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I think medicine is a good parallel. There is, so I am lead to believe by anecdote, but have no evidence, , a higher than average number of sociopathic tendency among certain medical professionals. Its not necessarily, as I understand the argument, perceived as a wholly bad thing, as it protects the individual from emotional involvement that if they were to not have that sort of personality tendency would emotionally cripple them from doing their job ( and I believe rather than talking about full blown sociopath on dr end of scale, we are edging op down a profile scale). As one who deals a fair bit with consultants and surgeons in a personal capacity I feel this is a truism but accept this is from a very biased angle.
If this is indeed more than anecdote, I wonder if similar profile has been done on police. And if anyone has been bold enough to break it down it to any profile of 'good' policing ( based on what might be cause for further probably un useful debate....so I won't go there....).
But I also feel condemn a group of people by job and there is another problem.
But I also feel condemn a group of people by job and there is another problem.
Iris: That certainly sounds reasonable. I don't disagree with that at all. And, that 99% figure might be a tad high. I mean there is absolutely no profession anywhere where there aren't some bad apples, including the police. There are so many police and police forces around the country that these stories will continue to pop up but you don't hear much about all the cases where something went right or the police went above and beyond their duty. It's unfair and unreasonable to brand all police bad based on the stories that make the news. It is a very one sided perspective and the media is doubling down on their coverage now.
Locally we just had an incident where the police chased a suspect into the woods and fired, hitting the person in the foot. The police spokesman made a point of telling the media that it was a white suspect and a white cop. A few months ago they wouldn't have made a point of saying that right up front. While bad cops should be weeded out we can't make the police as a whole afraid to do their jobs, especially when their own lives might be in jeopardy.
Like I said, I really don't care what you believe; especially since you have 0 solutions for problems that you do readily recognize. I really don't. I'm interested in really talking with two kinds of people: people who are out there, accomplishing real things, whether I agree with their endgame or not, and people who are receptive to the project that I consider myself part of. Politically engaging with anyone else, you and Keroin included, is a huge waste of time and energy.
Well I hope not, because that's less than a sparknotes version with all the big words edited out.
At any rate, I'm not going to have this discussion here, like I've been trying to say for several posts now. You wanna talk about all your beefs with libertarianism? Start a new thread or continue doing so here without me. It's not going to be nearly as fun when I stop replying, though.
"The police" aren't a collection of otherwise good individuals just trying to pay the bills, "the police" are an institution that is structurally toxic, as is evidenced by all of the origin stories I shared that you obviously didn't read. They literally evolved from slave patrols in the south.
"The law" that they defend is not objective, nor is it ever applied nondiscriminatory among all citizens of this country.
Read about the history of usury, of capitalism, of the commons, and then you can talk to me about facts.
Agee, on all points. But it I suppose reminds me of the question I think perhaps it was you raised else where on a nother topic of 'what's/who neutral?' And as we all have character 'failings' or idiosyncrasies we might all tip a scale in some areas we might consider unpleasant in society, I mean.....some here share some aspects of that in common at least and have made joy with that which some parts of society are uncomfortable with.
And I think the point Kopilot might have validity over, that where there is rot, ill rather than might be attracted.
But I also feel condemn a group of people by job and there is another problem.
Um, yeah actually that's more or less the entire point of voluntary association. Why would I want to build a community with people that don't want to even be in that communtity? The point you've missed since you started freaking out about my position is that, unlike you, I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Your supporting the police is your supporting making completely harmless people do what you want them to do against their will because you're scared of a few bogeymen "out there". You're doing a lot more shoving down my throat than I am anyone else's, even in completely theoretical terms.Don't worry, I won't pollute your echo chamber any further. I'm too busy doing nothing of value.
Your concept of law enforcement history is just plain wrong. For starters, read the Wiki entry "Police" which cites the prefecture structure in ancient China, the Roman vigiles, and the medieval Spanish hermandades.
American policing began while we were still a colony, in Boston.
http://www.nleomf.org/museum/news/n...days-american-law-enforcement-april-2012.html
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/enforcement/impdates.html
It had little to do with slavery and much to do with the regrettably human behaviors such as robbery and assault. People have been doing crappy things to each other since we crawled out of the mud.
Oh, absolutely.
This is why "The police are people too" means that there is a good portion of problematic people to begin with. Then I think that the culture and the specifics of the job draws in a somewhat higher percentage of them that a random sample of "people" would contain.
LE =/= police
LE =/= police
LE =/= police
Grats, you're arguing against a strawman.
I linked to a study that proved police are domestic abusers at 2-4x the rate of the general population a while back. I don't think anyone read it.
And Hitler was a great uncle or whatever, I hear. So what? Positive stories don't mean anything on their own.Ummm, you said "police", I referred you to the Wiki entry on Police.
You have cherry-picked as many negative stories on local police, FBI, state police, as your busy fingers could find. Somehow I doubt you would willingly bring yourself to doing so with positive stories on the same agencies. You're writing your narrative purely to suit your own rationalizations.
I think this a a very good and interesting point. Its changed a lot over the years too.
In mainly peace time some service men saw trauma, but often less often than police men, ....depending of course where the policeman is and what type of policing he does. I also think there must be a lot of trauma involved in seeing some of the worst of people daily In your own environment 'not on the news' yet just as being anti was is less contentious, hating police routinely is less contentious and rarely are they considered 'heroic' in the way service men are, for just doing their jobs. ( tbc. I do not think its heroic, but I do think some roles must be very traumatic).
Aren't readers and contributors of publications like The Nation often left leaning middle and upper 'class' ( keeping another debate to the side). I'm sure there are pieces touching police 'value' in the Nation. And, presuming we are talking about American society here, which to my regret and not by my choice is fairly limited these days to upper and upper middle socioeconomic brackets regretfully, then, no, I am not kidding you, and yes, my experience is different. You might enjoy some of that debate, but it am pretty sure you would find a lot of the company despicable