Poets' Corner - got a gripe? Air it here

[UnderYourSpell]

OMG, it's one of 12's alts

Goodness me, you know these traits how?!!

 

[twelveoone]

OMG, it's one of 12's alts

No, it is not.

 

[twelveoone]

Actually, do read the Parsing (authored by en.wikipedia) or similar articles. The introductory wikipedia statements provide a clear and TRUE definition.

Sorry, me bad.
Meant to say Pull it the fuck apart, and try to determine why the fuck it works or fails. I "borrowed" the term. It tends to describe unlike TRUE or PURE.

Writer>Poem<Reader, see there is a problem, text gets in the way. Text has to be effective to avoid
Writer>Poem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Reader
problem.

It is a game, sort of like, how do I make this...
interesting...
for all three parts.

 

[twelveoone]

well that was pointy

say the magic word


psst
AWESOME
as in you are

of course I think parsing is awesome too, live with it, you still scare me, though. or maybe I'm just baiting you. goading you.

into more awesomeness.

If I wasn't such an evil motherfucker...and lazy to boot

 

[Tsotha]

I would like to answer a few questions that came up and then I'm gonna work on a poem.

1. I am not Senna Jawa's guardian angel. It's true we have known each other for years and I consider him a friend. I may ignore stuff that he says that seems to outrage other people probably because I'm more habituated to him than many of you. That's not an excuse, folks. I've known him for at least twelve years now--one gets used to people. On the other hand, Senna and I have had some epic battles in the past, mainly with me going off on him because I thought he said something horrible to someone. So I do understand and this is why I tell people to use ignore. And if you won't do that then fight your own battles in a way that gives some space to those who just want to write.

2. I do not like to publicly beat up on people. It's humiliating and unfair imo. This has gotten me onto trouble here before because I really don't like to snark or dig at people. But wait you say: what about 1201, Angeline? You were horrible to him. Yep, I was pretty frustrated with him for a while there and because he was not (at least then) accepting private messages, I could only communicate with him by posting on the forum--maybe I could have emailed him via Lit, but I didn't think of it at the time. So yeah I was frustrated and said things I should have said more diplomatically and would have preferred to say in private. I have known 1201 since at least 2005 and though he makes me crazy at times, of course I like him. He is part of the family here.

3. Now let's talk about moving posts or threads (and I am sorry Magnetron but there ain't no ban hammer: I have no authority to ban anyone). I hate to move posts or threads. Hate it. So why did I do it? As I said, I want to maintain some balance on these two forums between poetry writing threads and poetry discussion threads. And yes, I get that some people like to do both in the same thread and we do have that option, too. Normally having a mix of discussion and writing threads in the same forum is not an issue. However when a single person comes on the forum and starts numerous discussion threads per day on the main forum, the writing threads all get bumped down. If we could just be more considerate of each other this would not be an issue.

As far as deleting stuff because of content, well Tzara I will give you that one. It's too much of a gray area for me to make objective decisions some of the time. Tsotha, deleting your v1 and v2 was not meant to be discourteous but to be clear about not posting content from a pm. That's a big no-no at Lit and it does get people banned.

I have tried to make what I've thought were the right decisions at the time. Obviously sometimes I screw up. For what it's worth when I recognize that, I have remorse. But to me the bottom line is that if we ignore selectively and save our "fuck yous" for our friends who don't care when we say it, we should be fine. I am not saying I will never move anything again, but I will try not to, and to limit it to spam and stuff like the outing of personal info. I am one person and that is the best I can do. And if you value this place as I do--because why else would I stay at this point?--you will try to be reasonable and remember that overall it's about poetry. This is not and will never be the GB.


That's all I got. Except this:

Piss off: I'm workin for Mel Brooks.

Again, you made an open accusation. How about showing us the evidence, now?

In the meantime, since you deleted my v2 due to breaking rule #5, you can go ahead and do the same to these:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773766#post55773766
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773154#post55773154
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773010#post55773010
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55772242#post55772242
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55745918#post55745918

(See, Champagne? I actually do WANT moderation.)

Except you won't. You do not like beating up people publicly, or starting drama and public brawls... as long as it involves a friend of yours. You have no qualms about calling out people you don't like in public, or making accusations you won't support with evidence, or at the very least apologize for.

Just imagine what a lovely place this would be if everyone acted like Senna Jawa. For a little taste of it, just look back three weeks, when I did the stupid thing and decided to deliberately mimic Senna Jawa's behavior, saying his poem was bad.

What truly pisses me off is your victimization of Senna Jawa. Your unwillingness to apply the rules to all speaks volumes.

So fine, you can keep your Senna Jawa vivarium. I'm out of here.

To the other poets, see you on the other side — you know, the one without rules, but that at least has no rules for everyone.

 

[Magnetron]

No, it is not.

He said as if gingerly nudging away with his foot a flaming brown paper bag of dog poop from his doorstep.

So fine, you can keep your Senna Jawa vivarium. I'm out of here.

To the other poets, see you on the other side — you know, the one without rules, but that at least has no rules for everyone.

I for one will not be leaving.

And should anyone attempt to insult me, I shall lyrically assault him or her with ruthless and reckless abandon.

Mock mock mocketty mock mock

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Mocking bird hill?

 

[Magnetron]

Mocking bird hill?

1313 Mockingbird Lane

 

[pelegrino]

Re-submissions

the latest amend into my personal thread:
AMEND 1

Items:
Delay (13/3/2014)
A Second Call (13/3/2014)
Week End Currents (13/2/2014)
To "The Brethren" (21/3/2014)

have been transferred from chapter "TO HAVE AND HAVE NOT" into next chapter "HOMELESS, JOBLESS, PENNILESS"

Obviously they need re-submission but that's too much work and too tedious. Literotica submissions page is just such an unfit and restricting place to move submitted items about. And its preoccupation with "unity of look" sounds silly to me.
Any suggestions?

 

[twelveoone]

He said as if gingerly nudging away with his foot a flaming brown paper bag of dog poop from his doorstep.



I for one will not be leaving.

And should anyone attempt to insult me, I shall lyrically assault him or her with ruthless and reckless abandon.

Mock mock mocketty mock mock

All of this is fine. My "no it is not." was not addressed to you, it was addressed to Harry.

What you did in this response, is state "rules of engagement" , that is fine also.
Senna has stated his "rules of engagement" more than once, at with this last set of comments - I find it difficult to believe - that I am considered "unmannered", while somehow he escapes.

The reason I am on his "ignore" list, is because he did the same to me, and after handing him his head more than once, he plays suck up to the mods. Claims he is being baited, no, he baited Tso, found a bigger fish than he bargained.

Tsotha is a bigger asset to lit, I am a bigger asset to lit, butters is one of the best assets of lit, why because we show an interest. Senna does not, hiding behind "pure poetry" does not impress me. And after 10 years, I do not recollect him ever getting excited about someone else's work.

For him to associate the word "hypocrisy" with butters is a gross violation of...

reality.

As far as poetry goes, having a good reader far outweighs output of poetry, let alone "pure poetry", and butters is one of the best.

It all has to do with relative value, doesn't it?

All that said, strangely enough, I am one of Senna's strongest supporters, as all to often this place descends to
GASP - generally accepted standardized poetry, and his view is outside that.

As far as you two mockingbirds remember the "rules of engagement" and know the enemy as yourself.
Know yourself, as that may be the worst enemy of all others you may encounter.

 

[twelveoone]

Again, you made an open accusation. How about showing us the evidence, now?

In the meantime, since you deleted my v2 due to breaking rule #5, you can go ahead and do the same to these:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773766#post55773766
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773154#post55773154
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55773010#post55773010
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55772242#post55772242
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=55745918#post55745918

(See, Champagne? I actually do WANT moderation.)

Except you won't. You do not like beating up people publicly, or starting drama and public brawls... as long as it involves a friend of yours. You have no qualms about calling out people you don't like in public, or making accusations you won't support with evidence, or at the very least apologize for.

Just imagine what a lovely place this would be if everyone acted like Senna Jawa. For a little taste of it, just look back three weeks, when I did the stupid thing and decided to deliberately mimic Senna Jawa's behavior, saying his poem was bad.

What truly pisses me off is your victimization of Senna Jawa. Your unwillingness to apply the rules to all speaks volumes.

So fine, you can keep your Senna Jawa vivarium. I'm out of here.

To the other poets, see you on the other side — you know, the one without rules, but that at least has no rules for everyone.

And mine too, and all I did was mimic and invert a process. Your "bad" poem far outweighs either his or mine. Ersatz profundity or vagueness versus something you can actually get your fingers on. In my view you won.
Keep in mind Senna's poem being "mocked" is the second poem. Nothing was said about the first, which if memory is right, had a personal pronoun. I'm to lazy to check, but I think that is one of the "bad things" in Tsotha's poem.

 

[bronzeage]

Someone has one around here somewhere, I know that from personal experience.

There are some forums where everyone is required to be polite and behave. They don't have to like each other, but they have to maintain propriety. I mod on such a board and I get 3 or 4 emails a day, which complain of insults, derails, and threads started in the wrong category. It's all great fun.

It was a long time ago when Literotica grew too large for this kind of nanny moderation. Lit is a business and Laurel is too smart to put too much power in the hands of people she barely knows. Part of the price we pay for having access to a place like Lit is we have to tolerate a certain amount of nasty behavior from some people.

Nobody should feel special, if they get singled out for bad treatment. Jackasses and douchebags are jackasses and douchebags, everywhere they go. Anyone whose feelings are too sensitive for this kind of abuse should find other things to occupy their time. There are plenty of "play nice" poetry sites.

A Lit mod has very limited powers, compared to other sites. Someone exercised very poor judgment and made me a "Supermod" on one site. I get a cape and a mask, which is pretty silly. I can delete post, delete threads, hand out infractions, suspend or ban people. I could, if I wanted to. I can see IP addresses and identify alts. Since everything I ever needed to know, I learned from Literotica, I tend to use a very light hand on those sorts of things. A Lit mod has the ability to make a spam thread or post disappear. It's not actually deleted, it just can't be seen.

A Lit mod cannot see IP addresses, which certainly would be interesting. Lit does not place a limit on how many accounts a person can create. I know there are some people who have accounts for each forum. They have a general account and keep separate user names of role playing and personals. That makes sense on some level. Being able to see IP addresses could be used to invade privacy, and as I said above, Lit is a business. That sort of thing would be bad for business.

Even the neighborhood bar where everyone knows your name is still a business. They want your business and will put up with a lot of shit to get it. If someone's behavior starts to interfere with the business, they have to go. Until that point, there's always at least one loud drunk in a bar and no reason to pay them any more attention than they are due.

 

[theognis]

There are some forums where everyone is required to be polite and behave. They don't have to like each other, but they have to maintain propriety. I mod on such a board and I get 3 or 4 emails a day, which complain of insults, derails, and threads started in the wrong category. It's all great fun.

It was a long time ago when Literotica grew too large for this kind of nanny moderation. Lit is a business and Laurel is too smart to put too much power in the hands of people she barely knows. Part of the price we pay for having access to a place like Lit is we have to tolerate a certain amount of nasty behavior from some people.

Nobody should feel special, if they get singled out for bad treatment. Jackasses and douchebags are jackasses and douchebags, everywhere they go. Anyone whose feelings are too sensitive for this kind of abuse should find other things to occupy their time. There are plenty of "play nice" poetry sites.

A Lit mod has very limited powers, compared to other sites. Someone exercised very poor judgment and made me a "Supermod" on one site. I get a cape and a mask, which is pretty silly. I can delete post, delete threads, hand out infractions, suspend or ban people. I could, if I wanted to. I can see IP addresses and identify alts. Since everything I ever needed to know, I learned from Literotica, I tend to use a very light hand on those sorts of things. A Lit mod has the ability to make a spam thread or post disappear. It's not actually deleted, it just can't be seen.

A Lit mod cannot see IP addresses, which certainly would be interesting. Lit does not place a limit on how many accounts a person can create. I know there are some people who have accounts for each forum. They have a general account and keep separate user names of role playing and personals. That makes sense on some level. Being able to see IP addresses could be used to invade privacy, and as I said above, Lit is a business. That sort of thing would be bad for business.

Even the neighborhood bar where everyone knows your name is still a business. They want your business and will put up with a lot of shit to get it. If someone's behavior starts to interfere with the business, they have to go. Until that point, there's always at least one loud drunk in a bar and no reason to pay them any more attention than they are due.

That was a very interesting and informative post, bronzeage. Explains a number of things I'd wondered about. Thanks.

 

[butters]

Even the neighborhood bar where everyone knows your name is still a business. They want your business and will put up with a lot of shit to get it. If someone's behavior starts to interfere with the business, they have to go. Until that point, there's always at least one loud drunk in a bar and no reason to pay them any more attention than they are due.

and what if it's the bar manager who drives customers away?


tsotha, in this instance, wasn't reacting to senna; he was reacting to a situation he found unfair, and was driven to more vigorous response by the misjudgement (in more than my eyes) of someone who's acting moderator here. it is not my intention to 'attack' Angeline, and i am only restating my earlier thoughts.

champers, to paraphrase, says 'fairness' is not part of the deal; well, if it's not, i'm disappointed. the way i see it? fairness is paramount when dealing with forum members. if we all sit back and say 'pish and tosh, fairness is a moon pie', then what kind of community does that forebode? For what it's worth, and during the time i've been a member, deviations from 'fairness' have largely been addressed by various voices and we sail on a reasonably level keel. When voices are raised, sometimes one has to listen to what's being said (despite the shouting) and reflect - not just eject the 'loud drunk'. maybe the person is being 'loud' for good reason. ometimes it's only a case of the boy crying wolf. this instance was not that case.

 

[HarryHill]

No, it is not.

couldn't help myself the reference to Miley was too tempting

 

[bronzeage]

and what if it's the bar manager who drives customers away?


tsotha, in this instance, wasn't reacting to senna; he was reacting to a situation he found unfair, and was driven to more vigorous response by the misjudgement (in more than my eyes) of someone who's acting moderator here. it is not my intention to 'attack' Angeline, and i am only restating my earlier thoughts.

champers, to paraphrase, says 'fairness' is not part of the deal; well, if it's not, i'm disappointed. the way i see it? fairness is paramount when dealing with forum members. if we all sit back and say 'pish and tosh, fairness is a moon pie', then what kind of community does that forebode? For what it's worth, and during the time i've been a member, deviations from 'fairness' have largely been addressed by various voices and we sail on a reasonably level keel. When voices are raised, sometimes one has to listen to what's being said (despite the shouting) and reflect - not just eject the 'loud drunk'. maybe the person is being 'loud' for good reason. ometimes it's only a case of the boy crying wolf. this instance was not that case.

My post does not address any specific or particular situation. I am just stating the reality of Literotica.

If the bar manager is driving people away, that's a problem for the bar owner. The patrons have limited options. Either leaving or staying and complaining, are pretty much it.

I don't do a lot of modding around here, because as I stated earlier, there is not a lot which can be done and adults do not need a referee. If there is to be any attempt at fairness, the only possible way to be fair is to do nothing to anyone, unless they violate the general Lit TOS. Insults, however unwarranted, are not a violation. Every post comes with an icon that will send an email straight to my inbox. I will be happy to carefully consider any complaint on any issue.

 

[champagne1982]

<snip>
champers, to paraphrase, says 'fairness' is not part of the deal;

My whole statement about fairness in context:

<snip>... If anyone has a genuine concern or complaint with anyone else on this site IM Laurel and let her handle it. This is not parliament or congress or a court of law. Fairness isn't necessary, compliance to the Literotica guidelines is.

I didn't talk about what anyone signed up for, or deals. I said it wasn't necessary meaning that nice-to-haves aren't part of what the site owners care about in operating their business. Otherwise, there'd be a kinder, gentler General Board here than what exists now.

 

[Magnetron]

A Lit mod has very limited powers, compared to other sites. Someone exercised very poor judgment and made me a "Supermod" on one site. I get a cape and a mask, which is pretty silly. I can delete post, delete threads, hand out infractions, suspend or ban people. I could, if I wanted to. I can see IP addresses and identify alts. Since everything I ever needed to know, I learned from Literotica, I tend to use a very light hand on those sorts of things. A Lit mod has the ability to make a spam thread or post disappear. It's not actually deleted, it just can't be seen.

A Lit mod cannot see IP addresses, which certainly would be interesting. Lit does not place a limit on how many accounts a person can create. I know there are some people who have accounts for each forum. They have a general account and keep separate user names of role playing and personals. That makes sense on some level. Being able to see IP addresses could be used to invade privacy, and as I said above, Lit is a business. That sort of thing would be bad for business.

I always found it entertaining to swap avatars of others and install customized signatures into their old posts like I'm really not this much of a douchebag in real life.

And as for IP addresses ..... with the right tools, you don't even need mod powers to uncover those and use them in determining who has multiple alts.

 

[bronzeage]

I always found it entertaining to swap avatars of others and install customized signatures into their old posts like I'm really not this much of a douchebag in real life.

And as for IP addresses ..... with the right tools, you don't even need mod powers to uncover those and use them in determining who has multiple alts.

Maybe so, but it would require more effort than I am willing to put into the project.

Maybe that's why they asked me to be a supermod.

 

[twelveoone]

couldn't help myself the reference to Miley was too tempting

I knew what it was. vis a vis peanuts remark, my mistake there.

Regarding Tsotha he gave Senna a taste of what he dishes out.
Regarding me, I did also in regards to his poem, isn't that Feedback, as in Poetry Feedback and Discussion?
His poem had a null set, cancelling out itself, leaving one image that of Nosferatu.
My poem opened the set, however the most likely reading would be that of a dead man, or it could be about meth or it could be...
Tsotha had a real poem, we did not.
My threads removed, I interpret as I know nothing about either poetry, feedback and or discussion, which amazes me, since I can pull them apart, eh? Without the TRUTH, PURE POETRY bullshit.
Now what is Poetry Feedback and Discussion?
Define it.

As is now it looks like a showcase, and closed loop criticism. And no criticism what so ever about moderator or lack of moderator action. Is that what you want? And I remember the FREE SPEECH sign they once hung on the door. Christ, they give it to anons. And the vote too.

 

[Tsotha]

I don't do a lot of modding around here, because as I stated earlier, there is not a lot which can be done and adults do not need a referee.

That's an interesting claim, but it's pretty obvious for anyone connected to reality that adults do, indeed, "need" referees, in so far as adults "need" to go out on the street and expect to find a civilized society. It's educated people who need less refereeing.

Part of the price we pay for having access to a place like Lit is we have to tolerate a certain amount of nasty behavior from some people.

A "certain amount" is an undefined amount, and since there is in practice no moderation (since there are no rules), moderation depends on who is who's friend. Let the ass kissing begin.

Anyone whose feelings are too sensitive for this kind of abuse should find other things to occupy their time. There are plenty of "play nice" poetry sites. (...) The patrons have limited options. Either leaving or staying and complaining, are pretty much it. (...) Insults, however unwarranted, are not a violation.

Options:

1) React and be seen as an inconvenience
2) Leave and be seen as a "drama queen"
3) Don't complain, and conform to the clique.

Nice system, there. Hard to imagine why there are only about 10 regulars here. I wonder how many have left because they were "too sensitive".

 

[bronzeage]

That's an interesting claim, but it's pretty obvious for anyone connected to reality that adults do, indeed, "need" referees, in so far as adults "need" to go out on the street and expect to find a civilized society. It's educated people who need less refereeing.



A "certain amount" is an undefined amount, and since there is in practice no moderation (since there are no rules), moderation depends on who is who's friend. Let the ass kissing begin.



Options:

1) React and be seen as an inconvenience
2) Leave and be seen as a "drama queen"
3) Don't complain, and conform to the clique.

Nice system, there. Hard to imagine why there are only about 10 regulars here. I wonder how many have left because they were "too sensitive".

I never said it was a nice system. I said it is our system.

I think 10 regulars on a poetry board is doing pretty good. I've participated in quite a few, and a dozen regular users is not bad. We need to keep in mind, this is the discussion forum, not the poetry forum. I just checked and found 49 poems posted in the past week, in the Poetry forum, including an ode titled, "My Shit Assed Beauty." What can I say, except seven poems a day is a good volume.

Most strictly poetry only forums require a member to comment on three poems for every poem posted. We don't do that. Comments generally degenerate into a generic, "Read this an enjoyed it."

As for the options?
1) React and be seen as an inconvenience
For whom. It doesn't bother me to deal with complaints. I took the job and I'll do the best I can. Often, I can do nothing, which is good because most of the time that's the best choice. Then again, if no one makes a complaint (the little report icon) or sends me a pm, don't expect me to go raking through threads to find potential renegades.

2) Leave and be seen as a "drama queen"
There is no door to slam and no one can hear the tires spinning down the street, so exit drama is limited to farewell threads. If a person is leaving, why would they care if they are seen as a drama queen?

3) Don't complain, and conform to the clique.
What clique? With only 10 people, we'll all be sitting two to a table in the cafeteria. How will we tell which is the cool kid's table?

 

[theognis]

3) Don't complain, and conform to the clique.
What clique? With only 10 people, we'll all be sitting two to a table in the cafeteria. How will we tell which is the cool kid's table?

I'm surprised you don't realize there are cliques here. As I said, they are inevitable, especially in a place like this. Your choices, if your goal is to remain here without making waves, are pretty much to simply accept that reality, or to deny it completely, which is what you've apparently done. And more than ten people have contributed to this thread alone, by the way. There are a lot of regulars and semi-regulars here, and plenty of occasionals, plus a bunch of lurkers who frequent the place, all of whom have the ability, for example, to vote fives for their friends or drop bombs on others any time they wish. It's not that big a deal to most of us, but it is reality.

 

[champagne1982]

I'm surprised you don't realize there are cliques here. As I said, they are inevitable, especially in a place like this. Your choices, if your goal is to remain here without making waves, are pretty much to simply accept that reality, or to deny it completely, which is what you've apparently done. And more than ten people have contributed to this thread alone, by the way. There are a lot of regulars and semi-regulars here, and plenty of occasionals, plus a bunch of lurkers who frequent the place, all of whom have the ability, for example, to vote fives for their friends or drop bombs on others any time they wish. It's not that big a deal to most of us, but it is reality.

I have voting turned off most of my poems annnd I don't generally vote on posted poems. I will comment on poetry found here on a thread, but usually only if asked and if I want to. What part of the clique are you? We all play roles, so you must have one. Sheesh.

 

[theognis]

I have voting turned off most of my poems annnd I don't generally vote on posted poems. I will comment on poetry found here on a thread, but usually only if asked and if I want to. What part of the clique are you? We all play roles, so you must have one. Sheesh.

As I said, I don't like cliques, so I don't belong to any.