Proposal to "The Poets"

[Equinoxe]

Wow. Teach me that!

Well, I don't know quite how good I am or how successful my Sapphics have been, but I can certainly explain how the form works in English (or in Greek, but not in Greek).

More precisely, the form poems have standard wrappers, while each "non-form poem" has a custom wrapper (when its good). The best poems of both types are optimal (or nearly so), which in effect is something kin to a wrapper.

True. I just wanted to warn authors of form poems to avoid being satisfied just due to satisfying the formal requirements of the form.

The idea of the form poetry is healthy only under the assumption that the form is no excuse for any compromises. Instead, the form should stimulate you and force you to find poetic extra-original, unexpected solutions. I believe that in part Les'mian's originality and flights of imagination were simply necessary to achieve the double goal: satisfy the form and never lower your poetic standards.

This--among other things--means that you never insert a word just for the sake of a rhyme or to get the rhythm. Each word has to carry poetry.

Best regards,

Absolutely. The form of a poem, if there is one, must become a part of the expression and each word in a poem must do what all the words together do—it must serve the poem's meaning. A form poem which meets the requirements of the form and nothing more is no better than a non-form poem which meets the requirements of the form and nothing more, except that it may help one to get a feel for the form, which could be useful for writing poems which do more than merely meet the form.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I have a question which is probably a very silly one but here goes anyway, has every type of poetry got a name?

 

[champagne1982]

I took part in an exercise once, it may have been on this forum or Eve's, to take a standard poem and write a haiku or senryu, and then re-expand it. It was very educating to see the end result - kind of like that little game where everyone changes a word in a line and passes it around.

It would be a fun challenge again.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I have a question which is probably a very silly one but here goes anyway, has every type of poetry got a name?

I don't think that's a silly question.

Far as I know, although I don't know all that far, there are lots of names for various form poems, and lots of names for various meters and rhyme schemes, but not every form has a name, and there's a huge category of poetry that just gets lumped together as "free verse" even though in may be written with a great deal of attention to things like rhythm, sound and other "formal" elements.

bj

 

[Remec]

Oh dear. Famous last words.

Perhaps, but they're words I tend to say to myself quite a bit as well...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I don't like to be 'lumped' I prefer 'different'

 

[unpredictablebijou]

I don't like to be 'lumped' I prefer 'different'

Actually, I think a lot of your work would fall under the general category of "lyric poetry." It's a venerable pursuit; even Aristotle thought lyric poems were important and worthwhile.

bj

 

[Safe_Bet]

I don't like to be 'lumped' I prefer 'different'

I am SO not going to touch that line! (But god, is it tempting!!!)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

You're doing this on purpose aren't you? It's because I've been away and you are suffering from spanking deprivation those dimples need a severe seeing to

 

[GoddessNyx SwtCheeks]

Hello there Goddess from a fellow editor. Nice to meetcha

This is really Safe_Bet's proposal and I don't want to speak for her, but I'm thinking that we should probably have a separate thread for each "class." So if we start with the terzanelle, for example, we have a thread called something like "Poetry Class: Terzanelle." If we stuck everything in one thread, or this thread, it would be harder to find specific information on a particular form (as you note in your Point 1). This way, if we subscribe to the threads we want, we'll get the email notifications when they're up and when new posts are added to it. I'm guessing though that when we're discussing form whatever, its thread will get a lot of posts (I hope!) and will be prominent on the first page of the forum. Another option would be to stick the thread for the time (one week, two weeks) we're actively discussing it and writing in that form, so it would be at the top of the forum. I'm happy to do whatever people want and either I (or Eve or Lauren Hynde) can make a thread sticky. Also, whether a thread is sticky or not it's easy to do an advanced search and just type in the form name, select the option for searching for it in the thread title and limit the search to this forum. It should be very easy for any of us to keep up with the forms we want.

And I'd very very interested to hear what people think about also sharing info on how to do critique as we discuss these forms. My experience here has been that many people are uncomfortable offering detailed critique of a poem because they're not sure how to do it. That's an issue that has come up over and over in this forum. Maybe if people felt more confident that their feedback was really helpful (as opposed to just praising or criticizing), they'd be more inclined to do it.

I have another question (for everyone not just you--don't mean to sound so pointed here lol): What about forms like illustrated poetry? What about specific aspects of writing poetry like using metaphors and imagery or how people make decisions about line breaks? Are people interested in sharing ideas about those as well? I've seen a fair amount of interest in how people produce illustrated poems, for example, and there are people here who are very good at that (Liar, Lauren, Eve and Jamison come to mind). As far as the tools of writing poems, like using images and metaphors, etc., I feel like it's not enough to just learn how to do a form but to remember that using these tools well actually (to me) has more impact on producing good poetry than following some form's rules correctly.

Anyway that's all the stuff that's running through my fevered brain, and I'm always eager to hear others' opinions about it.

Thanks for the welcome, Poets of All Persuasions.

(I have to spend some time figuring out how to reply to a post -- the "multi-quote" button just blushed when I pushed it ... and nothing else happened. Oh! a miracle just happened. )

I like the idea of a sticky thread, keeping one form active at a time, sharing critique techniques, etc. -- definitely want to be part of this!

I have several non-Lit deadlines breathing fire on me for the next week, so I'll be checking here every couple of days to see what's happening.

Ah, creative juices flowing, as it were . . . I look forward to getting to know you all better in the coming months. . . .

GN

 

[Angeline]

Thanks for the welcome, Poets of All Persuasions.

(I have to spend some time figuring out how to reply to a post -- the "multi-quote" button just blushed when I pushed it ... and nothing else happened. Oh! a miracle just happened. )

I like the idea of a sticky thread, keeping one form active at a time, sharing critique techniques, etc. -- definitely want to be part of this!

I have several non-Lit deadlines breathing fire on me for the next week, so I'll be checking here every couple of days to see what's happening.

Ah, creative juices flowing, as it were . . . I look forward to getting to know you all better in the coming months. . . .

GN

Hiya GN.

When you want to do a multiquote, click on each post you wish to quote. Yep, each button you select will turn reddish. Then, after you've selected every post that you want to quote click on "Reply to Topic." Your reply post will then open with all the quotes you selected in it.

 

[GoddessNyx SwtCheeks]

Thank you -- and have I missed anything?

Hiya GN.

When you want to do a multiquote, click on each post you wish to quote. Yep, each button you select will turn reddish. Then, after you've selected every post that you want to quote click on "Reply to Topic." Your reply post will then open with all the quotes you selected in it.

Thank you for the help, Angeline! I'll have to play around with this a bit soon.

Have the lessons started yet? If so, where will I find the first one? Not trying to be a pushy Broad -- I mean, Goddess (I save that stuff for the sub) -- just want to make sure I wasn't looking left when everyone else went right.

thanks. Now back to the not-as-interesting deadlines I'm scrambling with ...

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Well what's happening here? What happened to the teach ins? I keep looking and so many of you are able

 

[champagne1982]

Well what's happening here? What happened to the teach ins? I keep looking and so many of you are able

I'll draw up a lesson plan for a ghazal tomorrow... If no one else is ready I'll start it on Monday.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

I'll draw up a lesson plan for a ghazal tomorrow... If no one else is ready I'll start it on Monday.

Sounds good to me, champ.

 

[champagne1982]

I have leapt ahead and gone right through to post the first of the PoBo Form Master Class Series - The Ghazal. I hope this is what you were hoping for. HAVE FUN!

 

[champagne1982]

Since it's the weekend coming up, I'm wondering who's the next Style Guru to give a guest lecture. Don't be shy! The ghazal thread wasn't as hard as I'd thought it would be to build and moderate. I knew the participants would be the drivers of the topic, all I had to do was pull out the cane for a bit of well deserved reward.. ooo, I should say, punishment (but it wasn't really).

C'mon perfesser, teach me a poem.

 

[Equinoxe]

Since it's the weekend coming up, I'm wondering who's the next Style Guru to give a guest lecture. Don't be shy! The ghazal thread wasn't as hard as I'd thought it would be to build and moderate. I knew the participants would be the drivers of the topic, all I had to do was pull out the cane for a bit of well deserved reward.. ooo, I should say, punishment (but it wasn't really).

C'mon perfesser, teach me a poem.

If no one else plans to volunteer, I would be more than happy to prepare something—perhaps on tanka since you have slandered and sullied its good name in the ghazal thread.

 

[Angeline]

If no one else plans to volunteer, I would be more than happy to prepare something—perhaps on tanka since you have slandered and sullied its good name in the ghazal thread.

That'd be great. I'll keep the ghazal thread stuck until say, Sunday. And you can get a tanka thread up Sunday or Monday and we'll stick that one. If you need more time, of course, that's fine.

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

If no one else plans to volunteer, I would be more than happy to prepare something—perhaps on tanka since you have slandered and sullied its good name in the ghazal thread.

sounds good to me

 

[Equinoxe]

That'd be great. I'll keep the ghazal thread stuck until say, Sunday. And you can get a tanka thread up Sunday or Monday and we'll stick that one. If you need more time, of course, that's fine.

sounds good to me

Wonderful. I've written up an introduction to the form (with musical accompaniment!), so things ought to be ready on time.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Phewwwww at least it's not a sestina otherwise I was going to go on extended leave

 

[sassynyc]

I want to thank Champ and Equinoxe for a successful start in the Master Class Series. You've both made learning an enjoyable and welcoming experience.

I'm not sure if anyone has anything lined up for the next PoBo class, but I'd like to put in a request. Prose poems and triolets are two forms I'd be interested in learning. Even if it's not for the next class(es), it's something to consider for a later date.

For future reference, if we have interest in studying a certain form, what would be a reasonable time frame to put in that request? Just to give the prospective instructor enough time to prepare.

 

[Equinoxe]

I want to thank Champ and Equinoxe for a successful start in the Master Class Series. You've both made learning an enjoyable and welcoming experience.

[For my part, though I'm sure she feels the same way] You are very welcome, and thank you. I am glad that people have enjoyed the series so far and participation by everyone has been wonderful.

I'm not sure if anyone has anything lined up for the next PoBo class, but I'd like to put in a request. Prose poems and triolets are two forms I'd be interested in learning. Even if it's not for the next class(es), it's something to consider for a later date.

I am wondering what will be next, too, because we are coming up on the end of the week and I don't see any volunteers.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I've really enjoyed trying yours Equinoxe and I suspect you know many more we could try