Manson Family Killer Asks For "Compassion"

[john-the-author]

She apparently has had a leg amputated for some reason.

Very possibly diabetic complications, which are very common in prison. The diet frequently runs to fats and there's a lack of exercise that can lead to type II diabetes.

 

[john-the-author]

Box wouldn't be the only one.

Can't her freinds and family attend her in the prison hospital?

I agree; Box would not be the only one.

Having her family and friends attend her as they choose in the prison hospital is an act with plenty of precedent and it will give her whatever comfort it will. But I believe that the whole idea of imprisonment in her case is both punishment and protection of society from anything further she might do. Both courses directly suggest that she should stay where she is.

Knowing that she's dying of brain cancer (a rather unpleasant death) is probably punishment enough. Keeping society safe by keeping her imprisoned is the other half.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I agree; Box would not be the only one.

Having her family and friends attend her as they choose in the prison hospital is an act with plenty of precedent and it will give her whatever comfort it will. But I believe that the whole idea of imprisonment in her case is both punishment and protection of society from anything further she might do. Both courses directly suggest that she should stay where she is.

Knowing that she's dying of brain cancer (a rather unpleasant death) is probably punishment enough. Keeping society safe by keeping her imprisoned is the other half.

I'd like to make this part very clear; letting her out of prison will not endanger society at this point. She's no danger to anyone at all-- hasn't been for a long time.

But I do think that society would seem a little less secure. Because we need to know that the justice that was served will continue be served. That the memory of why she's in prison hasn't faded. That her victims still matter.

 

[Weird Harold]

Most of you have more compassion for a dog than you do your fellow humans. She's dying. Isn't that enough for you?

Yes, I would have more compassion for a dog with a brain tumor than I do for a convict serving a life sentence with the possibility of parole -- especially one serving a sentence commuted from a death sentence.

The Dog would be put down humanely and painlessly, but society won't allow that to happen to Atkins, no matter what.

If I truly had no compassion for her illness, I'd be screaming to put her ass out on the street with no medical insurance and no possible hope of getting any medical insurance so that she suffered to the maximum possible extent from her disease.

Instead, I'm willing to ignore the cost of terminal medical care and insist that she serve out her sentence where the state of California is liable for providing her medical care comparable (superior) to the non-prison population.

Why is it "merciful" to let her out of jail now? Her life is over to all intents and purposes, she will be unable to do anything with her time outside, if it is granted. So, she will be in a different room with a different view from the window.

It sounds more like an economic decision wrapped up in compassionate wrapping paper.

It might well be an economic decision if she's granted compassionate parole. But dumping her on the street with no medical coverage except what her husband/lawyer can provide is not likely to be "merciful" in any meangful way -- although bankrupting a lawyer while saving the State the cost of terminal care seems like an enticing proposition to me.

I would be concerned about the possibility of a "Grand Exit" on her part, so she definitely shouldn't be paroled until she's completely invalided; it's difficult to plan and execute a Grand Exit/Suicide-by-Police if you're hooked up to a respiratory ventilator and a half dozen catheters for feeding, medication and elimination.

 

[elsol]

To be honest, I don't get it... call me unmerciful or uncompassionate.

Her sentence was to live the rest of her life & die in prison. So the whole compassionate argument isn't about her dying in prison because NEWSFLASH that's what a sentence of life in prison is supposed to be -- Hi, a jury of your peers has decided you get to live in a cell until you DIE! The fact that she's dying of a brain whatever instead of old age is irrelevant.

If there's another reason, she's being released then we talk... like you know, "hey, you've done your time and we've decided to let you go." Or "Hey, we've decided that it's mean to have people dying in prison!" or even "Hey, today the sky is blue so you get to go free!"

-- Does this mean that if I only have six months to live, I don't have to go to jail if I start offing people? Shit, I'm SOOO glad I've got my "If I get Cancer, you're SOOOO fucking dead" list all written out. I will take suggestions though.

 

[Liar]

I despair for humans, sometimes.

For those of you who are Christian, what ever happened to "Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord."?

Most of you have more compassion for a dog than you do your fellow humans. She's dying. Isn't that enough for you?

My point here was not "let the bitch rot in jail". But rather, are there special reasons to show said compassion, while other lifers do not enjoy the same?

Should terminally ill prisoners routinely get released, regardless of their crime? Possibly. Let's discuss the pro and con of that, instead of focusing on this one spectacular case. If the answer is yes, then by all means, let her go in peace. If the answer is no, then why is she special?

 

[Pure]

liar, i agree.

i see no prob with terminally ill lifers spending the last month at home. and i see no relevance of 'heinousness', i.e. a rule like this: the mildly heinous and ill can die at home, and the extremely heinous, in prison hosp.

i'm sure compassionate releases have happened for a variety of offenders.

 

[S-Des]

Shit, I'm SOOO glad I've got my "If I get Cancer, you're SOOOO fucking dead" list all written out. I will take suggestions though.

Do you keep that next to your, "Ten women I'm allowed to fuck without my wife/girlfriend getting mad" list?

 

[ishtat]

I know it's a bit of a thread jack but do you think that society and perhaps the people on this Board are tougher on a woman than they would be on a man in these circumstances. What I mean is ,are we more revolted because a woman, normally thought of as a giver of life has taken a life and worst of all that of another pregnant female.

Does her sex encourage our urge for retibution?

 

[ms.read]

I know it's a bit of a thread jack but do you think that society and perhaps the people on this Board are tougher on a woman than they would be on a man in these circumstances. What I mean is ,are we more revolted because a woman, normally thought of as a giver of life has taken a life and worst of all that of another pregnant female.

Does her sex encourage our urge for retibution?

She is a person. She took another person's life. It doesn't matter if she has a penis or a vagina, or what her sexual orientation/ history is. She knowingly took another person's life, and depending upon whether you thing a fetus is a person or not ( i do) she took 2 person's lives.

This person deserves to rot in Hell for what she did. that is why she is in prison. it's called punishment. you do not let up on a person's punishment when the person whines that she is "going to be good now". Sounds like every whiny five year old that has been put in the corner.

and no, I don't care if the woman is physically ill/dying in prison. let her shrivel up and die, and be less of a burden on us taxpayers.

 

[ms.read]

My point here was not "let the bitch rot in jail". But rather, are there special reasons to show said compassion, while other lifers do not enjoy the same?

Should terminally ill prisoners routinely get released, regardless of their crime? Possibly. Let's discuss the pro and con of that, instead of focusing on this one spectacular case. If the answer is yes, then by all means, let her go in peace. If the answer is no, then why is she special?

let her go in peace. i think the special circumstance should be her getting to choose the way she dies. Oh wait a minute.. did Mrs. Tate get that? Umm no.

on the other hand, how about a nice injection of a high dose of fatally potent pain killer?
Right in the ass.

 

[Liar]

Does her sex encourage our urge for retibution?

Or does it increase the average willingness for compassion?

Can't say for sure either way.

 

[Pure]

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-atkins13-2008jun13,0,4594356.story

Prison officials may free Manson family's Susan Atkins due to illness

Woman convicted in the 1969 murder of actress Sharon Tate reportedly has less than six months to live. Sources say she has brain cancer and one of her legs has been amputated.

By Andrew Blankstein and Hector Becerra, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
June 13, 2008



State corrections officials are considering a request by former Charles Manson follower and convicted murderer Susan Atkins to be released from prison because of an undisclosed terminal illness.

Atkins' initial request for "compassionate release" consideration was made last month after a doctor determined that she had less than six months to live, said Terry Thornton, spokeswoman for the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. It is unclear if Atkins, 59, made the request or if it was made on her behalf by a doctor or family member.

Citing medical confidentiality laws, Thornton said she could not disclose the nature of the illness. But sources close to the case said that Atkins had suffered from brain cancer and had undergone amputation of one of her legs.

Atkins has been in state prison 37 years, longer than any other female inmate in California, Thornton said. She is serving a life sentence with the possibility of parole, making her eligible for release.

Atkins and other members of Manson's cult were convicted of killing actress Sharon Tate and six other people during a bloody rampage in the Los Angeles area over two nights in 1969. Tate, the wife of director Roman Polanski, was 8 1/2 months pregnant when she was killed at her hilltop home in Benedict Canyon.

Atkins was also convicted of the earlier killing of music teacher Gary Hinman.

Her request for release has already been approved by the California Institution for Women in Corona, where she was housed from April 1971 until March, when she was transferred to a local hospital for treatment.

Officials at the Corona facility concluded that Atkins should be considered for release because of her failing health and because she no longer posed a risk to others.

Several obstacles remain, however. Her bid for release must still be approved by officials at the state Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation, Thornton said. A positive recommendation would send her case to the state Board of Parole, which would conduct an investigation and issue its own findings, she said. That hearing could include public comment.

Vincent Bugliosi, who prosecuted Atkins, said she deserved the death penalty in 1971. But the former prosecutor said he believed now that Atkins has sincerely renounced Manson and that her 37 years in prison, along with her illness, changed things.

"She has paid substantially, though not completely, for her horrendous crimes. Paying completely would mean imposing the death penalty," Bugliosi said. "But given that she has six months to live, and the loss of her leg, I don't have an objection to her being released."

Last month, sheriff's deputies and forensic experts began searching for buried human remains at a sun-scorched ranch in Inyo County once used as a hangout by the Manson family. For decades, rumors have persisted that graves existed at the ranch.

Investigators used ground-penetrating radar, magnetometers and shovels at the Barker Ranch but did not find any human remains. They did find a .38-caliber bullet casing, but it was unclear whether it was related to Manson.
====

 

[S-Des]

I know it's a bit of a thread jack but do you think that society and perhaps the people on this Board are tougher on a woman than they would be on a man in these circumstances. What I mean is ,are we more revolted because a woman, normally thought of as a giver of life has taken a life and worst of all that of another pregnant female.

Does her sex encourage our urge for retibution?

Just the opposite for me. If this was John Couey (the scum that raped and killed a 9 year-old Florida girl), I'd be far more strident about him not getting a break. I don't let the anger eat me up, but I don't spend a minute of my life worrying that he might be unhappy with his situation. Somehow I suspect that if this was Couey, there wouldn't have been any condemnation of people who didn't want to let him go free.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Just the opposite for me. If this was John Couey (the scum that raped and killed a 9 year-old Florida girl), I'd be far more strident about him not getting a break. I don't let the anger eat me up, but I don't spend a minute of my life worrying that he might be unhappy with his situation. Somehow I suspect that if this was Couey, there wouldn't have been any condemnation of people who didn't want to let him go free.

Agreed. I also think if it was Manson who was dying, there would be even more unwillingless to release him. As I said before, haul away her carcass after she dies, and not one second before. I have compasion for the victims, not for the killers.

I'm puzzled about the article thst Pure posted. It says that this bitch has been in prison longer than any woman in CA. There were at least two other women sentenced at the dame time and for the same crimes. Has Atkins been in prison longer than those others and, if so, why? Maybe she was arrested sooner for the other murder that was mentioned, and convicted. That would explain it.

 

[Belegon]

I think that the mercy I am most concerned with in this specific case is being merciful to those who loved Sharon Tate. I do not believe that the ruthless murderer of her and her unborn child deserves release.

Keeping her end as painless as possible I can agree to... while she finishes serving her sentence.

 

[cloudy]

Agreed. I also think if it was Manson who was dying, there would be even more unwillingless to release him. As I said before, haul away her carcass after she dies, and not one second before. I have compasion for the victims, not for the killers.

I'm puzzled about the article thst Pure posted. It says that this bitch has been in prison longer than any woman in CA. There were at least two other women sentenced at the dame time and for the same crimes. Has Atkins been in prison longer than those others and, if so, why? Maybe she was arrested sooner for the other murder that was mentioned, and convicted. That would explain it.

She was arrested for the murder of Gary Hinman, along with a couple of others and was in jail awaiting trial for that murder when she talked to her cellmate, and told her all about the Tate/LaBianca murders....so yes, she's been in prison/jail longer than the other two.

What about Linda Kasabian? She was there for both the Tate and LaBianca murders, although she didn't actually kill anyone. She was the driver both nights because (I believe) she was the only one among them that had a driver's license.

She was granted total immunity. Y'all are so anxious to draw and quarter everyone else, what about her?

Also, everyone seems to forget that 1) her sentence was commuted to life with the possibility of parole. All of their sentences were, even that of Charles Manson (who has applied several times, but it has always been denied), and 2) no one is taking into account the mind warp that these people underwent.

Has no one but me even studied psychology at all? Has no one but me ever watched anything about Charles Manson? He's an extremely charismatic person, and you catch yourself agreeing with what he says if you aren't perpetually on guard. He has lived his life by manipulating others - that's all he does. I've studied him/the phenomenon, and I'll be quite honest with you: there but for the grace of yada, yada, yada. Any of you would have been just as susceptible, given the environment of that time period, the massive amounts of drugs these people took, and the charisma of Manson.

eta: I wouldn't be worried about living next door to any of the three women that are serving time right now for those crimes, and that y'all are so anxious to kill. Manson is the scary one.

 

[Boxlicker101]

She was arrested for the murder of Gary Hinman, along with a couple of others and was in jail awaiting trial for that murder when she talked to her cellmate, and told her all about the Tate/LaBianca murders....so yes, she's been in prison/jail longer than the other two.

What about Linda Kasabian? She was there for both the Tate and LaBianca murders, although she didn't actually kill anyone. She was the driver both nights because (I believe) she was the only one among them that had a driver's license.

She was granted total immunity. Y'all are so anxious to draw and quarter everyone else, what about her?

Also, everyone seems to forget that 1) her sentence was commuted to life with the possibility of parole. All of their sentences were, even that of Charles Manson (who has applied several times, but it has always been denied), and 2) no one is taking into account the mind warp that these people underwent.

Has no one but me even studied psychology at all? Has no one but me ever watched anything about Charles Manson? He's an extremely charismatic person, and you catch yourself agreeing with what he says if you aren't perpetually on guard. He has lived his life by manipulating others - that's all he does. I've studied him/the phenomenon, and I'll be quite honest with you: there but for the grace of yada, yada, yada. Any of you would have been just as susceptible, given the environment of that time period, the massive amounts of drugs these people took, and the charisma of Manson.

eta: I wouldn't be worried about living next door to any of the three women that are serving time right now for those crimes, and that y'all are so anxious to kill. Manson is the scary one.

The one should probably not have been granted immunity but, since she was, it is a moot point. That "with the possibility of parole" was a technicality. Manson has the same sentence and nobody wants him back out on the streets, or out of prison in any manner, until he dies.

I'm not sure what yu mean by a time warp. I was a young man at the time of these murders, and I don't remember things as being all that different then. There have been changes, but the concepts of good and evil haven't changed. Even if Manson had charisma, his followers went into things with their eyes open. They had to have known that they were not doing the right thing.

The whole crowd should have been put to death twenty years ago.

 

[john-the-author]

She was arrested for the murder of Gary Hinman, along with a couple of others and was in jail awaiting trial for that murder when she talked to her cellmate, and told her all about the Tate/LaBianca murders....so yes, she's been in prison/jail longer than the other two.

What about Linda Kasabian? She was there for both the Tate and LaBianca murders, although she didn't actually kill anyone. She was the driver both nights because (I believe) she was the only one among them that had a driver's license.

She was granted total immunity. Y'all are so anxious to draw and quarter everyone else, what about her?

Also, everyone seems to forget that 1) her sentence was commuted to life with the possibility of parole. All of their sentences were, even that of Charles Manson (who has applied several times, but it has always been denied), and 2) no one is taking into account the mind warp that these people underwent.

Has no one but me even studied psychology at all? Has no one but me ever watched anything about Charles Manson? He's an extremely charismatic person, and you catch yourself agreeing with what he says if you aren't perpetually on guard. He has lived his life by manipulating others - that's all he does. I've studied him/the phenomenon, and I'll be quite honest with you: there but for the grace of yada, yada, yada. Any of you would have been just as susceptible, given the environment of that time period, the massive amounts of drugs these people took, and the charisma of Manson.

eta: I wouldn't be worried about living next door to any of the three women that are serving time right now for those crimes, and that y'all are so anxious to kill. Manson is the scary one.

I've known someone who I'm pretty sure was a serial killer and I'm very familiar with the way in which people like that can cast a glamor and suck you in to a lot of really weird thinking. The thing is that you're still responsible for it.

The earlier comment about differing versions of "mercy" is very relevant. "Mercy" in this case to me is treating them like human beings. I'm not saying we should torture any of them to death. I'm not saying we shouldn't treat them medically to relieve their suffering. I'm not saying we should dump them in a hole and let them die on their own. I'm saying that, given that we don't have the death penalty in their cases, we should keep them incarcerated and not let them back out again. The quote from one of the family members about sociopaths not getting better is absolutely true.

Yes, there was the possibility of parole, but this is neither the promise of redemption nor a get-out-of-jail free card. It may have even been a blanket legal condition that was imposed when the death penalty was taken off the table that has nothing to do with their particular cases. Treat their medical conditions, give them painkillers and appropriate nursing care, and keep them in prison.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

It makes no difference. It's been more than 40 years. Think about it, 70% of the people living today never heard of either her or the Krenwinkle woman. All the people under 25 think Manson's first name is Marilyn and wrongly worship him.

Personally, I think she's harmless.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

The one should probably not have been granted immunity but, since she was, it is a moot point. That "with the possibility of parole" was a technicality. Manson has the same sentence and nobody wants him back out on the streets, or out of prison in any manner, until he dies.

I'm not sure what yu mean by a time warp. I was a young man at the time of these murders, and I don't remember things as being all that different then. There have been changes, but the concepts of good and evil haven't changed. Even if Manson had charisma, his followers went into things with their eyes open. They had to have known that they were not doing the right thing.

The whole crowd should have been put to death twenty years ago.

Um, she said "mind warp".

I think what she was trying to say is that people like Manson, or any other cult figure, has the ability to take the minds of others, especially young people who he deems as an 'uncarved block' and begins to whittle away.
If you take people who are searching for something in their lives or people who don't fit in to society, these charasmatics give them what they need.
Manson didn't have a family, so he created one. He gave them what they needed at that time.
We've all done stupid things when we were younger, granted we didn't murder anyone...unless you were in a war, but we did them. We grieve for the loss of our innocent ways, we atone for our sins and we ask forgiveness.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Real monsters are rarely like space aliens and demonic spawn of Satan.

The absolute worst of them often seem kind and caring and helpful.

Albert Fish assisted Depression Era poor families with money and jobs, then ate their kids.
Jane Tappan was a popular nurse who poisoned her patients, then held them and caressed them as they died.

Tasmanian Devils (like me) scare the crap out of people and cant get close enough to them to harm them, but a sweet angel can.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

CLOUDY

Very True! Every one of us is vulnerable to manipulation.

I'm writing a novel about the phenomenon....how you lead a decent person into the bowels of Hell.

The problem is: Victims dont get a redo or amnesty or pardon or mercy. Victims pay the full admission price.

 

[DesertPirate]

Today the director of adult prisons in CA recomended no release.

 

[Reefkeeper]

The thought of dying from terminal cancer is a horrible prospect. The California Legislature should offer her an exception to the death penalty ban, if she wants. That would be showing compassion.
A needle or a cell, there are no other acceptable options.