Non-Consent

[gabaa]

Non-Consent Things That I Like

This has been a very enlightening thread for me; truly 'different stroked for different folks'.

Since my preferences haven't been fully covered and the success of stories such as those in Black Lace (White Rose Ensnared etc, etc.) suggest that many others share them, here goes;

I like reality. Practical, preferably married and faithful, wives and mothers forced to deal with a situation that they would have avoided if they could. For example, over many thousands of years such women have been captured in war, abducted or blackmailed and forced to become the sexual partners of other men, They feel fear, they lose their families, sometimes but not always, for ever. Often they are physically abused-but in reality(as opposed to fantasy) there's little point in physically injuring a beautiful captive to the extent that she is no longer attractive. Sometimes they have been forced to provide sex to groups of men and women, not infrequently in brothels. Their initial sexual experiences are often unpleasant but, being practical they realize that their lives will be substantially more comfortable if they learn to make the best of what has happened. So they learn the skills necessary to get the best possible outcome for themselves. In many hundreds of thousands of cases such women have simply recognized the inevitability of their situation and eventually settled down to become wives and mothers with a new partner.

There is a rich vein for highly erotic non-consent stories in this. It is well-established that women (men too?) can get great pleasure from forbidden sexual experiences if they can convince themselves that they had no real alternative so do not need to feel guilty.

My preference in fiction is for any villains, rapists, blackmailers etc to get punished and for the victims to live happily ever after-but I recognize that in real life that doesn't happen as often as I would like.

 

[Gotham_Central]

Thanks for your feedback! It is very useful.
Now, I just need to write...

 

[robertreams]

Well, for me it is okay if the "bottom" is asking for it, but only at the end. The beneficent top, who often can tell this person should be a sub, helps his/her (victim) find the ultimate pleasure and joy of total surrender.

 

[robertreams]

Hmm, I can't entirely agree with that. I think it's a little more complex. Readers are generally good about receiving the events narrated in fiction as fiction. But quite often they absorb other aspects of the work as if they were truth, because most fiction authors do try to be truthful about a lot of things.

Random example: Arthur C. Clarke's "Hide and Seek". Secret agent K-15 is being pursued by a space cruiser. He lands on Phobos, a moon of Mars, and then avoids the cruiser simply by walking around Phobos; although the cruiser can move much faster, it can't turn as quickly as a man on foot.

I don't think anybody who read that story believed that this pursuit ever happened. We know the Second Jovian War is complete fiction, and that no human has ever gone to Mars. But when Clarke mentions in the course of the story that Phobos has a diameter of about twenty kilometres and rotates every seven hours and thirty-nine minutes, and that the escape velocity is about ten metres per second... most readers are going to assume that these are the real numbers, and they would be right. Because Clarke is the sort of author who cares about that stuff, and that story was written in a genre where it would be as unthinkable to fake those numbers as it would be for Agatha Christie to write a mystery that never gets solved.

Similarly, if I'm reading "Hunt for Red October" or "Pride and Prejudice", I know that Lizzie Bennett and the Red October aren't real. But I tend to assume that Tom Clancy's presentation of the military chain of command is accurate, and likewise Jane Austen's presentation of 19th-century upper-middle-class social norms.

These expectations vary widely from genre to genre and author to author. But almost all authors are interested in human nature, and try to present it as they understand it, and it's easy for readers to be influenced by that even when it appears in a fictional context.

So I try to be careful about that side of my writing. That's definitely not a blanket "I only write nice people who are nice to one another"; I like a good villain as much as anybody. It's more the little, insidious stuff where I feel the need to police myself.

For example, I don't see "woman ravished by burglar" fiction as particularly problematic. Everybody understands that this is bad IRL, and there's little risk of anybody missing the distinction between reality and fantasy.

But there are plenty of other areas where people don't share an understanding of what counts as "consent". There are thousands, probably millions of RL rapists who live with themselves by massaging the definition of "rape" to make excuses for their actions. I don't want to support that kind of mindset, even through fiction. If I'm writing in one of those areas - guy has sex with drunk woman, professor has sex with grad student, etc. etc. - then I want to be sure my readers know this is Not Okay.

(And when I'm writing consensual sex, I try to model that too - people talk to one another, occasionally somebody says "I'm not comfortable doing this right now" and the other person respects that, etc. etc.)

gah, this is less coherent than I'd like, but I really need to get on with other stuff so I'm just going to hit post. TLDR I think "trust readers to distinguish between fantasy and reality" is viable for some things but insufficient for others; writing is complex.

I call this simply, not true but "true to life"

 

[latecomer91364]

As to the OP

What are we really talking about here? Non-consent is by definition, some kind of rape, is it not? If you'e talking about role playing, that would still include consent.

What I'd like to see is that non-consent stories have their own category, so it would be extremely difficult for me to stumble upon one.

NO freaking rape, thank you.

 

[hylas_]

^ non-con does have its own cathegory, what are you talking about?

 

[latecomer91364]

You're right

^ non-con does have its own cathegory, what are you talking about?

Oops.. I never looked there, and still won't.

 

[Gotham_Central]

Non-consent is by definition, some kind of rape, is it not?

True non-consensual activity, absolutely. It's a crime for a reason!

Non-Consent, more correctly termed Consensual Non-Consent, is just what you said, tole playing. Just a very specific kind, that requires trust and a comfort level not necessarily needed for "the bishop and the wanton nun".

 

[CyranoJ]

Oops.. I never looked there, and still won't.

Good for you. May I politely suggest that if the topic doesn't interest you, you don't have to be in this thread either.

 

[robertreams]

Gotham. Perhaps you could explain. Do you have an esoteric meaning for "non-consent" other than its obvious meaning in the English language. We used to do, and be expected to do, this little thing called seduction. I understand that at some point the "victim" has to, pick one: enjoy, accept, embrace the concept of being "taken" because in the fantasy that is what he, (she) really wants. For me there is no need for anyone to be humiliated, that turns me off. The idea of non-consent, for me at least, is that the power of the dominant one, overcomes the inhibitions of the "victim", often showing him or her the joy of total surrender. In real life, this person, the one who eventually yields, might very well see this as a liberating experience, since they can now be "not responsible.

I dated a girl who would screw me every day, but only in the car. She also never made the first move. Tho we fucked more than a dozen times, she would not come to my place, nor get a room. Again, after much thought, I concluded that a hotel room would have been pre-meditation, but in the car, she need only yield to my advances.

 

[Gotham_Central]

You are correct. Words mean things; sometimes context dependent, sometimes not.

The Lit Category uses the term Non-Consent, so I did as well. More correctly stated, the term is Consensual Non-Consent, or -much less common due to knee jerk reactions- rape play. It should be noted that Lit's category includes an even broader spectrum of "raped but enjoyed it" which I cannot support.

Consensual Non-Consent (CANC) is, at its roots, role play. Party A has a unconventional fantasy and a desire to live it out. Party A knows/learns of Party B who they feel can sell their fantasy. A and B talk, if B is smart documentation of consent and desire for rough sex is secured; safe calls are made; scenes are set; fantasies are fulfilled.

What you describe, the GF "having no choice" could be a form of CNC. I'm not sure either way. I have known several subs who in submission could do things that they truly wanted to do, except... Good Girls Don't! But in a collar. They had no choice. They were forced. They had to do it. I knew a sub once, part of a private group to which I belonged, whose vanilla husband had no idea what he was missing out on. She was a self confessed "up tight, prudish bitch" day to day; missionary position, lights out, windows closed, don't you dare think of putting that thing anywhere but my lady parts". But put her in a collar... Slut... Wanton, smouldering slut.

That said, the CNC I am asking about is, frankly, consensual rape fantasies and rape play.

 

[PervOtaku]

The Lit Category uses the term Non-Consent, so I did as well. More correctly stated, the term is Consensual Non-Consent, or -much less common due to knee jerk reactions- rape play.

Non-consent and consensual non-consent are totally different things. Please don't say non-consent if you mean consensual non-consent. You'll just confuse people and cause problems.

It should be noted that Lit's category includes an even broader spectrum of "raped but enjoyed it" which I cannot support.

That's pretty much Lit's compromise to those who like stories with rape themes but keeping out any stories that overtly glorify rape and abuse of women. And it's okay if you don't like those.

I would imagine that lots of people that enjoy CNC (but never NC) in real life nonetheless enjoy fiction with true NC. And lots of people don't like stories with any kind of NC or CNC or anything of the sort. And that's okay.

 

[Randy_Scribbler]

For those of you who are fans of the genre, what do you look for in a story? What are the "must have" elements? What makes it a story you'll come back to time and again? And possibly more important, what ruins it for you?

I love a gross guy getting off with a hot girl. A girl that wouldn't be seen dead with the man in any other circumstance, but is forced into sex by means of blackmail. It gives the scenario that extra sense of taboo that I thrive on.

What ruins it is the victim enjoying it to the point that they have multiple orgasms. Takes all plausibility away from the story. And of course those stories that are rife with errors. I've read some amazing stories that have been blighted by a myriad of grammar and punctuation errors. Makes me wonna iron out all the errors and resubmit it in proper English.

 

[PapaPalpatine]

For those of you who are fans of the genre, what do you look for in a story?

Well written and stays close to the level of consent Gromet's Plaza designates "reluctant." As perverted as I am, even I hesitate to read/write stuff that gets a little too rapey.

What are the "must have" elements?

The villain should be both menacing and sexy, the heroine should be as much of an innocent as possible without making her a Pollyanna or a dimwit.

What makes it a story you'll come back to time and again?

I'm a fan of the Bathe Her and Bring Her to Me trope (see here), so any story that includes it and handles it well will definitely be given a spot in my favorites.

And possibly more important, what ruins it for you?

Please don't try to shoehorn love into the story. Hell, avoid even using the word in the text of the story if possible. Subtly hinting that the two might develop feelings for each other might be tolerable, just don't push it.

 

[dondd]

I like reality. Practical, preferably married and faithful, wives and mothers forced to deal with a situation that they would have avoided if they could.

For example, over many thousands of years such women have been captured in war, abducted or blackmailed and forced to become the sexual partners of other men, They feel fear, they lose their families, sometimes but not always, for ever. Often they are physically abused-but in reality(as opposed to fantasy) there's little point in physically injuring a beautiful captive to the extent that she is no longer attractive. Sometimes they have been forced to provide sex to groups of men and women, not infrequently in brothels.

Their initial sexual experiences are often unpleasant but, being practical they realize that their lives will be substantially more comfortable if they learn to make the best of what has happened. So they learn the skills necessary to get the best possible outcome for themselves. In many hundreds of thousands of cases such women have simply recognized the inevitability of their situation and eventually settled down to become wives and mothers with a new partner.

Yes, even more interesting might be when the woman is an innocent, virginal religious woman, who has to learn how to accept her conquerers.
Over time, she gets use to her position & finds she enjoys the thrusts of her men deep into her pussy (with no condom to protect her from his seed).
She begins to engage in extended periods of foreplay, caressing & sucking on them before taking their cocks.
She wraps her arms & legs around them as they pound her.

 

[dondd]

Originally Posted by Gotham_Central
For those of you who are fans of the genre, what do you look for in a story? What are the "must have" elements? What makes it a story you'll come back to time and again? And possibly more important, what ruins it for you?

For me I enjoy reading how the girl keeps saying "no, no, please don't, no Sir, please don't, please" while when the man fingers her she is soaking wet conveying that while she is saying "no" her brain and body simultaneously betray her by soaking her Pussy readying her for Dick.

Yes, particularly if she's an innocent virgin, and all he's doing goes against her morality & religion.
"...I've never done this kind of thing before..." she tells him.
Resigned to acceptance, she states this:
"...Please go in gently..."

She really wants his penis in her, despite her religious convictions.

 

[PhilippaMaQuente]

Interesting discussion going on here...

I've read a good chunk of this thread, and must say, great discussions on all fronts. I see many people I would love to get to know taking part. That said, to answer the original question...

Initially when I came to Literotica I hadn't intended on posting the story that has since garnered me the most attention. It is a heavily non-consent story that I actually wonder how I ever got published considering the darkness of my material. But I digress, slightly. I am looking for decently well written stories that explore the characters as people and can present my strongest kinks in a way that is both titillating but responsible. I hate the perpetuation of overwrought clichés, sexual myths like the hymen being an intact barrier, and 'heroes' with dark secrets redeemed by the love of 'pure' women. I write to combat the subtle, rape-culture perpetuating romance formulae that are so, so common, even outside of the erotic genre (one of my very specific pet peeves is the 'abduction romance').

Sexually, the kind of content I like includes bondage, sensation play, Domination, humiliation (to a point), control, public display, etc. I don't care for use of fecal matter (though if that floats your boat, more power to you), I don't want damsels in distress, and I don't enjoy endless repetition of the same kinds of sex scenes and the same descriptors, phrases, vocabulary or plotlines. And I NEED character development. I must have characters who change and grow over time and who LEARN something by the story's end. To that tune, I also feel that we who indulge in non-consent or rape erotica must present and consume the material with as much responsibility as possible. My current Non-Consent story is being written with the express purpose of combatting the common tropes that disguise rape as romance in so many stories (whether it's the direct disregard for a verbal "no" a la Christian Grey, or the rom-com staple of pretending to be something/someone you're not to land a partner). It's so common. I see it constantly, and I am confronting it. This is speaking as someone with an intense fetish for rape and submission. Because I understand the divide between consensual sex and rape so intimately, I MUST write stories that confront the difference. I feel I have no other choice. I also will not read nor support the work of writers who sugarcoat that difference.

At the reading of this thread, though, I acknowledge that I am writing a pretty hardcore version of "Non-Consent", yet one that very clearly outlines active, healthy consent and will not sell its heroine short by having her succumb to the whims of her abductors.

 

[Soma99]

As far as what the category really is it should be pointed out that the actually term on Literotica is "Nonconsentual/ Reluctance"

Reluctance can be very different.

 

[Gotham_Central]

As far as what the category really is it should be pointed out that the actually term on Literotica is "Nonconsentual/ Reluctance"

Reluctance can be very different.

While you are 100% correct, the category name is, I have found, inappropriate with respect to the lingo used by those into the form of play.

 

[AngelaSaxon]

Obviously there are some pretty popular writers on Literotica who write stories in which rape takes place and there is no suggestion that the person in any way consents or indeed in any way enjoys.

What I find bizarre is that there is a norm here, at least in theory, in which someone like Ashson is considered somehow the more acceptable version of a rape story because his victims ALWAYS end up loving it and actively participating.

So apparently the ethical position is to write your rape stories to directly validate precisely one of the primary rape-justifying mythologies actively deployed by actual real-world rapists.

I think this is bizarre, and utterly the reverse of actual ethics.

For that reason, and for the reason of my actual kinks, in fiction I prefer my nonconsent stories to be actual nonconsent stories, not reluctance-becomes-consent, not nonconsent-becomes-loves-it, not woman-learns-to-love-being-submissive, not any version of sub-dom stuff.

If those are your kinks, fine.

But if you think those stories are more ethical than ones in which the victim doesn't come to love it, or consent, then I think you have a notion of ethics that is the exact opposite of anything defensible.

And since I have these tastes - and against what people here keep implying for some reason - I have no need to go anywhere else at all to find stories just like what I want.

They are EVERYWHERE here.

Why are people pretending this is not the case?

They aren't hidden in some odd corner.

They aren't stories no-one reads.

They aren't obscure writers.

Are we in some strange world in which we have to pretend none of that is true for some reason?

 

[Gotham_Central]

There are, I am told, guidelines established by the Lit management around Non-Consent. Though, I can see where those are getting lax.

 

[sr71plt]

I think it's the Lit. submission guidelines for nonconsent that are making the stories unbelievable for AngelaSaxon. Lit. wants the nonconsenter to decide to have liked it/wanted it all along.

 

[PhilippaMaQuente]

What I find bizarre is that there is a norm here, at least in theory, in which someone like Ashson is considered somehow the more acceptable version of a rape story because his victims ALWAYS end up loving it and actively participating.

So apparently the ethical position is to write your rape stories to directly validate precisely one of the primary rape-justifying mythologies actively deployed by actual real-world rapists.

THIS! THIS THIS THIS RIGHT HERE!

I am so SICK TO DEATH of stories where the victim eventually grows to love their rapist/captor and just forget that everything that's been done to them is rape! I think the idea behind it is that people with this kink, or who like this kind of story, must 'justify' it by having it end happily. This isn't unique to 'non-consent' erotica either (or even dark erotica!). Fifty Shades of Grey does it. I could name at least a dozen popular mainstream erotica authors who have "abduction romance" storylines in which men abduct womem from their homes/lives/planets for "good" reasons and wind up 'seducing' them in captivity, or mating them because they're 'destined'. I've read romance novels from the seventies where the heroines are raped over and over and OVER again by dozens of men, and they STILL fall in love with the (original) rapist. I've seen rom coms where deceit, stalking, coercion and obsessive behavior are all considered 'romance'. THIS IS AT LEAST PART WHY we live in a rape culture! We reinforce the idea of rape as romance in our stories, constantly! We've made sexual harassment a compliment!

As someone with a VERY strong, inherent non-consent kink, this drives me crazy, because culturally we have forgotten how insidious and subtle rape can be. When it's normalized like this and made 'romance', how can we possibly fight it? THIS IS WHY I WRITE.

 

[PhilippaMaQuente]

I think it's the Lit. submission guidelines for nonconsent that are making the stories unbelievable for AngelaSaxon. Lit. wants the nonconsenter to decide to have liked it/wanted it all along.

You are on the money, and I find that extremely problematic exactly because forcing a happy ending or implying that it was wanted/'consensual' all along does nothing but reinforce that rape isn't a big deal, and can be acceptable under certain circumstances.

 

[Gotham_Central]

Where I struggle is in the role if the fiction. I have engaged in CNC play and in every circumstance my partner wanted, expected, me to help her suspend her disbelief, do to speak. They wanted to believe, or at least imagine, that they were being violently taken by a stranger.the last thing they wanted from me was romance.

I have to believe that readers of Non-Consent/reluctance stories want something similar in the stories the read. That belief lead to thus thread, the responses to which have lead me to find another venue through which I can offer my stories.