Paragraphs and layout.

[MathGirl]

Re: Re: Re: Paras

ever hide something really odd in between to see if anyone would notice?

Dear SH,
That sounds like fun. I've gotta burp try that.
MG

 

[pop_54]

Hi

Can't add much but to say with reading from a computer screen it is essential that no one paragraph fills the screen top to bottom and or beyond.

Very few people can read a whole screen of text in one block without some form of visual reference point, ie: the top and bottom white bits between para's. (Nice to have one in the middle as well)

Shorter the better, but you can't always make sense of a story narrative by splitting paragraphs for the sake of it and making the whole thing jerky and confusing in another way.

I have some big para's in some tales, but none that extend out of the screen either end.

I also have some little para's in my dialogue only tales, often one single three letter word, but none bigger than 5 lines in those stories, but they were experimental so don't really count as serious tales.

I will soldier on if a story really takes my interest and try to read and enjoy it, but it is difficult if the para's are too big.

I press on with a lot of tales regardless of what some here would consider vile crimes against humanity, I'll even put up with a bit of bad grammar and a few typo's if the story is a good one.

pops..........

 

[Guest]

Hey Pops

I can't read any screen that has your AV on it; too distracting.

Don't dare change it.

- Little Perdita

 

[Alex756]

I'm guilty

OK after reading through this thread I had to go and check .... am I guilty ... the answer -- most definately yes.

Here is the kicker. My best rated story has the longest paragraphs. They are all relatively larger. Sure there is a short one here and there but the average seems to be about 8 lines, the longest I found on a quick count, 21. On the other hand, my lowest rated story doens't have a single paragraph over 7 lines. Four or five seems more average.

Now I am not beaing inconsiderate of people with worse computers than I have ... trust me few have something worse than this tempermental POS. 15" monitor set at 800X600 is what I type on And may I ad its a really bad 15" monitor. I don't think I have ever encounted a story with pragraphs impossible to read on a monitor, or even a story where the paragrahs were well done but too long. YES I have encounted poorly done paragraphs that are much longer than they should have been.

I think if the paragraph is right, then it is as long as it needs be. More or less would be wrong Also that one with the 21 line paragraph. I haven't gotten a single comment about it being hard to read, on the contrary its the one people say they 'had' to finish it. OK they bitch about the sex being way way far into it but ever a comment aount readability.

My useless input
The technology challanged
Alex756
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=177120

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: I'm guilty

OK after reading through this thread I had to go and check .... am I guilty ... the answer -- most definately yes.

Here is the kicker. My best rated story has the longest paragraphs. They are all relatively larger. Sure there is a short one here and there but the average seems to be about 8 lines, the longest I found on a quick count, 21. On the other hand, my lowest rated story doesn't have a single paragraph over 7 lines. Four or five seems more average.

The evidence doesn't support a guilty verdict.

Just as a rule of tumb, one computer screen holds 80 columns x 25 lines of text or the close equivalent in proportional fonts -- what would print at roughly 7.5 inches by 2.5 inches.

This is true of an 8 inch monitor or a 35 inch monitor at the 800x600 resolution that most web-pages are formatted to fit.

A 21 line paragraph in the format Lit uses is just under one screen of text and so NOT an overlong paragraph for reading online. It's very close to hitting that "longer than the window into the text" barrier, but not quite there.

From the rest of your description, it sounds like your stories are just about right as far as pargraph formatting is concerned.

Perdita,
Try View -> Text Size -> Larger (or Largest) on a Lit story -- I've found that Lit is one of the few places that responds properly to that function of IE5+.

 

[Guest]

Weird H.

Perdita,
Try View -> Text Size -> Larger (or Largest) on a Lit story -- I've found that Lit is one of the few places that responds properly to that function of IE5+.

Harold, thanks; but that's what I do. Other screens change but not Lit.'s. btw, I have state-of-the-art pc and lapdog thanks to my job.

But what is IE5+ ?

Perdita

 

[jon.hayworth]

Re: Weird H.

Harold, thanks; but that's what I do. Other screens change but not Lit.'s. btw, I have state-of-the-art pc and lapdog thanks to my job.

But what is IE5+ ?

Perdita

Perdita,

IE5+ means Internet Explorer 5, 5.5 or 6. Is Internet Explorer the browser installed on your state of the art PC and lapdog or do you have one of the other browsers. I ask because I use IE 6 and the VIEW - TEXT SIZE - LARGEST function works fine on my PC. All I can think of is your PC is using Netscape, Opera or one of the other web browsers.

Hope that helps,

jon

 

[Guest]

Lost Explorer-girl

Jon: thanks, but I do have the latest IE and Netscape, etc. I always use Explorer because it's the best for most of what I do (lots of on-line research). I get upgraded regularly, etc.

Obviously I can't call an IT person to show them the Lit. story problem.

Thanks anyway, Perdita

 

[Lauren Hynde]

For what it's worth, I also have to keep upgraded versions of IE and Netscape and that little trick works fine in my computer too...

 

[Weird Harold]

Re: Weird H.

Other screens change but not Lit.'s.

Jon's essentially correct about "5+" I actuallymeant version 5.0 or later (currently only 5.5 and 6.0 but including any new releases as well.)

On my system, it's almost the reverse -- Lit changes but most other pages don't.

Check your advanced tab in internet options to see if you've got something set that might disable the function for certain versions of HTML, or you have accessibility options set wrong.

Try changing anything that looks likely and see if it makes adiference -- you can always change things back.

 

[Why]

Hi Why (and welcome to Litland if nobody has welcomed you yet I hope you enjoy your stay.)

Interesting, precise and concise points you made there. I agree with them. Thanks. I especially agree with the information part. It's very difficult to take in lots of new information when I'm swamped with it in one huge paragraph.

I thank you for the welcome.

How long I will stay only the gods know and the demon of deadlines, research etc

Info dumps are a dangerous trap for writers especially when you are first trying to write. You want to tell the reader everything. The trick is to work out "how much" you really need too.

Ask yourself can you tell the story by your character's actions, reactions and speech?

Ask yourself do you have to tell the reader the colour of their, hair, eyes and the angle of the dangle every other chapter.

Have read a lot of work here over the past few weeks and found one thing, folks over used the three "c's" cunt, clit and cock

Sometimes the erotic starts to become a sex manual..... Sex manuals on the whole are boring, bit like car manuals....

Personally it is far more exciting to know what is going on in the person's mind and the reasons behind what they are doing in the framework of a solid story, than the bumping and grinding.

 

[Guest]

to the 3 big H's

Harold, Lauren and Jon:

Thanks for the help on Explorer. My tekkie son fixed the matter(he's 29!). Though I use high-tech eqipment I am not competant w/fixing things. I still get flustered trying to answer my cell phone!

Reading online is suddenly more pleasurable, a condition on Lit. for me.

Best always, Perdita

 

[WildLynx]

I find long paragraphs in e-stories very difficult to read. I have no trouble reading long paragraphs in hard-copy. It is all about comfort.

I wear tri-focals with lines. The jump/squiggle caused by these glasses is part of the problem. I need lots of reference points to keep from loosing my place.

Oddly yesterday I was reading a story on another site where the author wrote short paragraphs of dialog, characterization and plot elements, but screen length paragraphs of sex action.

I found myself skimming and skipping through the sex!

 

[Chicklet]

I find long paragraphs in e-stories very difficult to read. I have no trouble reading long paragraphs in hard-copy. It is all about comfort.

I wear tri-focals with lines. The jump/squiggle caused by these glasses is part of the problem. I need lots of reference points to keep from loosing my place.

Oddly yesterday I was reading a story on another site where the author wrote short paragraphs of dialog, characterization and plot elements, but screen length paragraphs of sex action.

I found myself skimming and skipping through the sex!

I think the answer to this is that paragraphs need to be long enough to hold interest, not short and choppy, but not so long that they bore you. know what I mean?

 

[MathGirl]

know what I mean?

no

 

[sirhugs]

I found myself skimming and skipping through the sex!

Hate it when that happens!

 

[wildsweetone]

I find long paragraphs in e-stories very difficult to read. I have no trouble reading long paragraphs in hard-copy. It is all about comfort.

I wear tri-focals with lines. The jump/squiggle caused by these glasses is part of the problem. I need lots of reference points to keep from loosing my place.

Just a thought, but have you tried to use your mouse/curser to hold the place you're up to on the monitor?

 

[WildLynx]

sirhugs just imagine my poor wife!

---------------------

have you tried to use your mouse/curser to hold the place you're up to on the monitor?

------------------------ Uh, gee... no. My mouse hand is so tired ---(in best whiney voice) I'll give it a try. Looks like I earned my STUPID sign for the day.


Chicklet, I know what your saying, just like goldilocks and the three bears. Porridge, beds and paragraphs should all be just right.

 

[destinie21]

It depends on the story length. If a story has horrible spacing but only lasts 1 or two pages and I like the content I'll read it. but even if the story is amazing if there are spacing problems and it goes on for 2 or more pages more often than not I'll just click off of it.

 

[jon.hayworth]

To everyone who has contributed to this thread.

At this moment 24 people have regfistered their preferences using the Poll.

The conclusions that I am drawing from it are that, although some people will force themselves to read on, (if the story is good), when reading a story off a screen, nearly 80% of people prefer short paragraphs. The absolute NO NO would appear to be paragraphs that are so long that they cannot be displayed on a single screen.

We should take into consideration who has contributed to this debate, I think without exception everyone has written stories, as writers it may be that we are a little more willing to read other people's work, and tolerant of layout problems than the average reader.

I hope all of you are finding this thread as useful as I am.

Maybe in the next week or so a hundred people will come along writing that they adore long paragraphs and I will have to revise this summation - but somehow I think not.

jon

 

[Guest]

Jon:

Yes, thank you. It has been useful I think.

regards, Perdita

and thanks for the IE help.

 

[Weird Harold]

We should take into consideration who has contributed to this debate, I think without exception everyone has written stories, as writers it may be that we are a little more willing to read other people's work, and tolerant of layout problems than the average reader.

Well, you ask this in the author's hangout. The results might be different if you posted it on story feedback or the general board.

Actually, I think authors are generally less tolerant of flaws that make stories difficult to read but interested enough in other factors to overlook technical flaws for a good plot or plot twist.

Paragraphs are only part of what will make an author abandon a story. However, long paragraphs, and/or a generally poor layout -- both physical layout like paragraph breaks and logical layout like the plot and descriptions -- are probably critical distinguishing characteristics that ultmately determines a stories votes.

A visually easy to read story that follows a logical sequence in the plot and action is just more appealing than a sloppy presentation or plot.