Loving Wives is the only place hotwife stories are abused

[pink_silk_glove]

This is an argument that I'm getting tired of seeing.

The category has always been named Loving Wives, whether the readers find that appropriate or not, it has been this from day one, and if readers still think they're going to find romantic stories of loyal wives who abide by the 1950's hand book, they should really know better by now...If you touch a hot stove repeatedly, who's fault is it after the first burn?

Perhaps you misunderstand me. Allow me to clarify. I do not believe that the name of the category 'Loving Wives' started or otherwise caused our unique phenomenon, but I do believe that it invited and even nurtured it. You say yourself in the opening post (and indeed the thread title) that Loving Wives is the only place on the entire internet with hateful political bile spewed towards wife sharing and cuckoldry. I will also point out that Literotica is the only place on the entire internet which uses this phrase 'Loving Wives' in this context. Coincidence?

Now you may not agree with that, but I think you can accept it as a fair and valid argument.

Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more

None of that says monogamy.

True, but then that is the same for any of the other places on the internet that you name, and rightly claim do not have the uhh ... 'problem' that we have here.

But what that crowd wants is to try and dictate to the site what should and shouldn't be allowed in the category, and last I looked only two people own this site, and its none of them. This site is not adding a Hot wife category, and they aren't changing the name. I wish they would so I could point out the same assholes would be trolling there every day with a different excuse.

Yes they migrate out to follow authors to other categories, but that's only because the factions (yes factions, it's not just the BtBs) have been so nurtured for 20 years in the first place. If that hadn't have happened, there would be no (significant) factions to migrate out.

Proof its not the category name, is these idiots are everywhere. I've got a slew of comments on a Halloween story squealing that the prophecy dictated the brother to be a virgin, but the sister(older) didn't have to be so she would know how to seduce him when the time came. The kid had it bad for his sister, gets her, and in the end has a threesome with her and his mother and these jackals are stuck on the idea that its some kind of 'feminism" that it wasn't the sister that's the virgin.

Again, that could simply be category migration from what has been uniquely nurtured here in LW.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The change this site should make is banning BTB stories(well within their rights as they are glorified violence and not erotic in anyway) and nuking the trolls repeatedly until they give up. This is a platform, and LW a category. Both are only as good or bad as the people who use it, and a large percentage of LW users are slugs that think they dictate what FICTIONAL women are allowed to do. And also demonize the FICTIONAL husbands for allowing it and the other lovers for banging another man's FICTIONAL wife. They then attack the author for writing it, and other readers who comment favorably. Their goal is to drive people off to make it 'theirs' and sad to say they have had some success as more people are putting stories in fetish...and its a matter of time before they invade over there in force.

Okay, this one just requires a separate reply because it's getting off topic but I just have to point out the irony.

We should not allow BtB stories because the BtB crowd (if it had its way) would not allow cucks and wife sharing?

Let me get this straight. The BtB crowd is bad/evil because they bully and attack anything extramarital that is not BtB and 'drive people away' as you put it. So, we should just 'drive away' the BtB crowd by banning them?

You are saying one of two things here (unless you have made an error in your explanation and need to clarify).

1 - A BtB story is not something valid for publication while a cuckold or hotwife or straight up assertive woman cheating is. It's totally okay for the man to lose but never okay for the woman to lose? Sounds rather fairly tale to me. It's also dictating what can and can't be written, just as you claim that the BtB crowd aims to dictate what can and can't be written.

2 - People are free to post anything that they want so long as lovecraft68 agrees with it. Which is the exact argument that the BtB crowd makes here everyday that you despise and call out constantly. You say yourself that the BtBs bully and chase away things that they don't agree with. You want to replace 'BtBs way or the highway' with 'lc68s way or the highway'.

 

[Devinter]

I don't know what you mean by this, exactly? I would assume more or less every pornographic site - free or paid for - have content that caters to specific niches, of which the vast majority of the visitors to said site still strongly disapproves? I mean, most people that visit a pornographic site aren't going to go on there and search for one of the most extreme of tags - merely looking for something quite basic-but-satisfactory. Therefore, there is a lot of content on these sites that many people would have negative reactions to, whether it is cuckold stuff, watersports, violent sex, or whatever it may be.

My assumption is that the same can be said about Lit. But here, it's not quite as clear what you're getting yourself into at the beginning of reading a story - compared to visual pornography - unless the author is very good at tagging their stories correctly and includes a plethora of warnings in the foreword / opening of their creation. So, if you're a reader and you're suddenly hit with something you dislike, you're going to have a more negative reaction, because you've invested time into reading the story and then all of a sudden you're made to feel uncomfortable, getting something you're not at all into.

If you expect one thing, and then get another, I don't find it strange that the author would receive a negative reaction. In fact, I would go as far as to say that it is warranted. That doesn't mean that the reader should lash out and act childish over it, of course - but some people are highly emotional and immature.

I'm going to expand on my earlier point because I find this whole "Literotica is the only place on the internet that is hostile towards X" is rather silly. On other pornographic sites or paid erotic sites, people are obviously not going to search or pay for something that they aren't into! But here on Lit, they are into EITHER these "Burn the Bitch/Bastard" type stories, the Cuckold/Cuckquean stories, or the Swinger/Sharing stories, and they're all grouped together. So if you don't make it abundantly clear whichever you're serving your audience BEFORE they start reading, you're messing up.

Now, I don't have a dog in this fight because I am not into any of these kinks, have never written a Loving Wives story, and have never even read one - but to ban something from the website just because a group of people are against it, when there's clearly a fetish market for it, and more violent things are allowed on the site - that seems rather extreme to me. I do think that splitting the category into two or three camps would be wise however, but it's probably too much work on the admin side of things.

And for those of you who seem genuinely confused why some people are extremely put off by these type of stories not going the way they thought; compare it to a sadist/masochist situation, just that BtB/cuck is emotional instead of physical. If everyone's in on it, and having a great time - excellent! One partner gets off on the emotional sadism, the other on the emotional masochism. But the moment a sadist starts hurting someone that isn't into it at all - physically or emotionally - it's just plain messed up. It has nothing to do with gender or "incels" - it doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman that is getting burned or cucked. If one person is just plain suffering, and not into it all, you're basically getting off to torturing someone that is an unwilling participant in every sense of the word.. That would never fly in the BDSM category and it shouldn't in Loving Wives either. You clearly deserve the downvotes if you spring that on a reader without proper warning from the on-set.

 

[Gamblnluck]

But here on Lit, they are into EITHER these "Burn the Bitch/Bastard" type stories, the Cuckold/Cuckquean stories, or the Swinger/Sharing stories, and they're all grouped together. So if you don't make it abundantly clear whichever you're serving your audience BEFORE they start reading, you're messing up.

Now, I don't have a dog in this fight because I am not into any of these kinks, have never written a Loving Wives story, and have never even read one -

That is the problem with most of those who complain about the LW BTB stories. They seem to think they are only violent retribution for a wife having an affair. Or they do not read enough of the stories to compare their 'superbly written story of loving kink' that got trashed by the scoring and comments. Simple violence does not using get a decent rating either.
If you read some of the most popular BTB stories, the wife is burned metaphorically.
They usually start with the male main character blind-sided by his supposedly loving wife. She is cheating.
Being simplistic here: Often she is a malevolent bitch who tells the husband she is going to continue and if he does not like it she will divorce him and take half or better of everything he owns, and get him to support her and the family. In those stories where the husband says what about me? Does that go for me? Her answer is 'of course not, if you step out I will divorce you and the end result is the same.' Hence the angst of the man being put into an intolerable situation. How he responds is the story.
Of course there are many variations on the theme. They are not all formulaic. Twist and turns make one story a better read than another. But the main desired end result is JUSTICE.

The reason 'cuck' stories are panned is many are not about a couple both into swinging where both having sex outside the marriage and for some unfathomable are happily raising their kids, risking std's and unwanted pregnancy. Often the stories have the husband get a an erection finding his wife cheating and for some reason drops to his knees to suck the wife's lover as they berate him. Many readers can not identify with that kind of response, hence they pan the story.

 

[madelinemasoch]

The reason 'cuck' stories are panned is many are not about a couple both into swinging where both having sex outside the marriage and for some unfathomable are happily raising their kids, risking std's and unwanted pregnancy. Often the stories have the husband get a an erection finding his wife cheating and for some reason drops to his knees to suck the wife's lover as they berate him. Many readers can not identify with that kind of response, hence they pan the story.

When my cuck story (where they already know what they're doing, they've been doing it for six years, there's no secrecy and there's no hatred or desire for "jUsTiCE") drops that doesn't leave room for a "for some reason" from you, and it still gets "panned" (translation: given an unjust rating and fucked with in the comments), I'll be here.

 

[Gamblnluck]

BDSM does not have the same issue. Some say you have to have the 'loving sadist' who spanks or canes and the recipient gets off. "Beat me, beat me, make me feel cheap. That is so hot." The person is used, beaten etc until the sub decides to end the 'play'.
In many the person starts out and finds himself getting in over his/her head. Of course this is one reason for having the nonconsent category where the situation is forced. Better plots of both answer why the victim is in the situation he is. Does he have an out or must he endure it for a period of time? Whatever floats your boat.
Ratings tend to be higher. The readers not nearly as discriminating.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

The reason 'cuck' stories are panned is many are not about a couple both into swinging where both having sex outside the marriage and for some unfathomable are happily raising their kids, risking std's and unwanted pregnancy. Often the stories have the husband get a an erection finding his wife cheating and for some reason drops to his knees to suck the wife's lover as they berate him. Many readers can not identify with that kind of response, hence they pan the story.

Nah. There are MANY cuck stories being posted that are all consensual. Where it is VERY clear the cuckold has truly enjoyed it all for years instead of being an unwilling participant who's somehow being blackmailed or coerced into accepting it. They all get slammed. It's the reason why some of the LW authors, like NTH, now speak about the LW readers having some kind of monogamy fetish.

Though, I will admit that a good portion of the hate quite possibly also stems from the unrealistic scenarios and the fact that, outside this little bubble of kink positivity and porn, cuckoldry is not that common of a kink in real life.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Nah. There are MANY cuck stories being posted that are all consensual. Where it is VERY clear the cuckold has truly enjoyed it all for years instead of being an unwilling participant who's somehow being blackmailed or coerced into accepting it. They all get slammed.

I said one type gets panned. I compared the two or three types. Like I said, it is because many readers cannot identify with the character. Yeah you could call it a monogamy fetish.
I'd bet a reader in LW that slams a story that has willing cuckolds in LW might read and enjoy it if it was in Fetish. or if you ramped up the kink/abuse factor, in BDSM.

 

[Gamblnluck]

doesn't leave room for a "for some reason" from you,

I'm generalizing why some stories do not do well, There is no real reason for the guy blindsided to drop to his knees just because his wife suddenly orders it. Often that detail is skipped over. Now for people in the kink for years, it might be an normal action. And in fetish or bdsm, that would be a good (well-received) story. But for the guy caught blind-sided by his wife but who had 'fantasies' suddenly capitulates and 'drops', it seems out of place.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'd bet a reader in LW that slams a story that has willing cuckolds in LW might read and enjoy it if it was in Fetish. or if you ramped up the kink/abuse factor, in BDSM.

But they don't. Or if they do, they haven't told me. I put a cuck series in BDSM and the hate comments rolled in from the first chapter onward. Only difference is I actually got some positive ones I might not have gotten if I used LW (wouldn't make sense because none of the couples are married yet).

And it isn't just misunderstandings, it's people who are angry the girls are too heavy and the men are too black and stupid shit like that, as well.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I'm generalizing why some stories do not do well, There is no real reason for the guy blindsided to drop to his knees just because his wife suddenly orders it. Often that detail is skipped over. Now for people in the kink for years, it might be an normal action. And in fetish or bdsm, that would be a good (well-received) story. But for the guy caught blind-sided by his wife but who had 'fantasies' suddenly capitulates and 'drops', it seems out of place.

Yeah, I understand that. My point is my hatereaders in particular aren't gonna notice either way.

 

[Gamblnluck]

But they don't. Or if they do, they haven't told me. I put a cuck series in BDSM and the hate comments rolled in from the first chapter onward

Which series? Was that the gauntlet or cuck camp? I've had some of those same hate comments. Some will not like it. Depends on delivery and how the story hits certain sensibilities. I'll send you a PM and if you'd like we can discuss it and I'll give you some ideas of story lines you might like to explore.

 

[Devinter]

I do understand that the divide in this category is a big issue for writers, but clearly there's still a way to do it. @NoTalentHack is crushing it, and from my understanding, it's not because he figured out a type of story that works for every 'faction' and just copy-paste it over and over again, right? But I took a look at some of his stories and they're all tagged wisely. I saw "BtB" tags and whatnot. So people know to avoid that particular story if they dislike that sort of thing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I'm writing a loving wives story that'll be here (in LW) after it's run its course on the usual sites. It isn't a burn the bitch or reconciliation story, and it ends on a sad note for both the husband and his wife. I'll not say more than that. It's from something that was told to me by a new friend. When she found out I was a writer, she asked if I'd like to write her story. Reluctantly I agreed.

 

[Gamblnluck]

And it isn't just misunderstandings, it's people who are angry the girls are too heavy and the men are too black and stupid shit like that, as well.

Which makes the comment doubly stupid if you consider why does it matter what the woman who is kicking the poor sub in the balls or demeaning him looks like. I can see the black man issue though if you are overdoing the stereotypes of black macho athletic men with big cocks with whites being tiny dicked submissive wimps. Send that stuff to interracial where it belongs.

I avoid race pretty much in my stories. I also tend to avoid describing the characters physically unless appropriate for the story. Who cares if the guy is 5' 9"? He could have an 8 inch cock and it would be too small or at least inadequate if he puts it under the control of the dominant bitch. Once he turns his ass over to her like in your stories, his physical stature is irrelevant.

I got 4 out of 6 comments (a paltry number overall) condemning my MC for submitting in my story "First Meeting" and that was in BDSM which really surprised me. It was a simple story about a man meeting an online domme for the first time in person. He falls down the rabbit hole.

 

[Wifetheif]

Got this one today -- they hate the men (and by extention the writers) of these things as well -- I only skimmed through this three part steaming pile of crap, And the writer's intent only reinforces what scientists have been saying for the last dozen years that worldwide testosterone levels are dropping. Only a low t wimpy ball lbut beta boy would write a three part piece of shit like this. No real man living in the real world, who has even a modicum of love and respect for himself would accept this very expensive whore back. Divorce after receiving payment would have been the action of the day, And making all the information available to all of her family, friends and professional working contacts to totally humiliate and destroy this dumb ass bitch.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Which series? Was that the gauntlet or cuck camp? I've had some of those same hate comments. Some will not like it. Depends on delivery and how the story hits certain sensibilities. I'll send you a PM and if you'd like we can discuss it and I'll give you some ideas of story lines you might like to explore.

Cuckold Camp.

You know I already have ideas of my own, but go ahead.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Which makes the comment doubly stupid if you consider why does it matter what the woman who is kicking the poor sub in the balls or demeaning him looks like. I can see the black man issue though if you are overdoing the stereotypes of black macho athletic men with big cocks with whites being tiny dicked submissive wimps. Send that stuff to interracial where it belongs.

...okaaaay? But no, I think I'll throw 'em where I wish to.

I avoid race pretty much in my stories. I also tend to avoid describing the characters physically unless appropriate for the story. Who cares if the guy is 5' 9"? He could have an 8 inch cock and it would be too small or at least inadequate if he puts it under the control of the dominant bitch. Once he turns his ass over to her like in your stories, his physical stature is irrelevant.

In the case of my stories, nearly everything you just said is flat out incorrect... I might write an essay about this and post it somewhere, but the "attractiveness differential" if you will is a key part of what makes them erotic. Plus, I have general misgivings to put it lightly about avoiding physical descriptions of characters or otherwise. It makes the stories forgettable when you don't describe characters. I'm sure you have a counter example, but additionally, my style is very visual.

I got 4 out of 6 comments (a paltry number overall) condemning my MC for submitting in my story "First Meeting" and that was in BDSM which really surprised me. It was a simple story about a man meeting an online domme for the first time in person. He falls down the rabbit hole.

Weird! Sounds like a fine premise to me.

 

[bobsyouruncle55]

I know the majority of authors in the AH continue to describe the LW readers as a bunch on women-hating incels.

But in my experience, the majority there (based on the comments) seem to be of a mind that marriage means "monogamy-only", and any extra-marital sex should end in divorce. These are the ones who jump on stories within the first few days of posting to 1-bomb, then their 1s are scraped off later.

I wrote my incel-poking story "A Gathering of Trolls" to test that incel theory, and it rated now an average at 3.01. If the majority of those LW readers were incel trolls, it should have scored much lower.

The extra-marital fun/wife-sharing stories do slightly better, but in my case remain below 4.

The stories which seem to rate above 4 end in divorce or some type of retribution against the cheater. Even your own (LC68) first attempt at LW rated over 4.5 due to the wife's revenge against her cheating husband. The comments bear out that the emotional readers considered the wife's extra-marital sex revenge as equally repulsive. But your story still rated over 4.5. In my similar story recently (in July) where the husband discovers his wife's rule-breaking and merely did the same, it rated at 3.31 after the 1-scraping. So, in my readings of LW trends, they're not incels or women-haters, but more likely extremists with the attitude that marriage means monogamy ... or else divorce.

As long as authors here continue to inject their own biases when trying to convince others they are facts, other authors will continue to miss the mark of what the category reader values most.

EDIT: I would prefer to spread the idea that more stories posted to LW with subtle changes to show separating the marriage "love" from "sex with others" has a place in the world.

.
This trolls are OK with Anal,BDSM,any kind of Fetish,
Gay's,Exhibitionist & Voyeur,Group Sex,Incest/Taboo,Lesbian Sex,Loving Wives just as long as they get
to hear all about it and their all time fav Interracial .but don't what ever you do mention
a woman. having sex without his knowledge.this is a sure fire way of getting them real mad.