Pride

[Desdemona]

Shadows, thank you for the encouragement. I know I will get there.

 

[li'a-wahine]

"Is fantasy really better than reality"

"Is fantasy really better than reality"

I will say NO.

I am sitting here thinking of what I should say and how to say it, I know this post is about pride as well, and I have read through everyones responses, and I still don't know how to put it into my own words, lol. So here I go, to me, pride is something that is very important, for myself to have (which I do) as well as for my Master (he does too). I beleive that it is one of the building blockes of a lasting relationship. I have more that one type of pride, there is the pride I gain by serving Master, of being His...and ther is my own self pride which comes from within, that is mine, that has nothing to do with being submissive. I have been asked befor how I could be a "true submissive" while being a proud or stubborn, or whatever...woman. That part of me has nothing to do with my submission to my Master, just as my submissivness does not make me a door mat to the world. I hope that person understood, if not, oh well! lol,

I hope that I answered the questions you had askes Shadow, I've been trying to answer most all of your posts. I find that they all hit very close to home thank you again for making take time out of my day to look at myself.

lia

 

[Daddyslilpet]

Re: "Is fantasy really better than reality"

I have been asked befor how I could be a "true submissive" while being a proud or stubborn, or whatever...woman. That part of me has nothing to do with my submission to my Master, just as my submissivness does not make me a door mat to the world.

Here, Here!! I am in total agreement with this well stated sentiment. Very well put!! I feel the same way about my submissiveness. Thank you for this post!


dixi

 

[li'a-wahine]

stands up and takes a bow....

*giggling of course*

thank you dixi......

isn't is SO true though!

 

[Shadowsdream]

lia

Already you are becoming one of the treasures here amongst so many gems.

The glimpses of your reality are so happily shared. And pleasantly recieved.

 

[li'a-wahine]

ahhh thank you Shadow, you have made my day

 

[Persephone36]

It seems I'm just catching up to these threads, lol. That's what I get for not being around much -- missing out on some truly well-thought out dialogue.

I'm going to base my response on coming from a relatively 'nilla world with a healthy number of kinks in it so far, lol.

Actually, I'm going to take it beyond that -- because the pride you speak about Shadowsdream -- is the mutual, respect, affection, care two people have between each other. A pride in knowing that this person holds a place in your heart -- and that you're not only proud to be with them, you're proud to know they chose you.

I've had that strength of feeling between myself and my best friends, male and female, for many years. I've always felt things that deeply. I could look across the table at one of them in a restaurant interacting with a waiter and think "what a marvelous person I'm across from. I'm proud to be seen with them. I'm proud to know they love me. I'm proud that I love them and recognize all the beauty and wonder within them." Truly! I *know* that's sounds like hyperbole -- and I'm not always Ms. Warm Touchy Feely all the time (because I'm natural opinionated and prickly) -- but that is really the nature of the thoughts that go through my head. Generally it shows up in my eyes and my friend asks -- "*What* are you grinning about?" Most of the time I have to shake my head and come up with a less intense thought to fob off on them, lol.

So, to me -- pride between people is the wonder within a great relationship of any kind. Between a parent and child, friends, lovers...etc.

Now, I know you're referring to a more specific theme in this Shadowsdream -- because of the intensity of the power exchange in a D/s relationship. So I do respect that -- but I think my pride would be no different. We'd still have chosen each other. We'd still love each other (well, for me -- that's the only way I could enter into a real sexual D/s relationship -- I'd have to know I was loved and cherished.)

So, I can't speak to your fantasy question.

I will say one more thing though. Desdemona brought it up so succintly. About the first step being having pride in yourself. Respecting and loving and appreciating yourself first. I think she's absolutely right. And no, none of us is perfect in this all the time -- and for some of us, it's a hard road to walk on.

I know that one of the main things that makes me resist searching out a D/s relationship (although I thought recently it might have just presented itself to me -- someone at similar path in his journey) is my self-esteem issues. I've had clinical depression for many years. So much so and so severe that it incapacitated me for a long time. Now I've been on a huge mend from that for quite a while. But the years of damage are still there. Even if I'm stronger now in my belief and acceptance of myself than I ever have been -- I'm not there yet. I wouldn't say I'm off by a long shot, but I've got work. However, I know all that -- and that's one of the main realizations that makes me think -- okay, I think I could begin to seriously explore what has always been a natural part of my sexuality. One I haven't indulged because I haven't trusted my partners that way.

I also still know, that I have this deep-seated need to feel accepted by someone in a relationship. That there's still this holdout part of me that can't quite say I'll be healed without knowing I've been loved. Been completely accepted and valued by someone I'm in love with. But I also believe, that having pride and a sense of myself as a worthy human being -- completely alone -- is the only way to get to a particular point. That whole strong person, a complete person that I value whom I want to offer up to someone. Because then I'll be a full partner. Because then I know I can love them from a base of strength, not neediness. Because they can be proud of me for loving myself.

Maybe those are too demanding to expect of one's self. I used to think that because I had very little self-esteem, I wasn't worthwhile enough to be in a relationship -- so I shunned them. Now, I think it's okay to be on a path together, supporting one another. Being proud of each other as you both grow -- together and separately. That if you let the person see the *whole* you -- faults and fears and all -- that you give them the greatest gift of all. A person, warts and all.

Okay, lol, that was my .50 cents.

P.

 

[Shadowsdream]

perse

(Because then I know I can love them from a base of strength, not neediness. Because they can be proud of me for loving myself.)

Pride is not the brain child of BDSM it is the internal strength and self acceptance that knows no boundaries.

There is no lifestyle or lovestyle that is not stronger for it. Pride is not fed by ego nor extinguished by idiots.

It is as wholesome as apple pie and as warm and refreshing as a summer rain.

The very essence of innocence that has not been tainted by the need to impress another.

Pride does not suck your partner dry of energy or emotion but stands strongly beside hopes and dreams.

In My opinion. ~~smile~~

Lovely addition to this conversation I am enjoying in all of its twists and turns.

 

[Persephone36]

Thank you. And I completely agree with you Shadowsdream -- it comes from a basis of strength.

And yet, I think you can have it and feel it, even if you're not the strongest person in the world. Because if you each feel accepted by the other (and I'm not talking about a co-dependent relationship -- but one between two basically healthy people) then you can both continue to strengthen. There's a pride in watching someone you love accept themselves more and more for who they are. Because you accept them -- even if they never changed a single thing about themselves, you love them for who they are.

I guess I was also relating myself into this twist -- because I didn't feel that unless I was perfectly strong, stood tall, had no doubts about myself, loved myself unconditionally -- then I was worthless and why would anyone want me. LOL, BIG conundrum in that, isn't there?

Now I'm more accepting that there is no perfection of strength, self-love and independence. Great goal -- but you still are allowed to fully live your life even if you're not there yet. And I think we can have hidden strengths -- that one can even point them out to each other. Reveal the beauty of each other to themselves in ways perhaps they never imagined. I think as long as one tries not to do what is the hidden shame for me (albeit -- it's not as dominant a fear as it used to be, but I still abhor it in myself) -- look to the other person to shore up your self-worth. As you said "suck them dry of their energy" -- that you know you always have to turn back to fulfilling your own needs, even while you're in a relationship -- then I feel that pride can be achieved, even if the base is still continuing to be strengthened.

Did I just repeat myself? Sorry, lol, I thought I wasn't *completely* cogent up above. And god knows -- I better get it right and be perfect, lol.

P.

 

[Shadowsdream]

perse

Thats right ya better get it right I whisper with an evil glint in My eye since I have woken up in the mood to spank?

WHY

I am moody!

Ok back to the serious stuff...

Pride begins with a whisper deep inside that grows little by little through small accomplishments. It straightens the back bone inperceptively in the beginning. The corners of the mouth feel a tug in the upward direction. The eyes alternate from a soft knowledge to a sparkle of courage.

It is self...constantly in flux...in danger of becoming arrogance or despair. It can be strengthened by another or destroyed.

Can you give Me an example how a Dominant could mistake Her pride for arrogance?

Setting up the spanking!

 

[WillowPuss]

Pride begins with a whisper deep inside that grows little by little through small accomplishments. It straightens the back bone inperceptively in the beginning. The corners of the mouth feel a tug in the upward direction. The eyes alternate from a soft knowledge to a sparkle of courage.

It is self...constantly in flux...in danger of becoming arrogance or despair. It can be strengthened by another or destroyed.

Can you give Me an example how a Dominant could mistake Her pride for arrogance?

Setting up the spanking!

Excuse me ... is this a question for perse?
I have a sorta feeling that it is an open question for us all. Right?

 

[Shadowsdream]

willow

This is an open question as well as to perse

 

[Soron]

Thoughts

I myself have always been drawn to a more intelligent and emotonally stronger woman. That's just me. I want a submissive who is, in her own way, going to push me to be all I can be for her as a Dominant. I love that, I need that. I abhor complaceny and ignorance. I have alway felt from an early age that I was born a pervert and a Dominant. There is nothing more pleasing to me than to have a submissive lying across my lap and my hand or some other instrument heating up her ass for me to ultimately caress. I crave the control and the heat of it.
Having said that I have studied and practiced these things for years. When I hear of some so called Dominant who thinks they know what they're doing without learning safety and emotional control of themselves I get a little livid. Again I refer to ignorance.
I admit, like any man, I am attracted to a submissives body. But, her mind, her emotions, that is the REAL turn on for me. That is what gets my Dominant heart pounding.
Is fantasy better? Hell no. I ask only for a bright beautiful soul who needs to give her gift to me, so that I may cherish it. I could never take it. I don't know that I would know how.

 

[~Dream~]

Merelan...

See that post above me?

I felt pride reading that. For she meant me when she said precious gem, and treasure. I am her's. Her sub, but so much more then mere words.
To mention her even, to simply think of her, and all she means to me, make me fill with pride.
She chose me, and I her. It was mutual, though at the time we didn't know it.
When someone asks me about my anklet, I must look like an idiot as I explain what it means to me. For my smile broadens and my eyes shine.
When I read something she has written, or for any reason am reminded of her, I flush and feel special, loved, cherished.

For she is proud of me, and I her. She has the strength of steel love I needed, and I the soft submission to sooth her. I am not less for being submissive, but more. More of all the wonderful, crazy good things that make me merelan.

Alas, I wish I had a tenth of her power in words. To make you all see how I feel.

if i CANNOT see how you feel hun,the why the heck am i crying? thatwas a post I also could,ve written as much from my very own heart about My Master..however I shall post later..ty Merelan for your honesty

 

[Shadowsdream]

Re: Thoughts

I myself have always been drawn to a more intelligent and emotonally stronger woman. That's just me. I want a submissive who is, in her own way, going to push me to be all I can be for her as a Dominant. I love that, I need that. I abhor complaceny and ignorance. I have alway felt from an early age that I was born a pervert and a Dominant. There is nothing more pleasing to me than to have a submissive lying across my lap and my hand or some other instrument heating up her ass for me to ultimately caress. I crave the control and the heat of it.
Having said that I have studied and practiced these things for years. When I hear of some so called Dominant who thinks they know what they're doing without learning safety and emotional control of themselves I get a little livid. Again I refer to ignorance.
I admit, like any man, I am attracted to a submissives body. But, her mind, her emotions, that is the REAL turn on for me. That is what gets my Dominant heart pounding.
Is fantasy better? Hell no. I ask only for a bright beautiful soul who needs to give her gift to me, so that I may cherish it. I could never take it. I don't know that I would know how.

Thank You so much for joining this conversation of enlightenment. Your words are so touched with reality and from a male point of view they can be seen in a new light.

Thank You also for pointing out the fact that Dominance is learned through doing and understanding the safety and emotional control of THEMSELVES. Wishing to be a Dominant or wishing your partner was a Dominant does not make it so.

It takes dedication to learning for all the right reasons to acquire the life skills that will tough on heaven and hell.

 

[SpectreT]

I feel that a relationship, especailly a D/S one, has to have as a cornerstone the sure knowledge that there are two people, two sets of needs, desires and abilities to feed those needs and desires. A dominant needs to understand, and make sure that their submissive knows they understand, that their submissive is a person of worth and value who has brought them a gift, that they are a treasure.

Pride is a good thing; its funhouse mirror reflections Hubris and Vanity are not.

It is sometimes difficult, even for the person experiencing the emotion, to distinguish between Pride, Vanity and Hubris.

The litmus test is pretty simple though. Ask youself "Do I deserve this?"

If the answer is a chuckle and an "Of course.", without further thought, you need a bite off a reality sandwich.

If the reply is, "I work every day to make sure I'm worthy of their gift," You should smile and enjoy the Pride you're feeling. Better still, share that pride with your sub, let them know that they've brought you something of value, even if that something is an excuse to smack their ass fire engine red.

And never back away from your beliefs or convictions.

........Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

 

[Richard49]

WOW !!!!

I love whatever one has said ....

Let me throw this in if I may

Love is when respect,caring,responsiblity and knowledge converge/meet/intersect

Now I know play partners may not be in love
some do not even know each other .....

However all four of these elements still need to be there for it to be safe and consenual

Respect - to hold as valuable ...to honor
caring - wishing they might find the best that is in them and have the best they can have
(respect and caring blance each other out so abuse is avioded)

Responsiblity - to be able to respond ... this means to be able to identify one's own needs and find there fulfillment without interfering in another fulfilling theres ... it also means that in a relationship we are willing and able to "be there" for our "SOs" needs when they can not fulfill there own

Knowledge - to know a person beyond/deeper then the external behaviors ... "when they strick out we know they are functioning from fear"

Well back to my corner

 

[SierraMoon]

WOW !!!!

I love whatever one has said ....

Let me throw this in if I may

Love is when respect,caring,responsiblity and knowledge converge/meet/intersect

Now I know play partners may not be in love
some do not even know each other .....

However all four of these elements still need to be there for it to be safe and consenual

Respect - to hold as valuable ...to honor
caring - wishing they might find the best that is in them and have the best they can have
(respect and caring blance each other out so abuse is avioded)

Responsiblity - to be able to respond ... this means to be able to identify one's own needs and find there fulfillment without interfering in another fulfilling theres ... it also means that in a relationship we are willing and able to "be there" for our "SOs" needs when they can not fulfill there own

Knowledge - to know a person beyond/deeper then the external behaviors ... "when they strick out we know they are functioning from fear"

Well back to my corner

very beautifully said, Richard!! It is so great to see you posting here again! You were missed!!!

 

[Shadowsdream]

I feel that a relationship, especailly a D/S one, has to have as a cornerstone the sure knowledge that there are two people, two sets of needs, desires and abilities to feed those needs and desires. A dominant needs to understand, and make sure that their submissive knows they understand, that their submissive is a person of worth and value who has brought them a gift, that they are a treasure.

Pride is a good thing; its funhouse mirror reflections Hubris and Vanity are not.

It is sometimes difficult, even for the person experiencing the emotion, to distinguish between Pride, Vanity and Hubris.

The litmus test is pretty simple though. Ask youself "Do I deserve this?"

If the answer is a chuckle and an "Of course.", without further thought, you need a bite off a reality sandwich.

If the reply is, "I work every day to make sure I'm worthy of their gift," You should smile and enjoy the Pride you're feeling. Better still, share that pride with your sub, let them know that they've brought you something of value, even if that something is an excuse to smack their ass fire engine red.

And never back away from your beliefs or convictions.

........Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

I have read and re read and then read your post again...can't see how you could be wrong BUT I can certainly see how right you are.

Thank you for adding your voice to this conversation. It is wonderful to have you share this moment of thought with U/us.

And nice to see you back to keep the reality churning from your point of valuable view!

 

[Shadowsdream]

WOW !!!!

I love whatever one has said ....

Let me throw this in if I may

Love is when respect,caring,responsiblity and knowledge converge/meet/intersect

Now I know play partners may not be in love
some do not even know each other .....

However all four of these elements still need to be there for it to be safe and consenual

Respect - to hold as valuable ...to honor
caring - wishing they might find the best that is in them and have the best they can have
(respect and caring blance each other out so abuse is avioded)

Responsiblity - to be able to respond ... this means to be able to identify one's own needs and find there fulfillment without interfering in another fulfilling theres ... it also means that in a relationship we are willing and able to "be there" for our "SOs" needs when they can not fulfill there own

Knowledge - to know a person beyond/deeper then the external behaviors ... "when they strick out we know they are functioning from fear"

Well back to my corner

I hope You will enjoy that corner and utilize it well by keeping close by to add Your value to all the conversations going on.

I enjoy the perspectives and deep caring thought You bring to the posts.

No bull...No crap...No ass kissing...but honesty and sincere guidance.

Thank You for the participation in this conversation meant to enlighten the newbies and the oldbies!

 

[SpectreT]

I have read and re read and then read your post again...can't see how you could be wrong BUT I can certainly see how right you are.

Thank you for adding your voice to this conversation. It is wonderful to have you share this moment of thought with U/us.

And nice to see you back to keep the reality churning from your point of valuable view!

Thank you.

The closing statement, I must confess, was cribbed from the last episode of "Dennis Miller Live", from his rant about confidence. Kind of tongue-in-cheek; tell everyone not to back down from their convictions, then throw a disclaimer on the whole thing. I'm going to miss that show....

 

[Richard49]

I hope You will enjoy that corner and utilize it well by keeping close by to add Your value to all the conversations going on.

I enjoy the perspectives and deep caring thought You bring to the posts.

No bull...No crap...No ass kissing...but honesty and sincere guidance.

Thank You for the participation in this conversation meant to enlighten the newbies and the oldbies!

<blush>
Thank you

 

[SpectreT]

Richard49....

I don't believe I've posted this yet, but it's good to see you posting again. We've been given to understand that you're having..... difficulties.

Pull up a seat. We've got a fresh tray of reality sadwiches here for anybody who wants or needs one.

Care to help us serve 'em out?

 

[Richard49]

Re: Richard49....

I don't believe I've posted this yet, but it's good to see you posting again. We've been given to understand that you're having..... difficulties.

Pull up a seat. We've got a fresh tray of reality sadwiches here for anybody who wants or needs one.

Care to help us serve 'em out?

Yes I have been and am having "difficulties"

life sucks

Reality sandwichs?
isn't there enough reality without having to eat it

 

[Richard49]

Re: Richard49....

I don't believe I've posted this yet, but it's good to see you posting again.

PS: Thank you