Protocol vs. Chivalry

[Mr Blonde]

So I guess my question is, although a sub may be at times treated like a slut, or servant, is chivalry a contradiction in terms in BDSM?

Contrasts can send a powerful message and sometimes I want different things.

And I don't know how it works where some of you people live, but if I grab a woman by her hair in public the next thing I would be doing is thinking of a story to tell the judge. And if I forcibly walked a woman into a restaurant and she could not make eye contact or speak to the waiter, I think the police would be at our table long before the appetizers were served.

Rather than playing out the public scene, I like to do the bait and switch. After taking her to a nice restaurant a couple times, and getting her used to the chivalry, I will wait for her to finish getting ready before taking a complete detour to new plans. After something like that, she never knows quite what to expect when I innocently ask to take her to dinner.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Protocol vs. Chivalry

After taking her to a nice restaurant a couple times, and getting her used to the chivalry, I will wait for her to finish getting ready before taking a complete detour to new plans. After something like that, she never knows quite what to expect when I innocently ask to take her to dinner.

LOL.....Master is ever the gentleman, the best I've ever met....but I have come to be suspicious and a little wary when he is at his most chivalrous. I am always waiting for the catch...sometimes there is one, sometimes there isn't. but the unpredictability, and the contradictions, make it all that much sweeter either way.

Catalina

 

[ownedsubgal]

all people are different, all Dominants are different. some are gentlemen through and through, and this does not change simply because they have a submissive/slave. my Master is the ultimate gentleman, imo. He was the first man i had ever encountered in my life who walked me around to the passenger side of the car, opened my door for me, and closed it as well. i had NEVER had that experience. i had never before had someone go get the car when it was raining and drive up to the door of the building, so i would not have to get wet. basically, i had never had anyone treat me like a lady before. so it was a beautiful, refreshing, special thing for me being with someone like my Master. however at the same time, i do walk a few paces behind him, always. but i must always walk slightly to the side of him, so that he can see me or speak to me easily, and i never walk on the "street" side (that's the gentlemanly bit coming in). i don't find walking behind him to be demeaning in the least...i find it rather secure and comforting. it feels unnatural to walk side by side with him, as if i were his equal, and i am far too nervous and shy of a person to be comfortable with walking in front of anyone, especially my Master/Mate.

when we go out in public, whether it's a lifestyle or vanilla setting, i am not permitted to speak without being directly spoken to, and i am not permitted to look any man, with the exception of Daddy, in the eyes. when we go out to eat, he orders for me. sometimes i get to choose what i would like to eat, and i'll tell Daddy, then he will tell the server. sometimes he simply chooses what i will have. either way, it makes me feel like a princess, although i know for others this wouldn't be tolerable.

imo the best Dominants must be gentlemen as well. however i'm sure we all have different ideas as to what makes a man a gentleman.

 

[Netzach]

I'm re-evaluating my own behavior here, a little.

I do pay for the femsub's food if things have gotten past "let's have coffee a lot and talk about sex."

I do take the femsub's arm and walk on the street side, as long as we are in the civilized world and don't have to worry about assholes.

I'm a little sweeter, a little more doting. It's true. I might even buy her little things on the sly if we go shopping together.

Butch bottoms though, or girls who have expressed interest in "being my boy" are different. I expect to have the door held, the street side walked on, and I mercilessly use my pussy to whip them.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Re: Re: Protocol vs. Chivalry

Contrasts can send a powerful message and sometimes I want different things.

And I don't know how it works where some of you people live, but if I grab a woman by her hair in public the next thing I would be doing is thinking of a story to tell the judge. And if I forcibly walked a woman into a restaurant and she could not make eye contact or speak to the waiter, I think the police would be at our table long before the appetizers were served.

my Master and i live in a fairly conservative area...and our public decorum in vanilla places has never caused a stir, for the most part. when waiters notice that i don't make the decisions, even about what i will have to eat or drink, they naturally defer to my Master. same goes for sales people in clothing boutiques and such, they will even start talking with Daddy as if i am a non-speaking/non-comprehending child..."about what size is she? what cut /style are you looking for?" etc. i don't think most people find it odd or unusual. they probably just assume i'm very shy (which, i am). however obviously yanking a woman by the hair or being blatantly physically aggressive is a different story...my Master wouldn't go that route.

 

[Bachlum Chaam]

For myself I am always a gentleman, the lady walks by my side always on the inside of the path never road side, She always goes up the stairs first and down after me. (Wolf I believe this started when ladies wore floor length dresses and were susceptable to tripping over said dress) whenever we would go out outwardly she would be treated as the consumate lady.

Although the wireless vibe control would be in my pocket (as mentioned earlier) I would always insist on her panties if I desired it. Behind closed doors well....... But always no matter what she is a lady and very,very prescious

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Being treated with chivalry in public settings serves to heighten the intensity of being treated like a slut in private settings.

Amen!

If I wanted a doormat, I'd go to Wal-Mart and buy one.

My own feelings are that she has to be someone I love and respect and am proud of. Her submission ony makes her more of a woman to me, and therefore deserving of all the respect due her sex.

Then, when she submits to me, it's that much more delicious.

---dr.M.

 

[Peter2002]

On cummuning with your inner slut

Being treated with chivalry in public settings serves to heighten the intensity of being treated like a slut in private settings.

Dear JupitersGirl:

You are, of course, correct.

But when communing with your inner slut, you must always be a lady.

It's creative tension, but you already know that.

 

[SierraMoon]

my Sir is one who wants the "lady in public, slut in private" kind of sub.

When we are out in public, He always opens the door for me, and waits for me to take the first bite, before He eats. He has conditioned me to not use swear words in public, as ladies don't say such words.

Him being "chivalrous" doesn't make His dominance over me any less, i think it heightens it, because once we are alone........ all bets are off!!!

 

[Peter2002]

my Sir is one who wants the "lady in public, slut in private" kind of sub.

When we are out in public, He always opens the door for me, and waits for me to take the first bite, before He eats. He has conditioned me to not use swear words in public, as ladies don't say such words.

Him being "chivalrous" doesn't make His dominance over me any less, i think it heightens it, because once we are alone........ all bets are off!!!

Exactly.

 

[Guest]

My two cents worth

Having to re-edit this as laptop had a spasm.....

For myself.

I have always seen what is described as "chivalrous" public behavior, to be the desired goal. Especially as regards a sub.
As I told someone a while back. Dominant behavior for me seems to be tied to a whole string of atavistic impulses. The whole urge to protect, care for, etc etc etc....
Whith the given of a D/s relationship that I, being Dom, am the one in charge. In charge meaning both privelidge and responsibility.
Also, I have always considered
the nature of our relationship to be between the two of us, and no one elses business. This makes public life a bit easier, and reduces the chances of encounters with the forces of public enforcement.
On the flip side of this, I have always tried to be adaptable- Knowing that different people require different things to make them feel happy/rewarded in their submission.
Or--
I can be as strict as I think is needed.
I can be as strict as you need.
Whichever is better at the moment.

But

A thought on words.

Some of the difficulty in approaching this particular subject ( it seems to me) always stems from the given understanding of the terms at hand.

And sometimes it would be nice to have access to the ability to make up the terms as needed.

Chivalry is both a way of behavior, and a word for a bunch of badly educated apes on horseback. Most of which, historicly, were only slightly(if any) better than bandits themselves. Society attempted to impose a standard of behavior on them that would emeliorate some of the inherent problems. History shows that it only worked spasticly, when at all.

And demean, is one of those wonderful words that takes us tapdancing through the minefield.
Question, is it demeaning???
Isn't that something very relative to the effected person.
Or do we need to make up a word for the exhibition of behavior that takes as a given, that the Doms interests and wishes are taking precedence over the sub's. And that this is the accepted standard for the two(or more) involved.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: My two cents worth

A thought on words.

Some of the difficulty in approaching this particular subject ( it seems to me) always stems from the given understanding of the terms at hand.

And sometimes it would be nice to have access to the ability to make up the terms as needed ...

Welcome to the slippery slope. No, someone would try to tell you what you really meant by your made up word as well.

... (Question,) is it (demeaning???) ...

"is it" covers the crux of the question.

... Isn't that something very relative to the effected person.

Bingo! We have a winner in this thread!

No, i don't intend the above as derogatory towards you, just a reminder to everyone that a fine line exists between exchanging ideas and pontification. i'll be the first to admit i read some ideas and think "no way in hell," but after a little reflection, i normally chuckle and move on thru the threads. To each their own, and if it works for, more power to them.

... Or do we need to make up a word for the exhibition of behavior that takes as a given, that the Doms interests and wishes are taking precedence over the sub's. And that this is the accepted standard for the two(or more) involved.

Relationships choose anywhere on the spectrum from "kick to the curb" to "romance laced with BDSM." Every one has their own standard, and ain't it great they can have that right? Some relationships get lucky and find the people involved think alike, as well as other things. Those folks seem the most blessed of all. The rest of us work thru differences in opinion as to what's right for the couple somewhere on that sliding scale, and that seems appropriate as well.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: My two cents worth (Chuckling)

Having to re-edit this as laptop had a spasm.....

For myself.

I have always seen what is described as "chivalrous" public behavior, to be the desired goal. Especially as regards a sub.
As I told someone a while back. Dominant behavior for me seems to be tied to a whole string of atavistic impulses. The whole urge to protect, care for, etc etc etc....
Whith the given of a D/s relationship that I, being Dom, am the one in charge. In charge meaning both privelidge and responsibility.
Also, I have always considered
the nature of our relationship to be between the two of us, and no one elses business. This makes public life a bit easier, and reduces the chances of encounters with the forces of public enforcement.
On the flip side of this, I have always tried to be adaptable- Knowing that different people require different things to make them feel happy/rewarded in their submission.
Or--
I can be as strict as I think is needed.
I can be as strict as you need.
Whichever is better at the moment.

i'll skip the thoughts on words this time around.

My goodness, a Dominant that can think on their feet real time. My hat's off to you, and i agree.

re "Also, I have always considered the nature of our relationship to be between the two of us, and no one elses business," i've got a few questions, but i'm not sure they fit in this thread.

 

[Guest]

Re: Re: My two cents worth (Chuckling)

i'll skip the thoughts on words this time around.

My goodness, a Dominant that can think on their feet real time. My hat's off to you, and i agree.

re "Also, I have always considered the nature of our relationship to be between the two of us, and no one elses business," i've got a few questions, but i'm not sure they fit in this thread.

Ask away - but go ahead and start a new thread if you want - I have to admit - one of the things I've been enjoying about the threads (well other than flirting with beautiful women) is the chance of intelligent discussion on topics that interest me.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: My two cents worth (Chuckling)

I have to admit - one of the things I've been enjoying about the threads (well other than flirting with beautiful women) is the chance of intelligent discussion on topics that interest me.

Does make life more interesting and enriching doesn't it!!

Catalina