was sentenced just recently, a day or two ago. This reminds me of the British WWII hero whom--after WWII--Britain has murdered anyway.

After WWII, Turing naively admitted to being gay. Homosexuality in Britain was still illegal at the time. Turing got sentenced and had a choice to go to prison or to undergo the so-called medical treatment. He decided on the second one which amounted to a torture. He couldn't take it and finally committed a suicide.

***

During the 1960s, it was routine for the Soviet legal system to commit political dissidents to forced psychiatric treatment, where they would get forced to receive painful so-called medicines. E.g. mathematician Esenin-Volpin, the son of the famous Russian poet, was treated like this.

 

[todski28]

The q. was about a "joker" who was sentenced just recently, a day or two ago. This reminds me of the British WWII hero whom--after WWII--Britain has murdered anyway.

After WWII, Turing naively admitted to being gay. Homosexuality in Britain was still illegal at the time. Turing got sentenced and had a choice to go to prison or to undergo the so-called medical treatment. He decided on the second one which amounted to a torture. He couldn't take it and finally committed a suicide.

***

During the 1960s, it was routine for the Soviet legal system to commit political dissidents to forced psychiatric treatment, where they would get forced to receive painful so-called medicines. E.g. mathematician Esenin-Volpin, the son of the famous Russian poet, was treated like this.

Neither of those things surprise me, it makes me sad for where we are at I thought the 20th century would have been enough mass scale deaths and destruction for us to realise that totalitairianism of fascism and communism are literally dead ends for humanity and they follow similar lines of controlling speech.

 

[Senna Jawa]

wh, "returns", a translation from Polish:

--

stars on a borrowed time
lived in the dew drops
on a warm spring night in a garden
a cold flower was pushing me away
I went toward the sunrise
down the alley of roses and oranges
under my eyelids just once
blinked the forgotten stars
​

wh,
2017-12-02
author's tr. today​

 

[Senna Jawa]

wh, poetry vs. poelitics

--

poetry -- at a forest's edge;
poelitics -- under a streetlamp.​

wh,
2017-12-01
auth. tr. today

--

 

[Senna Jawa]

Happy Valentine's poem, 1982/1988

--

i would go and see you long-gone
with my eyelids closed
but i can't drive to you song-gone
with my eyelids closed

i would turn forget you dog-gone
if i only could
but with eyelids closed for so long
i can't help but see ...
​

wh,
1982-1988
​