PoBo Form Master Class Series - The Ghazal

[Equinoxe]

Thanks for the clarification, Sassy!

If I understand this correctly:

1. the end phrase of my first line is repeated as the second line in each couplet, including the first couplet.*

*[Actually, this is still a tiny bit confusing. Is it the final WORD that's repeated, and the word preceding that final word rhymes? Or, is it ok to repeat the final phrase? I've seen both formats.]

Yes. It can be a word or phrase which is repeated, that is the poet's decision, and word or phrase it follows the rhyme.

2. each line has the same meter and syllable count, but there's no formula for the number of syllables (like in Haiku).

Yes. You may use an metre or syllable count you desire.

3. each couplet stands alone as a complete sentence or thought; no dangling into the next couplet.

Yes.

4. the final couplet has fun with stimulants ... like traditional Haiku refers to seasons or nature in some fashion.

Sometimes, but not always. It is not a strict requirement. Also, the first line of the final couplet traditionally includes a reference to the author's name (his or her 'takhallus'), somehow.

5. the poem has as many stanzas/couplets as it needs; no minimum or maximum.

Agha Shaid Ali says five to fifteen couplets, but I have seen ghazals with fewer than five couplets and ones with more than fifteen. For purposes of this thread, five to fifteen is probably a good idea.

Now I'll go try it again.

Goddess Nyx

In bold.

 

[sassynyc]

Thanks for the clarification, Sassy!

If I understand this correctly:

1. the end phrase of my first line is repeated as the second line in each couplet, including the first couplet.

not necessarily. your refrain can be a single word or a phrase.

(the bold words are the refrain)
i.e.
pain, through the fire
slain, through the fire

or

you, love
true, love

Actually, this is still a tiny bit confusing. Is it the final WORD that's repeated, and the word preceding that final word rhymes? Or, is it ok to repeat the final phrase? I've seen both formats.

the refrain (whatever you choose it to be) is repeated. the word immediately preceding the refrain in each couplet must rhyme.

2. each line has the same meter and syllable count, but there's no formula for the number of syllables (like in Haiku).

yes

3. each couplet stands alone as a complete sentence or thought; no dangling into the next couplet.

right. it can stand as it's own poem, but is still relevant to the poem as a whole.

4. the final couplet has fun with stimulants ... like traditional Haiku refers to seasons or nature in some fashion.

champ clarified that the stimulants may be mentioned anywhere in the poem you wish. stimulants are a traditional component, but i'm not sure if it is a steadfast rule of the form.

5. the poem has as many stanzas/couplets as it needs; no minimum or maximum.

there is a minimum of five couplets and a maximum of fifteen

if i missed anything guys, jump in.
hope this helps.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Okay! FINE! then, TWauT!

One day, a Rabbit, a turtle and a Buzzard were planning on starting a farm. The Turtle and Buzzard were digging holes, and they sent the Rabbit out to find horse manure, to fertilize the land. While the rabbit is out finding manure, the turtle and buzzard strike oil. They become instantly rich. When the rabbit returns, he sees a mansion. He rings the doorbell, and an ENGLISH butler answers. The rabbit says "where is the buzzard and the turtle?". The butler replies "Mr. BuzzARD is out by the yard, and Mr. TurtEL is out by the well." the rabbit says, " Tell Mr TurtEL who is out by the well, and Mr BuzzARD, whos out by the yard, that Mr. RabBIT is here with the shit!"

I am sure this is highly amusing to Americans taking the piss out the English language but as it's not the way they would pronounce the names at all excuse me if I don't fall over laughing now if it was about aluminium (which you seem to spell with two O's instead of the first U) or about a fanny bag (which over here is a twat) it might be more amusing !

 

[champagne1982]

Love's Stain Upon Me (a ghazal)
by champagne1982©

Wetness sparkles in shining dew upon my skin where your mouth has lain upon me.
Loves kisses falling on my face anoint my heart as they drip like rain upon me.

If a story of our love were told there would be a golden light around your soul.
Brilliant as it flashes through the night, burning away the tortured pain upon me.

Brace above me in the haze of your passion with your face nestled against my throat.
Your hair flows through my fingers, over my touch, against my breast, a mane upon me.

There are hot moments that we could lose ourselves within as our hips slap together.
In our lustful sex, as we mate, you push the burden of being sane upon me.

I don't want to realize the world is nearby when you're loving me so damned well.
Sing songs of love and let them surge up, bursting in bubbles like Champagne upon me.
________________

I used a pure 20 syllable count but since it's in English the metre sounds fairly intricate. We tend to speak in iambs and trochees all of the time so, even with a straight count, the metre shines through.

My rhyming words are in red. The refrain is "upon me" in bold

 

[Equinoxe]

See when you do the rhymes blend perfectly into the rest of the poem .. on mine they stuck out like sore thumbs ouch! I had a rhyming website up searching for what rhymed with what!

It's funny you say that—because I am convinced that the rhyme in my poem is too obvious!

 

[Angeline]

I was floating on a river last night
in a dream in a green park from my youth

Nothing stays the same, even when I sleep
with the stream of my memories of youth

Today the world is older, more corrupt
I'm seamless, my spirit's the same, my youth

Here dwells the ageless canon where I sat
years past the teeming city of my youth

I still can smell the mud at water's edge
The beam of autumn's prism seals my youth.

 

[Equinoxe]

A Long Shadow

You walk across the world and cast a shadow,
and hangs in haze and dreams the last—a shadow.

The heart and soul seek sky and bask in sunrise;
beneath the light and day has massed a shadow.

I wait in hope and wishing the will of someone
who still and silent stands aghast, a shadow.

Too long it is to long, threadbare years stretching—
in mind ever and holding fast a shadow.

Equinox, equinox, solstice to solstice:
thoughts keep thoughts, and in the past a shadow.

 

[champagne1982]

I like how Angeline fudged the formula for the sake of her poem. This is where the poet must decide if the canonical form should be adhered to or if slight modification would serve the message better.

 

[GoddessNyx SwtCheeks]

Bayou Sky Ghazel

I THINK I got it -- or at least, am close ... Comments, Please!

B]Bayou Sky Ghazel[/B]

Wet sheets of heavy air pull my life's pulse.
Stretch me, command me, and rule my life's pulse.

Clothes absorb odor blows like armor banged.
Costumes we wear ridicule my life's pulse.

Iced beer bottle sweats free float molecules.
Pores impermeable cool my life's pulse.

Damp rug crawls and clings to bare feet and back.
Grasping for hope doesn't fool my life's pulse.

Body heat, oils, salt meld Goddess and sub.
Raw emotion now -- how cruel my life's pulse.

Goddess Nyx

 

[Angeline]

I like how Angeline fudged the formula for the sake of her poem. This is where the poet must decide if the canonical form should be adhered to or if slight modification would serve the message better.

I was trying to see how close I could get to enjambing lines. Not very, but some.

 

[champagne1982]

I THINK I got it -- or at least, am close ... Comments, Please!

Bayou Sky Ghazel

Wet sheets of heavy air pull my life's pulse.
Stretch me, command me, and rule my life's pulse.

Clothes absorb odor blows like armor banged.
Costumes we wear ridicule my life's pulse.

Iced beer bottle sweats free float molecules.
Pores impermeable cool my life's pulse.

Damp rug crawls and clings to bare feet and back.
Grasping for hope doesn't fool my life's pulse.

Body heat, oils, salt meld Goddess and sub.
Raw emotion now -- how cruel my life's pulse.

Goddess Nyx

You stuck firm to the rules of rhythm and refrain and the rhyme is only blurry in the first verse. I really like the imagery in S5; that rug getting bunched up beneath the lovers is genius. Really good. How do you feel about the poem? It seems to me that you've met all the elements and answered the challenge of the form beautifully and now you have a terrific tool in your poetry tool belt.

 

[champagne1982]

I was trying to see how close I could get to enjambing lines. Not very, but some.

But, the caveat here is that the ghazal is rarely, if ever, enjambed, even between the 2 lines of a couplet.

 

[Angeline]

But, the caveat here is that the ghazal is rarely, if ever, enjambed, even between the 2 lines of a couplet.

I know. That's why I tried to do it.

 

[champagne1982]

I know. That's why I tried to do it.

:caning: push it further missy...

 

[sassynyc]

:caning: push it further missy...

whoever says learning isn't fun, hasn't been to your class.

 

[Angeline]

:caning: push it further missy...

I have more fun when I throw out the rules. Just a little!

 

[champagne1982]

I have more fun when I throw out the rules. Just a little!

Yes, I know you do. Now, write a comment on Goddess' poem... Please ..

 

[Angeline]

Yes, I know you do. Now, write a comment on Goddess' poem... Please ..

It's good. It follows the rules, the rhyme isn't overly obtrusive. The rhythm is good although S5 isn't pentameter, but if you read "cruel" as two syllables, it's consistent within the stanza.

However, I conclude from this first master class that I am still no great fan of the ghazal and here's why: I think the rules make it very difficult to avoid awkward constructions; they almost invite Yoda-speak writing. I don't see that in Goddess' poem, no more than I do in any of them including mine, but I guess poems that don't invite enjambment and force you pretty much to have a single idea in each line aren't my thing...

 

[GoddessNyx SwtCheeks]

re Bayou Sky Ghazal

Thanks, Champ, Sassy and Angeline --

At the beginning of the week, I felt like I was learning to tap dance all over again, with three left feet. It took me a while to understand how the pieces are supposed to fit. ...

and then time to try to figure out how to pour something into the form. I adapted a poem I'd written a few years ago, and it was definitely a S T R E T C H to find ways to make some of the words fit, keep the same tense, number of syllables.

About half the images are new, for this poem form. Bayou Sky Ghazel needs polishing, and I'm gonna do it -- I knew if I didn't post it before the next class starts, it would be too easy to feel hopelessly behind and drop out. So I pushed!

I can see how ghazal could be powerful in future poems, if I want to repeat a phrase, increasing intensity.

So, it was actually an interesting and productive process. I'm an intuitive poet, so learning formats and structure is great. This will help me understand other poetry better, and -- you're right -- it's another weapon in my poetic arsenal.

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and humor -- all of you. Hope we get to a form I feel I can offer comments about to others at some point.

Goddess Nyx

 

[Angeline]

Thanks, Champ, Sassy and Angeline --

At the beginning of the week, I felt like I was learning to tap dance all over again, with three left feet. It took me a while to understand how the pieces are supposed to fit. ...

and then time to try to figure out how to pour something into the form. I adapted a poem I'd written a few years ago, and it was definitely a S T R E T C H to find ways to make some of the words fit, keep the same tense, number of syllables.

About half the images are new, for this poem form. Bayou Sky Ghazel needs polishing, and I'm gonna do it -- I knew if I didn't post it before the next class starts, it would be too easy to feel hopelessly behind and drop out. So I pushed!

I can see how ghazal could be powerful in future poems, if I want to repeat a phrase, increasing intensity.

So, it was actually an interesting and productive process. I'm an intuitive poet, so learning formats and structure is great. This will help me understand other poetry better, and -- you're right -- it's another weapon in my poetic arsenal.

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge and humor -- all of you. Hope we get to a form I feel I can offer comments about to others at some point.

Goddess Nyx

I think it's always easier to write something new than to try to adapt an existing poem to a form, even if you still write on the same theme or use some phrasing from the original. And there's a learning curve with every form, so the more you practice the more you see ways to do it better, you know?

As far as the teaching, the great thing about this forum, imho, is that people learn together from these classes and challenges and can all help each other. This place has always been so helpful for that. I've no doubt we'll learn from you, too, we already do from reading your poems and ideas.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

It's good. It follows the rules, the rhyme isn't overly obtrusive. The rhythm is good although S5 isn't pentameter, but if you read "cruel" as two syllables, it's consistent within the stanza.

However, I conclude from this first master class that I am still no great fan of the ghazal and here's why: I think the rules make it very difficult to avoid awkward constructions; they almost invite Yoda-speak writing. I don't see that in Goddess' poem, no more than I do in any of them including mine, but I guess poems that don't invite enjambment and force you pretty much to have a single idea in each line aren't my thing...

'Yoda- speak writing' LOL I love it!

 

[KillerMuffin]

The ghazal is my favorite form! Though I usually write free verse 'cause I suck at it so much.

A ghazal is a collection of sher, couplets. Each sher is a poem in and of itself and does not need the other sher to convey its message. In other words, each sher (except the first and last) should be movable throughout the ghazal, not fixed in a particular order. Sher are interchangeable with each other. If any sher relies on other sher to make sense, it is not a ghazal. Sher order is chosen for other reasons than for sher to make sense.

Sher follow these rules:

beher, meter / line length,
--both lines of the sher must have the same beher
--all sher must have the same beher
--there are 19 beher styles in 3 classes (short, medium, and long)
--medium styles frequently use pauses in the middle of all lines in all sher and long beher styles should use pauses in the middle (translations will usually turn couplets into quatrains at the ceasuras)

radif, repetition
--the final word in each sher must be the same
--ghazals are often named for their radif

kaafivaa, rhyming pattern
--there is usually an internal rhyming pattern through the ghazal where a word on the second line of the sher rhyme with words in the same general point on other lines of a sher (may include first lines)

malta, first sher
--both lines have a radif
--this sher is not interchangeable with any other sher

maqta, final sher
--often contains the takhallus (alias of the writer)
--this sher is not interchangeable with any other sher

Traditional themes of the ghazal are love and religious spirituality. It's frequently erotic. The theme of the ghazal is often reflected in the maqta. It actually doesn't have to contain any references to drugs or alcohol, though it usually does because alcohol and drugs alter a person's state of conciousness, which is a distinct and very Persian metaphor for the altered state of consciousness that love or religious spirituality will bring one into. If wine doesn't fit the theme, it shouldn't be in the maqta.



(sources:
Norton, another two books I can't remember, & my prof)

 

[champagne1982]

Thanks for paying a visit to this thread, KM. It's been a very long time since you've graced us with a lesson. I haven't written a serious ghazal since the very first time and much of what you say seems to strike a chord of memory from when I was researching in preparation for the writing. Your knowledge is really valuable and appreciated by (at least one of) the poets who want to learn and practice more of this delicious form.

Brava, ma'am. Brava!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Thanks for paying a visit to this thread, KM. It's been a very long time since you've graced us with a lesson. I haven't written a serious ghazal since the very first time and much of what you say seems to strike a chord of memory from when I was researching in preparation for the writing. Your knowledge is really valuable and appreciated by (at least one of) the poets who want to learn and practice more of this delicious form.

Brava, ma'am. Brava!

Aw shucks :blush: I'm not as much as all that. I'm just me. Other people here know a lot more than I do.

 

[champagne1982]

Aw shucks :blush: I'm not as much as all that. I'm just me. Other people here know a lot more than I do.

I can see the pink climbing up those cheeks in your avatar.

Yep, there are other people who have different insight about different things but I haven't heard them give me details about writing a ghazal like your post does. I had to delve into dozens of articles to even begin to grab the tidbits that litter your entire post and that means that most of it is here in one easy ghazallishious package. I still say thanks.