Loving Wives

[GoldenCojones]

Wow

I have two LW stories on here and have received a great deal of feedback, both positive and negative. My stories don't fit the three categories defined early in this thread however. I write about hyper-sexual women who are married but not dead. I am intensely turned on by sexual women. I have a firm grasp on the concept that "Love" and "Sex" are separate but not mutually exclusive things.

I don't get the hangup on "Cheating." If my wife enjoys tennis would I get jealous of her playing tennis with a friend? No, I wouldn't and I don't think most other men would, but if my wife enjoys sex and has sex with a friend, I'm supposed to get jealous or angry or both. It don't make no sense to me.

So I stir up the trolls, laugh at their idiocy, and live my life happily.

Hey it's all just my opinion.

 

[Cuckoldjim]

Infidelity is controversial for a reason

Given the fact that the vast majority of loving wives stories are about wives who engage in extramarital sex, I was amazed at how aggressively I have been flames by the BTB crowd. Comments posted here remind me that many people have been affected by female infidelity, either as a cuckolded husband or as the children of divorce. This insight makes the aggressiveness of the BTB crowd more understandable.

Just for the record, I agree that infidelity is immoral because it can lead to the destruction of families with profound implications for the people involved, especially children. However; infidelity is also a common reality in modern society. This is why stories about infidelity are emotionally interesting.

I know that I piss off a lot of the BTB crowd because the ladies in my stories don't use "reliable" birth control. I got news for people. No birth control is perfect. There have been cases where vasectomies and tubal ligations failed. The pill is rated at 99% with perfect use but actual effectiveness is about 90% to 95%. The almighty condom is rated at only about 75% in real world experience. In contrast, the much maligned "Pull and Pray" method that many of my characters sometimes rely on is about 70% effective.

Think about what these numbers for effectiveness actually mean. Even with a 99% effective BC method, in any given year a group of 100, sexually active women of child bearing age, one will get pregnant each year. The monthly risk is about 1 in 1,000. If you have sex, you are taking a gamble with the risk of pregnancy. If the people having the sex are a married couple, then the consequences of that risk have been accepted by both. There are married women who get abortions when intramarital sex results in a pregnancy, but they are less common than single women. Married couples normally accept the consequences of unintended pregnancies. It is what marriage is for.

Obviously, when a husband engages in extramarital sex, there is a risk of pregnancy. If the other woman is single and promiscuous, then the paternity will be questionable and there might not be consequences for his marriage in the form of child support. If the woman is a prostitute, any pregnancies will almost certainly have no consequence to the marriage. This is why male infidelity has
always been more accepted than female infidelity.

Female infidelity is considered far more threatening to a marriage because any pregnancy is certain to affect the marriage. Even if the husband never knows, raising another man's child will be an expenditure of financial and emotional resources that affects his own children.

My stories attempt to address one aspect of female infidelity that the BTB crowd ignore. The impact of female infidelity on a marriage is most profound when the husband decides to BTB. Killing the wife is the most extreme response that will leave the children without a mother and may be without a father if he is stupid. (I don't condone murder, but most police are imbeciles. Anyone who is reasonably careful to plan a premeditated murder has an extremely good chance of getting away with it.). Divorcing the wife will obviously impact the children as well as the husband.

The BTB crowd ignore the likely consequences of divorce for the husband. The feminists who claim that men profit from divorce are idiots. Husbands will normally loose half of what they own plus pay support for many years. The BTB fantasy of finding a younger, hotter yet loyal wife to have a new family with is unlikely. The husband's diminished finances will make him less attractive as a mate. The reality is that divorced husbands usually either remain single or marry a divorced woman who has children by her previous marriage. He expends money to not only support his first wife's children (presumably his), but also his second wife's children who he knows are not his. Only if he is fortunate will he have children with his second wife.

This reality explains why many husbands will logically not react to a wife's suspected or known infidelity with extreme anger. Forgiving a repentant wife or even allowing an unrepentant wife's infidelity is the only plausible strategy that can save the marriage and thus enhance the husband's chances of long term reproductive success. (Children from divorced families are less likely to have children than children from intact families.)

The problem for a logical husband is then how to cope during or immediately after a wife's infidelity. One very common reaction is to eroticize the experience. Obviously, this enables the husband to be the sire of any children that his wife conceives during her episode of infidelity. It also preserves their marital bond.

 

[robertreams]

I don't see what the fuss is about. "loving Wives are plenty loving, to someone.

 

[Hypoxia]

I don't get the hangup on "Cheating." If my wife enjoys tennis would I get jealous of her playing tennis with a friend? No, I wouldn't and I don't think most other men would, but if my wife enjoys sex and has sex with a friend, I'm supposed to get jealous or angry or both. It don't make no sense to me.

Well, tennis is usually less intimate than sex, unless one or both are done wrong.

I wrote on this in What Is Cheating?. Look at Games: a Game is what humans do to organize and occupy our non-productive time. Politics, Religion, Economics, Sports, Arts, Sex -- all are Game systems. Each Game is defined by Rules In any human interaction or Game, 'cheating' depends on the agreed Rules. If the Players agree to exclusive tennis-ball whacking, then whacking balls with a friend is cheating. Same with exclusive sex. Check your own rulebook, eh?

As with other Games, if you don't like the Rules, you as a sexual Game-Player can 1) cheat, 2) change the rules, or 3) start or play a different Game (such as Divorce). IMHO much of the LW angst derives from inflexible Players stuck on the most restrictive Rules. Many societies hold such restrictions sacred -- and others don't. In some societies, infidelity is expected. Different Games, different Rules.

 

[sr71plt]

Well, tennis is usually less intimate than sex, unless one or both are done wrong.

Oh, I don't know. I've had a whole lot of tennis dates that ended up with sexual trysts. In fact, one whole Saturday morning informal tennis club in Bangkok was set up on that premise. Have even written about some of them.

 

[Cuckoldjim]

Well, tennis is usually less intimate than sex, unless one or both are done wrong.

I wrote on this in What Is Cheating?. Look at Games: a Game is what humans do to organize and occupy our non-productive time. Politics, Religion, Economics, Sports, Arts, Sex -- all are Game systems. Each Game is defined by Rules In any human interaction or Game, 'cheating' depends on the agreed Rules. If the Players agree to exclusive tennis-ball whacking, then whacking balls with a friend is cheating. Same with exclusive sex. Check your own rulebook, eh?

As with other Games, if you don't like the Rules, you as a sexual Game-Player can 1) cheat, 2) change the rules, or 3) start or play a different Game (such as Divorce). IMHO much of the LW angst derives from inflexible Players stuck on the most restrictive Rules. Many societies hold such restrictions sacred -- and others don't. In some societies, infidelity is expected. Different Games, different Rules.

I think your submission, "what is cheating," is insightful. My stories focus on maturing, traditional couples who took their wedding vows very seriously two decades earlier but then find themselves strugging with the rules. The husbands that I portray are derided by the BTB crowd, but they are simply acting at least somewhat rationally given the situation. They understand at least on an instinctually level, that the BTB strategy has profound risks and costs. They have have invested most of their adult lives in their marriages and the progeny from that marriage. They are too old to find a new wife to start a new family with. For these men, reluctant acquiescence is the best
reproductive strategy. The issue is surveying the emotional effects of their wives infidelity. Eroticizing their wives' infidelity is a coping mechanism.

 

[Cuckoldjim]

Here is a story based on a real event that illustrates the risks of implementing the BTB strategy.

http://www.literotica.com/s/uncle-festers-repudiation

 

[GoldenCojones]

Well, tennis is usually less intimate than sex, unless one or both are done wrong.

Each Game is defined by Rules In any human interaction or Game, 'cheating' depends on the agreed Rules. If the Players agree to exclusive tennis-ball whacking, then whacking balls with a friend is cheating. Same with exclusive sex. Check your own rulebook, eh?

You make good points and I would agree that intentionally doing it behind my back would be cheating, per se. I still don't get those who think exclusive sex is the only way to go. It may be right for some, I guess, and more power to them if it makes them happy. Being less restrictive in the rules makes me happier because I don't have to worry about whether or not my wife is bumping uglies with some other guy or gal. As long as I know she loves me and is going to come home to me, what difference does it make? To me, none. To others, quite a bit, I suppose.

 

[jawanaut]

Okay, I want to jump in the discussion now...

First, the ratings:
I have several stories on Literoctica; most LW (or were supposed to be later changed due to negative feedback in the comments; but not anymore) and all my ratings generally hover around 4. Now, the comments? Oh my. I would say more negative than positive, but usually not about the story. More about the subject matter.
Personally, I have seen that readers who like the story with rate and like, but not comment; readers (if you can even call them that, as I do not believe they even read the story) who do not like the story will either rate a 1 or not at all, and then 'blow up' the comment section with rants and whines about what the they would do if they were the main character. Complete and utter drivel!
I think it was said best above; much like celebrities, some of the best loved are almost always hated when you look at opinion polls. I used to delete the comments that were just blatant rants about the subject matter; I don't anymore. The comment section is a living organism in itself, and the more you try to control and sensor it, I feel, the more it takes away from the whole purpose of sharing in a public forum.
Now, onto the psychology of LW?
I have a what's good for the goose type of feeling on this. Being in an open marriage, myself, for over fifteen years I've found it works for some, but not for others. My wife is my best friend. Has been seen I met her. We spent the first five years together constantly. Sharing everything. That feeling hasn't faded, even though we've journeyed outside of the marriage and taken on other lovers.
We both think and agree, it is possible to love more than one person at a time. Love is not a finite resource that needs to be coveted and controlled. Love is infinite. You will never run out, just as we both love our two daughters equally. We have fallen in love with other people several times over the last decade. Sometimes it lasts for a few months and sometimes there have been one's that hung around for a few years; until they realized they would always have to share and left to find someone they could keep to themselves.
There are different dynamics to marriage. Firstly, it is merely a legal contract to allow for things in society you could not get if you were just boyfriend/girlfriend. I can't tell you how many times I've said "Oh it's my wife's" or something of the like, and did not even have to show documented proof. I find that weird, but funny at the same time. People will allow certain things from a spouse that they would not accept from a boyfriend.
My wife and I do not even wear wedding bands. There is really no need for them. Just jewelry, doesn't matter.
Now, are we swingers, because we share each other with others? Are we more poly because we date/love others? I don't know, but don't really care either. It's just a title. It also, doesn't matter.
With the divorce rate in the U.S. at around a constant 50%, I'd say we can tell a lot from that statistic. Half of the people should be open relationships, or not even marry at all. The other half enjoy their safe little boxes and have no need to make fantasy a reality.
I'm very fortunate in all of this. I found, fell in love and married the greatest person on the planet. For me, that is. Maybe she wouldn't be for Tom, Dick and Harry, but she is for me. We both make it very clear that we will never leave each other and make efforts to show this in our daily lives. Jealousy is merely seeing someone else have what you want. I don't get jealous of my wife, nor her of me.
The "lifestyle" (for lack of any better term) is not for everyone and I understand that. Maybe that's why it's easy to mentally disregard the negative comments; because they're not only bashing my story but also my lifestyle. But, I get that all the time anyway. Society has not openly evolved to tackle the issues. We (society) cheat and hide it. We get angry when a stranger has an abortion or believes in a different god. We piss and moan about a Muslim church being built, but shove our own religion down the throats of everyone nice enough to listen.
A person is smart, but people.... people are dumb, subjective, panicky, hateful and rude. Mob mentality will always rule, when there are more than two individuals. Sad, but very true.
I never comment negative on others stories I read. If I like the story, I will favorite and rate. If it's jaw dropping, mind blowing or really gave me any other emotion, I will comment and let the author know I was moved by what they wrote. If I really, really didn't like the story (and there have been a few) I won't even rate and for sure will not comment. Why open that can? You'll get flamed in the comments section.
Topics and stories:
Now, is "Loving Wives" the correct name for the topic. I think so. My stories involve infidelity, but the wives are most certainly loving. Just like a 'hot wife' does not mean a 'slut wife'.
I think if everyone can get over what everyone else is doing, we'd all be better off. If his wife fucking the milk man doesn't hurt you, keep your mouth shut. If he encourages the milk man to fuck his wife, it really doesn't matter what you think of it; again keep your mouth shut. Too many people feel the need to throw their opinions around; I blame the internet. With it's invention it gives people the false perception their morals are more valid than everybody else.

I would also just like to point out; commenter (usually Anon) always seem to piss and moan about the category. I honestly don't see why.
Loving Wives - Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more.
Yup, seems that cuckolding would fit this category. js

 

[robertreams]

I think it is weird that people differentiate sooo much. A story is a story.No one will catch syph or even herpes from reading it, If one doesn't like what one is reading, one can stop. Without further harm. I was once asked to edit a story in which the protagonist could not get off unless he smeared his partner with shit. I didn't edit it, thankfully declined. But I am still alive and none the worse for wear.

I think some people merely enjoy bitching. These people are called bitches. They can be of either sex. Mostly the love to hear their own voices blown back at them. Ignore them and they will go away.

 

[robertreams]

TQM's original submission to this thread was very thought-provoking and the subsequent comments are most interesting. They highlight the very important distinction between fantasy-'It's only a story' and believability i.e. realism. Fantasies of cheating or spouse-sharing are common and, no doubt, enjoyable for many who haven't personally been damaged by them, However, making Loving Wives credible is very difficult if the author chooses to ignore the nasty realities of real-life cheating or spouse-sharing. And nasty they are-I have spent the last 15 years clearing up the wreckage of divorces or trying to minimise the damage by appropriate pre or post-nuptial contracts.

Firstly I (and my colleagues in the partnership) would strongly resist the notion that there is an increased tolerance for cheating. We have seen no sign of it and the published statistics don't support it. The parties to a solemn contract have a immutable right to expect that it will be honored-indeed this is a fundamental requirement of most societies. Consequently people expect cheaters to be punished and are unsatisfied if they 'get away with it'. Furthermore cheaters hurt others and, naturally, society doesn't like that either. It isn't really a question of whether they are 'wicked' but rather that they are behaving in a way which, if widespread, undermines the fabric of human relations. Consequently the natural desire for offenders to be punished is not decreasing, nor will it as long as humans interact with one another by entering voluntarily into contracts. In LW terms the bitch doesn't have to be beaten but she sure should suffer. Having seen a fair number of 'attractive, bright and usually successful' (TQM's words) husbands and wives destroy their marriages and their spouse's and children's lives I have to say that they are often more than usually self-centered, they put their own desires ahead of their families', they don't fully appreciate the likelihood that they will be found out and they have a quite absurd belief that 'it's OK if no-one else knows about it'. It's also incredible that these bright people never seem to have a contingency plan to handle the moment when suspicions start to be aroused. Incidentally in our experience cheaters are often found out because cheating is so much easier to justify to themselves the second and subsequent times so the opportunities for discovery rise rapidly. However many marriages stagger on, seriously wounded or permanently maimed and, therefore, with a lot of regrets, because the costs of divorce both emotionally and financially are so high. Conversely it is always grimly amusing to hear from those who have gone through a divorce that 'In retrospect it was a good thing'. In most of these cases the dispassionate observer, even a divorce lawyer, might seriously disagree. A very expensive mistake is still that.

There appears to be an early indication, in the US and Canada at least, that divorce rates are falling. If our experience is any guide (and I recognise that it may not be) the reasons for this are clear. Fewer people are choosing to get married and, inevitably, the ones whose personalities make them less willing to commit (and more likely to cheat) are avoiding marriage. However, the chances of a marriage failing are still 40% to 50 % in the US and cheating is still a significant cause. incidentally for all you cuckolding fans, the chances of divorce among those who voluntarily share their spouses are several times higher. This accords with common sense-the more your spouse samples others the greater their chance of finding someone they prefer over you. So don't run away with the idea that sharing your spouse shows maturity or security-it actually shows total lack of realism in the face of the facts, if you share them you have an overwhelming chance of losing them eventually.

So for us believability fans, if you are going to try to get us excited by a sexual encounter you should try to avoid suggesting that in the background there is an innocent family who could be badly hurt That isn't a sexy thought. Similarly, if you are trying to write a credible cuckolding story rather than a total fantasy, admittedly very difficult, you need to consider and address the reality that the chances of a marriage surviving much of that sort of thing are small. Otherwise, in both cases, the reader says, 'Too unrealistic to be credible'. It's no coincidence, I feel, that many of the most highly regarded Literotica writers deliver on these requirements.

gabaa and others: Does anyone out there know the difference between fantasy and reality? In reality, families are harmed. In fantasy, no one is harmed! That's why it is called Fantasy.

I have been happily and faithfully married for 32 years, but I fantasize every day. The two have no relation to one another except that sometimes my fantasies make me a better lover for my wife.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

gabaa and others: Does anyone out there know the difference between fantasy and reality? In reality, families are harmed. In fantasy, no one is harmed! That's why it is called Fantasy.

I have been happily and faithfully married for 32 years, but I fantasize every day. The two have no relation to one another except that sometimes my fantasies make me a better lover for my wife.

I know this might be hard to grasp, but it's quite common for fantasy to effect reality.

I thought gabaa's post was very interesting and educational as well.

 

[robertreams]

I think letting the fantasy world invade your real world could be defined as? Nuts? Crazy? A plastic toy short of a happy meal?

I am not speaking of making logical adult choices, with advice and consent, but surrender to fantasy as reality. Such as being offended by reading a story, written by someone else, about a relationship that has nothing to do with you, and taking it personally. That is insanity. No one can harm you emotionally without your cooperation.

 

[Trip_Dalton]

So you're saying nobody should learn a new sexual idea from a fantasy sex story? Nobody should ever argue or debate the ideas of Gene Roddenberry, or H.G. Wells?

You do realize everything is a fantasy until someone makes it a reality, right?

Stories provoke thought, and thought leads to discussion. Sometimes those discussions lead to arguments, it's human nature.

It must suck to have never lived out a fantasy.

 

[robertreams]

Dalton, stop saying what I said. I didn't say what you said or anything close to it. I specifically spoke of making intelligent choices with foreknowledge and communication, which would be an attempt, at least, at change and growth. Getting bent out of shape and writing paragraph after paragraph (I am not putting down a rational examination of infidelity) because someone's story is not to your individual liking, is giving that author the right and ability to control your thoughts and emotions. And that is insanity. (one does not have to react even to a punch in the nose, one can choose to act rationally) If the reading offends you, stop reading. If the category offends you, don't read it. Ta Da! simple!

 

[Trip_Dalton]

I won't even justify that with a response. If you can't see how lame that reads, I'm not wasting my time explaining it.

 

[Ricco52]

I primarily read the LW tales here because there are some well written ones that grab your emotions and hold on to you to the end, no matter the length. Though two of my favorites, Did she cheat and Our Deepest secrets by Strangelife are funny short stories.


I have experienced the pain caused by infidelity, as an adult child, though honestly for me it wasn't the infidelity as much as the lies, deceits and manipulation of friends and family that was used to try and hide it. I also got dragged into the middle of the divorce, when it was discovered that over the course of a couple of years my mother had a couple of different lovers, and she been stealing money from the family owned business to support them. As a result, I had to co-sign on checks drawn from those accounts, which of course meant I had to listen to both sides gripe about the other. I can't tell you what it felt like to hear my mother try to blame me for her actions - because I got married too young (I married my college girlfriend shortly after graduation) and had a child too young (about 2 years after getting married), and that it was cruel that I made her a grandmother at her age. There were more than a few times like that when we felt like we were living in a Lifetime made for TV movie.

 

[Hypoxia]

I primarily read the LW tales here because there are some well written ones that grab your emotions and hold on to you to the end, no matter the length.
<...>
I have experienced the pain caused by infidelity, as an adult child, though honestly for me it wasn't the infidelity as much as the lies, deceits and manipulation of friends and family that was used to try and hide it.

Ditto here on both. The better LW tales are some of LIT's most dramatic. And I know my mother's cheating and destruction of marriage and family messed up my and my siblings' lives significantly. (We were in our early teen years.)

I can take the long-term view: for all the shit I went through (self-inflicted or not) I'm in a great place now. I can't say the same for my siblings. I only had one divorce. They each had three or four. At least we survived, if not intact.

Do I mentally plug Mom into those Cheating Wife stories? Not consciously. No, I don't see that as a *reason* I read LW. Hmm, that might be a good poll question: Who do you visualize when reading cheating stories? Your own parent(s) or (ex-)partner(s)? Cheaters you've known or suspected? Yourself?

 

[Ricco52]

Do I mentally plug Mom into those Cheating Wife stories? Not consciously. No, I don't see that as a *reason* I read LW. Hmm, that might be a good poll question: Who do you visualize when reading cheating stories? Your own parent(s) or (ex-)partner(s)? Cheaters you've known or suspected? Yourself?

I've never given that much thought, though at times I've wondered how I would behave in some of the situations portrayed in the stories.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

I have two LW stories on here and have received a great deal of feedback, both positive and negative. My stories don't fit the three categories defined early in this thread however. I write about hyper-sexual women who are married but not dead. I am intensely turned on by sexual women. I have a firm grasp on the concept that "Love" and "Sex" are separate but not mutually exclusive things.

I don't get the hangup on "Cheating." If my wife enjoys tennis would I get jealous of her playing tennis with a friend? No, I wouldn't and I don't think most other men would, but if my wife enjoys sex and has sex with a friend, I'm supposed to get jealous or angry or both. It don't make no sense to me.

So I stir up the trolls, laugh at their idiocy, and live my life happily.

Hey it's all just my opinion.

LW is what it is.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

LW is what it is.

^^^a cunt is what it is.

 

[geronimo_appleby]

^^^a cunt is what it is.

you're a dog's lipstick, aren't you? i dunno why you persist, you'll never beat me.

 

[sr71plt]

Hmmm. I've had some divorces in the family and some humdingers of LW situations (A grandfather ran off with the maid--who had just married his brother; An uncle was murdered by his second wife according to one of these Dateline-type TV shows, with the wife's boyfriend then offing her), but I can say I ever connected any of that to the Literotica LW category stories in anything close to terms of being traumatized by the stories posted to the category here.

 

[robertreams]

LW is what it is.

Geronimo, I am with you. We are old now ,but at any time in our almost 35 years together my wife had wanted to have sex with anther man I would have said, "Did you learn something we could use?" or "Can you bring him home for us?" jealousy is for losers and those who have no faith and confidence in themselves or their SO. I never did get the whole jealousy thing. as far as "faithfulness" is concerned, there are thousands of ways to be unfaithful and cheat, very few if any, have anything to do with sex. Cheating doesn't hurt me because I don't make unreasonable demands
Such as MONOGAMY!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

you're a dog's lipstick, aren't you? i dunno why you persist, you'll never beat me.

I'm the flashlite (torch) illuminating the dog turd on the path.