Prostitution
- Thread starter Mr Blonde
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Private_Label
In the kink toddler pool
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Would you ever sell yourself to another person for money?
My initial response is "No." But having looked at what a few Pro Dommes charge for and what they will not do... Now, I'm not so certain.
What is employment but "selling" yourself to perform a certain set of tasks for whatever consitutes a full day's wages, after all...
Would you ever pay money to buy another person?
Specifically for sexual related reasons - No. To help them out of a situation they find themselves in - maybe, a lot would depend on the person and how they ended up in that situation.
Why or why not?
With my physical intimacy also goes my emotional intimacy. I couldn't sell just my body - my brain goes with it. If someone is good enough for me to consider selling them my body, I would probably offer them the desired thing for free out of love.
Would I pay from sexual services - same thing - I'd have to know the person well enough first to want them, my desire is based on more than just physical looks. Again, my heart and mind follows my desire - so if the person wasn't interested in me, I certainly wouldn't want to give them money to do something they don't really desire to do.
When you get into discussing true slavery (the non consent kind) I would hope I could mortgage every thing I own to free a friend from that.
Would I buy a consentual slave? Probably not.
Does "forced" prostitution play a factor?
You do mean "consntual" forced, I hope. This still makes me very uncomfortable. If someone agrees to a relationship that includes this, I wish them well. But it isn't something I desire to participate in, or have my partner participate in...
My initial response is "No." But having looked at what a few Pro Dommes charge for and what they will not do... Now, I'm not so certain.
What is employment but "selling" yourself to perform a certain set of tasks for whatever consitutes a full day's wages, after all...
Would you ever pay money to buy another person?
Specifically for sexual related reasons - No. To help them out of a situation they find themselves in - maybe, a lot would depend on the person and how they ended up in that situation.
Why or why not?
With my physical intimacy also goes my emotional intimacy. I couldn't sell just my body - my brain goes with it. If someone is good enough for me to consider selling them my body, I would probably offer them the desired thing for free out of love.
Would I pay from sexual services - same thing - I'd have to know the person well enough first to want them, my desire is based on more than just physical looks. Again, my heart and mind follows my desire - so if the person wasn't interested in me, I certainly wouldn't want to give them money to do something they don't really desire to do.
When you get into discussing true slavery (the non consent kind) I would hope I could mortgage every thing I own to free a friend from that.
Would I buy a consentual slave? Probably not.
Does "forced" prostitution play a factor?
You do mean "consntual" forced, I hope. This still makes me very uncomfortable. If someone agrees to a relationship that includes this, I wish them well. But it isn't something I desire to participate in, or have my partner participate in...
marieR19
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Oh yes yes and more yes! lol For years it was my secret wish to be a prostitute.... I'm not really sure why, the thrill, the sex, everything I guess. One time when I "ran away" (for like eight hours) I was soooo serious about getting money by being a hooker. I used to fantasize about it a lot... I guess in some ways it might relate to my love of bdsm... having sex with guys that don't care about me, just want a cheap fuck... Would I be the one to pay for a prostitute? Hell yeah! 
Providing I could find one in this tiny little town....
Marie
Providing I could find one in this tiny little town....Marie
Killishandra
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Private_Label said:
My own opinons concerning my own body differ somewhat, I understand your attitude and I think you stated it quite eloquently just here, PL.
Anyway...
I wouldn't want to BE a whore or "rent" a whore, but I think it would be extremely hot to role-play one with a Dominant... To be used and abused and degraded like a hot, trashy whore.
Maybe have like $2 slapped on my ass at the end of the fuck. Makes a great fantasy, and probably a great role-play.But aside from that, I think prostitution is something I cannot imagine myself ever participating in either as whore or customer. Too risky, and I'm too picky about sexual partners. But I still think everyone should be able to do what they like with their bodies, and it surely grates on my nerves that the U.S. presumes to tell people that they cannot make a living providing sexual service. Ri-dick-ulous!
if a domme ordered me into a bar and then negociated for me to blow someone...with her keeping the money..oh yeah..what an amazing experience that would be..the high and emabarassment from being shopped..the act of actually performing in that situation...big time turn on for me...
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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marieR19 said:
LOL, you might be surprised......for some it is not a cheap fuck at all, if your good at what you do that is.....and often those paying are far from uncaring about the one they are paying to the extent they will buy gifts, advise on health (if they are doctors), get to know the one they are paying over a series of appointments and actually develop a friendship with them where caring becomes part of it. The difficult part comes with maintaining a balance which doesn't interfere with the relationship for either person.
Catalina
aslave4him
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What a timely topic
Wow, I can't believe that THIS topic came up!!!!
My owner has actually made comments about taking me some place and prostituting me out as a form of punishment... so I have thought about this a lot.
I posted a question on Live Journal about a gang-bang and received a lot of responces to the effect that it was a lot of womens fantasies. If you throw "sex with a complete stranger" out there, I think that you would get a lot of favorable responses as well. Then there is also the crowd of willing female subs who belong to owners that are willing to lend them out, and those who fantasize about that as well.
Given all of the interest in giving away sex, or just being used for sex, WHY does the acceptance of money make it any less moral?
sex + money = Prostitute
sex + free = ???? (slut?, stupid?) I don't know.
For myself, I would have a hard time accepting money for sex... but I am really having to ask myself... Why?
Why is a willingness to "give" it away any more moral than selling it?
Wow, I can't believe that THIS topic came up!!!!
My owner has actually made comments about taking me some place and prostituting me out as a form of punishment... so I have thought about this a lot.
I posted a question on Live Journal about a gang-bang and received a lot of responces to the effect that it was a lot of womens fantasies. If you throw "sex with a complete stranger" out there, I think that you would get a lot of favorable responses as well. Then there is also the crowd of willing female subs who belong to owners that are willing to lend them out, and those who fantasize about that as well.
Given all of the interest in giving away sex, or just being used for sex, WHY does the acceptance of money make it any less moral?
sex + money = Prostitute
sex + free = ???? (slut?, stupid?) I don't know.
For myself, I would have a hard time accepting money for sex... but I am really having to ask myself... Why?
Why is a willingness to "give" it away any more moral than selling it?
Last edited:
catalina_francisco
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aslave4him said:
LOL, because traditionally it has been men who have had to pay women and men who held the power and thus promoted the idea it was immoral simply because they felt like in many things that it should be there on offer for free just for their needs because they saw it as their right, and they felt women should be grateful for any crumb they got and should show their gratitude in such ways.
Catalina
Etoile
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Wow, I'm a bit surprised to see you here, which is funny given that I suggested you come check it out! I think this is the first time I have heard you refer to him as your owner - have things changed since we last spoke? Your situation is pretty unique, an introductory thread in the Cafe might be a friendly thing to do.aslave4him said:
This reply is likely to be long, slightly off-topic, and possibly not of interest to many following this thread, but my thinking here was spurred by posts in the thread, and I think I have a viewpoint that hasn't been represented thus far. Feel free to skip this if you aren't interested.
By way of introduction...I am a straight male submissive, who's spent years figuring himself out, and has some firsthand scene experience, including a "real" D/s relationship. During my "figuring-out" years, I did visit prostitutes a few times--perhaps a dozen or two times over a period of three or four years. In Manhattan at that time--ca. 2000--the "incall" apartment/brothel business operated almost in the open. It was, to all appearances, safe, clean, and, well, businesslike. The operators were friendly and professional, the girls clean and attractive, the apartments well-appointed and "reputable." These businesses relied on repeat clientele, and treated their customers like welcome guests. No one seemed to be coerced--I spoke extensively with a number of girls, most of whom lived half the time in other parts of the country, where they had lives and sometimes children, and came to Manhattan to make more money than they could any other way, doing work that was generally not distasteful to them.
The experiences were pleasant, often even intimate in a way. I met some fascinating women in these encounters, and sometimes had the leisure to chat with them at some length. In general, the sessions would center more around me catering to them, trying to please them, than about my own direct pleasure--part of what led me to recognize my own sexual submissiveness was that even when I had license to take whatever pleasure I chose, I chose to give rather than to receive. Quite often, my own release would come after the session, alone, savoring the memory of pleasing a beautiful woman. (Was that euphemistic enough to pass the censors?)
Of course, many, perhaps most, of the girls may have been only pretending to enjoy what I was doing--they were professionals, after all. Eventually, I stopped seeing prostitutes entirely because the underlying knowledge that she was ultimately there because she was getting paid killed the thrill for me. Some guys get off on having women who don't really want them; I've learned that I am exactly the opposite--if I think she's not excited, I won't be, either.
So, in answer to one of the original questions, yes, I can imagine paying for sex, because I have. And by extension, I can imagine being willing to have sex for money, under the right circumstances--although that's a purely academic question.
What I specifically wanted to refer to was Lloyd's statement that he didn't believe that a submissive could be an effective prostitute. No offense, Lloyd, because you seem to be a genuine and decent person, but you are mistaken on this point. That's about as valid as saying that a lesbian couldn't be an effective prostitute.
In point of fact, I personally saw more than once a woman who was, in her private life, in a committed relationship with another woman, and with whom she was raising her child. Despite her personal lifestyle, Kim never failed to convince me that she was glad to see me, that she enjoyed my company, and that she got physical pleasure from our sex, both oral and intercourse. Of course, Kim could have been faking all that, but even that proves my point--a prostitute's professional talent and success may have everything to do with her personality, but are in no way limited by her personal sexuality.
The last prostitute I saw was actually a pivotal person in my life, and she bears directly on Lloyd's misapprehension. I'd seen Snow long before I ever arranged to have a session with her, and though I was very attracted to her, I was a bit afraid of her. She was a very beautiful woman, but not at all typical of the girls who worked in these incall apartments. She was fortyish, in great shape, and tremendously confident. Her photos--this house had a website--depicted her in some rather fetishy lingerie ensembles--corsets, boots, fishnets, etc. Even though I was very green to BDSM at the time, I could see in her eyes that she "got it." As I got closer and closer to "coming out to myself" with regard to my submissive sexuality, I finally arranged to visit Snow. When she joined me, she asked me what I liked, and I sheepishly told her that I wanted her to "take control." After being quite sure of what I meant, she did just that, and topped me good and hard. It was one of the defining experiences of my life, and I will always be grateful to her for it.
Afterwards, she spent about half an hour of her own time with me, talking to me about being submissive, about the lifestyle, and about herself. I never expected real after-care in such a place, but apparently she had enough clout to be able to do what she felt necessary for me. Turns out--despite the fact that she was able to expertly play the role of a Domme--in her personal life, she was an owned slave. You'd never have guessed that if you met her on the street, or if she was topping you, but she talked with me about it at some length. She even had me check in with her the next day, by phone, just to be sure I was ok. (I had been profoundly touched and shaken by the experience, and she could tell it.) We corresponded through alt.com--where it turned out we both had profiles--for some time, and she really mentored me as I began to explore my submissive sexuality.
The point is, Kim was a lesbian (or at least a strongly female-oriented bisexual) in her private life, yet she was an exceptionally skilled prostitute. Snow was a lifestyle submissive, in an ongoing Owner/slave relationship, and she was a tremendously gifted sexual artist, even when playing a role opposite to her nature.
I think Lloyd's misapprehension comes from the all-too-common misbelief that sexual submissives are invariably meek and compliant people. This is generally not the case, in my experience. Personally, I am outspoken, opinionated, and not at all shy about voicing my preferences in my day-to-day life; only in an intimate or ongoing personal relationship does my submissiveness and need to serve become apparent. This is not at all uncommon among lifestyle submissives I've met. Some dominants prefer a compliant submissive partner, but I've heard many comment that there's no thrill in topping someone with no will of their own.
Of course, much of being a successful prostitute in the real world is centered around business skills which have nothing to do with one's sexuality. But part of being a successful prostitute is being sensitive enough, skilled enough, and adaptable enough to read and even anticipate the desires of your client, and meeting them or even exceeding them. And that sounds almost exactly like what sexual submission is about, at least to me.
By way of introduction...I am a straight male submissive, who's spent years figuring himself out, and has some firsthand scene experience, including a "real" D/s relationship. During my "figuring-out" years, I did visit prostitutes a few times--perhaps a dozen or two times over a period of three or four years. In Manhattan at that time--ca. 2000--the "incall" apartment/brothel business operated almost in the open. It was, to all appearances, safe, clean, and, well, businesslike. The operators were friendly and professional, the girls clean and attractive, the apartments well-appointed and "reputable." These businesses relied on repeat clientele, and treated their customers like welcome guests. No one seemed to be coerced--I spoke extensively with a number of girls, most of whom lived half the time in other parts of the country, where they had lives and sometimes children, and came to Manhattan to make more money than they could any other way, doing work that was generally not distasteful to them.
The experiences were pleasant, often even intimate in a way. I met some fascinating women in these encounters, and sometimes had the leisure to chat with them at some length. In general, the sessions would center more around me catering to them, trying to please them, than about my own direct pleasure--part of what led me to recognize my own sexual submissiveness was that even when I had license to take whatever pleasure I chose, I chose to give rather than to receive. Quite often, my own release would come after the session, alone, savoring the memory of pleasing a beautiful woman. (Was that euphemistic enough to pass the censors?)
Of course, many, perhaps most, of the girls may have been only pretending to enjoy what I was doing--they were professionals, after all. Eventually, I stopped seeing prostitutes entirely because the underlying knowledge that she was ultimately there because she was getting paid killed the thrill for me. Some guys get off on having women who don't really want them; I've learned that I am exactly the opposite--if I think she's not excited, I won't be, either.
So, in answer to one of the original questions, yes, I can imagine paying for sex, because I have. And by extension, I can imagine being willing to have sex for money, under the right circumstances--although that's a purely academic question.
What I specifically wanted to refer to was Lloyd's statement that he didn't believe that a submissive could be an effective prostitute. No offense, Lloyd, because you seem to be a genuine and decent person, but you are mistaken on this point. That's about as valid as saying that a lesbian couldn't be an effective prostitute.
In point of fact, I personally saw more than once a woman who was, in her private life, in a committed relationship with another woman, and with whom she was raising her child. Despite her personal lifestyle, Kim never failed to convince me that she was glad to see me, that she enjoyed my company, and that she got physical pleasure from our sex, both oral and intercourse. Of course, Kim could have been faking all that, but even that proves my point--a prostitute's professional talent and success may have everything to do with her personality, but are in no way limited by her personal sexuality.
The last prostitute I saw was actually a pivotal person in my life, and she bears directly on Lloyd's misapprehension. I'd seen Snow long before I ever arranged to have a session with her, and though I was very attracted to her, I was a bit afraid of her. She was a very beautiful woman, but not at all typical of the girls who worked in these incall apartments. She was fortyish, in great shape, and tremendously confident. Her photos--this house had a website--depicted her in some rather fetishy lingerie ensembles--corsets, boots, fishnets, etc. Even though I was very green to BDSM at the time, I could see in her eyes that she "got it." As I got closer and closer to "coming out to myself" with regard to my submissive sexuality, I finally arranged to visit Snow. When she joined me, she asked me what I liked, and I sheepishly told her that I wanted her to "take control." After being quite sure of what I meant, she did just that, and topped me good and hard. It was one of the defining experiences of my life, and I will always be grateful to her for it.
Afterwards, she spent about half an hour of her own time with me, talking to me about being submissive, about the lifestyle, and about herself. I never expected real after-care in such a place, but apparently she had enough clout to be able to do what she felt necessary for me. Turns out--despite the fact that she was able to expertly play the role of a Domme--in her personal life, she was an owned slave. You'd never have guessed that if you met her on the street, or if she was topping you, but she talked with me about it at some length. She even had me check in with her the next day, by phone, just to be sure I was ok. (I had been profoundly touched and shaken by the experience, and she could tell it.) We corresponded through alt.com--where it turned out we both had profiles--for some time, and she really mentored me as I began to explore my submissive sexuality.
The point is, Kim was a lesbian (or at least a strongly female-oriented bisexual) in her private life, yet she was an exceptionally skilled prostitute. Snow was a lifestyle submissive, in an ongoing Owner/slave relationship, and she was a tremendously gifted sexual artist, even when playing a role opposite to her nature.
I think Lloyd's misapprehension comes from the all-too-common misbelief that sexual submissives are invariably meek and compliant people. This is generally not the case, in my experience. Personally, I am outspoken, opinionated, and not at all shy about voicing my preferences in my day-to-day life; only in an intimate or ongoing personal relationship does my submissiveness and need to serve become apparent. This is not at all uncommon among lifestyle submissives I've met. Some dominants prefer a compliant submissive partner, but I've heard many comment that there's no thrill in topping someone with no will of their own.
Of course, much of being a successful prostitute in the real world is centered around business skills which have nothing to do with one's sexuality. But part of being a successful prostitute is being sensitive enough, skilled enough, and adaptable enough to read and even anticipate the desires of your client, and meeting them or even exceeding them. And that sounds almost exactly like what sexual submission is about, at least to me.
Etoile
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Welcome, Jay Davis - straight male subs are definitely in the minority around here, and another voice is welcome.
There are actually quite a lot of sex workers who identify as lesbians. For most, there is no connection between personal attraction and professional work. Interestingly, nobody ever complains about lesbian sex workers who have sex with men as being "really bisexual" or "not really lesbians" - the prevailing attitude seems to indicate many people understand the distinction between work and personal. And yet for lesbians who have sex with men of their own volition (that is, in their personal life), there is great backlash and discrimination from others in the lesbian community. How's that for a double standard?
There are actually quite a lot of sex workers who identify as lesbians. For most, there is no connection between personal attraction and professional work. Interestingly, nobody ever complains about lesbian sex workers who have sex with men as being "really bisexual" or "not really lesbians" - the prevailing attitude seems to indicate many people understand the distinction between work and personal. And yet for lesbians who have sex with men of their own volition (that is, in their personal life), there is great backlash and discrimination from others in the lesbian community. How's that for a double standard?
That was pretty much my point, Etoile . . . that professional performance, even enjoyment of and pride in one's profession, are neither limited nor defined by one's personal life.
And of course, I was reacting to my perception that Lloyd was falling into the inaccurate but common misperception that submission is only about lying back, being tied down, and flogged silly. In my experience, it is more often an active, creative role, which can take many forms depending on the people involved and the situation or scene. The common thread in submissive acts--from being the subject of intricate Japanese rope bondage, taking a severe flogging, enduring a play-piercing, performing body worship or a boot-blacking--is that the submissive is deriving her or his satisfaction in the act because the act is pleasing to a Dominant he or she has freely chosen to serve.
And thanks for the friendly welcome, Etoile. I find myself easing back into a social life again, in various forms, after spending 18 months devoted almost 24/7 to a small business that ultimately closed its doors. I joined Literotica two years ago, posted a few stories, but never became involved in the forums. Skimming around this forum now, tho, this seems to be a warm and supportive community, and one that I might like to be a part of in some small way.
In answer to the final portion of the original series of questions, regarding "forced" prostitution . . . the idea of serving a Mistress by being "forced" to serve others she designates--regardless of whether there is money exchanged, or whether she knows them well--is exciting as a scene. However, outside of a true, properly-negotiated D/s relationship based on mutual respect, affection, and trust, "forced" prostitution is non-consensual and exploitive, and therefore wrong. I suspect that most of the relationships involving prostitution that is truly coerced, and in which the unwilling prostitute has no option to even leave the relationship, are abusive and exploitive relationships pure and simple, even if they masquerade as D/s relationships.
The line between abuse and exploitation and true D/s is fuzzy, especially when seen from outside the lifestyle. I think it's important that we who are free and willing participants are careful not to shield genuine abusers and their victims, or allow them to hide in our midst. That's why context is so important when discussing things like "forced prostitution." An act that in one case might be loving submission, in another might well be victimization of the most terrible kind.
And of course, I was reacting to my perception that Lloyd was falling into the inaccurate but common misperception that submission is only about lying back, being tied down, and flogged silly. In my experience, it is more often an active, creative role, which can take many forms depending on the people involved and the situation or scene. The common thread in submissive acts--from being the subject of intricate Japanese rope bondage, taking a severe flogging, enduring a play-piercing, performing body worship or a boot-blacking--is that the submissive is deriving her or his satisfaction in the act because the act is pleasing to a Dominant he or she has freely chosen to serve.
And thanks for the friendly welcome, Etoile. I find myself easing back into a social life again, in various forms, after spending 18 months devoted almost 24/7 to a small business that ultimately closed its doors. I joined Literotica two years ago, posted a few stories, but never became involved in the forums. Skimming around this forum now, tho, this seems to be a warm and supportive community, and one that I might like to be a part of in some small way.
In answer to the final portion of the original series of questions, regarding "forced" prostitution . . . the idea of serving a Mistress by being "forced" to serve others she designates--regardless of whether there is money exchanged, or whether she knows them well--is exciting as a scene. However, outside of a true, properly-negotiated D/s relationship based on mutual respect, affection, and trust, "forced" prostitution is non-consensual and exploitive, and therefore wrong. I suspect that most of the relationships involving prostitution that is truly coerced, and in which the unwilling prostitute has no option to even leave the relationship, are abusive and exploitive relationships pure and simple, even if they masquerade as D/s relationships.
The line between abuse and exploitation and true D/s is fuzzy, especially when seen from outside the lifestyle. I think it's important that we who are free and willing participants are careful not to shield genuine abusers and their victims, or allow them to hide in our midst. That's why context is so important when discussing things like "forced prostitution." An act that in one case might be loving submission, in another might well be victimization of the most terrible kind.
Etoile
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I like to think we are warm and supportive, though I think there is a thread about "Lit is mean to newcomers" or something like that...? I'm sorry your business venture didn't work out; that's a totally different kind of 24/7 devotion! As I mentioned, we are sorely lacking in male subs around here, and there are some threads lamenting that fact too. I look forward to seeing you around here more!Jay Davis said:
catalina_francisco
Happily insatiable always
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Jay Davis said:
Welcome Jay, and I hope you find you like it enough here to stay
.....as Etoile said, there is a shortage of male subs here, and overall, male voices on the board so any input from you will be welcomed. You have given a very good picture of what prostitution under the right circumstances can and often is about. Knowing some personally who are in this area, I know there are some women (and men) who are excellent t what they do simply because it is a choice, one they enjoy, and for the really thinking ones, is kept at a level where burnout is not going to taint the experience because they do not book their schedules heavily, thus providing a more relaxed and personal experience where some connection can be established. LOL, I liked your views and experience with an owned slave/sub who worked professionally as a sex worker/top......if you haven't found it as yet, you might find the 'Switching For Service' thread of interest.I also agree that it's important for those who are within the lifestyle to not shield those who would use it as a cover for abuse, and to highlight the differences between what is abuse and an abusive situation, and what is D/s. It is so often the case that the lines become blurred and as in many instances of abuse, the victim then becomes convinced this is the way it should be and to resist means they have failed as a submissive. It is not always a message that is well received, but it is a responsibility I think we all carry. Have fun on the boards.
Catalina
Catalina--thanks for the welcome. So much that you and others have said, I'm dying to comment on, but I've contributed to the hi-jacking of this thread too much already. I'm sure the topics will come up again, in their own threads, or maybe when I have my sea-legs under me a bit better here, I'll raise them myself.
Looking forward to exchanging ideas and opinions with everyone in the near future!
Looking forward to exchanging ideas and opinions with everyone in the near future!
FurryFury
Addict of Sensation
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Never say never.
I'm all for prostitution.
I'll just say I can't see why I'd have to pay for it or under what set of situations I'd get paid but hey I think for others it serves a community service that frankly, doesn't pay the service provider enough. It's all overhead the way the system works now damn it.
Fury
I'm all for prostitution.
I'll just say I can't see why I'd have to pay for it or under what set of situations I'd get paid but hey I think for others it serves a community service that frankly, doesn't pay the service provider enough. It's all overhead the way the system works now damn it.
Fury
For the record, though I've found through direct experience that prostitution really doesn't work for me, I'm all for legalizing it, regulating the health aspects of it, and taxing the hell out of it. It's going to happen, no matter what anyone does or says, so we may as well make it safe and productive for society as a whole.
Nevada is the only state that has a policy on prostitution that makes any sense at all.
Nevada is the only state that has a policy on prostitution that makes any sense at all.
