Police are people, too

[BiBunny]

This. It's just this simple. Also "came at with knife" is usually report for "had knife in hand, shit hit the fan before we could adequately figure out why."

I'm quoting you because your comment made me think of something, not because I am at all arguing this point.

This happened in my county a couple of months ago.

If you don't want to read the link, this is one of those "man shot by police after refusing to drop knife" stories. From all indications, dude was a nutjob who was threatening both himself and the responding officers. They hit the guy with a stun gun three different times, and he continued to be a danger to himself and others, and an officer did eventually shoot him.

However, the guy was not killed and is currently sitting in jail, awaiting a grand jury hearing.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if the officers in this little shithole town (who aren't exactly outfitted for the apocalypse or anything) can manage to bring down an armed man who is threatening both himself and the officers WITHOUT killing him, you wouldn't think it'd be so fucking hard for better-equipped officers in larger towns to do the same thing. But what the fuck do I know, right?

(Full disclosure: The perpetrator in question is a white man. How this would've gone down had he been a person of color, I can't even begin to guess. But, still, the point remains.)

 

[KoPilot]

Man arrested without incident after armed standoff

Armed man arrested by police following incident in Wausau

SWAT team responds in Moorpark; man arrested without incident

...and so on and so forth.

A knife ain't shit.

 

[KoPilot]

Cop Tasers Teenage Cuffed Girl - It's actually worse than that the headline. The girl gets tased in the back while trying to get away while cuffed, hits the ground and is brain dead now. Why the cop just didn't, I dunno, jog after her instead is a mystery, but at least he's been absolved of any wrongdoing.

 

[Keroin]

LE =/= police.

This is what people can't get through their heads.

Okay, I'll bite.

So, if the world was put in your hands to re-structure, or just the USA, tell me what it would like? Specifically in regards to the law and LE.

 

[KoPilot]

Okay, I'll bite.

So, if the world was put in your hands to re-structure, or just the USA, tell me what it would like? Specifically in regards to the law and LE.

I'm anti-authoritarian, so I'm not even interested in answering this question. Gonna tell you what I told Netz a few pages back; if you'd really like to have a dialogue with me, you need to shed a lot of preconcieved notions about how you think the world works, should work, and can work, and do some reading on serious socialist libertarian literature on the subject.

So instead, here, have another funny article:

The FBI Created and Foiled Its Own Terror Plot…Again

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Bramblethorn]

Cop Tasers Teenage Cuffed Girl - It's actually worse than that the headline. The girl gets tased in the back while trying to get away while cuffed, hits the ground and is brain dead now. Why the cop just didn't, I dunno, jog after her instead is a mystery, but at least he's been absolved of any wrongdoing.

Did we do this one?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investi...youth-shot-himself-death-says-coroner-n185016

Victor White III "shot himself" while in police custody. With his hands cuffed behind his back. After having being searched twice. Position of the bullet wound contradicted police accounts of what happened. Coroner ruled it suicide.

 

[Keroin]

I'm anti-authoritarian, so I'm not even interested in answering this question. Gonna tell you what I told Netz a few pages back; if you'd really like to have a dialogue with me, you need to shed a lot of preconcieved notions about how you think the world works, should work, and can work, and do some reading on serious socialist libertarian literature on the subject.

So instead, here, have another funny article:

The FBI Created and Foiled Its Own Terror Plot…Again

Conversation doesn't work like that. I don't demand you learn about the mechanics of fiction before I will lower myself to speak with you about what I think makes a good story.

I haven't been here in a while. You seem very changed KoPilot. Very angry and oppositional. You're angry that no one here understands you or sees your point of view yet you won't engage in dialogue when offered the opportunity. This is counter-intuitive. Anyway, I hope you're okay. I've always enjoyed talking with you on this forum.

 

[KoPilot]

Conversation doesn't work like that. I don't demand you learn about the mechanics of fiction before I will lower myself to speak with you about what I think makes a good story.

I haven't been here in a while. You seem very changed KoPilot. Very angry and oppositional. You're angry that no one here understands you or sees your point of view yet you won't engage in dialogue when offered the opportunity. This is counter-intuitive. Anyway, I hope you're okay. I've always enjoyed talking with you on this forum.

Well for the one thing, I don't see this thread as an appropriate place to have a discussion about my specific beliefs regarding what "should" replace any system or institution that we currently have. I'm just here to remind us all that, while the police are indeed people, the job of policing seems to attract the scumbags in much higher concentrations than many other professions.

And I ask that you research my general philosophical outlook before engaging me because it is apparent that you don't even know the 101 material. If I wanted to have a debate with you about stunt work--not an educational discussion where one person talks and the other learns, but one where we are both on the same page of where to even start--and my first question revealed that I had no prior knowledge of what stunt work even was, that wouldn't be an equal engagement, a two-way street, would it? I'm just asking that our discussion at least be a two-way street so that I don't spent all me energy fighting strawmen and correcting misconceptions.

Yes, I've changed since I first joined. I'm still a dork with a goofy since of humor, but I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the world that I'm to inherit. I'm mad that becades of mismanagement has left my state with 12 months of water. I'm mad that I have to worry about facial-recognition software in public spaces. I'm mad that the ocean will be full of jellyfish and algae, and little else by mid century. That my cousins' children will probably never have the opportunity to eat wild-caught ocean fish. I'm mad that people are excited about the arctic melting because it will be good for business. I'm mad that lynching mobs still exist. I'm mad that there are more vacant homes in this country than homeless.

Can you BLAME me for being angry?

I'm fine, though. Actually, I've never been better. I'm finally making money off what I love to do, I'll have the opportunity to do a lot of traveling through Cascadia in a month or so. I've been meeting lots of exciting people, and that's only going to continue.

I'm pissed, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm just sitting here stewing in it. I'm getting out there and letting it motivate me to act in real, concrete ways. I volunteer. I engage in political debates. I live my life according to my values, and I am always challenging myself. Not sure how many other people, angry or otherwise, could say the same.

To answer your question in a way that we both might find somewhat sufficient: I'll take the disarming and demilitarization of police forces in the US as a start, and no less.

 

[Keroin]

Well for the one thing, I don't see this thread as an appropriate place to have a discussion about my specific beliefs regarding what "should" replace any system or institution that we currently have. I'm just here to remind us all that, while the police are indeed people, the job of policing seems to attract the scumbags in much higher concentrations than many other professions.

That makes sense. In which case, perhaps higher standards are in order? I was shocked to learn from an LE friend that the educational requirement for his department was only highschool graduation or GED. The Vancouver police require a minimum of a college degree. That alone would weed out a high number of scumbags.

And I ask that you research my general philosophical outlook before engaging me because it is apparent that you don't even know the 101 material. If I wanted to have a debate with you about stunt work--not an educational discussion where one person talks and the other learns, but one where we are both on the same page of where to even start--and my first question revealed that I had no prior knowledge of what stunt work even was, that wouldn't be an equal engagement, a two-way street, would it? I'm just asking that our discussion at least be a two-way street so that I don't spent all me energy fighting strawmen and correcting misconceptions.

I understand what you’re saying but there’s a fundamental difference here. Most people have encountered movies in their lifetime and understand at the very least what a stunt is and what stunt people do. If I ran into someone who genuinely did not know, I would offer an explanation if a conversation was desired. The only time I will refuse to provide someone with basic information is when I know they are merely attempting to derail a conversation, (which I assure you was not my intention).

I don’t know your philosophical outlook and I didn’t chime in to spend hours researching the personal views of everyone involved in this thread. Sorry, I don’t have time for that. Even the time to write this is more than I should be taking away from my work!

I understand if you don’t want to fill me in and I respect that. I’ll simply have to disengage from the conversation.

Yes, I've changed since I first joined. I'm still a dork with a goofy since of humor, but I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the world that I'm to inherit. I'm mad that becades of mismanagement has left my state with 12 months of water. I'm mad that I have to worry about facial-recognition software in public spaces. I'm mad that the ocean will be full of jellyfish and algae, and little else by mid century. That my cousins' children will probably never have the opportunity to eat wild-caught ocean fish. I'm mad that people are excited about the arctic melting because it will be good for business. I'm mad that lynching mobs still exist. I'm mad that there are more vacant homes in this country than homeless.

Can you BLAME me for being angry?

I do not blame you at all. No blame, just an observation. I feel the same anger, I’ve just chosen not to let it colour my interactions with other people.

I'm fine, though. Actually, I've never been better. I'm finally making money off what I love to do, I'll have the opportunity to do a lot of traveling through Cascadia in a month or so. I've been meeting lots of exciting people, and that's only going to continue.

Cascadia? Cool! Will you be making it up as far as BC?

I'm pissed, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm just sitting here stewing in it. I'm getting out there and letting it motivate me to act in real, concrete ways. I volunteer. I engage in political debates. I live my life according to my values, and I am always challenging myself. Not sure how many other people, angry or otherwise, could say the same.

Good for you. Glad to hear this. I don’t know how other people live their lives. I try not to judge them because I don’t know their stories (I am not always successful at this, admittedly). I have found over the years, however, that it is difficult to the point of impossible to change people’s minds on anything that falls under “belief”. I’ve pulled back on shouting my beliefs and demanding people understand them, and me, and focused more on just being someone other people want to listen to. (Again, not always successful.)

But I am very happy to hear your life is going well! As I said, I’ve always enjoyed talking to you on this forum. I think you’re a dynamic, intelligent and fun person.

To answer your question in a way that we both might find somewhat sufficient: I'll take the disarming and demilitarization of police forces in the US as a start, and no less.

Well, that’s something tangible. Thank you. I expect you would find a lot of resistance to that idea.

But I’ll leave the police talk here. Work calls and she is a hard bitch to ignore.

Good luck and enjoy your trip!

 

[KoPilot]

That makes sense. In which case, perhaps higher standards are in order? I was shocked to learn from an LE friend that the educational requirement for his department was only highschool graduation or GED. The Vancouver police require a minimum of a college degree. That alone would weed out a high number of scumbags.

IMO, not good enough. We have incredibly high standards of our elected officials (supposedly), and yet look how disappointing they usually turn out to be anyways. Obama, passing all the tests with flying colors, still turned out to be terrible.

I understand what you’re saying but there’s a fundamental difference here. Most people have encountered movies in their lifetime and understand at the very least what a stunt is and what stunt people do. If I ran into someone who genuinely did not know, I would offer an explanation if a conversation was desired. The only time I will refuse to provide someone with basic information is when I know they are merely attempting to derail a conversation, (which I assure you was not my intention).

I don’t know your philosophical outlook and I didn’t chime in to spend hours researching the personal views of everyone involved in this thread. Sorry, I don’t have time for that. Even the time to write this is more than I should be taking away from my work!

I understand if you don’t want to fill me in and I respect that. I’ll simply have to disengage from the conversation.

The problem is that engaging with the 101 material, honestly, takes a lot more than just a few minutes of reading. I was incredibly hostile to the entire notion of anti-authoritarianism when I first came across it, and only after repeated exposure did it really sink in. It doesn't "make sense" unless you're in a place where you're already receptive to it. And unless you're receptive, it's a complete waste of time on a person-to-person basis.

So for the record, everybody, here's decent 101 material that's well-designed and rather non-threatening: http://crimethinc.com/tce/

Doesn't ask or answer any of the hard questions, but it's a place to start.

I do not blame you at all. No blame, just an observation. I feel the same anger, I’ve just chosen not to let it colour my interactions with other people.

Everything is political; every time you say hello to someone on the street or don't, it's political. I can choose to ignore the political repercussions of my actions and interactions, like say when I stay silent when a family member says something racist or denies climate change, but I don't deny that they have political repercussions altogether. It's a survival tactic; it's self-care. It's not a commendable lifestyle.

Cascadia? Cool! Will you be making it up as far as BC?

I plan on settling in Van as soon as I get my PR, actually. When that happens will be another question entirely, as bureaucracy takes its sweet fuckin' time. I'll be spending a lot of time there in the meantime, though, as that's where the spouse is.

Good for you. Glad to hear this. I don’t know how other people live their lives. I try not to judge them because I don’t know their stories (I am not always successful at this, admittedly). I have found over the years, however, that it is difficult to the point of impossible to change people’s minds on anything that falls under “belief”. I’ve pulled back on shouting my beliefs and demanding people understand them, and me, and focused more on just being someone other people want to listen to. (Again, not always successful.)

Part of being anti-authoritarian is really living the idea that no one is a better authority on how to live your life than you. Unlearning everything that goes against that is hard. You do hard drugs? I'm not going to tell you not to, because that's your life, your way of coping, and nobody turns to drugs for no reason anyway. You're a hermit and a hoarder? Fine, do whatever you need to do to make life livable and enjoyable for yourself. And so on.

It's a praxis of peaceful acceptance in a most fundamental way.

But I am very happy to hear your life is going well! As I said, I’ve always enjoyed talking to you on this forum. I think you’re a dynamic, intelligent and fun person.

Thank you, and I mean it. I've always liked you too.

 

[KoPilot]

It's a praxis of peaceful acceptance in a most fundamental way.

I should add, since this will very predictably get misconstrued, that being anti-authoritarian doesn't mean you sit back and accept when someone else unjustly acts as an authority over a third party, or yourself. Which is why I am critical of education, of the institution of parenthood, of laws and law enforcement, of representative government, of private (not personal) property, and so on.

I accept people, but am critical of actions and systems that get perpetuated.

 

[KoPilot]

Mentally ill teenage girl killed by Texas police

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Keroin]

So for the record, everybody, here's decent 101 material that's well-designed and rather non-threatening: http://crimethinc.com/tce/

Doesn't ask or answer any of the hard questions, but it's a place to start.

Thanks for sharing! Interesting ideas expressed but problematic when I try to translate them into real life.

Not the belief system for me.

 

[KoPilot]

Alabama inmate free after three decades on death row. How the case against him unraveled. - once again, the headline belies the unbelievable absurdity of its contents: all it took to exonerate him was a simple ballistics test.

 

[KoPilot]

Thanks for sharing! Interesting ideas expressed but problematic when I try to translate them into real life.

Not the belief system for me.

Yeah, hence:

you need to shed a lot of preconcieved notions about how you think the world works, should work, and can work, and do some reading on serious socialist libertarian literature on the subject.

Like I said, a dialogue can't even begin to happen until the other party can wrap their head around it, and most of the time they can't.

 

[Keroin]

Like I said, a dialogue can't even begin to happen until the other party can wrap their head around it, and most of the time they can't.

Mmm, I don't have to read the entire Bible or Koran to know they're not my cup of tea. I get the gist and, like religion, I like some of the ideas, but they don't all work for me. I think for the ideas expressed to work effectively, you'd pretty much have to get most of the world onboard and the realistic chances of that happening? Very low.

I'm a dyed-on-the-wool pragmatist. That's as close to a belief system as I get.

But it was interesting reading. Thanks!

 

[KoPilot]

I'm well aware of that, but what I'm trying to say is that "I don't think X is realistic" does not a dialogue make. It only takes a soundbite to result in an opinion; it takes learning to result in understanding, even if the outcome is still disagreement.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Keroin]

I'm well aware of that, but what I'm trying to say is that "I don't think X is realistic" does not a dialogue make. It only takes a soundbite to result in an opinion; it takes learning to result in understanding, even if the outcome is still disagreement.

Both are pretty worth while reads never the less, not least because so much is based on them or rebellion against them or augment about them or details therein. As some one who believes in neither I have found things to admire and be dazzled by and be frustrated in the extreme over with in both.

Agreed and agreed. But...time.

But I also don't think a requirement of discussion on a topic should be that every person studies the belief systems of every person engaged in the discussion. Especially in a forum such as this.

And with that, I really have to leave this one! Nice chatting everyone.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[KoPilot]

Two people declaring their opinions at each other isn't a discussion xD

 

[KoPilot]

Man Imprisoned After Filming Eric Garner’s Death, Refusing to Eat, Rat Poison Found in Jail Food

 

[subwannabe]

Geez. Straight fom the National Inquirer.