On identity politics or why can't we just agree to being weirdos

[graceanne]

Commentary isn't the same as employment discrimination. I don't care what people think, though I prefer they keep it to themselves, just as I would about them. I don't walk up to repulsive straight people with repulsive hordes of smeary children and tell them I think they're trash and should try BC. But the courtesy isn't extended in my direction..

The courtesy isn't passed on to the mom, either. I guarantee someone's said something snotty.

When I pulled out my back, me and K had to run up to the store to get some stuff. My back was killing me, D was being a pain in the butt, and K was getting impatient. A lady said to me, in line, 'I just want you to know that you and your children have ruined my day' or something to that affect. I just bared my teeth and said 'Oh, but you're just lightened mine up, sunshine.'

 

[Netzach]

The courtesy isn't passed on to the mom, either. I guarantee someone's said something snotty.

When I pulled out my back, me and K had to run up to the store to get some stuff. My back was killing me, D was being a pain in the butt, and K was getting impatient. A lady said to me, in line, 'I just want you to know that you and your children have ruined my day' or something to that affect. I just bared my teeth and said 'Oh, but you're just lightened mine up, sunshine.'

I realize there are some moments sans class that everyone's subjected to. I just can't fathom going with every anti-social impulse to the extent that freaked out "normal" people do with people who are different.

Still I've never been informed that M and I were going to burn in hell while eating at an outdoor cafe. I've never been stared down, ogled, felt like I couldn't hold his hand, had to worry about being beaten going to our car - the list goes on. People felt very free to share their opinions with me and my gf when I was dating her in a way that I never could have imagined. And it's not like we were humping one another everywhere we went! There was nothing I did with her that was unusual or exceptional or outside the bell curve of normal romantic/date stuff in NYC in public.

I want to live in an open society. Not necessarily one where everyone's in everyone's business and everyone's fucking in the street and there are NO conversational taboos, but I'd like for people to be able to identify one another, to find one another without having to rely on the fucking INTERNET for it all the time to retain total anonymity -- without dire negative consequence for sexually - not being a certain way.

 

[subbie_333]

The courtesy isn't passed on to the mom, either. I guarantee someone's said something snotty.

When I pulled out my back, me and K had to run up to the store to get some stuff. My back was killing me, D was being a pain in the butt, and K was getting impatient. A lady said to me, in line, 'I just want you to know that you and your children have ruined my day' or something to that affect. I just bared my teeth and said 'Oh, but you're just lightened mine up, sunshine.'

If that ruined her day, she needs to get out more

 

[Netzach]

If that ruined her day, she needs to get out more

Seriously. Someone who needs a monthlong vacation to Darfur or something.

 

[subbie_333]

People felt very free to share their opinions with me and my gf when I was dating her in a way that I never could have imagined. And it's not like we were humping one another everywhere we went! There was nothing I did with her that was unusual or exceptional or outside the bell curve of normal romantic/date stuff in NYC in public.

i think lesbian couples are cute, and, i like to watch them. But, then, i like women. Maybe the guys that harassed you have that latent homosexual tendencies thingie going on. The women that harassed you? i'm not sure what their problem would be.

 

[graceanne]

If that ruined her day, she needs to get out more

Oh, pretty much. They weren't being that bad, and K hadn't yelled. Just a lot of 'i won't get you this or that or this or that' arguments. But she's not the first one who's said stuff like that to me. My son is severely ADHD (to the point of being mildly developmentally delayed), and I get a lot of know it all, perfect parents, who know more than all the experts in the world who tell me that their's nothing wrong with him, I'm just a lousy parent (word for word). I've had people yell at me from cars 'TAKE PARENTING CLASSES', I've had child services called on me over and over. (They don't even bother coming by anymore, they know that I'm doing all I can and I'm not abusing my child.) I've had people walk up to me in walmart and say 'YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PARENT', I've had people say to me 'your children are awful' (i still dont' know what that guys problem was, they were talking quietly and coloring - I guess he didn't think they should talk). I've lost track of the number of people who feel the urge to comment on my parenting, but I've gotten from telling them to fuck off to making sunshine comments to them.

And that's not including the people who glare at me. They glare if my son isn't on his leash, and I'm struggling to keep him from running off, and they glare if he's on his leash. They glare when I pull him from trees, and when he's freaking out cause I'm making him hold my hand in the parking lot (and he wants to run). They glare when he gets overwhelmed and has a melt down (common problem with children who're as ADHD as him). My neighbors glare when they realize he's awake at 11 (i would LOVE to get him to sleep at 9, but sometimes he can't relax and it takes several hours). People ask me stuff like 'forget the birth control' and tell me 'better you than me'. You're right, IT IS BETTER ME THAN YOU. I wouldn't curse my son with any other parents, because he's the kind of child who gets abused. I thank god that I was gifted with my little ray of sunshine, even when I'm exhausted. Their is no child that's more giving or loving or bright. He just needs extra care. I consider it a fair trade.

 

[Netzach]

Oh, pretty much. They weren't being that bad, and K hadn't yelled. Just a lot of 'i won't get you this or that or this or that' arguments. But she's not the first one who's said stuff like that to me. My son is severely ADHD (to the point of being mildly developmentally delayed), and I get a lot of know it all, perfect parents, who know more than all the experts in the world who tell me that their's nothing wrong with him, I'm just a lousy parent (word for word). I've had people yell at me from cars 'TAKE PARENTING CLASSES', I've had child services called on me over and over. (They don't even bother coming by anymore, they know that I'm doing all I can and I'm not abusing my child.) I've had people walk up to me in walmart and say 'YOU ARE A HORRIBLE PARENT', I've had people say to me 'your children are awful' (i still dont' know what that guys problem was, they were talking quietly and coloring - I guess he didn't think they should talk). I've lost track of the number of people who feel the urge to comment on my parenting, but I've gotten from telling them to fuck off to making sunshine comments to them.

And that's not including the people who glare at me. They glare if my son isn't on his leash, and I'm struggling to keep him from running off, and they glare if he's on his leash. They glare when I pull him from trees, and when he's freaking out cause I'm making him hold my hand in the parking lot (and he wants to run). They glare when he gets overwhelmed and has a melt down (common problem with children who're as ADHD as him). My neighbors glare when they realize he's awake at 11 (i would LOVE to get him to sleep at 9, but sometimes he can't relax and it takes several hours). People ask me stuff like 'forget the birth control' and tell me 'better you than me'. You're right, IT IS BETTER ME THAN YOU. I wouldn't curse my son with any other parents, because he's the kind of child who gets abused. I thank god that I was gifted with my little ray of sunshine, even when I'm exhausted. Their is no child that's more giving or loving or bright. He just needs extra care. I consider it a fair trade.

This whole culture is pretty fundamentally anti woman and anti kid with a huge dose of stick your face in and comment on other people's shit, go ahead, make yourself feel better.

I hear a lot of these stories in the vanilla boards I'm on - it always astounds me what people will do and say. I may not have the nicest things to *think* about screaming kids, but I also have feet and a moveable ass.

 

[graceanne]

This whole culture is pretty fundamentally anti woman and anti kid with a huge dose of stick your face in and comment on other people's shit, go ahead, make yourself feel better.

I hear a lot of these stories in the vanilla boards I'm on - it always astounds me what people will do and say. I may not have the nicest things to *think* about screaming kids, but I also have feet and a moveable ass.

Yeah, I've been known to tell people that if my kids are bugging them so bad that they know where the door is. Don't let it hit them in the ass on the way out.

I could go on another rant about our anti-child society, but I won't. I was mostly making a point that even us hetero, married women have to deal with opinionated assholes. No matter what you do, or where you go, someone will disapprove of what you do or say. I've learned to ignore the opinions of people who don't matter. My son's doctor, his counselor, and his teacher say I'm an awesome mother and that I do everything that I can. My husband and my mom and my sister and my cousins and grandparents marvel at my patience with him (my son). My daughters are well behaved, wonderful children who are WAY ahead of grade level. If I was a bad parent, they'd all be bad. And my son, who was A YEAR AND A HALF behind his peers when I first got the ball rolling for his schooling, will be starting school on time. I don't care what rude people think, because I don't want to be like them and I don't' want my children to be like them. I know I'm a good mom.

Know what amazed me? The woman who leaned out her car window, burning cigarette in hand, and told me I was a lousy mom. I said 'blow some more smoke in your kids face, supermom' and drove off. (That time, D had got his seat belt off and turned around to beam his sister with something.) People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[subbie_333]

Yeah, I've been known to tell people that if my kids are bugging them so bad that they know where the door is. Don't let it hit them in the ass on the way out.

Here's an idea. Make up some index cards to hand to those people when they make a comment or stare. It will distract them, shut them up for a couple of minutes, and, provide some time for you to plot your next move. The card could say something like:

I really appreciate your concern for my child and my parenting skills. Since he suffers from ADHD, sometimes we are not able to conduct ourselves in public in a manner that I would prefer. I am always looking for those who can help us out, and, if you want to help, please choose one or more of the following items:

A. Babysit him for just 2 hours so that I can get some sleep
B. Give me some money to pay for his medical bills
C. Explain to the other ignorant people around us that I am a good parent
D. Learn more about ADHD so that you can empathize with me
E. Go to medical school and find a cure for ADHD - by tomorrow
F. If you still feel like you can't or don't want to help, please enjoy the rest of your day by fornicating with your ignorant self

HAVE A BLESSED DAY!

 

[Homburg]

You're right, IT IS BETTER ME THAN YOU. I wouldn't curse my son with any other parents, because he's the kind of child who gets abused. I thank god that I was gifted with my little ray of sunshine, even when I'm exhausted. Their is no child that's more giving or loving or bright. He just needs extra care. I consider it a fair trade.

You kick ass, graceanne. Just in case you'd forgotten that recently.

My kids are good, really good. We're always getting comments about how well-mannered they are, and all that. I gripe about them being hooligans, but they usually save it for when they're at home. That said, your kid can be perfect 99% of the time. The second little Johnny steps out of line, people will hate on you.

Anti-kid does describe much of society today. I can't tell you how many places I will not go because, no matter how good my kids are, people will be rude to us simply because we brought kids.

 

[intothewoods]

I realize there are some moments sans class that everyone's subjected to. I just can't fathom going with every anti-social impulse to the extent that freaked out "normal" people do with people who are different.

Still I've never been informed that M and I were going to burn in hell while eating at an outdoor cafe. I've never been stared down, ogled, felt like I couldn't hold his hand, had to worry about being beaten going to our car - the list goes on. People felt very free to share their opinions with me and my gf when I was dating her in a way that I never could have imagined. And it's not like we were humping one another everywhere we went! There was nothing I did with her that was unusual or exceptional or outside the bell curve of normal romantic/date stuff in NYC in public.

I want to live in an open society. Not necessarily one where everyone's in everyone's business and everyone's fucking in the street and there are NO conversational taboos, but I'd like for people to be able to identify one another, to find one another without having to rely on the fucking INTERNET for it all the time to retain total anonymity -- without dire negative consequence for sexually - not being a certain way.

Damn. San Francisco?

I really have led a sheltered life. That shit just does not happen. There are subtle and overt forms of discrimination, but nothing like that.

 

[EmpressFi]

Breaking it down into single components:
1. He took his bedroom activities out of the private and into the public domain. Live Journal is not a private diary. BDSM Talk is not a private club. He was performing on a world stage; worse, a world stage that is permanently archived somewhere, probably multiple somewheres. Internet is forever.

2. He wasn't demoted for his sexual activity, he was demoted because of his unstable behavior - multiple suicide attempts and stalking. You used stalker in the present tense, so prolly continued unstable behavior. I don't think there's a soul alive that would try to argue stalking isn't crazy.

you're right, he was demoted because he was a piss-poor manager and wont be considered for advancement as long as the manager is afraid he'll hurt someone in anger.

Why would you give a crazy suicidal stalker blow by blow details about your sex life?

Because when I told him, I didnt know he was a crazy stalker. I'd found out, through his LJ that he and his wife were in a M/s relationship and after hours we were talking of that and being poly and for a while, he and I talked of a relationship... but thankfully I listened to my gut instinct and also my Master and my husband werent too keen on it. It's only been since telling him no, and having him continue to press, that I realized he is a stalker type person. And believe me, I wish he didnt know that I'm a submissive, because he tries to "tempt" me with IM's related to that.

How does your supervisor know when Malin takes vacations, why would she care if she does know?

My manager is also Malin's manager and she approves our vacations. It's a small company... right or wrong, she worries like a mother. So when she sees him go off for a week and then a month later, I take a long weekend. She worries that one of us is cheating on the other. Since we work together, she doesnt want drama in the workplace any more than people like drama here.

 

[intothewoods]

you're right, he was demoted because he was a piss-poor manager and wont be considered for advancement as long as the manager is afraid he'll hurt someone in anger.




Because when I told him, I didnt know he was a crazy stalker. I'd found out, through his LJ that he and his wife were in a M/s relationship and after hours we were talking of that and being poly and for a while, he and I talked of a relationship... but thankfully I listened to my gut instinct and also my Master and my husband werent too keen on it. It's only been since telling him no, and having him continue to press, that I realized he is a stalker type person. And believe me, I wish he didnt know that I'm a submissive, because he tries to "tempt" me with IM's related to that.

My manager is also Malin's manager and she approves our vacations. It's a small company... right or wrong, she worries like a mother. So when she sees him go off for a week and then a month later, I take a long weekend. She worries that one of us is cheating on the other. Since we work together, she doesnt want drama in the workplace any more than people like drama here.

Ooh, yeah, keep those work people out of your personal life. It's not that I disapprove. I just think it's safer that way. You just never know.

It's definitely a little weird your boss worries that you and your husband are cheating on each other! I mean, geesh, it's not her business!

 

[EmpressFi]

She's the office mom.. that's the only way I can describe it..well that and as Operations Manager, she wants to make sure neither of us is going to go ballistic on the other. We're a room full of computer geeks... we're always waiting for one of us to go postal.

 

[graceanne]

Here's an idea. Make up some index cards to hand to those people when they make a comment or stare. It will distract them, shut them up for a couple of minutes, and, provide some time for you to plot your next move. The card could say something like:

I really appreciate your concern for my child and my parenting skills. Since he suffers from ADHD, sometimes we are not able to conduct ourselves in public in a manner that I would prefer. I am always looking for those who can help us out, and, if you want to help, please choose one or more of the following items:

A. Babysit him for just 2 hours so that I can get some sleep
B. Give me some money to pay for his medical bills
C. Explain to the other ignorant people around us that I am a good parent
D. Learn more about ADHD so that you can empathize with me
E. Go to medical school and find a cure for ADHD - by tomorrow
F. If you still feel like you can't or don't want to help, please enjoy the rest of your day by fornicating with your ignorant self

HAVE A BLESSED DAY!

ROFLMAO I'm gonna do that. Serve the assholes right.

 

[graceanne]

You kick ass, graceanne. Just in case you'd forgotten that recently.

Well, I hadn't . . . but thank you.

My kids are good, really good. We're always getting comments about how well-mannered they are, and all that. I gripe about them being hooligans, but they usually save it for when they're at home. That said, your kid can be perfect 99% of the time. The second little Johnny steps out of line, people will hate on you.

Well, that and you can guarantee that that 1% they step out of line will be in public. Or at least with my kids - people are amazed at the difference between how D acts at home and elsewhere. He's very easily overwhelmed, so public situations make all of the worst of his symptoms come to forefront.

Anti-kid does describe much of society today. I can't tell you how many places I will not go because, no matter how good my kids are, people will be rude to us simply because we brought kids.

Amen. Know how I chose my car insurance agent? The only agent that had coloring books for my kids while I was filling out paper work. I was like 'SOLD!'