Poetry in Progress ~ construction zone

[pushkine]

oh stuff it I don't know what iambic anythings are I give up on the whole damn thing

This disturbs me, as does this post, which seems related. I thought the contest was intended to be, at least in part, a way for people to learn some things and expand their technical poetic skills.

I think a number of people would try and help you with this. I would, if asked. (Just to note, I agree with NPA4U that none of those lines are iambic pentameter. And, to vault me over him on your shit list, your poem has inter-couplet enjambment, which is also disallowed.) But, if you don't want to try and learn the form (and the meter), you have several options:

1. Post what you have in the relevant Survivor thread and ask Lauren if she feels it satisfies the criteria for heroic couplets. She has been very flexible and may allow it, and hers is the only opinion that counts.
2. Post the poem as is (as "Poet's Choice"), as NPA4U suggested, and try again with a different poem.
3. Use an immunity for the heroic couplet form. (You don't appear to have registered for immunities. You should. It lets you skip a form and trigger combination. I've already used it to avoid subjecting all of you to my voice. Go here to sign up. I'd suggest your first immunity be used for blank verse, though, as that is a purely metrical form and, I would think, less open to variation than any of the others. You'll probably get multiple immunities over the course of a year, though, so you can block out several forms, if need be.)
4. Write what you want to write and stop worrying about the contest. (I am already questioning whether it is a good use of my time. I have some personal issues that have made it useful to me, but my circumstances have changed and I'm beginning to find it, frankly, kind of boring.)

My personal recommendation would be to try and train your ear to hear the meter. Get a recording of Shakespeare's sonnets from a library, for example. If you have a sound card, get a microphone and record yourself (Windows has a program called Sound Recorder that, though basic, lets you make sound files) and listen for the stresses in your speech.

You may not be able to hear them. I have a friend who describes herself as "tone deaf," and who, when she encounters an unfamilar word, looks very closely at one's mouth pronouncing it, the way a deaf person might. She can't, really, "hear" the word and has to look at how to make her mouth do the same thing. If you simply can't hear the rhythm, you can't, and none of us can fix that.

Please don't toss the entire contest because you're having problems with a form.

Or do, if that's what you want.

 

[bflagsst]

I think a number of people would try and help you with this. I would, if asked. (Just to note, I agree with NPA4U that none of those lines are iambic pentameter. And, to vault me over him on your shit list, your poem has inter-couplet enjambment, which is also disallowed.)

No joke, does 'inter-couplet enjambment' mean the first line is incomplete without the second line?

 

[NorthernPA4U]

Just a couple of comments:

I think a number of people would try and help you with this. I would, if asked. (Just to note, I agree with NPA4U that none of those lines are iambic pentameter. And, to vault me over him on your shit list, your poem has inter-couplet enjambment, which is also disallowed.)

I don't think we are on her shit list. Sometimes people just get frustrated. We've been chatting off the boards some; I find here quite endearing, and I hope she finds me at least pleasant to talk to.

As you know, the ORIGINAL forms listing didn't detail the couplet requirements. This may have been brewing in her head, and she got frustrated. It happens.

I would agree that a lot of the advantage of the contest is just in the fact that it gets a person writing in ways that are not feeding their habits. There's nothing wrong with a little work ... it's the hardest work that makes a person better.

[*]Write what you want to write and stop worrying about the contest. (I am already questioning whether it is a good use of my time. I have some personal issues that have made it useful to me, but my circumstances have changed and I'm beginning to find it, frankly, kind of boring.)

Well, this would be sad to me, because you've written some good pieces for the contest. But, as you say, each person must tend to his own needs and desires, and is best suited to make those judgments.

No joke, does 'inter-couplet enjambment' mean the first line is incomplete without the second line?

That would be intra-couplet enjambment.

 

[pushkine]

No joke, does 'inter-couplet enjambment' mean the first line is incomplete without the second line?

No joke assumed.

Lauren's defintion of the form is "There may be enjambment within each couplet, but there shouldn't be any in between different couplets." I used "inter-couplet" to mean "Between; among:" (the first definition at The Free Dictionary).

This was intended to oppose "intra-couplet enjambment" (see The Free Dictionary again).

In other words, a heroic couplet (as defined by Lauren) may be enjambed within the couplet itself, but not between couplets.

I have no idea if this is correct historically, but it is my interpretation of how she has defined it, which is all that counts. Sorry. I mean, not that my interpretation of how she interprets it is what counts. What counts is how she interprets it.

All that matters in the contest.

Are you doing Survivor? You should. You're a good poet and your contest submissions would be interesting. On the other hand, you're probably writing better poems as is.

So. Carry on.

 

[pushkine]

Well, this would be sad to me, because you've written some good pieces for the contest. But, as you say, each person must tend to his own needs and desires, and is best suited to make those judgments.

You are hereby placed on my list of approved poets by spelling "judgments" correctly. (Well, anyway for an American. Please note: Residents of the UK may, and should, spell this word differently. Don't know about Canada. Little help?)

Thank you for your comment on my contest pieces. But let me ask you—do you think you're writing good poems for it? As good or better poems than you might otherwise?

If you are, my apologies and congratulations. I have enjoyed your poems. I just find myself writing lame-ass shit to conform to triggers and forms.

But, being basically a lame-ass poet, that may simply be my fate.

 

[NorthernPA4U]

You are hereby placed on my list of approved poets by spelling "judgments" correctly. (Well, anyway for an American. Please note: Residents of the UK may, and should, spell this word differently. Don't know about Canada. Little help?)

Thank you for your comment on my contest pieces. But let me ask you—do you think you're writing good poems for it? As good or better poems than you might otherwise?

If you are, my apologies and congratulations. I have enjoyed your poems. I just find myself writing lame-ass shit to conform to triggers and forms.

But, being basically a lame-ass poet, that may simply be my fate.

Well, I wasn't writing poems, though I have had thought to do so. Just the idea of doing it under some sort of competitive pressure is forcing me to write, and writing is never bad.

I think going through the combinations multiple times may be difficult, and a few of the triggers will make me wince on the additional times through, perhaps ... otoh, if I find it makes me think harder about what ALL the possibilities are, it can't hurt. Maybe it is my creativity that needs expansion. Actually, there's no maybe on that point; it does.

I have no problem with the forms at all, but the triggers ... well, I will have a better idea when I have worked through the list a second time.

Moreover, really trying to understand the "simple" haiku form has given me pause on what I actually want to say on that scene, and how to say it simply and well. I haven't submitted it yet for that very reason ... it makes me think hard about what I want to say. In the end, I will be better for it.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Ok I admit it I did a very childish thing I went off in a huff and pouted at what was really only the truth and no criticism intended. Nor has been very kind and I shouldn't have had such a bad reaction my only excuse is I thought all my work had gone to waste but Lauren has now pointed me in the right direction with it and I'm back on the rails again! At the start of the competition I was on a high with adrenalin I think and if you've ever done anything that gives you an adrenalin rush you will know what it feels like to come down (you should have seen me when I did my first abseil the adrenalin rush was fantastic but I was so tired when I came down again!)
Pushkine it's funny you should say about reading lips because I do that although I am not deaf unless I can see a persons lips when they speak and read them I can't 'hear' what they are saying very well. I don't think I am tone deaf (I sing pretty well!) but this rhythm within the poetry I find very hard to hear and as for the stressed syllables I'm just not getting it. I will try harder and try not to get huffy again I forget as mere males you don't understand these things!

 

[champagne1982]

You are hereby placed on my list of approved poets by spelling "judgments" correctly. (Well, anyway for an American. Please note: Residents of the UK may, and should, spell this word differently. Don't know about Canada. Little help?).

Canadians and the rest of the Commonwealth use the Queen's English. I take my spelling from the Oxford Dictionary thus am prone to slipping E and an extra L or superfluous U into many words the US citizens of this planet spell differently than I.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Canadians and the rest of the Commonwealth use the Queen's English. I take my spelling from the Oxford Dictionary thus am prone to slipping E and an extra L or superfluous U into many words the US citizens of this planet spell differently than I.

Is your pronunciation the same as English or the American way?
i.e origano (English orry - garrr - no) aluminium (English al - uuuuu - min - ium)

 

[champagne1982]

Is your pronunciation the same as English or the American way?
i.e origano (English orry - garrr - no) aluminium (English al - uuuuu - min - ium)

I think that is very regional. Much of my time growing up was spent under American English speakers' influence so my accent is influenced largely by what I heard.

Sometimes I muck it up and say alu-min-i-um and bah-zul (basil) but for the most part I keep the American pronunciation... Do note, Z will always be zed.

 

[annaswirls]

N
I have no idea if this is correct historically, but it is my interpretation of how she has defined it, which is all that counts. Sorry. I mean, not that my interpretation of how she interprets it is what counts. What counts is how she interprets it.

All that matters in the contest.

You should use this as your sig line. Would save you a lot of typing in your posts.

 

[annaswirls]

I think going through the combinations multiple times may be difficult, and a few of the triggers will make me wince on the additional times through, perhaps ... otoh, if I find it makes me think harder about what ALL the possibilities are, it can't hurt. Maybe it is my creativity that needs expansion. Actually, there's no maybe on that point; it does.

You have an excellent point here. I do not think I will go through more than once. It would be painful to have to write two poems about old ladies feeding pigeons or counter attack lesbians or etc.

Perhaps a second set of triggers could be written, with equal contributions from each person who is participating in the contest. That way it would be "fair" and would give good incentive to finish those first 50 triggers.

 

[annaswirls]

Well, I wasn't writing poems, though I have had thought to do so. Just the idea of doing it under some sort of competitive pressure is forcing me to write, and writing is never bad.


Moreover, really trying to understand the "simple" haiku form has given me pause on what I actually want to say on that scene, and how to say it simply and well. I haven't submitted it yet for that very reason ... it makes me think hard about what I want to say. In the end, I will be better for it.

I like your attitude. It is not only about writing A better poem, it is about becoming a better poet. The poems I am writing for the challenge are not my best in any measure. But in a year, I know I will be a better poet for having gone through the challenge.

Maybe Mr. Pushkine, you are so bored because you already know how to write all of the forms, you already have the ear for the meter, you already know all of the terminology, etc? So you feel the limitations and not the stretch.

 

[bflagsst]

Are you doing Survivor? You should. You're a good poet and your contest submissions would be interesting. On the other hand, you're probably writing better poems as is.

So. Carry on.

I love the forms, I'm learning a lot just from reading everyone's submissions. I've sorta hit a window of time where I can write everyday, so I don't really need a challenge to get me to write more(maybe I'm just a baby 'though). I once read that pushkin wrote for maybe one or two months out of the year then did nothing but chase girls for the other ten or so months. That's what I'm training for(not the girl chasing, the mastery of whatever my own style becomes.)

I submit poems here based on what I think the reader might get a kick out of. My other stuff does involve form poetry, so it's kinda serendipitous that I've come upon a thorough examination of most of the western forms. I quote Annaswirls below, but I'm talking about Pushkine, Angeline, just about everyone who's involved in the contest--I've read most of your recent submissions, and some aren't stellar, but I mean there are a few gems that have emerged from the contest I think are better than the rest of the work you've submitted over the years on this website.

"I like your attitude. It is not only about writing A better poem, it is about becoming a better poet. The poems I am writing for the challenge are not my best in any measure. But in a year, I know I will be a better poet for having gone through the challenge." -annaswirls

 

[annaswirls]

I love the forms, I'm learning a lot just from reading everyone's submissions. I've sorta hit a window of time where I can write everyday, so I don't really need a challenge to get me to write more(maybe I'm just a baby 'though). I once read that pushkin wrote for maybe one or two months out of the year then did nothing but chase girls for the other ten or so months. That's what I'm training for(not the girl chasing, the mastery of whatever my own style becomes.)

I submit poems here based on what I think the reader might get a kick out of. My other stuff does involve form poetry, so it's kinda serendipitous that I've come upon a thorough examination of most of the western forms. I quote Annaswirls below, but I'm talking about Pushkine, Angeline, just about everyone who's involved in the contest--I've read most of your recent submissions, and some aren't stellar, but I mean there are a few gems that have emerged from the contest I think are better than the rest of the work you've submitted over the years on this website.

"I like your attitude. It is not only about writing A better poem, it is about becoming a better poet. The poems I am writing for the challenge are not my best in any measure. But in a year, I know I will be a better poet for having gone through the challenge." -annaswirls

Wow, did I say that? Oh no, I had better get better and right quick!

You just do what you need to do-- there are years and years ahead of you for Survivor if you choose. I am just glad you will stick around while we flounder about in uncharted (for some of us) territory, and grace us with your company, talent, and support.

 

[annaswirls]

Is that a bad distraction or a Good distraction?

um.... were you saying something?

you need to put on pants if you want an intelligible answer.
besides "nice ass"

 

[IAboy]

um.... were you saying something?

you need to put on pants if you want an intelligible answer.
besides "nice ass"

Ohhhhh I see, just because of my Avatar, you think I'm not capable of having a serious discussion.... How enlightened of you.

 

[IAboy]

I can change it if it really bothers you that much. I just thought you would not be the kind of person to judge others before really getting to know them. I guess I was wrong. I thought you could help a fellow writer. I guess I was wrong there too. You must only help those whom you approve of. Ddamn Just ended a sentece with preposition. Bet you thought I'd be too stupid to realize that too.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I think it's Anna that's got trouble conversing with what's eyeballing her from your AV!!
Oh and by the way she's not like that at all I've not known her for very long but she's one of the most helpful people on here

 

[annaswirls]

I can change it if it really bothers you that much. I just thought you would not be the kind of person to judge others before really getting to know them. I guess I was wrong. I thought you could help a fellow writer. I guess I was wrong there too. You must only help those whom you approve of. Ddamn Just ended a sentece with preposition. Bet you thought I'd be too stupid to realize that too.

oh stop it now, I was just playing around and trying to pay you a compliment. I can concentrate plenty well with beautiful things around me. I help whoever I think I can when I can, sometimes I do not think I am the right person to help with a particular poem, and sometimes I am just in the mood for being silly. I get to do that, because I am here not as a career but as a hobby.

I am sorry I offended you. None intended. It was a while ago, I did not know you still needed help.

 

[annaswirls]

Ohhhhh I see, just because of my Avatar, you think I'm not capable of having a serious discussion.... How enlightened of you.

oh I really am sorry, this really does come across as condescending. I really was trying to be more self-deprecating (ala goofy boy crazy girl) and not insulting. I see my act did not work. Please accept my apologies, surely in time you will see I appreciate people not due to their av but their attitude

 

[annaswirls]

Do you have an updated version, or do you want me to work with the original?

I know you got some feedback (more than I can say for the poems I posted, and I am not complaining, just illustrating that not everything you post here will get a flood of help) You can feel free to go back and see mine too and offer me some help too. Everyone needs it, not just "new" poets."

I will even post an av with my oh so sexy ass so we can be even

I have a poem that I'm working on right now. IF anyone could tell me what you think of it and how I might make it better I would appreciate it.

Here it is....

Strength is more than lifting heavy objects
It’s lifting your heart up when it’s been crushed
Courage is more than bravery under fire
It’s living life slowly with purpose.
Life should never be rushed.
It should be lived each day know that each day we live
We have our own strength to show others
And inspire them by what we give
We redefine romance each time we set our heart
Out there for those to see and sometimes
its our mind that is set apart
From what we should know we cannot do
Strength is believing that we will survive
I’ve survived and so can you.

 

[IAboy]

Apology accepted. I'm sorry to for not taking your comments in the way they were intended. Here is another poem I wrote. Let me know what you think of this one.

 

[IAboy]

Beauty

Eye of beholders and where you see it
The wonder of her presence
The glow when her hair, by the sunlight, is hit
Both inside and out, the skin and the soul
I've seen it in you. I've seen it grow
I've seen what you sometimes don't
when you look in the mirror.
I've see what you can't. Is it fear or
Is it the eye rarely sees?
Into the person we know we can be.
I've seen though
The person you are
I know your flaws
The Rose petals, I've felt your claws.
I'm still here to let you know
The beauty on the skin and below

 

[annaswirls]

Apology accepted. I'm sorry to for not taking your comments in the way they were intended. Here is another poem I wrote. Let me know what you think of this one.

No apology necessary. These things happen all the time. I am afraid my ass is not very distracting! At least it will be a lesson in humility.