Questions About Feedback

[bogusagain]

Personally I prefer to know what people think and why with no pulled punches. If someone thinks my poem is total and utter garbage, fine but it would be nice to know why.

 

[vrosej10]

I've got a pretty thick skin when it comes to criticism. I only have a problem with the personal attacks.

I find creative criticism most useful. One of you guys pointed out I was using too many gerunds in After the Earthquake and I love that sort of spot on advice. I have taken some of this into my uni course and workshopping there.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Might I post here to 'Anonymous' who sent me two feedback emails? If you read this Anon I slightly perplexed as you didn't say much in either of your emails. Do I take it that you approve? If so thank you very much although it would be nice to know who you are and why you would rather send emails that post publicly (your words)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I appreciate feedback tremendously. Anyone who takes the time and makes an effort to comment on something I write does me an invaluable service. Because I tend to write what I am experiencing in the depths of my being, I don't always see things the way someone else does. I'm too close; and I'm always evolving.

Actually you just answered a question asked in another thread

 

[twelveoone]

Just because you don't like forms doesn't make them wrong or stupid. Trying to do what they think is right ........ ?

Writing in the wrong form is an uphill battle. All forms have strengths and weaknesses. Grab Fussell's book. And if you want to write sonnets at least read Yeats and ee cimmings.
You (collective you) should spend at least twice as much time reading about the how and why, and at least ten times reading the good poetry as you do writing.
Take the freakin short cuts.

And of course writing in a 12 syllable line is always wrong and stupid. Everybody will tell you that.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Writing in the wrong form is an uphill battle. All forms have strengths and weaknesses. Grab Fussell's book. And if you want to write sonnets at least read Yeats and ee cimmings.
You (collective you) should spend at least twice as much time reading about the how and why, and at least ten times reading the good poetry as you do writing.
Take the freakin short cuts.

And of course writing in a 12 syllable line is always wrong and stupid. Everybody will tell you that.

Isn't that a bit like saying I hate liquorice (and I do) so all liquorice lovers are out of their minds because I say so and for no other reason whatsoever? Just because you can't write forms doesn't make those that can lesser poets. I don't go around saying anyone who does free style for the most part are out of their collective tree, probably because I'm old fashioned enough to have manners

 

[LadyGenevieve]

I was looking through the list of volunteer editors trying to find someone whose profile statement seemed suited to editing a poem for me. I have gone through almost 300 already. There are those who profess stellar qualifications who used a small i to refer to themselves in first person, and others whose sentences make no sense. One person wrote "I never makes mistakes and can't stand to read those who does." I'm sure you get my drift. Because of this, I wonder whether anyone might recommend an editor for a small non-erotic poem? Thanks.

 

[butters]

I was looking through the list of volunteer editors trying to find someone whose profile statement seemed suited to editing a poem for me. I have gone through almost 300 already. There are those who profess stellar qualifications who used a small i to refer to themselves in first person, and others whose sentences make no sense. One person wrote "I never makes mistakes and can't stand to read those who does." I'm sure you get my drift. Because of this, I wonder whether anyone might recommend an editor for a small non-erotic poem? Thanks.

why not post the piece up in a thread on here and invite general feedback/suggestions? i have found that can create some very satisfying pieces, though (for me) it works best from a fairly raw state: if you've already taken the time to revise, polish, edit, edit some more and with each rewrite tighten it close to the tension you demand of it, others' suggestions can be frustrating, not at all what you were hoping for and, fundamentally, a waste of time for those looking to offer help.

as for the lowercase 'i', this would again depend upon the poem's nature. not all poems, nor missives, demand capitalisation - and the use of lowercase doesn't automatically mean the editor lacks any capability when it comes to delivering the goods.

i have regularly worked in an editorial role for other poets, but cannot offer my own undivided attention at the current time, nor (it would sound) is it likely you'd want it.

 

[LadyGenevieve]

why not post the piece up in a thread on here and invite general feedback/suggestions? i have found that can create some very satisfying pieces, though (for me) it works best from a fairly raw state: if you've already taken the time to revise, polish, edit, edit some more and with each rewrite tighten it close to the tension you demand of it, others' suggestions can be frustrating, not at all what you were hoping for and, fundamentally, a waste of time for those looking to offer help.

as for the lowercase 'i', this would again depend upon the poem's nature. not all poems, nor missives, demand capitalisation - and the use of lowercase doesn't automatically mean the editor lacks any capability when it comes to delivering the goods.

i have regularly worked in an editorial role for other poets, but cannot offer my own undivided attention at the current time, nor (it would sound) is it likely you'd want it.

Thank you! I'll post it and see what happens. The lower case i that I was referring to was in this person's qualifications - not their work.

 

[SeattleRain]

What is the little "like" button all about? Do you use it even if you give a star score? What does it mean? Where does it go? Do that many people actually read poems?

 

[twelveoone]

Isn't that a bit like saying I hate liquorice (and I do) so all liquorice lovers are out of their minds because I say so and for no other reason whatsoever? Just because you can't write forms doesn't make those that can lesser poets. I don't go around saying anyone who does free style for the most part are out of their collective tree, probably because I'm old fashioned enough to have manners

Hello?
I just gave you an excellent piece of advice. Go back and read it.
Here is the full title
The Blue Hour is in the structure of a sonnet, it is however inverted. It is also in a 12 syllable lines.
So that triple sarcasm thingies was for me.
Now go out and buy the damn book, see what I am referring too. And when you are done, if you have good manners, you will thank me.
A form is nothing but a box, the box can be merely a sort of gift wrapping or it can serve a more useful purpose. If it has a use, use it. If it is merely a wrapper for your words, discard it and work on the words.
But don't hand me that shit about "just because you can't write forms" and I don't care much for the other attitude either, that if you do write something in a "form" that somehow makes it "better". Two of the best writers that ever came though this place, to my knowledge never wrote in these so-called "forms". Pat Carrington, who I think has something like 3 books out, and jd4george. Both, if I remember where rather "anti-form", both were focused on the writing of poetry. I've read some of your stuff, it looks like you are more interested in poetry than merely writing verse. About half the forms that I know off are more or less dead ends, they will do nothing for you in development of your poetry.
and whether you want to believe it or not, I am seriously interested in the development of yours and everybody else's poetry, if you feel it is important, go for it, but I don't want to bother with what I consider a dead end.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Hello?
I just gave you an excellent piece of advice. Go back and read it.
Here is the full title
The Blue Hour is in the structure of a sonnet, it is however inverted. It is also in a 12 syllable lines.
So that triple sarcasm thingies was for me.
Now go out and buy the damn book, see what I am referring too. And when you are done, if you have good manners, you will thank me.
A form is nothing but a box, the box can be merely a sort of gift wrapping or it can serve a more useful purpose. If it has a use, use it. If it is merely a wrapper for your words, discard it and work on the words.
But don't hand me that shit about "just because you can't write forms" and I don't care much for the other attitude either, that if you do write something in a "form" that somehow makes it "better". Two of the best writers that ever came though this place, to my knowledge never wrote in these so-called "forms". Pat Carrington, who I think has something like 3 books out, and jd4george. Both, if I remember where rather "anti-form", both were focused on the writing of poetry. I've read some of your stuff, it looks like you are more interested in poetry than merely writing verse. About half the forms that I know off are more or less dead ends, they will do nothing for you in development of your poetry.
and whether you want to believe it or not, I am seriously interested in the development of yours and everybody else's poetry, if you feel it is important, go for it, but I don't want to bother with what I consider a dead end.

Serious question ..... why exactly do you want me to read about sonnets in particular? Probably because I'm not so hot on them I am supposing and only wrote them when forced into it by Survivor. They are not a form that I think I will go out of my way to write either but ok I will give it a read. Many poets of the old school wrote in forms and I don't see why people of today shouldn't still love Shakespeare, Walter de la Mare, Rupert Brooke etc
Now I know you yanks don't ever understand English humour I've already stood on other peoples toes so whenever I am joking I put a smiley see this thingy here. Word for the wise English humour is often dry to the point of sarcasm, I'm sorry if you don't understand it but I am English and it's the humour I use and I very often don't get American humour so that makes us quits.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

What is the little "like" button all about? Do you use it even if you give a star score? What does it mean? Where does it go? Do that many people actually read poems?

It's a FaceBook thing I think - it's important to make it known when you "like" something - anything.

While we're asking questions I'd like to know the method for italicizing and bold-ing font - the old <i>....</i> doesn't work ay more with the new set-up. Help -- any body?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

It's a FaceBook thing I think - it's important to make it known when you "like" something - anything.

While we're asking questions I'd like to know the method for italicizing and bold-ing font - the old <i>....</i> doesn't work ay more with the new set-up. Help -- any body?

having had a fiddle what's an indent?

 

[fridayam]

Personally I prefer to know what people think and why with no pulled punches. If someone thinks my poem is total and utter garbage, fine but it would be nice to know why.

I agree with bogusagain. Give it to me straight--though I'm not too hot on the rewriters. Just say what words you like or don't or if you think I've missed the point, or an opportunity to say something better.

I do think, though, sometimes reviewers want your poem to be like the last one they liked of yours, when we all want to experiment sometimes or deliberately write things from different viewpoints to ensure we don't end up saying the same thing over and over. Treat each poem as its own self.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Mind you if something isn't to my taste or more likely I simply dom't understand it, I do have a tendency to quietly pass on by. I've tried giving advice and got rude emails and PMs for my trouble so what's the point in trying to help?

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

I'd like to know the method for italicizing and bold-ing font - the old <i>....</i> doesn't work ay more with the new set-up. Help -- any body?

Bump because I still don't know.

 

[SeattleRain]

Bump because I still don't know.

I think when submitting poems you need to use <i> still </i>

give it a try, it (or something like it) worked on my last poem

 

[twelveoone]

I agree with bogusagain. Give it to me straight--though I'm not too hot on the rewriters. Just say what words you like or don't or if you think I've missed the point, or an opportunity to say something better.

I do think, though, sometimes reviewers want your poem to be like the last one they liked of yours, when we all want to experiment sometimes or deliberately write things from different viewpoints to ensure we don't end up saying the same thing over and over. Treat each poem as its own self.

Neither one of you guys write as bogus says "complete and utter crap", as a matter of fact, rewriting is probably one of the dumbest things I've ever tried. One was a bogus poem, the other a maria2394. Spent weeks destroying both of the poems, destroyed the inner logic of both, and could not come up with anything better. jd4george did the same to me once, he suggested an extra line "that's why we whisper", the whole godamn poem was 8 lines of whisper. If you are going to rewrite, steal it, make it your own, and credit it from whence it was stole.

 

[twelveoone]

I've been doing a lot of comments here lately (thanks to the 52 pick-up challenge), and it has me thinking about feedback: what is helpful and what is not. My comments tend to be long and specific, and I know that comes from years of being an editor. It's hard for me to read anything and not get a flood of ideas about how it might be different and/or better. One of my editor friends once referred to this as a curse.

What, for you, constitutes helpful feedback? When you get what you think is good feedback, what does it look like? What kinds of things do you wish people would (or would not) tell you about a poem you have submitted? Is it distracting to get a lot of info as opposed to something more succinct?

I'd love to know what people think on this subject.

The problem, I have is I think if I put something down as a problem area; (a possible flaw) is it may be perceived as the poem is flawed by the next viewer.
An area that I have questions about.
The comments should serve two purposes (under ideal circumstances),
1. either helpful or recognition of the poem for the writer.
2. either helpful or recognition of value for the next viewer.

I thought I'd bring this up since I was highly critical of one of Angeline's poem. She is trying something new. The criticism was intended to address that part only.
I put a disclaimer at the top. Question is, how far do I have to go for the next viewer.
i.e How widely known do you think a if writer is noted for doing something well, that it no longer has to be commented on?

 

[Angeline]

The problem, I have is I think if I put something down as a problem area; (a possible flaw) is it may be perceived as the poem is flawed by the next viewer.
An area that I have questions about.
The comments should serve two purposes (under ideal circumstances),
1. either helpful or recognition of the poem for the writer.
2. either helpful or recognition of value for the next viewer.

I thought I'd bring this up since I was highly critical of one of Angeline's poem. She is trying something new. The criticism was intended to address that part only.
I put a disclaimer at the top. Question is, how far do I have to go for the next viewer.
i.e How widely known do you think a if writer is noted for doing something well, that it no longer has to be commented on?

I like to read the comments that have been left as well as the poem. If they say the same thing I would have, I then can just agree or even expand on what someone else has said. And if I disagree I'll say that too. For myself, I am aware that certain poets have a distinct voice to the point where I could probably identify the poems as being by them even if I didn't know they wrote it. If I have nothing new to add I guess I wouldn't say anything but as every poem is unique--even if the poet is writing in a way to which I've become accustomed as a reader--I can still usually find something to comment on that I hope will be helpful.

 

[greenmountaineer]

I like to read the comments that have been left as well as the poem. If they say the same thing I would have, I then can just agree or even expand on what someone else has said. And if I disagree I'll say that too. For myself, I am aware that certain poets have a distinct voice to the point where I could probably identify the poems as being by them even if I didn't know they wrote it. If I have nothing new to add I guess I wouldn't say anything but as every poem is unique--even if the poet is writing in a way to which I've become accustomed as a reader--I can still usually find something to comment on that I hope will be helpful.

I enjoy comments that provoke my thinking. Yours do.

 

[fridayam]

I enjoy comments that provoke my thinking. Yours do.

Angeline's always do--she's got me thinking like mad about a poem I posted earlier, damn it

Btw, I didn't know where else to post this but I saw an interesting comment elsewhere on this Forum today.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=36644568#post36644568

Interesting.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Angeline's always do--she's got me thinking like mad about a poem I posted earlier, damn it

Btw, I didn't know where else to post this but I saw an interesting comment elsewhere on this Forum today.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=36644568#post36644568

Interesting.

left my comment!

 

[Angeline]

I have to give the props out to twelveoone. I've known this guy a long time but I'm finding his feedback especially helpful to me these days. He said something to me the other day about Latinate derived versus Anglo-Saxon derived words, and that Latinate words, being more lush and indirect (I guess because of the effect of the subjunctive) give a different kind of effect in a poem than their Anglo counterparts, which are more crisp and direct.

I've never thought about something like that in relation to my poems but I am alot now-- things like lineation and syntax and word derivations-- because I'm seeing that you can do things by intentionally manipulating them or not. They are as much (or should be) a part of a poet's toolkit as rhyme and image and metaphor.

Maybe some poets here (like jthserra and Senna Jawa and a few others I know of) take these things into account when they write, but not many do imo. And I feel like considering all this is helping me know why a word is the right word. Usually I know it is but couldn't tell you why.

So thank you to 1201 and my many teachers here.