Weird Harold
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ldrequiv said:
This is an interesting question that probably deserves it's own thread. I think I'll reserve my answer for the new thread.
Made or Born
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This is an interesting question that probably deserves it's own thread. I think I'll reserve my answer for the new thread.
Sabledrake
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I'd definitely fall mainly into the "story creator" category.
Sabledrake
Sabledrake
jon.hayworth
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TALENT is a (as an agnostic I fear to use this phrase) "God given gift," something you are either born with, or you do not have. Story telling predates the written word, the abilitity to construct and tell a story is a TALENT. - However God given or whatever - those skills can be sharpened and polished.
The skills used in writing, to translate the images of a fertile imagination into a form that can be communicated to other people have to be acquired and developed: they are not present from birth!
I always think in describing themselves, that people who write plays are fundementaly more honest than people who write stories. -
Story writers call themselves "AUTHORS" implying that they practice some sort of ART.
Whilst the creators of plays call themselves PLAYWRIGHTS with the implication that they practice a CRAFT. - Other "wrights" are shipwrights, wheelwrights, millwrights all of who are apprentice served, crafts people.
The more people write, the more they read, the higher they set their sights the better writers of stories they will become.
jon
The skills used in writing, to translate the images of a fertile imagination into a form that can be communicated to other people have to be acquired and developed: they are not present from birth!
I always think in describing themselves, that people who write plays are fundementaly more honest than people who write stories. -
Story writers call themselves "AUTHORS" implying that they practice some sort of ART.
Whilst the creators of plays call themselves PLAYWRIGHTS with the implication that they practice a CRAFT. - Other "wrights" are shipwrights, wheelwrights, millwrights all of who are apprentice served, crafts people.
The more people write, the more they read, the higher they set their sights the better writers of stories they will become.
jon
TheEarl
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Interesting point. I am technically a very good writer; I have a large vocabulary, I can write interesting sentences, I know how to construct a good story, I can make things interestign and reasonable. However somehow all the skills that I've learned don't appear to add together to make me a good story writer. If you looked at what I know how to do, I should be able to write catcher in the rye. However I can't. Something missing...
The Earl
The Earl
jon.hayworth
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The Earl wrote -"Interesting point. I am technically a very good writer; I have a large vocabulary, I can write interesting sentences, I know how to construct a good story, I can make things interestign and reasonable. However somehow all the skills that I've learned don't appear to add together to make me a good story writer. If you looked at what I know how to do, I should be able to write catcher in the rye. However I can't. Something missing... "
I think in this post Earl is making the point I was trying to put over - the art of writing is only one of the skills required. Another skill of equal importance is understanding the markets. What genre of work a publisher or publication requires and who the readership are. National Newspapers in the UK issue journalists with style and word books, so that their writers will use words and punctuation that the readership comprehends.
The Daily Mirror book used to be published as Woodhouse on Words - I am not sure if that is still published. The Times publishes The Times Guide to English Style and Usage.
I would love to get a peak at the Sunday Sports word book
.A major part of the craft side of writing is being commercially aware. Writing to the market is a lot simpler than leafing through the Writers Handbook or Artists and Writer's Yearbook trying to place your completed masterpiece.
Sorry if this offends people's artistc pretentions but that is what I have found out and at least I get the ocassional cheque for my efforts.jon
Weird Harold
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jon.hayworth said:
My artistic pretensions aren't offended, however, ...
Earlier I tried to make the point that the art or craft of writing is the "learnable" part of writing a good story. It's been said of some actors that, "He could read the phone book and make it interesting." By the same token, there are authors who could write a grocery list and make it interesting.
Technical skill, knowing the market, and all of the other "learnable" parts of writing can mak an author competent. Having that spark of inspiration, imagination, talent, or whatever you want to call it that distinguishes a story-teller from a writer is something that, IMHO, is something youhave to be born with.
There are stories on this site that are technically "barely literate" but rise above the technicl flaws to be an enjoyable read anyway -- those are by natural born story-tellers. With a little help with the technical aspects those authors could become great authors -- provided that they didn't become obseesed with the technical details and forget to tell the stories.
jon.hayworth
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WH - I do not think that we are in a fundemental disagreement. I do not deny the importance of inherent talent as a foundation stone upon which a story teller is founded.
The point that I was trying to make is: a teller of stories may have, oodles of inherent imagination, a vocabuary that matches the full OED, a knowledge of English grammer equal to Benjamin or messrs Strunk and White - or whoever is the text-book writer of choice where you live. However if that writer does not have a grain of commercial savvy - if they insist on writing what they want to write in a style they prefer to use, rather than writing to the market using the style the market requires then they will have a difficult time in the long drawn out process of finding a publisher.
Let me give a simple example of writing for the market. I am based in the UK we spell some words differently and some words have different meanings to the US version of English. 2 of my revenue sources are US based Websites - so when writing for them I have my spellchecker set on English USA. I also use a dictionary English UK / English USA so as to try and produce work that needs the minimum of editing. People including Editors / Webmasters are lazy so maybe there arte better UK based writers out there; but if they submit in UK English that needs to be spellchecked and reworked, whilst mine needs minimal style tweaking mine gets accepted.
It is the little tricks that I regard as being the craft part of being a story writer; but these little tricks can make an piece attractive to an editor, and that maybe the cat's whisker of difference between being published or not.
jon
The point that I was trying to make is: a teller of stories may have, oodles of inherent imagination, a vocabuary that matches the full OED, a knowledge of English grammer equal to Benjamin or messrs Strunk and White - or whoever is the text-book writer of choice where you live. However if that writer does not have a grain of commercial savvy - if they insist on writing what they want to write in a style they prefer to use, rather than writing to the market using the style the market requires then they will have a difficult time in the long drawn out process of finding a publisher.
Let me give a simple example of writing for the market. I am based in the UK we spell some words differently and some words have different meanings to the US version of English. 2 of my revenue sources are US based Websites - so when writing for them I have my spellchecker set on English USA. I also use a dictionary English UK / English USA so as to try and produce work that needs the minimum of editing. People including Editors / Webmasters are lazy so maybe there arte better UK based writers out there; but if they submit in UK English that needs to be spellchecked and reworked, whilst mine needs minimal style tweaking mine gets accepted.
It is the little tricks that I regard as being the craft part of being a story writer; but these little tricks can make an piece attractive to an editor, and that maybe the cat's whisker of difference between being published or not.
jon
