Please grovel, bitch?

[pink_silk_glove]

That was my take too, when I read a couple of those stories when I first arrived here on Lit, checking out the various categories. Full blown misogyny, hostile anger. Anti-erotic in my book, serving another purpose altogether, definitely not mine.

I look at it more from the point of view of the victim character since so many people are turned on by being the victim of the abuse.

This is my theory, unscientific, just through observing people (online and in real world) and what drives them, especially many broken people that I've worked with in the community. Many people have a deep sense of self-lack in one area of their life or another. When you have such a deep sense of lack and you get sick of wallowing in it, you can either accept it (and it will stop being a lack) or embrace it and dive in.

People who have a thing for being subservient. It's like they feel that they have a lack of purpose in the world, and so if they serve someone else (even in some sort of slave situation) then they will have some purpose.

People who have been emotionally abused growing up, perhaps they just embrace that and seek more abuse in some effort to rule the abuse rather than have the abuse rule them.

Men who have no success with women and feel powerless, embrace that powerlessness and become a cuckold or seek a chastity cage. No power with women, just embrace it full force and give up all power, probably to have some control over their personal lack. I see this one in chat ALL THE TIME.

It's similar to women calling each other bitches or gays calling each other fags, and the obvious, black people and the n-word. Rather than cower under the term, they embrace it in an effort to take control of it.

 

[BlueZen]

Hmmm, but I'm exploreing why that fantasy exists.

You mean like why extreme fantasies exist? Because people are fucked up. I think some of us are born that way, and others are made that way. In any case, people find all sorts of crazy things sexually stimulating. If what they like is on the extreme end of things, then it's best they keep their fantasies to the realm of make believe. Or better yet, find like-minded consenting adults to play with.

But ultimately, if it doesn't hurt you (and it's not hurting anyone else either), then don't worry about it. Just exercise your right not to participate.

 

[Britva415]

it's rarely a conscious choice. Most people don't think, "Yeah, I want to be attracted to a dominatrix, so now I am." Same with sexuality, it's rarely a conscious choice for someone to go, "I want to be attracted to women. Poof, now I am."

And even more to the point, the people with different tastes and orientations don't/can't choose not to be attracted/turned on by whatever it is.

 

[Britva415]

I'm exploreing why that fantasy exists.

Welp

Good luck.

What difference would it make. Asking "why" really smells like there's a "gotcha" coming - as if explaining would cleverly maneuver the person into admitting something which justifies the asker's distaste.

I'm not saying this is your motivation, but it is one which I've seen. And it is only one of the reasons people don't answer "why" questions in a way which satisfies the asker.

The other main reason is that "why" really just isn't answerable, generally. Taste doesn't have to be explained. Nature? Nurture? What difference would it make. This is why when someone asks "why" they get "what" and "how" answers instead. People want to answer but they can't answer the question asked.

Sometimes people can put their finger on a "why." Oh, that's easy, it's because my father smelled of elderberries and my mother pushed my train set down the stairs. But more often, asking someone why they like something rightly just gets "Fuck if I know, it's just because I fuckin' do, all right? The fuck do you like, huh?" Yet people who don't like the thing can easily come up with reasons, and project them onto everyone else.

 

[BlueZen]

Sometimes people can put their finger on a "why." Oh, that's easy, it's because my father smelled of elderberries and my mother pushed my train set down the stairs. But more often, asking someone why they like something rightly just gets "Fuck if I know, it's just because I fuckin' do, all right? The fuck do you like, huh?" Yet people who don't like the thing can easily come up with reasons, and project them onto everyone else.

I'd make the argument that if it wasn't elderberries and toy trains, it would have been something else. Probably the person had the deck stacked for a fetish or a family of fetishes since they were in utero. Environment fine tuned it down to the specifics, but it was always in the cards.

 

[Britva415]

I'd make the argument that if it wasn't elderberries and toy trains, it would have been something else. Probably the person had the deck stacked for a fetish or a family of fetishes since they were in utero. Environment fine tuned it down to the specifics, but it was always in the cards.

We'll mostly never know. But I agree, that when someone does have a ready explanation, it's just their story and might not be a "real why" in any kind of objective way.

It can still be worth hearing them tell it: It can be authentic without necessarily being the psychological neurological biological sociological metaphysical tRuTh. And maybe that kind of authenticity is all OP is looking for. I still think it's going to be a tough ask, because most people don't want to try to explain why they have their taste and, if they don't just blow the question off, they will describe what their taste is and how they like it instead.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Okay, so part of it is about *intensity*. But the genre is about 'ruining' people. So I don't want to slide into the merits of BDSM here. This is basically about people being raped.

"People being raped" and "people fantasising about being raped" are different things though. I have had partners who were survivors of rape and who got off on CNC play; it doesn't mean they wanted to relive their assaults for real.

 

[lovecraft68]

"People being raped" and "people fantasising about being raped" are different things though. I have had partners who were survivors of rape and who got off on CNC play; it doesn't mean they wanted to relive their assaults for real.

I was physically abused by a father with a serious drinking problem and I saw what he did to my mother, which was not just physical abuse and I'll leave it there. My uncles were the same, free with their hands with my aunts and cousins. Traumatic was my life until the state pulled me out at 13.

But I do enjoy taking pain and humiliation as a bottom and dole it out as a top. Is that because of my past? Warped the pleasure pain line? Or am I someone that has a built in disconnect between what was abuse and what I enjoy and inherently know the difference?

I know a woman who was raped years ago and is very much into CNC with her longtime partner. My sister was assaulted years ago and is the opposite and lost it on a boyfriend one time when she was walking by the couch and he playfully grabbed her arm and pulled her down onto his lap and tried to give her a kiss.

No two people's traumas are the same, no two people's coping is the same.

This is why communication between people is so key in every way, but sex is more important than people think, even when it comes to less extreme kinks and games.

Repeating what I said earlier, these stories are fantasies and shouldn't be held to reality, but I also see it that when dealing with rough play and things the OP describes, I can't help feel that its unnerving misinformation the way some portray it. "Hey, just met you, how about you come back to my place and I put you in your place, you snotty bitch?"

Then I tell myself every adult has to understand what falls under don't try this at home.

 

[LargoKitt]

You also have to consider that just because someone enjoys reading about a kink, doesn't mean they would actually ever do it or even enjoy it in real life. In fact, I would imagine a decent chunk of readers enjoy the stories because it allows them to explore aspects of sexuality that they would never dare to try in real life. A lot of people enjoy cheating stories, but wouldn't dream of cheating on their partner.

As an author and a reader I'm digging into the 'why' of enjoying something in print (or on a video screen) that would be abhorrent in real life. someone has a sweet, long-term loving relationship with a female partner but enjoys reading about women 'getting all their holes ruined.' If you are creating that character, the one reading and dreaming, why are they going there? Boredom? An old trauma? I can also see it as a 'horror story,' but why is it sexy?

 

[LargoKitt]

I have had partners who were survivors of rape and who got off on CNC play; it doesn't mean they wanted to relive their assaults for real.

What did they want? Why did they 'say' they wanted to play that way?

 

[LargoKitt]

As am I, but I try not to judge other people's kinks (real and fantasy).

I judge other people's kinks if they result in someone being permanently physically or psychologically abused.

 

[LargoKitt]

People shouldn't judge others for things outside their conscious control. You can dislike it, find it distasteful, that's fine. But to pass moral judgement for subconscious desires,

I figured long ago that what I fantasized about was totally my business. But fantasy and action are two different things. You have a lot of control over how you act out your fantasies. You can write stories about necrophilia. Don't do it.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I judge other people's kinks if they result in someone being permanently physically or psychologically abused.

I do too. But there are those lacking ethics and morality.

 

[Writer61]

I judge other people's kinks if they result in someone being permanently physically or psychologically abused.

Basically, those are my red lines too.

 

[Britva415]

Why did they 'say' they wanted to play that way?

Regardless of whether I'd be into playing along with it or not, I can't imagine asking someone that question.

I don't see any scenario where asking someone "You have kink X? Why?" would ever have any good reason and wouldn't be just plain rude. Even if they were a potential partner. Maybe especially if they were a potential partner.

 

[LargoKitt]

Kink cross-sections are weird. My main three are cheating, incest, and anal, and that is odd to many, I'm sure. I've played with elements of humiliation in my writing, but it only feels good if they're "deserving" somehow. A decent person getting crushed without consent feels bad.

A quick suss, if I looked at your favorites list, or the stories you wrote and they are all about cheating, incest and anal and a glom of your moniker I'd say this author is really all about 'doing what you shouldn't do in society's eyes'. Hmm. Guess for them sex is more exciting if it's forbidden. Okay, for me sex is more exciting if it is enthusiastically consensual. Guess this author isn't for me.

 

[LargoKitt]

Regardless of whether I'd be into playing along with it or not, I can't imagine asking someone that question.

I don't see any scenario where asking someone "You have kink X? Why?" would ever have any good reason and wouldn't be just plain rude. Even if they were a potential partner. Maybe especially if they were a potential partner.

So you get to the hotel room and she (he) says: "Now I want you to punch me in the face several times. Not just slaps. I want at least one serious black eye. And if you could split my lip and knock out a couple of teeth, that would be super." And you say, "Do you want me to punch you in the face while we are fucking, or before...?" WTF? At some point one needs to understand why/how their sex partner wants to be treated a certain way. I guess there are clubs and situations where you show up, mistreat someone and never see them again... People are people, not just bodies, even in the red room.

 

[Britva415]

At some point one needs to understand why/how their sex partner wants to be treated a certain way

I would say that "how" is in bounds, but "why" is a fool's errand.

 

[Britva415]

Maybe we're talking about different things. Up till now, every question about "why" in this thread so far has seemed to me like "why do you have this kink. What's the reason, what caused it, what happened to you." That's the version I'm pushing back against.

This last instance though sounds like it could be something more like "why do you want this? If I understand WHAT you get out of it, WHAT it does for you, HOW you like it, I could perform it better." It's a "why" which doesn't really mean "why". That's a very different question from the first, and it also seems very different from how I took the whole rest of this thread.

 

[Bramblethorn]

What did they want?

To roleplay non-con scenarios (as the victim). I'm not going to share detail beyond that.

Why did they 'say' they wanted to play that way?

I don't think I've ever had a sexual partner who offered an explanation of why they wanted the things they wanted, and I've never felt the need to ask.

 

[lovecraft68]

So you get to the hotel room and she (he) says: "Now I want you to punch me in the face several times. Not just slaps. I want at least one serious black eye. And if you could split my lip and knock out a couple of teeth, that would be super." And you say, "Do you want me to punch you in the face while we are fucking, or before...?" WTF? At some point one needs to understand why/how their sex partner wants to be treated a certain way. I guess there are clubs and situations where you show up, mistreat someone and never see them again... People are people, not just bodies, even in the red room.

I'm not sold on the needing to know why if only because when dealing with certain things the answer to why isn't a simple "Oh, because..." sometimes people don't fully understand their own feelings and they don't owe anyone an explanation.

 

[Britva415]

So you get to the hotel room and she (he) says: "Now I want you to punch me in the face several times. Not just slaps. I want at least one serious black eye. And if you could split my lip and knock out a couple of teeth, that would be super." And you say

I say "no thanks."

At some point one needs to understand why/how their sex partner wants to be treated a certain way.

"How?" Sure. "Why?" No they don't.

Turn it around: "Why won't you give me a black eye?" The hell with you, I don't fuckin' wanna, that's why.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I say "no thanks."

"How?" Sure. "Why?" No they don't.

Turn it around: "Why won't you give me a black eye?" The hell with you, I don't fuckin' wanna, that's why.

That almost sounds like somebody wanting a setup for a domestic assault case against someone else.

 

[Voboy]

I'm not all that interested in understanding other peoples' kinks. I think it's a fool's errand. They are not me, and I am not them. We are all extremely complicated; we all come from many different variables. Any one of them can play a role in how we express ourselves sexually. Why try to quantify it? I don't see a point.

Whatever floats their boat. As long as everything is consensual, I support it and I'm very glad that Lit provides places for readers to find whatever they like. More power to them. I don't like to judge.

That said, I only tried to write one BDSM piece, ever. I did it for someone I was very close to, and they liked it even though nobody else (including me, lol) seems to be into it. That's it for me.

 

[SimonDoom]

I would say that "how" is in bounds, but "why" is a fool's errand.

I think this states it as well as it can be stated.

There's an instructive video clip from an interview with the great physicist Richard Feynman (you can find it easily online) where the interviewer asks him "why" a magnet attracts a bit of metal, and Feynman goes on to deconstruct the problem of asking "why" questions in the context of physics. Things just are. I think the problem applies to people's sexual kinks, too. You can try to peel back the layers of the onion, but you keep finding more layers. The onion keeps going.

I don't offer this as a definitive explanation, because I believe everybody is different, but at the root of a lot of these "why do people have X kink?" questions is an answer that many people seem to have a hard time accepting.

People want to be deviant.

They want to be bad. They want to be naughty. They want to transgress. There's something delicious about it. As an avid consumer of erotic lit and art, this seems fairly obvious to me. But I think many people have trouble accepting the truth of it.

People (at least some significant percentage of them) want, somewhere deep inside themselves, the opposite of what they're told to want.

Women are told to be virtuous and to keep their clothes on. Some women react to that by fantasizing about running naked through the streets and letting men fuck them with abandon.

Men are told to be strong and courageous. Some men react by fantasizing about being weak and small, helpless, worthless, trampled on, spit on. They want their penises put in metal cages.

It's the way we are.

You can ask "why" all you want, but at some point the answer is simply "because."

I think that's part of the fun of erotica.