Loving Wives

[Zeb_Carter]

Thanks for bumping this thread; it predates my LIT membership and I'm glad to see it now.

I have written exactly two LW stories. One is told from the POV of a woman who's cheated all her life, and gets away with it -- that story's vote is just above 2.0. The other has the cheaters obliterated by a flash flood -- that one won a Red H. My conclusion: LW readers like punishment.

Alert eyes may note that most of my early series were Group Sex and most of my recent tales are Incest-Taboo. I am not an Incest fetishist, and I don't read that many Group Sex stories any more. The cat that draws me is, and long has been, Loving Wives. The best stories there are just more dramatic than tales in other cats. I'm trying to work out how to write stories with enough drama to do well there without indulging in egregious and nauseating BTB cliches.

Much of LIT's best storytelling is in LW. The trolls drive the dynamics. Curious...

EDIT: This is my post #3000. Huzzah.

Now, for the past year or so, Loving Wives fans are largely made up of those who have had there lives turned upside down by their loving wife. So they like those stories where the wife gets hers in the end and not a nice end.

Prior to now, loving wives was about those wives who, for one reason or another loved other men. Sometimes with the husbands knowledge and encouragement, sometimes not. The group that like this sort of story was, back then, in the majority.

I have written in LW a lot. A series of stories from the wive just plain cheating, to the wife joining the husband at a swinger club, to the wife becoming the neighborhood slut, to a wive prostituting herself for her husband to a husband killing his wife and her lovers.

Over time all eventually received a red H. But that was back then.

Now, I have 25 of 41 eBooks which involve loving wives. None of those involves the kick to the curb type stories. Can I say they are big sellers? Not really. They do sell some, but not a big as the Incest eBooks.

 

[Over_Red]

Alright, so, people are hypocrites. That includes otherwise smart, intelligent, and successful people that should know better. What else is new?

Marriage is a contract of love and long-term commitment. Cheating promises lots of wonderful dopamine and serotonin releases in the short term. People frequently compromise their morals and commitments in exchange for short term gain. They do it all the time. Marriage, unsurprisingly, does not have some special exemption from this very human rule.

As for the comments that state your story feels "unfinished", that's very easy to explain. You've got a boring premise: "A person decides to do something bad. They do it. And then, nothing happens."

Let me give you some perspective by changing the context. Say you wrote a story about a serial murderer.

The villain (or protagonist, depending on your point of view) goes around, kills a few people. The police aren't able to find anything that can point them to the killer, and the case goes cold.

The end.

See the problem? There's no conflict, aside from individual struggles when the murderer goes out to do the deed. Therefore, there's no real story. It's just "this happened, and then this, and then this." What about consequences, repercussions? What's interesting about this sequence of events that makes it worth the time spent reading? If I wanted to hear about current events, I'd go read a newspaper.

 

[gordo12]

Marriage is a contract of love and long-term commitment.

Umm I would describe it more as a life sentence without parole.

 

[jezzaz]

I've been thinking a lot about the LW category, and what's in it.

It seems to me the breakdown is this

a) Wife who is encouraged to go external and get some - the husband gets off it and the relationship prospers, but the husband is never threatened by the behavior. He may or may not be in a chastised relationship - ie willing cuckold who has his wife as the driver or dominant. Or he may be an equal partner in the endeavor.

b) Wife who is sneaking around on her husband, for whatever reason. She is never discovered or brought to account for her behavior - the story is more about the sex than it is about the circumstances, beyond "I met this guy, he was hot, we had hot sex".

c) Wife who is sneaking around, and gets caught and then it's either BTB or reconcilliation.

d) Stories that are elements of the above, but either go on for ever (Thinking of XLegLovers stuff, or When We Were Married etc) or just don't really fit. My Ingrams stuff, for example, has elements of everything and isn't really One Thing.

Now, within those genre's, there does seem to be a differentiation of Stories vs what I call "events". I'd say that about 75% of the stories aren't actually stories per-se. They are a sequence of events where the story is really only there to serve as a backdrop to some hot sex. They are the equivalent of a porn scene, where the story is desultory and only provides background for the sex part.
That's not a judgement - this is LitErotica after all, and so I don't have any issue with this. Stroke stories are not inherently bad.

Me, personally, I prefer a story. Where there are events, people doing things, making the story happen. For that reason, I kinda like the C type, because in those situations, there *is* a story there, not just a set of scenes. In the best of them, there is character development, there is plot, events happen, people react to them, they change, they do other things because of that.

But having said that, I like any story that has an actual story to it. There are some great romance and mature and non-erotic stories too that have an actual story and I'm a big fan of those too. But when it comes to Loving Wives, most of the actual stories are in situations where the man discovers his partners cheating and has to come to terms with it. As a case in point, I love the Matt Moreau stuff as much as the StangStar06 stuff - where StangStars stuff is about poetic justice and Matt's stuff is more about the wounded psyche, and acceptance of that.

But there's also a bunch of BTB stories that are basically just misogyny masquerading as revenge stories. There IS a large streak of people reading these stories who just want to see the bitch suffer - that streak being there to a great or lesser degree. I desperately hope I'm not one of them - I do like these stories - and there's an element of that in the stuff I write - and it worries me, because I don't know if I have this streak too, or if it is as I hope - because there is an actual story there, and characters.

The thing is though, from where I sit, Loving Wives is what it is. What it says about the great unwashed in terms of what they want to read about I don't know. I have theories, but that's all they are - theories. No one can know for sure.

In terms of what you write for the genre, well, it depends on who you are writing for.

If you are writing for the audience, then you need to write some BTB or Cuck stories. Those tend to get a lot of up votes. Have some characters, do something unique and you'll get votes.

If you write for yourself, who cares what the readers think?

Personally, for the most part, I write actual stories, that have a plot, that have sex as a central theme, because that's what I like to read.

YMMWV.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Alright, so, people are hypocrites. That includes otherwise smart, intelligent, and successful people that should know better. What else is new?

Marriage is a contract of love and long-term commitment. Cheating promises lots of wonderful dopamine and serotonin releases in the short term. People frequently compromise their morals and commitments in exchange for short term gain. They do it all the time. Marriage, unsurprisingly, does not have some special exemption from this very human rule.

As for the comments that state your story feels "unfinished", that's very easy to explain. You've got a boring premise: "A person decides to do something bad. They do it. And then, nothing happens."

Let me give you some perspective by changing the context. Say you wrote a story about a serial murderer.

The villain (or protagonist, depending on your point of view) goes around, kills a few people. The police aren't able to find anything that can point them to the killer, and the case goes cold.

The end.

See the problem? There's no conflict, aside from individual struggles when the murderer goes out to do the deed. Therefore, there's no real story. It's just "this happened, and then this, and then this." What about consequences, repercussions? What's interesting about this sequence of events that makes it worth the time spent reading? If I wanted to hear about current events, I'd go read a newspaper.

And we have now heard from the moral minority.

Who are you to decided what is moral for me or anyone?

Are you some supreme being?

If your moral code is unbreakable, fine, but shut the fuck up about what you think my moral code should be. It's my moral code. You keep your fat ass out of my moral code and I'll keep my thoughts on yours to myself.

If you don't like LW stories, why read them? You know you do. I know you do.

So take your moral righteousness somewhere else than a porn board...Hypocrite!

 

[jezzaz]

And we have now heard from the moral minority.

Who are you to decided what is moral for me or anyone?

Are you some supreme being?

If your moral code is unbreakable, fine, but shut the fuck up about what you think my moral code should be. It's my moral code. You keep your fat ass out of my moral code and I'll keep my thoughts on yours to myself.

If you don't like LW stories, why read them? You know you do. I know you do.

So take your moral righteousness somewhere else than a porn board...Hypocrite!

Ah.

You are confusing morals with ethics.

Morals are a group concensus on appropriate and inappropriate actions. It's immoral to murder someone - we, as a society, agree on that.

Ethics are personal. It's not necessarily any more immoral (or illegal) to speed in a car with a minor aboard as it is to speed without a minor in the car - but your personal ethics might say "I won't do that"

Ethics are personal - but often informed by moral situations. Usually they go beyond common morals into very specific situations. "I once blabbed a secret to someone, and it caused a lot of grief, so I don't do that any more". That's personal ethics.

In terms of morals, yeah, we do actually have some commonality. It's what's society is based on - common rules that we may or may not adhere to. A monogamous relationship is what society dictates we are supposed to have. That doesn't mean we _have_ to, it just means that the default stance is that others will expect you to be monogamous.

Now I totally buy into the fact that a relationship should really be whatever the two (or more) people that are in it decide it should be, providing everyone is above board and knows the rules and agrees. You want an open marriage, you go for it.

But, in the absence of some one sitting down and saying "This is what our relationship is - lets agree to the rules that deviate from the societal norm", it's not unreasonable to expect that other people will adhere to the same rules that society has had for generations.

That's not to say those rules are the best rules, or the ones that everyone _should_ adhere to - just that the assumption of those rules isn't something to get up in arms about either.


I think that's why so many people read the betrayed husband stuff and it chimes a cord. Betrayal stories are fairly black and white - both sides have expectations of fidelity from the other (we do have vows in our marriage ceremony for a reason) and when that's broken, that sucks and it hurts. The other person has said one thing and done another.

Lots of people like to see justice done in that situation. It's just weird that it skews towards wives being the punished.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Ah.

You are confusing morals with ethics.

Morals are a group concensus on appropriate and inappropriate actions. It's immoral to murder someone - we, as a society, agree on that.

Murder isn't unethical. The Supreme Court said so. The state can murder whoever they want. I have no ethics against killing someone who deserves it. I may be the one who decides whether they need to be killed or not.

Ethics are personal. It's not necessarily any more immoral (or illegal) to speed in a car with a minor aboard as it is to speed without a minor in the car - but your personal ethics might say "I won't do that"

Ethics are personal - but often informed by moral situations. Usually they go beyond common morals into very specific situations. "I once blabbed a secret to someone, and it caused a lot of grief, so I don't do that any more". That's personal ethics.

In terms of morals, yeah, we do actually have some commonality. It's what's society is based on - common rules that we may or may not adhere to. A monogamous relationship is what society dictates we are supposed to have. That doesn't mean we _have_ to, it just means that the default stance is that others will expect you to be monogamous.

Again, ethics and morals are personal. I decide what is ethical and moral. Right or wrong I decide. Not you or any body or government. I may agree with certain laws, then again I may not. That is up to me as an individual. And as that individual I will take responsibility for what I think is moral or ethical.

Now I totally buy into the fact that a relationship should really be whatever the two (or more) people that are in it decide it should be, providing everyone is above board and knows the rules and agrees. You want an open marriage, you go for it.

But, in the absence of some one sitting down and saying "This is what our relationship is - lets agree to the rules that deviate from the societal norm", it's not unreasonable to expect that other people will adhere to the same rules that society has had for generations.

That's not to say those rules are the best rules, or the ones that everyone _should_ adhere to - just that the assumption of those rules isn't something to get up in arms about either.

Now that I agree with. And personally, I have only written one LW story where there wasn't an agreement in place between a couple. Whether it was agreed upon at the moment things were taking place or at sometime in the past.

I think that's why so many people read the betrayed husband stuff and it chimes a cord. Betrayal stories are fairly black and white - both sides have expectations of fidelity from the other (we do have vows in our marriage ceremony for a reason) and when that's broken, that sucks and it hurts. The other person has said one thing and done another.

Lots of people like to see justice done in that situation. It's just weird that it skews towards wives being the punished.

But the point should be made...in most cases, even if the author says it's true...this is fiction. What I don't understand is guys like over_red coming to a porn site, reading fiction, then preaching to everyone how immortal they are for even thinking about what was in the story.

My question is:

Why are they in here in the first place?

And why do they read something they say they don't think is right?

To me, that's a violation of their morality and ethics. So I say fuck 'em. Kick them in the balls and walk away.

 

[sr71plt]

Marriage is a contract of love and long-term commitment.

I'll have to note that you go off the rails for me too, starting here. Marriage is a contract, yes. There's no ipso facto requirement that it involve love, be long term, or even have much of a commitment. You've falsely "presumed" that into what is a legal contract that has no guarantee of being/requirement to be anything beyond that.

 

[gordo12]

incidentally for all you cuckolding fans, the chances of divorce among those who voluntarily share their spouses are several times higher.

I am very sorry to admit that I have not read all this thread and I wish to direct this post at one isolated comment

How could anyone know that? Who collects statistics on happily married couples who don't tell others about their kinks? How will we ever know how many perfectly secure relationships have involved casual sex at one point in the past and moved on with no more than a "been there, done that" attitude?

In fact I can confirm that some people have been there, and may indeed have done several years of sharing without buying the t-shirts or writing the book. And a few years further on the only lasting effects are some happy memories.

However if you were talking of a situation where one side was not fully aware of what was going on, then I have no frame of reference and you're all doomed.

I have to challenge that statement that swingers (wife sharing) divorce stats are many times higher. In fact the research that I've seen indicates a higher degree of marital satisfaction and a divorce rate around 1/10 the general population.

It may be that Gabaa's industry (divorce lawyer) has skewed his perception of reality but you can't throw out general divorce stats as being related to a specific subset that are governed by different emotions and behaviours. If a swinging couple gets divorced you'll see that. You won't see the other 9 couples that are happy with what they do.

 

[Over_Red]

And we have now heard from the moral minority.

Who are you to decided what is moral for me or anyone?

Are you some supreme being?

If your moral code is unbreakable, fine, but shut the fuck up about what you think my moral code should be. It's my moral code. You keep your fat ass out of my moral code and I'll keep my thoughts on yours to myself.

If you don't like LW stories, why read them? You know you do. I know you do.

So take your moral righteousness somewhere else than a porn board...Hypocrite!

There seems to be a serious misunderstanding here.

I was responding to TQM's original post, not your own. However, my post came right after yours, so I can understand if you thought I was addressing you directly. I was not.

TQM mentioned often receiving the same feedback, that the stories "feel unfinished"; I was trying to give TQM some insight based on some basic rules of good storytelling. Conflict is what makes a story, and if you rob something of conflict, it becomes very bland.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was judging you or your personal views, or anyone else's, for that matter. I was just making a statement about marriage in general to give what I had to say some context, and certainly didn't intend to tell anyone what to think.

But the point should be made...in most cases, even if the author says it's true...this is fiction. What I don't understand is guys like over_red coming to a porn site, reading fiction, then preaching to everyone how immortal they are for even thinking about what was in the story.

My question is:

Why are they in here in the first place?

And why do they read something they say they don't think is right?

To me, that's a violation of their morality and ethics. So I say fuck 'em. Kick them in the balls and walk away.

I went back and reread what I wrote several times, because I felt pretty bad when I read what you wrote. I imagined I must have insulted you directly somehow.

Maybe my post could come off as presumptive, but I just don't understand where you're getting the idea that I was telling you specifically that what you think is wrong and this is how you should think. I was just making a statement about people, and life. That wasn't a blanket judgement about alternative sexual lifestyles.

You mentioned the point that I'm reading these stories and then turning around and judging people for writing them. That couldn't be further from the truth. I was trying to explain to someone that writes them why your average person might make the comment that their stories feel unfinished.

Actually, Zeb, I don't read the Loving Wives category. Not into it. I write stories here, and I enjoy discussing the craft of writing. I come to the forum because I like reading what people, like you, have to say about lifestyles that are different from my own; it's interesting. That's what made me click on this thread. I'm not a superior moral being, and I think it makes me a better better person to try and understand that some people feel differently about things than I do.

Solid writing advice can be applied regardless of subject matter, so I decided to chime in. Sorry if I blindsided you, or made you feel like I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention, and if it came off that way, and I'm just not seeing it, then I owe you a very sincere apology.

I'll have to note that you go off the rails for me too, starting here. Marriage is a contract, yes. There's no ipso facto requirement that it involve love, be long term, or even have much of a commitment. You've falsely "presumed" that into what is a legal contract that has no guarantee of being/requirement to be anything beyond that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_vows#Roman_Catholic

A marriage is only as good as the people making it, but I think the vow itself is pretty clear - not to imply that it is truly binding, legally or otherwise.

People in general accept that the ideal marriage is a relatively permanent state of being. That's why someone might make the comment "hey, this feels unfinished, where's the karmic revenge part?". That's the point I was making.

In practice, a marriage between two committed people can be whatever they agree it can be. But there's certainly a traditional Christian marriage that most people immediately think of when the word "marriage" is used.

 

[sr71plt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_vows#Roman_Catholic

A marriage is only as good as the people making it, but I think the vow itself is pretty clear - not to imply that it is truly binding, legally or otherwise.

People in general accept that the ideal marriage is a relatively permanent state of being. That's why someone might make the comment "hey, this feels unfinished, where's the karmic revenge part?". That's the point I was making.

In practice, a marriage between two committed people can be whatever they agree it can be. But there's certainly a traditional Christian marriage that most people immediately think of when the word "marriage" is used.

Sorry, I think you still are being too presumptive--especially for Literotica.

You're a brave soul to base anything on Christian (especially Roman Catholic) dictate on this forum. But have at it, if you like.

 

[Hypoxia]

Re: Marriage is a contract. Yes, but... that contract may or may not be boilerplate. Basically, a relationship is whatever the participants agree on within the constraints of law. See my WHAT IS CHEATING? (linked in my .sig) for many possible options. Many of those options look like "open marriage" to those choosing more restrictive options, who may invoke 'morality' or 'ethics' to justify their closed preference.

Maybe someday, when I'm old(er) and gray(er) and have little time left, I'll write LW tales to explore alternative options. If time doesn't kill me, the comments will.

Let's see, one story will somewhat parallel RANDY RANDY (The Pornomancer) where a couple is wildly happy as long as they don't touch each other, only their respective circles of sex-slaves. In another, the couple are wildly happy fucking whomever each wants as long as they can kill the other's lover(s) afterwards. In another, the couple is playing chess; each piece capture entitles the capturing player to fuck at their fancy; the punishment for being checkmated is... ??

Hmmm, I haven't noticed -- are there many LW stories where BTB revenge goes terribly wrong? I've seen so many where the aggrieved spouse (usually hubby, sometimes colluding with another cheated spouse) plots and executes a superb plan that devastates the miscreants. How about if they fuck up? I'd probably better write that on as a satire. Maybe like a Roadrunner cartoon: RR is screwing Mrs Coyote. Cuckolded Wile E. Coyote is hot on revenge but is just as competent as usual with explosives, falling rocks, etc. In the human version, hubby slashes the wrong tires, leaks the wrong sex videos (his own), burns down the wrong house (also his own), etc. He is THE LUZER! But he keeps on trying and trying...

 

[Over_Red]

Sorry, I think you still are being too presumptive--especially for Literotica.

You're a brave soul to base anything on Christian (especially Roman Catholic) dictate on this forum. But have at it, if you like.

This forum is a kaleidoscope of lifestyles, but the forum is not Literotica's readership.

Let's take everyone that ever read a story from the Loving Wives category; we ask them what they think are the things that make up your typical marriage.

They'd give you the obvious - the tux and dress, the walk down the isle, wedding vows, occurs in some sort of religious building or is presided over by a vested authority, members of the families present, etc.

I imagine that a subset of those people would expect some sort of karmic retribution for violating the above ceremony and promises. When that doesn't occur, a few of them are going to make comments about it.

Is that really such an odd explanation? Why else would people write that stuff?

 

[sr71plt]

You can't stop pontificating on what others believe, can you?

Sorry, I reject your presumptions and your "knowledge" (as well as the pollsters') of what "everyone" or "most people" or even "some people" think/believe. So, you can just let it go.

 

[Over_Red]

Is there something wrong with defending a point I've made?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

There seems to be a serious misunderstanding here.

I was responding to TQM's original post, not your own. However, my post came right after yours, so I can understand if you thought I was addressing you directly. I was not.

TQM mentioned often receiving the same feedback, that the stories "feel unfinished"; I was trying to give TQM some insight based on some basic rules of good storytelling. Conflict is what makes a story, and if you rob something of conflict, it becomes very bland.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I was judging you or your personal views, or anyone else's, for that matter. I was just making a statement about marriage in general to give what I had to say some context, and certainly didn't intend to tell anyone what to think.



I went back and reread what I wrote several times, because I felt pretty bad when I read what you wrote. I imagined I must have insulted you directly somehow.

Maybe my post could come off as presumptive, but I just don't understand where you're getting the idea that I was telling you specifically that what you think is wrong and this is how you should think. I was just making a statement about people, and life. That wasn't a blanket judgement about alternative sexual lifestyles.

You mentioned the point that I'm reading these stories and then turning around and judging people for writing them. That couldn't be further from the truth. I was trying to explain to someone that writes them why your average person might make the comment that their stories feel unfinished.

Actually, Zeb, I don't read the Loving Wives category. Not into it. I write stories here, and I enjoy discussing the craft of writing. I come to the forum because I like reading what people, like you, have to say about lifestyles that are different from my own; it's interesting. That's what made me click on this thread. I'm not a superior moral being, and I think it makes me a better better person to try and understand that some people feel differently about things than I do.

Solid writing advice can be applied regardless of subject matter, so I decided to chime in. Sorry if I blindsided you, or made you feel like I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention, and if it came off that way, and I'm just not seeing it, then I owe you a very sincere apology.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_vows#Roman_Catholic

A marriage is only as good as the people making it, but I think the vow itself is pretty clear - not to imply that it is truly binding, legally or otherwise.

People in general accept that the ideal marriage is a relatively permanent state of being. That's why someone might make the comment "hey, this feels unfinished, where's the karmic revenge part?". That's the point I was making.

In practice, a marriage between two committed people can be whatever they agree it can be. But there's certainly a traditional Christian marriage that most people immediately think of when the word "marriage" is used.

Two things to clarify.

One: If you don't like or think loving wives stories are wrong, why to you read them? Your post sounded like all the other sanctimonious bullshit the trolls spew as comments on LW stories. ( okay you answered this I see) I have another question: Why post in a thread about LW? You obviously have strict feeling about LW, why post here?

Two: Even though I write LW stories, I don't see the correlation to my lifestyle as an author of LW stories.

Three: (so I lied - sue me) This is a site filled with fiction. Look the word up. It might calm your nerves and keep you from be so sanctimonious.

Four: I was raised Catholic. I no longer consider myself Catholic. We'll just say I didn't hold with their teachings.

Five: I didn't know who you were responding to, I didn't care who you were responding to.

Six: Have a nice day.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I write horror stories but am not a serial killer yet.

Stephen King suggested that you can be a plumber without bringing the crap home.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The Lit definition of LW is, "married, extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing and more".

The marriage contract, like all other legal contracts, can be voided. Until the twentieth century is was just a way to protect inheritance. There is no justification to bring religion as a factor in LW - unless for your own stories. For the majority, the so-called 'marriage vow' is no more than a posh ceremony and a great party.

Again, LW is populated with macho males. The same that watch the pornos, 'please fuck my wife'?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Lit definition of LW is, "married, extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing and more".

The marriage contract, like all other legal contracts, can be voided. Until the twentieth century is was just a way to protect inheritance. There is no justification to bring religion as a factor in LW - unless for your own stories. For the majority, the so-called 'marriage vow' is no more than a posh ceremony and a great party.

Again, LW is populated with macho males. The same that watch the pornos, 'please fuck my wife'?

Partial credit. Marriage protected the wife and children from bullshit claims by others. The wife got a guaranteed 1/3rd share of the estate, the kids shared the rest. Imposters got squat.

Youre such a retard.

 

[ceelaa]

There already is one. It's called Loving Wives

They should have an exclusive section devoted to Cuckholdry esp pertaining to Husbands becoming cuckholds of their wives. This is a growing group throughout the world in addition to the newly former cuckholdry section for sons who are cuckholds for their mothers. I wonder how many of the latter stories are there now in Literotica.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

They should have an exclusive section devoted to Cuckholdry esp pertaining to Husbands becoming cuckholds of their wives. This is a growing group throughout the world in addition to the newly former cuckholdry section for sons who are cuckholds for their mothers. I wonder how many of the latter stories are there now in Literotica.

Someone else who wants to change the definition of Lit's Loving Wives.

Loving Wives - Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more.

It been that since the beginning of time. If you want a different definition go start your own website.

 

[magallag]

TQM's original submission to this thread was very thought-provoking and the subsequent comments are most interesting. They highlight the very important distinction between fantasy-'It's only a story' and believability i.e. realism. Fantasies of cheating or spouse-sharing are common and, no doubt, enjoyable for many who haven't personally been damaged by them, However, making Loving Wives credible is very difficult if the author chooses to ignore the nasty realities of real-life cheating or spouse-sharing. And nasty they are-I have spent the last 15 years clearing up the wreckage of divorces or trying to minimise the damage by appropriate pre or post-nuptial contracts.

Firstly I (and my colleagues in the partnership) would strongly resist the notion that there is an increased tolerance for cheating. We have seen no sign of it and the published statistics don't support it. The parties to a solemn contract have a immutable right to expect that it will be honored-indeed this is a fundamental requirement of most societies. Consequently people expect cheaters to be punished and are unsatisfied if they 'get away with it'. Furthermore cheaters hurt others and, naturally, society doesn't like that either. It isn't really a question of whether they are 'wicked' but rather that they are behaving in a way which, if widespread, undermines the fabric of human relations. Consequently the natural desire for offenders to be punished is not decreasing, nor will it as long as humans interact with one another by entering voluntarily into contracts. In LW terms the bitch doesn't have to be beaten but she sure should suffer. Having seen a fair number of 'attractive, bright and usually successful' (TQM's words) husbands and wives destroy their marriages and their spouse's and children's lives I have to say that they are often more than usually self-centered, they put their own desires ahead of their families', they don't fully appreciate the likelihood that they will be found out and they have a quite absurd belief that 'it's OK if no-one else knows about it'. It's also incredible that these bright people never seem to have a contingency plan to handle the moment when suspicions start to be aroused. Incidentally in our experience cheaters are often found out because cheating is so much easier to justify to themselves the second and subsequent times so the opportunities for discovery rise rapidly. However many marriages stagger on, seriously wounded or permanently maimed and, therefore, with a lot of regrets, because the costs of divorce both emotionally and financially are so high. Conversely it is always grimly amusing to hear from those who have gone through a divorce that 'In retrospect it was a good thing'. In most of these cases the dispassionate observer, even a divorce lawyer, might seriously disagree. A very expensive mistake is still that.

There appears to be an early indication, in the US and Canada at least, that divorce rates are falling. If our experience is any guide (and I recognise that it may not be) the reasons for this are clear. Fewer people are choosing to get married and, inevitably, the ones whose personalities make them less willing to commit (and more likely to cheat) are avoiding marriage. However, the chances of a marriage failing are still 40% to 50 % in the US and cheating is still a significant cause. incidentally for all you cuckolding fans, the chances of divorce among those who voluntarily share their spouses are several times higher. This accords with common sense-the more your spouse samples others the greater their chance of finding someone they prefer over you. So don't run away with the idea that sharing your spouse shows maturity or security-it actually shows total lack of realism in the face of the facts, if you share them you have an overwhelming chance of losing them eventually.

So for us believability fans, if you are going to try to get us excited by a sexual encounter you should try to avoid suggesting that in the background there is an innocent family who could be badly hurt That isn't a sexy thought. Similarly, if you are trying to write a credible cuckolding story rather than a total fantasy, admittedly very difficult, you need to consider and address the reality that the chances of a marriage surviving much of that sort of thing are small. Otherwise, in both cases, the reader says, 'Too unrealistic to be credible'. It's no coincidence, I feel, that many of the most highly regarded Literotica writers deliver on these requirements.

Well...that certainly was a killjoy!

The thing is...

You speak from the perspective of a family/divorce attorney in statistical generalizations.

There truly are many of us out here who have beaten the odds, my wife and I being one example. It simply requires greater open-mindedness. We're not all swans, counselor! Not everyone is hard-wired for monogamy, and I think you miss that point.

 

[Hypoxia]

...You speak from the perspective of a family/divorce attorney in statistical generalizations. There truly are many of us out here who have beaten the odds, my wife and I being one example...

To "beat the odds" is a fluke. The odds are what they are because of (statistically) large numbers of experiences. A few cases are outliers; most are immersed in the statistical mainstream. Very few beat the odds.

My mom cheated. She destroyed the marriage and did a severe number on the family. The folks divorced when I was 15. I strongly feel the lives of my younger sisters and myself have been badly affected by that rupture, that instability. I may write less-than-serious stories about cheating, and exploratory essays like What Is Cheating? but the reality is always there in my mind. Mom's selfishness fucked us up. Fact.

 

[robertreams]

I think the label was intended as a double entendre, ya think?

 

[laptopwriter]

I didn't read all of the posts so if I double down on anyone's post, I'm sorry, but..

Marriage is NOT a contract. The marriage license is a contract. Marriage is a commitment. Whether it results in sharing a wife, swinging, or monogamy I think depends on how deeply you're committed relationship is.

Personally I believe if you're going to commit, you should go all in. Of course you assume your partner is willing to do the same. If he or she strays it hurts because you realize they didn't feel the same way you did, even though they told you they did. It is a betrayal of the heart.

For others who confess their love for another but will not make a commitment of monogamy, more power to them but I can't help but feel there will always be something missing in their relationship.

Obviously this is only my opinion.

As for why writers submit stories to the LW category...I think it's a stupid question. Authors write about what interests them; no more, no less.