on line vs real

[BiBunny]

I wish! *waggles his eyebrows* Of course you might like it here...

I wish! And I KNOW I'd like it there.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Nah you're a big ol' puddy tat... it's that Yankee guy up there... he'd probably make me explain what a past participle is, without even giving me a Strunk & White or a Little, Brown Handbook.

*twitch*

*heheheh* For a punishment, for you, I might have you write a 3 page paper explaining why dangling participles are poor form, with examples, and better ways of expressing them. And diagram the examples with participles dangling and not dangling...

But I trust you would never do something that would ever warrant me wanting to punish you. I think you would rather be a good girl and get rewarded.

 

[Ice2000]

Well Marquis sense this is a subject that really fascinates you.. let me explain in more detail.

when I was a kid I had serious issues with Grammar and English... but my math and science skills were off the charts. my councillors thought I was playing games with them.. screwing with there heads. They said there was no way anyone could be so poor in language skills yet able to run trig formulas in there head. To make a long story short I have struggled with it all my life. much better after I got older but will still misspell mistype etc. Its a pain but the up side is my math and science skills made me reasonable wealthy in my twenties so if I really want to spell dominant correctly I can hire it done. I'm pretty secure with who I am and what I want in life.. so all is good.


Now.. you know my problem..lets talk about yours. For you to worry about how someone spells a word in an exchange of ideas seems to me to be a lack of confidence on your part. You can't argue the point so want to talk about Grammar? please:..NOT very impressive.. no matter how many french words you throw in Or maybe your just trying to show off a little? been there done that a lot when I was your age, so I understand.

now do you want to argue your position or enter a spelling Bee ?

 

[Ice2000]

I am a Boy Scout. Well I was back in the day. And a Scout leader as an adult. Not any more at this time but still, I was and I'm proud of it!



My redneck nickname was "Gee-off" since they couldn't quite grasp that anything spelled "Geoff" could be pronounced "Jeff"...

lol... I think you out grew the boy scout thing a few years back EG But it explains a little more about you and how you think. You seem to be a pretty level headed guy for someone projecting such a frightening image to the ladies.

Now how did I know you were a redneck?

 

[FurryFury]

Even when I was an English Major in college, I couldn't diagram a sentence to save my ass (I write well, I just can't tell you the mechanics behind it all...).

However -

A Dominant uses the art of the mind-fuck, to dominate his/her partner.

I'm not explaining things as a slam against anyone, as it is a common grammatical error, but there is a bit of an ongoing joke around here, along the lines of "You might be a redneck if..." with regards to dominate/dominant/HNGs.

LOL!

I made my daughter do that in seventh grade. I'm not sure she remembers all of it now. She will probably be an English major too.

Fury

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[TooTiredToLive]

BTW, watching Alpha Males verbally spar is amusing as hell...

Yes, it is... even for other Alpha Males.

 

[Marquis]

Well Marquis sense this is a subject that really fascinates you.. let me explain in more detail.

when I was a kid I had serious issues with Grammar and English... but my math and science skills were off the charts. my councillors thought I was playing games with them.. screwing with there heads. They said there was no way anyone could be so poor in language skills yet able to run trig formulas in there head. To make a long story short I have struggled with it all my life. much better after I got older but will still misspell mistype etc. Its a pain but the up side is my math and science skills made me reasonable wealthy in my twenties so if I really want to spell dominant correctly I can hire it done. I'm pretty secure with who I am and what I want in life.. so all is good.


Now.. you know my problem..lets talk about yours. For you to worry about how someone spells a word in an exchange of ideas seems to me to be a lack of confidence on your part. You can't argue the point so want to talk about Grammar? please:..NOT very impressive.. no matter how many french words you throw in Or maybe your just trying to show off a little? been there done that a lot when I was your age, so I understand.

now do you want to argue your position or enter a spelling Bee ?

Hi Ice2000,

Pardon me, let me argue my position.

I think this is a really interesting question........

Gather the information you need, subtly. Make the necessary preparations, independently.

Here I stated my "position".

This is a subject that fascinates the heck out of me. I have tried to understand it with my sub partners that are married......

Wish I had better news.. but it is what it is.

This is where you stated yours. You came off as someone with something of an agenda, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Is it?

I do think it's difficult to fill both roles, as well, but for most of us in the lifestyle who hope to have fulfilling relationships, we do need both......

If the desire is mutual, I tend to believe that where there's a will there's a way.

Here I offered not a rebuttal, but a polite counterpoint.

Yes I truly believe it is Marquis. Oh there are lots of BDSM relationships that go vanilla.


But I have never heard of a long term vanilla going the other way. I'm not saying it is impossible, just saying it has to be very very rare.

Here's where you respond, not by contesting any of my logic, but rather merely assuring me that your experience is superior.

I get this a lot. A lot.

Hmmm.

So then here's my question:

If it was D/s, then went vanilla..... can you get it back?

I responded with a question of my own, a chance to get advice from someone with such experience.

If you are a dominate..

Checkmate.

Here's where I proclaimed our little match over.

Four moves, they call that Fool's Mate.

Oh Christ is that all....

my pilot is retired RAF.... with all the manors and training associated with a British officer. So you can imagine the shock to his system the first time he laid eyes on a real live redneck.

Here you attempted to dismiss my reason for questioning your experience, by misdirecting the locus of the argument to a question of bigotry.

In what was, of course, a total non-sequitur; you then mention your british pilot and loyal friends. It sounds like you have healthy self-esteem, which is nice, but qualifying yourself in that way is kinda like saying:

"This horse's fibula is broken in seven places. He'll never race again, we need to put him down. Trust me, I'm a geologist."

I guess it just goes to show that even people with fine manors can have poor manners.

Ha!

Here's where I made fun of you some more. The match was over before it began, I kept the prologue brief.

your getting better Marquis I guess I'm guilty of having both

You seem like a nice guy. A little arrogance is ok by me, if you can back it up.

Well, you're a good sport at least.

By the way, the dominant/dominate thing isn't about criticizing your grammar. A failure to master written English doesn't preclude you from other forms of mastery. It's just that, if you were an FBI agent, you'd know how to spell "bureau".

Even though it's one of those tricky French words with lots of vowels.

Here I used a metaphor to try and explain what you were missing. Like most of the guys who get the dominate/dominant thing wrong, you seemed to misinterpret why it brings your experience into question.

The issue is not your general ability at applying the correct suffix, it is the specific failure to do so with a term you would be extremely familiar with, if you had said experience.

Your handicap does not, I presume, cause you to misspell your name or your address. Correct?

To return to the post that I'm replying to for the first time;

The question here isn't your intelligence. If you'd like to show off your knowledge of non-Euclidean geometry, we can talk about denying the 5th postulate, believe me.

The question is whether or not you can defend your claim that people in vanilla relationships can't change, and so far you have failed.

Then you accuse me of showing off, because of my low self-confidence. I'll accept both of those criticisms. In fact, I do wonder if maybe the response I've written here is an example of the kind of shameless bullying often employed by those with low self-esteem.

But nothing I'm saying here is meant to be malicious or hurtful. Playful perhaps, but with good intentions.

I'm willing to bet that, disability and all, you're never going to misspell dominant again.

And one day, when you realize how much embarrassment that habit will save you, I hope you think warmly about the guy who took the time to break it down for you.

 

[wenchhh]

I really liked this advice, RJ. I think there are lots of wives who would respond positively to the bits you have suggested. I don't know if it'll work for this couple, but it is worth a try.
If she's ONLY done the online thing, than this should thrill her. Have a great day!

 

[RJMasters]

I am such a wimp.

My gut check reaction was "Oh sweet Lord... RED!" I can wrap my mind around the hottness of the idea, and can very much understand the whole teacher/student possibilities... but... *shudder*.

Leaning against the teacher's desk arms folded and holding a 3 ft long pointer stick...

You, jay butt naked in all your glory wearing 3 inch black high heels and forced to stand back from the eraser board so that reaching it would require a bent over position....

...and the only thing making your hand shake is the anticpation of hearing the word "freeze!" Knowing a mistake has been made.

Gives a whole new twist on the idea of applied learning don't-cha think? Yes indeedy.

 

[CutieMouse]

*****

 

[RJMasters]

Chuckles and heads off into the internet horizon knowing my job is done here.



A good day to you all.

~Rich

 

[Ice2000]

Excellent post Marquis, This clears up a lot for me. It is very good when you just say what you mean without all the BS word games. I expect if you just stated your position clearly you would be able to communicate with a much larger group of people. And not have to deal with the frustration your having "a lot…A LOT" of people not have a clue what your babbling about.

Now lets start with the points that we agree on and work from there.

You also seem like a nice guy. A little arrogance is ok by me too, actually I think it is a healthy. Now lets see how you can back your ideas up WITHOUT all the big words and metaphor.

I also hope you take my comments in a friendly way… without malicious or hurtful intent. I love debate and exchange of ideas. So let me put some ideas out here for you to ponder.

You ask for proof on my position with regard to the success rate of a vanilla converting to D/S. You’re a bright guy and know as well as I do that we have limited data at best, But I offer this information…

First I offer my own personal experience, you can discount it if you like but I think you will find as you get to know me better I’m a pretty credible. I’m 50 now, probably discovered I had a dominant personality in my late teens. Lots of relationships over the years. The majority was some form if D/s. Combined with my need to understand in depth what makes people, woman, specifically, sub’s think the way they do. I consider myself a reasonable source. But this is only my view so let’s discount my personal knowledge for now.

If we use the posts on Lit alone we know that its very common for a person to be in a vanilla relationship, trying to find something else or asking if a partner can be converted.
We have one documented case of success out of how many attempts? Hundreds, thousands maybe? Lit itself is documented proof of my clam .

Last bit of proof I offer is ,, and I hope she don’t mind.. a PM from lostsavage's wife thinking me for my post, saying she was glad someone would say it like it is. Before you go exercising one of your other bad habits of speculation, let me say I don’t know the lady, and have had no communication with her before or after, only a thank you note.

So this is the information I base my position on and I stand by it. Show me proof I’m wrong.



Next let’s address your theory of, if you use something all the time you always spell it right. The answer to your question is no. I won’t say I’m the typical person with low language skills .. But I screw up the spelling of the most common words all the time. Let me give you a few examples. I do botch my address regularly. The street I live on is two words put together like Maplewood. I frequently write Maple Wood. I will also use Rd and not Ave as it should be.

Next the car I prefer is a Cadillac, I have owned 8 of them now and will still spell it with one L.

I use to have SeaRay docked in Tampa Bay with Twin Cat Diesels in it. I was so proud of that boat I couldn’t stand it but still can’t spell Caterpillar without a spell checker. You get the idea.. the list is big..

Anyway.. I didn’t misinterpret the point of your attack. I only elected to go on the offense rather than offering an answer. So I supplyed you with my answer now.


Now lets talk more about your need to speculate rather than focus on what is specifically said. I admire your skill with words but frankly all the games your playing to show off is causing you some communication problems.

question of bigotry? Because I present a situation where 2 very different cultures meet? Please Marquis, Try not to let your imagination run away with you, if your unclear about how I mean something please ask.

I talk pretty straight, and usually mean exactly what I say.. If you can do the same we might have the basis for a discussion.

I have stated what I think and give you the information I base my position on. I anxiously await facts from you that might dispute my position.

 

[wenchhh]

amusing isn't the word I'd use... a little scary (glad I'm not the one being sparred with) and a little exciting, I've had to change my panties 3 times!!! (blush)

 

[TooTiredToLive]

Damn you men.

Seriously.

I mean it.

You're mean. ALL of you. Mean mean mean.

*ducks*

Such a wonderful compliment! Thank you!

 

[TooTiredToLive]

amusing isn't the word I'd use... a little scary (glad I'm not the one being sparred with) and a little exciting, I've had to change my panties 3 times!!! (blush)

Only three? Marquis, RJM, Ice - you're falling down on the job.

 

[Ice2000]

Only three? Marquis, RJM, Ice - you're falling down on the job.

Shamefully I have to admit while Marquis and I are burning time jerking each other off RJ and EG are having fun playing with the ladies...

whats wrong with this picture?

did I spell everything correctly Marquis?

 

[wenchhh]

You said, "

Shamefully I have to admit while Marquis and I are burning time jerking each other off RJ and EG are having fun playing with the ladies...

whats wrong with this picture?

did I spell everything correctly Marquis?

now THAT is something I wanna see, can I watch can I watch???? whooo hooo!

 

[Evil_Geoff]

You said, "



now THAT is something I wanna see, can I watch can I watch???? whooo hooo!

Absolutely... I'm an exhibitionist! And I hope you are too because you're right after Cutie! *WEG*

 

[wenchhh]

Absolutely... I'm an exhibitionist! And I hope you are too because you're right after Cutie! *WEG*

GULP..... oh crap... I think I just wet these panties, again. the big question is.... from fear, or excitement!!!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Combined with my need to understand in depth what makes people, woman, specifically, sub’s think the way they do. I consider myself a reasonable source. But this is only my view so let’s discount my personal knowledge for now.

Now this is an interesting claim given most people, sub's included have no concrete theory on why they think the way they do, but learn to accept it and run with the outcomes. I am always suspicious of any man who claims to know how a wopman thinks because from my almost 50 years experience, they usually haven't got a remote clue but will continue to tell women the only reason they disagree with their theory is because they are women and know no better, or worse, don't want to acknowledge the superitority of the male to know them better than they know themselves. Invariably, I show these type of males the door and try not to let it hit them on their way out.

Last bit of proof I offer is ,, and I hope she don’t mind.. a PM from lostsavage's wife thinking me for my post, saying she was glad someone would say it like it is. Before you go exercising one of your other bad habits of speculation, let me say I don’t know the lady, and have had no communication with her before or after, only a thank you note.

So this is the information I base my position on and I stand by it. Show me proof I’m wrong.

Now, for someone claimng to know a woman's and a sub's mind, this statement astounds me. Why wouldn't she PM you and thank you for supposedly saying it like it is. She has her husband publicly asking for help in making her see him as a Dominant etc., and as such will likely feel more than a little slighted, possibly hurt, possibly shamed or humiliated, maybe even a little put down or alienated by her own partner who so willingly points out he has no such difficulties so why should she, so any male (or often person for that matter) who comes along and says something which is going to give her some leverage as to why she is failing in the eyes of her D (not necessarily in the eyes of others mind you) is going to be her heroe. That doesn't prove what you have said is spot on, just that is either her experience is limited to what yours seems to have relied on for fact, or she sees an ally when she feels she needs one most (and I don't blame her for feeling that way), or it provides her with more backup to argue her own point privately and so is welcome whether it is correct or not. It is quite common behaviour for most people when under attack of any sort, especially on an intimate or personal level, to reach out and grab any support they see offered. Unfortunately it is also a habit of many a Dom who feels a little insecure about his own skills to keep an eye out for such subs and rush to their defence, often in the hope they will reap the spoils for themselvces....that has happened often on this board, with unfortunately more often than not, unhappy outcomes for the sub who falls prey to the well disguised predator.

Catalina

 

[Ice2000]

Now this is an interesting claim given most people, sub's included have no concrete theory on why they think the way they do, but learn to accept it and run with the outcomes. I am always suspicious of any man who claims to know how a wopman thinks because from my almost 50 years experience, they usually haven't got a remote clue but will continue to tell women the only reason they disagree with their theory is because they are women and know no better, or worse, don't want to acknowledge the superitority of the male to know them better than they know themselves. Invariably, I show these type of males the door and try not to let it hit them on their way out.

Catalina

Catalina, I think you need to focus on what I said, not your revision of what you think I said. Allow me to clarify..

I quote.."Combined with my need to understand in depth what makes people, woman, specifically, sub’s think the way they do."

I said I have a need to understand, this means I have spend a lot of time pondering the question. I made no clam beyond that point other than I have put a lot of effort into the task. I think making that effort puts me ahead of most on the subject but I surely make no clams to being an expert, only that the subject fascinates me to no end, like a puzzle that that can't be solved.

I also stated my spicific intrest is submissive women. Its my personal feeling that submissive men behave in a similar manor for similar reasons but I really have no idea nor do I care.

now trying to twist my words into some kind of slam on a women is really out there doll. I have a few women in my life right now and I can safely say all of them are more intelligent than myself.

You really got in left field on this post Cat. I have you peged as a romantic, and I know you don't care fo my hardass approach but lets at lease keep our differences clearly defined and correct

Now, for someone claimng to know a woman's and a sub's mind, this statement astounds me. Why wouldn't she PM you and thank you for supposedly saying it like it is. She has her husband publicly asking for help in making her see him as a Dominant etc., and as such will likely feel more than a little slighted, possibly hurt, possibly shamed or humiliated, maybe even a little put down or alienated by her own partner who so willingly points out he has no such difficulties so why should she, so any male (or often person for that matter) who comes along and says something which is going to give her some leverage as to why she is failing in the eyes of her D (not necessarily in the eyes of others mind you) is going to be her heroe. That doesn't prove what you have said is spot on, just that is either her experience is limited to what yours seems to have relied on for fact, or she sees an ally when she feels she needs one most (and I don't blame her for feeling that way), or it provides her with more backup to argue her own point privately and so is welcome whether it is correct or not. It is quite common behaviour for most people when under attack of any sort, especially on an intimate or personal level, to reach out and grab any support they see offered. Unfortunately it is also a habit of many a Dom who feels a little insecure about his own skills to keep an eye out for such subs and rush to their defence, often in the hope they will reap the spoils for themselvces....that has happened often on this board, with unfortunately more often than not, unhappy outcomes for the sub who falls prey to the well disguised predator.

Catalina

I'll let her note speak for itself and stand on its own merit. Your speculation on why she wrote it is as good as mine. I only mention it because I struck close to the truth in her mind at least. Which adds a bit of credibility to my efforts of attempting to understand the female sub thing.



To summarize your post Cat I think it was a gallant attempt to attack me as a Dom but you offer no argument to the debate which really got your blood flowing on vanilla moving to s/m.

 

[PrimalGirl]

OK...My Turn..

Ok, Ive remained silent in all this..NOW I will speak up and say my piece. I did send a PM to Ice..I liked what he had to say, and NO, he was not "RUSHING" to defend me or any other such thing. Im no "shrinking violet" or any thing like that at all. I take what I read w/ a grain of salt. Im not about to "fall prey" to anyone. Id like to think that I am SOMEWHAT intelligent . As far as me feeling like I was failing in the eyes of "MY D" NOPE, no such truth in that. The original person that I had started to have an online D/s relationship, failed in my eyes, so I CHOSE to move on. I just wanted to speak up, although I had chosen to remain in the background on this one, after reading that last post, I decided it was time for me to be heard. Sorry, not trying to stir up crap, BUT, Im not looking for a hero either. BTW, thanks for the many varied responses, it has been interesting (to say the least) to see the many ways suggested for my husband to "DOMINATE" me - LOL- PG