Phraseology Tidbits

[sr71plt]

This or that--or something we don't have much of around here

The term "by and large" comes from the sailing expressions "by the wind" and "sailing large"--and the phrase implies a balance between two extreme positions or consideration of things in a general way.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

The origin of "On the wagon," is said to come from the days before paved roads, when horse-drawn water wagons sprayed the streets to settle the dust. Anyone who had sworn abstinence from alcohol was said to have "climbed aboard the water wagon." Over time this got shortened to "on the wagon."

Earlier today I got another possible origin for this one. Back in the days when police loaded drunks onto Paddy Wagons, sometimes the additinal balast of spirits would cause one or more of the inebriates to "Fall off the wagon"

Those "on the wagon" were the Police officers who drove the wagon to various saloons to get the drunks and presumably being Officers of the law didn't take a drink or 12 while on duty [/sarcasm]

Makes sense to me though I have no source for this save a person I met today.

 

[sr71plt]

A humbling experience

The term "take down a peg" is yet another one from British navy jargon of the nineteenth century when a ship's colors were raised by pegs, and the higher the peg, the higher the honor. Therefore, going in the other direction . . .

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Another term from the navies of yore.

The term Log as in log book comes from the days of sailing prior to paper being a common writing material. the ships records were kept on shingles cut from logs.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Another term from the navies of yore.

The term Log as in log book comes from the days of sailing prior to paper being a common writing material. the ships records were kept on shingles cut from logs.

Seems dubious, got a source for that? Paper has been around a long time.

Back in the day, navigators would measure a ship's speed by throwing a wooden "log" in the water, attached to a line, and counting how much line they had to reel out in a fixed amount of time. The etymologies I've seen list this as the source for "log" as a ship's record, which I find more plausible.

(Hence also "knot", based on the knots in the line used to measure how much they'd reeled out.)

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Seems dubious, got a source for that? Paper has been around a long time.

Back in the day, navigators would measure a ship's speed by throwing a wooden "log" in the water, attached to a line, and counting how much line they had to reel out in a fixed amount of time. The etymologies I've seen list this as the source for "log" as a ship's record, which I find more plausible.

(Hence also "knot", based on the knots in the line used to measure how much they'd reeled out.)

US Navy Bluejackets Manual I was issued in 1991.

 

[sr71plt]

Alas, Kipfer gives no opinion on ships' logs.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

Listless
Today it means to be dull or without pep. It comes from the days of sail when a ship was becalmed and rode on an even keel .... without the port or starbord list experienced under a good breeze. No wind, no list; no list, lifeless.

 

[sr71plt]

Piling on the camel

At some point in the seventeenth century or so an old Arabic proverb that "It's the final straw that breaks the camel's back" got Westernized into "the last feather breaks the horse's back," but Charles Dickens is oft credited with returning the phrase to the straw and the camel in his 1848 book Dombey and Son, where he began a passage with. "As the last straw breaks the laden camel's back . . . "

 

[sr71plt]

Grounded

The term "no-show," someone who fails to keep an appointment, was originally airline jargon (indexed to 1941) for a listed passenger who didn't show up for boarding. Unfortunately, in the this day and age, that would be the occasion for not letting the airplane take off, from security concerns.

 

[sr71plt]

Surprisingly recent

The split between "fiction" and "nonfiction" in publishing didn't come until 1903, when a library journal coined the word "nonfiction" to provide the division.

 

[sr71plt]

Back to the races

The term "start from scratch" comes from giving handicaps to some competitors in racing. A contestant who starts from scratch ( line scratched in the turf or gravel)--presumable behind the line drawn for the one being given a handicap--is the one who has no advantage.

 

[WoodyTheWise]

US Navy Bluejackets Manual I was issued in 1991.

I have to say i have checked and agree with the correction by Bramblethorn to your post on the source of the 'log', at no point, other than your quote do i find anyone stating it comes from a 'shingle of wood', in fact archelogical find in around europe show early sailors used animal hides or fabric before paper came along.

The earliest finds show the use of Clay Tablets, marked with cuniform writing, to have been used before papirus or velium to record ships records.

The use of a 'Log' cast from the bow on a knotted line is even recorded in contemporary roman records from the 200 BC period.....now i'm sure the US Navy is good.....But even they cannot go back and remove historical records from Europe.

(sorry for the spelling and grammer, i'm dyslexic)

 

[WoodyTheWise]

The term "no-show," someone who fails to keep an appointment, was originally airline jargon (indexed to 1941) for a listed passenger who didn't show up for boarding. Unfortunately, in the this day and age, that would be the occasion for not letting the airplane take off, from security concerns.

First, the term comes from the Royal Flying Corp (first found in use in engineering records in 1915), to state an aircraft was unfit for flight, it was later used to descripbe aircrew in 1917 who were known to be 'shell shocked' by combat.

Secondly, if a passenger does not appear for boarding, having already been checked in, their lugage is offloaded from the flight, and the flight is only delayed...not grounded.

Having started at the beginning of this tread, i felt you may have had a point that you were being stalked and contradicted. Now.... Well i think the number of absolute old wives tales your spouting is just asking for trouble.

I would recommend investing in the OED.... google it

WTW

 

[WoodyTheWise]

The term "start from scratch" comes from giving handicaps to some competitors in racing. A contestant who starts from scratch ( line scratched in the turf or gravel)--presumable behind the line drawn for the one being given a handicap--is the one who has no advantage.

Pliny the elder (29AD to 79AD) states, that the term 'start from scratch' (Committitur a scabere) refers to how jewellers would start engraving...from scratched paterns which were then refined..... it may later have been used in racing....but it did not originate there.

 

[sr71plt]

First, the term comes from the Royal Flying Corp (first found in use in engineering records in 1915), to state an aircraft was unfit for flight, it was later used to descripbe aircrew in 1917 who were known to be 'shell shocked' by combat.

Secondly, if a passenger does not appear for boarding, having already been checked in, their lugage is offloaded from the flight, and the flight is only delayed...not grounded.

Having started at the beginning of this tread, i felt you may have had a point that you were being stalked and contradicted. Now.... Well i think the number of absolute old wives tales your spouting is just asking for trouble.

I would recommend investing in the OED.... google it

WTW

Perhaps you missed reading the parts of the thread about this being based on Barbara Ann Kipfer's Phraseology (so you can get snotty with her if you like--and you apparently like) and that all other variations on explanations would be welcome and interesting.

I obviously don't need to buy an OED, as you have one and are willing to share.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

I have to say i have checked and agree with the correction by Bramblethorn to your post on the source of the 'log', at no point, other than your quote do i find anyone stating it comes from a 'shingle of wood', in fact archelogical find in around europe show early sailors used animal hides or fabric before paper came along.

The earliest finds show the use of Clay Tablets, marked with cuniform writing, to have been used before papirus or velium to record ships records.

The use of a 'Log' cast from the bow on a knotted line is even recorded in contemporary roman records from the 200 BC period.....now i'm sure the US Navy is good.....But even they cannot go back and remove historical records from Europe.

(sorry for the spelling and grammer, i'm dyslexic)

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/traditions/html/navyterm.html

Log Book
In the early days of sailing ships, the ship's records were written on shingles cut from logs. These shingles were hinged and opened like a book. The record was called the "log book." Later on, when paper was readily available and bound into books, the record maintained it name.

 

[sr71plt]

It isn't just a band

The term "three dog night" comes from the Eskimos. It described a night so cold that one had to bed down with three dogs to keep warm. (I guess Eskimo women aren't too attractive.)

 

[WoodyTheWise]

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/traditions/html/navyterm.html

Log Book
In the early days of sailing ships, the ship's records were written on shingles cut from logs. These shingles were hinged and opened like a book. The record was called the "log book." Later on, when paper was readily available and bound into books, the record maintained it name.

everyone can find a website that gives an answer.....

The Royal Navy. (the worlds oldest standing Navy)...shows this on there website glossary section

LOG.—The instrument used to measure a vessel’s speed through the water.

http://www.royal-navy.org/glossary/?page_id=66

Now I hate to say this..... your website reference is wrong....on so many count... it claims to offer origins of words and phrases.... but quotes old wives tales... half the info is wrong... and obviosly so...

 

[PennLady]

The term "three dog night" comes from the Eskimos. It described a night so cold that one had to bed down with three dogs to keep warm. (I guess Eskimo women aren't too attractive.)

That's interesting. I'd heard pretty much the same explanation, but the setting was the Australian outback. I'll have to look for a source.

 

[_Lynn_]

That's interesting. I'd heard pretty much the same explanation, but the setting was the Australian outback. I'll have to look for a source.

I would freeze. I'm terrified of dogs.

 

[mynameisben]

I would freeze. I'm terrified of dogs.

On bitterly cold nights in Los Angeles, I make a habit of it to bed down with three corn dogs.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

The term "no-show," someone who fails to keep an appointment, was originally airline jargon (indexed to 1941) for a listed passenger who didn't show up for boarding. Unfortunately, in the this day and age, that would be the occasion for not letting the airplane take off, from security concerns.

Well, no, not actually. As an all too frequently frustrated passenger, I can differentiate beteween no-show and non-appearance.

Airlines, and passengers, don't give a toss about 'no-shows'. These were always passengers booked but who didn't check-in or checked-in and didn't board.

The new phenomenom is passengers who check-in with a bag then don't board the flight. Delays, need to offload luggage, but the plane takes off, but they are not 'no-shows' - I think the right expression is 'security risk'.

 

[_Lynn_]

On bitterly cold nights in Los Angeles, I make a habit of it to bed down with three corn dogs.

*chuckle*

 

[lance gt]

I would freeze. I'm terrified of dogs.

Snuggle in with a polar bear, they're nice and warm and cuddly.