Ownership

[Netzach]

I never thought of codifying it. I'm spontaneous woman, I tend to just say "buck the fuck up, you white bread boomer bourgeois whiner" if he's feeling sorry for himself and I've deemed it without legitimacy.

 

[intothewoods]

Here's food for thought.

The degree of D/s in my relationship with my husband - outward, expressed dynamic, fluctuates. There are periods where he does fit the obedient property mold, there are periods where it's not about that at all. It's a shifting, organic, expanding and contracting thing in our relating to one another. There's nothing that says M/s or D/s has to be a linear progression in which rights are stripped bit by bit till you own your slave ta da - rather than a changing and fluctuating entity. Except some fiction, because linearity works in fiction, then it pretty much has to work that way all the time. And most people DO seek that linear movement - I think it's pretty appealing and makes a lot of sense. But it's not the only way to think of it.

I know I always post these things about your marriage that make me sound like a Netz groupie, but it just makes me feel so gosh darn validated!

To me, it feels entirely natural for it to progress in an organic way, and not a linear way. Because to me, the M/s dynamic isn't necessarily the prize at the end of the road. Or even D/s. I absolutely love shooting the shit about power and sex and relationships, otherwise I wouldn't be here, right? But on the other hand, sometimes I just feel like, fuck it, we're two people. Let it be.

Everything around me growing up led me to believe that marriage is the prize, the ultimate goal. Marriage and family. Discovering bdsm let me throw a bomb into that picture and think about what it is I really want. In some ways, that underlying sense in some parts of the bdsm world that M/s is the prize just replaces the old story (with the ending being marriage - have I taken that metaphor too far? ) with a new one. I don't think that having a goal in my mind, when it comes to relationships, works for me.

Sorry, don't mind me, I'm having an Oprah Aha moment over here...

 

[DeservingBitch]

Not that's it easy by any means, but it obviously brings her happiness and joy or she wouldn't bother.

My point exactly.

 

[GentleSub_Ivy]

Sorry, don't mind me, I'm having an Oprah Aha moment over here...

Aha! Me too.

I think linear/nonlinear and organic are great words to describe a different way of looking at M/s. The idea of not having a very specific goal (or an inflexible one) in mind with relationships is something I'm just starting to grapple with. It feels almost as if I'm breaking out of a mold I didn't realize I was in. It makes the journey of the relationship the prize instead of the end goal being some trophy we are supposed to win.

 

[Homburg]

I never saw M/s as the goal. Not my thing. In fact, I rather specifically said to her that I was avoiding it. Then again, as has been stated ad nauseum here, things change.

It was as much a realisation for me as it was for her.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I should probably mention that my beef with monogamy is bigger than just a question of sexuality. In other words, it's not merely in terms of sexuality/love that I find it limiting/restricting. But that is a topic for another time.

And yes, I can totally see that a lot of people are most happy in monogamous relationships and thrive in it. I'm not one of those. And yes, I also know some poly people who seem (at least for me) to basically merely reproduce the same monogamous relationship with multiple partners. Which to me defies the entire idea and purpose of poly. But hey - it's their life. That's not how I'm doing it, but really, it only matters to me and my partners how I do it.

Oh I realise you have a beef with monogamy that seems to overshadow you being able to look at these areas without bias and openly. I also agree it only matters to you and your partners how and what you do (same as it does for F & I), but what I am missing is why you keep associating monogamy with M/s as if the 2 are joined at the hip, especially where love is involved, despite hearing from some of us who have had others included in the mix. Homburg is headed in the direction of an M/s relationship with his love and long term partner and admits to not being monogamous. osg is in a M/s relationship where love is a factor and is not in a relationship where monogamy reigns. F and I are in a M/s relationship where love is involved and I have been shared and he intends to at some point also include female subs in our play. Fidelity OTOH I see as a different beast and probably more appropriate to see as part of all 3 of those relationships on some level.

We are all different because we all have different personalities and experiences. When I was 30 I was quite happy to still explore sexually with others, these days I feel as if I have arrived at a place where not only does it not hold much attraction in terms of regular relationships and interactions with others, but also given the health risks seems to be a little like playing russian roulette when I already have more than I ever dreamed possible in one person. And yes, I know about safer sex, but until AIDS was discovered and how it was contracted, people were also happily playing and not imagining such a disease was about to surface in our world and they were about to become the first statistics...the chances of that happening again with another STD is not all that out of the realm of possibility. If I was still 20, or 30, or even 40 at a push, I might feel differently, but weighing up my options and knowing I have never felt the depth and peace I now have within a relationship and always dreamed of having, I am not so ready to risk it on any level, nor do I feel the need.

These are life choices we all must make to suit our own world, our place in it, and the stage of our lives we are at. Sort of reminds me of someone recently who told me I must have anger issues to work through because she does...she is in her late 20's, I am 49....I have already dealt with the issues she is still approaching in her life and yet she feels I must also have because she has...we are at different points in our life, we are different people, just because she has not yet dealt with it does not mean everyone else on the planet has not...same thing to some extent.

Catalina

 

[DeservingBitch]

...but what I am missing is why you keep associating monogamy with M/s as if the 2 are joined at the hip, especially where love is involved, despite hearing from some of us who have had others included in the mix.

Good question. I think I was trying to articulate an answer to that question earlier in the thread, when responding to something that Homburg had written.

But let me try again. As I said, part of the reason for my being poly is that I found this framework to be more consistent with my ideas of love, which is anthetical with 'ownership' (i mean it here mostly in the 'mainstream' sense of the term, and not in the D/s or M/s sense). I've started being poly to get away from love that wants to 'possess', 'own', and 'consumme' the object of love. *ETA: yes, i do understand that it doesn't have to be the case in all monogamous relationships, and also understand that this is actually what makes some people happy.* Obviously, I'm aware that this can be very easily reproduce in a poly setting. I've been there. BUT, to me, it is easier to be consistent with my idea of love, with my desire and needs, when I am in a poly setting. Sure, I get my moments where i feel possessive of my partners/lovers, feel jealousy and whatnot. But being in a poly setting, it is easier for me to deal with those feelings -- which I find unhealthy to my own well-being and which goes against my values -- in a way that do not contradict who I am and who I strive to be.

What does it all have to do with M/s you ask. Well, when I started thinking about M/s and ownership, I couldn't help but feel/think that it goes against the choice I made to be poly, and against the reasons which brought me to make that choice. As in, if I don't want to 'own' my partner in the mainstream sense of the word, how can I justify to myself 'owning' someone in a D/s M/s sense? That is largely what I couldn't wrap my head around. But then, it occured to me at some point in the thread that I was mixing stuff in my head that don't necessarily need to be mixed together. In other words, if I put M/s and love together, because of my own ideas and values in terms of love, my head cannot make sense of it, *for myself*. BUT, if I take love out of the equation, then it starts to make sense, *for myself*.

Does that make sense?