Phraseology Tidbits

[elfin_odalisque]

The term "by and large" comes from the sailing expressions "by the wind" and "sailing large"--and the phrase implies a balance between two extreme positions or consideration of things in a general way.

Again, a complete load of rubbish that tries, erroneously, to fit two nautical expressions into a totally different current meaning.

If a ship did this, it would be "taken aback".

Given the 32 positions with the compass, a ship chooses to sail 'by the wind' or 'large'. There is no consideration of balance between extremes. If you do that you get 'taken aback', which means,if the helmsman by mistake turned the ship closer to the direction of the wind than it was capable of sailing, the wind would press the sails back against the masts, stopping the ship dead in the water and possibly breaking the masts off; in this case the ship was taken aback, the maritime source of another erroneous common metaphor.

You will appreciate that a ship could either sail large or it could sail by the wind, but never both at the same time. The phrase by and large in sailors’ parlance referred to all possible points of sailing, so it came to mean “in all possible circumstances”. That has been traduced in layman's language to a sense of “all things being considered”.

 

[sr71plt]

Not a road

A post to the AH today begs today's phraseology tidbit: a "tough/hard/long row to hoe." I didn't find claims of an origin for this phrase (maybe someone else can), but its base and application seem pretty much self-explanatory. Where it draws interest, though, is in its popular "makes-no-sense" spinoff, "tough road to hoe." This persistent misstatement can be traced at least as far back as the 1840 U.S. presidential reelection campaign of Martin Van Buren, where it was used in political cartoons.

Other cute and popular phrase bastardizations (maybe others can come up with some) include:

could care less (I come across this constently in editing)

close but no cigarette (which I love and plan to use as soon as possible)

nipped in the butt (rather than bud--but somehow the bastardization works nicely in its own right)

I have yet to find the original phrase for one of my other's most-used phrase bastardizations: Doesn't know straight up in the cows come home.

 

[PennLady]

Again, a complete load of rubbish that tries, erroneously, to fit two nautical expressions into a totally different current meaning.

No, it's not rubbish. The origin of the phrase and its current meaning are just not the same. I found the following four sites, which make note of the original meaning versus the current meaning, and all support the definition from SR's source. And he does have a source, he just doesn't name it in every post.

I would differ with his definition of the meaning of the phrase. When I've seen or heard it used, it implies "in general" or "generally speaking," and not a balance between extremes. But language changes.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/by-and-large.html

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1908/what-is-the-origin-of-by-and-large

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bya1.htm

http://www.answers.com/topic/by-and-large

 

[_Lynn_]

I think they're all interesting to read. SR isn't making up the definitions just to irritate others. He stated his source. When others post a definition, they add their source as well.

The EF isn't very busy. And too often the few threads that are here end up as pissing matches.

Besides, origins of phrases aren't worth arguing over.

 

[mynameisben]

I think they're all interesting to read. SR isn't making up the definitions just to irritate others. He stated his source. When others post a definition, they add their source as well.

The EF isn't very busy. And too often the few threads that are here end up as pissing matches.

Besides, origins of phrases aren't worth arguing over.

"Pissing Match" originated in ancient Mesopotamia, where men would gather to argue over whose penis was the largest. Rulers were dragged into service, but no one could ever agree on their exact placement for the start of accurate measurement. Disputes were invariably settled by urinary battle royale, in which the last man to fall to the ground beneath the weight of their saturated clothing was declared the victor.

Honest.

 

[sr71plt]

"Pissing Match" originated in ancient Mesopotamia, where men would gather to argue over whose penis was the largest. Rulers were dragged into service, but no one could ever agree on their exact placement for the start of accurate measurement. Disputes were invariably settled by urinary battle royale, in which the last man to fall to the ground beneath the weight of their saturated clothing was declared the victor.

Honest.

I'll heartily agree with you if only to watch Elfin attack you.

 

[lovecraft68]

"Pissing Match" originated in ancient Mesopotamia, where men would gather to argue over whose penis was the largest. Rulers were dragged into service, but no one could ever agree on their exact placement for the start of accurate measurement. Disputes were invariably settled by urinary battle royale, in which the last man to fall to the ground beneath the weight of their saturated clothing was declared the victor.

Honest.

I heard this also led to the expression "It's better to be pissed off than pissed on."

 

[_Lynn_]

I heard this also led to the expression "It's better to be pissed off than pissed on."

Some people like getting pissed on.

 

[lovecraft68]

Some people like getting pissed on.

Yup, right next door in the fetish forum as a matter of fact.

 

[Bramblethorn]

That's interesting. I'd heard pretty much the same explanation, but the setting was the Australian outback. I'll have to look for a source.

I've usually seen it attributed to Australian Aboriginals, and the band "Three Dog Night" took their name from a magazine article that referenced as an Australian term. But I have no idea which (if either) is the correct origin.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Other cute and popular phrase bastardizations (maybe others can come up with some) include:

could care less (I come across this constently in editing)[/B].

That one makes me grumble every time. It seems to be much more common in US usage than over here in .au, for some reason. "Here, here" also makes my teeth grind. *shakes stick at damn kids*

 

[lovecraft68]

That one makes me grumble every time. It seems to be much more common in US usage than over here in .au, for some reason. "Here, here" also makes my teeth grind. *shakes stick at damn kids*

Needless to say is one that sticks out to me. Because if its needless why say it?

It also sticks out to me because I used to use it and had an editor use that expression to me and it made sense.

 

[mynameisben]

"Can I ask you a question?"

"Yes, but you just wasted it. Now go away."

I hate that.

 

[lovecraft68]

Worse is "what do you think about this?"

You tell them then they start arguing about it.

Why the hell did you ask?

 

[sr71plt]

Maybe not Fred

Fred Flintstone's signature Yabbadabba doo phrase, often claimed to originate, as a song tune, in the Brylcream "a little dab'l do ya" commercial jingle and to Hanna and Barbera, in song lyrics, is claimed by Barbara Ann Kipfer's Phraeselogy to trace back to an early twentieth-century popular novelty song about chimpanzees and baboons. (Maybe that's where H&B got it.)

 

[sr71plt]

Like a baby

One who is innocent to the point of navite is said to be "wet behind the ears," which is said to originate from a soaking-wet newborn baby, because the last place on a newborn to dry is the small place behind the ears.

 

[sr71plt]

Really weak

This just picked up, thanks to bonniebrea, over at the AH: Having "feet of clay," or a real weakness in someone or something otherwise considered strong and infallible, is from the book of Daniel in the Bible (a great statue with feet of clay).

 

[mynameisben]

Fred Flintstone's signature Yabbadabba doo phrase, often claimed to originate, as a song tune, in the Brylcream "a little dab'l do ya" commercial jingle and to Hanna and Barbera, in song lyrics, is claimed by Barbara Ann Kipfer's Phraeselogy to trace back to an early twentieth-century popular novelty song about chimpanzees and baboons. (Maybe that's where H&B got it.)

The Brylcreem theory just doesn't hold water in my book. I see it as nothing more than a coincidence (and a weak one at that) that Brylcreem's ad slogan, "a little dab'll do ya" sounds somewhat like 'Yabba Dabba Do.' Fred Flintstone bellows his signature phrase as an expression of extreme joy or relief at the end of a grueling workday. In no way can I equate the emotion to the sing-song lilt of a hair cream jingle.

And, rather than believe the catchphrase can be attributed to a novelty song about monkeys (which also quite likely fails to capture the emotion of Fred's famous cry), I prefer to believe the creator of The Flintstone's himself, Mr. Joseph Barbera, who had this to say about the origins of the phrase in his autobiographical book My Life in Toons:

"How did this momentous artifact (yabba dabba do) come to be a part of The Flinstones? Originally the script called for Fred to shout Yahoo! At a recording session, Alan Reed (the voice of Fred) turned to me and asked, 'Can I say yabba dabba doo here?' In a stroke of blinding genius born out of years of experience, I replied, 'Okay.'"

So it was Alan Reed, the voice actor who played Fred Flintstone, who came up with yabba dabba doo.

I have not read My Life in Toons, but since the book, indeed, exists (you can order it on Amazon) and the passage is quoted at a television sitcom enthusiasts web site, the evidence is strong the account is credible.

 

[sr71plt]

The Brylcreem theory just doesn't hold water in my book. I see it as nothing more than a coincidence (and a weak one at that) that Brylcreem's ad slogan, "a little dab'll do ya" sounds somewhat like 'Yabba Dabba Do.' Fred Flintstone bellows his signature phrase as an expression of extreme joy or relief at the end of a grueling workday. In no way can I equate the emotion to the sing-song lilt of a hair cream jingle.

And, rather than believe the catchphrase can be attributed to a novelty song about monkeys (which also quite likely fails to capture the emotion of Fred's famous cry), I prefer to believe the creator of The Flintstone's himself, Mr. Joseph Barbera, who had this to say about the origins of the phrase in his autobiographical book My Life in Toons:

"How did this momentous artifact (yabba dabba do) come to be a part of The Flinstones? Originally the script called for Fred to shout Yahoo! At a recording session, Alan Reed (the voice of Fred) turned to me and asked, 'Can I say yabba dabba doo here?' In a stroke of blinding genius born out of years of experience, I replied, 'Okay.'"

So it was Alan Reed, the voice actor who played Fred Flintstone, who came up with yabba dabba doo.

I have not read My Life in Toons, but since the book, indeed, exists (you can order it on Amazon) and the passage is quoted at a television sitcom enthusiasts web site, the evidence is strong the account is credible.

Ah, but didn't Alan Reed play the chimpanzee in the original song?

 

[mynameisben]

Ah, but didn't Alan Reed play the chimpanzee in the original song?

I'm guessing the novelty song you're referring to is Aba Daba Honeymoon, which was recorded by Debbie Reynolds and became a hit in 1950. No, Alan Reed had nothing to do with that song. It was originally written in 1914 as part of a collection of ragtime songs intended to disparage African Americans for the then-popular sport of it.

I consider this song to be another coincidence, which in no way captures the emotion of Fred's iconic cry. Although, I must admit, it comes a lot closer to it than the Brylcreem jingle does.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm guessing the novelty song you're referring to is Aba Daba Honeymoon, which was recorded by Debbie Reynolds and became a hit in 1950. No, Alan Reed had nothing to do with that song. It was originally written in 1914 as part of a collection of ragtime songs intended to disparage African Americans for the then-popular sport of it.

I consider this song to be another coincidence, which in no way captures the emotion of Fred's iconic cry. Although, I must admit, it comes a lot closer to it than the Brylcreem jingle does.

Kipfer didn't cite the song title and I couldn't find one on a google search.

But come to think of it, didn't Debbie Reynolds play the monkey part in that song?

 

[sr71plt]

News to me

Here's one I've never seen in use. The phrase "couch potato" has spawned the phrase "mouse potato"--spending too much time on the computer.

 

[sr71plt]

Keep it moving

A Roman actor and writer, Publilius Syrus, is credited with originating the phrase "a rolling stone gathers no moss" in the first century BC.

 

[sr71plt]

Not so big, but a bit drunk

The origin of the term "thumbnail sketch," used to denote a brief description, is attributed (at least by Kipfer) to the English painter, William Hogarth, who sketched a tavern scene on his thumbnail when no one was able to bring him paper when he was feeling creative (and probably was three sheets to the wind).

Which brings up . . . "three sheets to wind," meaning drunk, and of seafaring origin, as so many references to drunk are. Sheets aren't sails, as we might suppose, but ropes or chains fixing the lower corners of sails to hold them in place. If three sheets are loose and blowing about in the wind, the sails will flap and the boat will lurch about like a drunken sailor.

 

[sr71plt]

It's music

To mark the ending this week of the Tom Tom Founders Music Festival (that would be Thomas Jefferson) in Central Virginia this weekend, the phrase "tom-tom," being a form of drum--or, more precisely, two joined drums--doesn't come from either the Caribbean or Africa, as one might suppose. It's a bastardization of the Indian (as in the country India) timpani instrument, the tam-tam.