Reactions to the BDSM community?

[neci]

It all sounds a bit bizarre to me. You don't get conservative Christians meeting up in darkened rooms wearing pyjamas and floor length night-gowns to whisper about how best to expedite the holy act of procreation and ensure that as little physical pleasure is derived from it as possible.

yes you do...
they just call them religious cults here in the south.

 

[HarlotMinx]

*reposted* odd i sent one post and it ended up sending dozen instead.

 

[Sayyid]

I too would feel that way, probably. I'm not into edgeplay. I have very specific tastes in BDSM, but they are BDSM all the same.

I love your avatar by the way. Girl + book + stockings = dreamy.

 

[Sayyid]

Double post, ignore it.

 

[Netzach]

It's for that reason that things like TNG (the next generatio) groups have sprung up because while I have no problem whatsoever with people getting nasty into their nineties, I don't necessarily want to make small talk with middle aged people who still think they can carry off a corset and thong.

Being wedged at 35, PRECISELY in between the "older Gorean tool" and "TNG" demographic I'll point out that the 25 year old who's hopped up on endorphins and thinks they're the shit because they play soooooo hard with a 20 person dance card is as tiresome and is more hell bent on sharing with you. And often looks worse in a corset and thong than some of the hot mama's of the 40+ demographic IMO.

It all sounds a bit bizarre to me. You don't get conservative Christians meeting up in darkened rooms wearing pyjamas and floor length night-gowns to whisper about how best to expedite the holy act of procreation and ensure that as little physical pleasure is derived from it as possible.

The less likely your sexual interest is to kill people or get you arrested for some reason, the less likely you feel a need to share.

I find that MORE resistance to the notion of community often comes from the bottom. While I think there are bottoming skills in the world to be shared there's no emphasis on that, one of my issues with the community, but at least we've figured out that if I, as a 23 year old grasshopper, if I have the desire to step on people and smack them up and hurt them and if I'm not a sociopath, might benefit from shared skills.

Even if I don't want to remain BFF's with the people I can find out how not to send my partner to the hospital from, getting together is a necessary evil of sorts from my angle.

 

[YourCaptor]

Mostly the community just makes me laugh, lets all be a bit more serious shall we. Not to mention that smacking someone takes years of total dedication cause its sooooo hard to do.

The costumes are just bizarre too. Most of these things are designed to accentuate something. If your body doesn't have it to start with just don't even try.

And then everyone's old.

And honestly I have no desire to live out a highschool musical.

 

[Netzach]

If what you're doing is smacking someone, I'm the first to say this is not rocket science and it's stupid when people act like it is.

If you're doing it with a singletail whip, you might want to talk to a few other people and practice a few hours before you jump in with both feet. Again it's not magical mystical wooooo and I resent the going overboard that people do. However, I also think it pays to get some practical knowhow and not invent the wheel.

If you like implements, you might learn a few really neat tricks by watching someone else.

I appreciate knowing how not to cause urethral infections, how not to break someone's spine, how to beat someone in such a manner that they fall in love with it. I like new and untested things, I'd get bored by asserting myself the same way all the time.

If the crowd at the Walker After Hours parties had after hours sex parties, I'd like that.

 

[Netzach]

The costumes are just bizarre too. Most of these things are designed to accentuate something. If your body doesn't have it to start with just don't even try.

It's completely over most people's heads that a lot of times, it's not purely about the look externally to tightlacing or rubber or leather, but how it feels to the wearer.

I honestly don't give a flying rat's ass what anyone thinks when I'm masked, encased, and dripping my own sweat. It turns me on to get stuck in this slick tight drippy encasement, like it turns on a maso to know they bleed and feel.

This is exactly why I don't bother.

If I do dress up, I'm an asshole. If I don't dress up, I'm a subbie communal property because if I were a Domme I'd be dressed like one. If I play hard, I can't be M/s D/s, and if I don't I have to listen to adrenaline junkies wax full of disdain at lightweights.

 

[rosco rathbone]

and some of the coolest people seem to keep themselves divorced of the public community.

 

[00Syd]

There are good and bad aspects of the public scene, just like there are good BDSM groups and bad ones, good events and mediocre ones, play parties and SM (Stand and Model) parties. I've recently become involved with the public scene in the NYC area and have encountered all kinds.

It bothers me when I hear people say "It seems like the majority of the scene is assholes and posers" as their reason for not going out to events because there are assholes and posers and ass-kissers and pompous blowhards everywhere. The first BDSM event I ever went to was a "novice munch" put on by the more established group in the area, and it was incredibly awkward. Everyone was either older than me or there with friends or in some sort of fetish-y wear and I felt very out of place. I was shy and hardly spoke to anyone. Because of this experience I didn't go back to any other event for a year.

When I finally worked up the courage to try getting into the scene again, I went to a munch put on by a much different group with a much different vibe and loved it. Everyone was so welcoming and friendly. Since then I've become pretty involved in the scene and spend time with a bunch of different groups (including the first one) and go to events and parties sponsored by lots of different people.

I realize that not everyone lives in a place where there is a plethora of groups to choose from and explore and that I'm lucky that I do. Whether or not someone is comfortable getting involved with the local community is fine and obviously completely up to them, but I hate it when people don't even give it a chance. I'm so happy that I overcame my shyness and dived in because now I have a whole bunch of great friends that I didn't have before.

In my experience the good outweighs the bad. It's easy to avoid the assholes (you can usually spot them from pretty far away), and easy to turn a bad event into a good one with the right attitude and some friends. Most people are friendly and welcoming and there are a lot of knowledgeable people who are more than willing to share. I've met a lot of great people and learned a ton and had some really fun times.

But, of course, as always, to each their own.

 

[00Syd]

And I have absolutely no interest in most of the sub-interest that people in the community have (ren-faires, RPGs, whatever), but that doesn't mean I have nothing in common with them or its impossible for me to be friends with them. Honestly, hardly anyone shares my non-BDSM interests, but I seem to find friends okay.

And I'm not at all into fetish-wear. I don't usually think it looks good (most of the time I think its ugly), and I don't enjoy the feeling of leather or latex or PVC, and I'm usually the only one wearing a brightly colored cotton flower print in a dungeon that's a sea of black synthetic fabric, but I always end up having a good time anyway.

 

[00Syd]

I'd hate to go to a gathering, a munch, a group and feel inadequate because my level of kink is well below what is 'expected'. I'd feel a failure as submissive to be honest and that would affect my relationship with my PYL.

I've never gone to a public munch or party or anything like that where there is some expectation of how kinky everyone has to be. Some people are only into spanking and that's it, other people go to the extremes of edge play, and they're all pretty friendly with each other. I'm hardly the most submissive or masochistic girl out there, and I've had issues with feeling of inadequacy in the past, but none of it has come from going to parties and seeing a girl take more hits with a flogger than I could or something like that. My feelings of inadequacy are, in all honesty, more often fanned by things I read here on lit than anything I experience in the public scene.

 

[00Syd]

I find that MORE resistance to the notion of community often comes from the bottom. While I think there are bottoming skills in the world to be shared there's no emphasis on that, one of my issues with the community, but at least we've figured out that if I, as a 23 year old grasshopper, if I have the desire to step on people and smack them up and hurt them and if I'm not a sociopath, might benefit from shared skills.

Even if I don't want to remain BFF's with the people I can find out how not to send my partner to the hospital from, getting together is a necessary evil of sorts from my angle.

Just re: bottoming skills: I've actually noticed a lot of classes cropping up lately on bottoming skills of various sorts. I attended a bottoming class about a month ago and it actually really helped me with some stuff. Its pretty neat-o to see classes where I could learn something instead of being dragged around to various topping classes that I have to sit through/be the occasional practice-dummy. The educational aspect of the scene seems to be becoming more bottom-friendly, at least around here.

 

[BiBunny]

Sure, there are assholes everywhere, just like there are in the "scene." That's why I'm not particularly social, period, in the "scene" or otherwise, because I don't have a tolerance for assholes. Hence, the self-employed thing.

 

[Keroin]

Syd, interesting perspective, as always. Thanks.

Here's what I feel about all public gatherings/events, if I'm going to go, I'm going for a purpose. When it comes to BDSM, for me, there's no purpose in going. I have more vanilla friends than I can keep up with as it is, (and they're awesome!), I feel no desire to learn anything as my variety of play is organic, (and I prefer it that way), and I'm not single, so I'm not looking for a like-minded partner. I'm not sure what other reasons I would have for attending a BDSM event?

Look, I love cats but I don't go to cat shows or meet with fellow cat lovers for lunch. Conversely, I love triathlon and when I'm back in the world I will actively be seeking out training groups. The difference is, with the former, owning and loving cats is enough and if I have a question I can ask my vet or search for info online, with the latter, I am constantly seeking ways to improve my skills and being with a group is good motivation for training, so taking part in groups and events helps me achieve my goals.

Plus, I'm very social and generally have a full plate with various other activities so taking time to get involved with the BDSM community would be taking away from something else or someone else that I love. For me, it's just not worth it.

 

[Homburg]

If I do dress up, I'm an asshole. If I don't dress up, I'm a subbie communal property because if I were a Domme I'd be dressed like one. If I play hard, I can't be M/s D/s, and if I don't I have to listen to adrenaline junkies wax full of disdain at lightweights.

This is something I just don't get. The local domme's just dress casual, and no one messes with them. Maybe it is this group in specific, or maybe it is just the overall dearth of Mdoms in it. *shrug*

Yes, I realise that this group is weird in that I am often the only dominant male at a given party or event. I'm fine with it. I get along with the Fdoms from around here much better than the male counterparts.

As to the question, I am a member of a munch group, but only a very occasional player. I miss most of the socials, and almost never go to munches. My average is probably 2-3 parties or other events each year, and I go to maybe one educational event a year.

The group is largely older than I am (36 still, dammit), but we're not talking crotchety 90 year olds. Actually, there is one older chap that is probably in his 80's. He's a British ex-pat, the nicest person you'll ever meet, and chock full of fascinating stories stemming from almost twice my entire lifespan's involvement in the scene all over the world. He's the most polite and lovely person, and all the Fdoms adore him.

I love having him around because he's just a fantastic guy. Then again, I don't go to social to see and be seen. I go to socials to do public scenes (I like the performance aspect), and to socialise with the folks in the group that I like. So it really doesn't matter to me when someone else dresses up.

And we do have one particular lady that is somewhere around 50 and looks stupendous in a corset. Stupendous. She can wear a corset any old time she wants.

So the short answer is that I kind of like the scene, but I only partake here and there.

 

[Keroin]

I don't necessarily want to make small talk with middle aged people who still think they can carry off a corset and thong. I have no real interest in other people's sex lives.

And we do have one particular lady that is somewhere around 50 and looks stupendous in a corset. Stupendous. She can wear a corset any old time she wants.

Yeah, I wanted to pipe up about the sweeping generalization. As someone who lives on a beach and sees mostly naked tourists on a fairly regular basis, and also as someone who neither wears nor has any interest in corsets, and finally as someone who just officially reached middle age, I'd like to say that I'm quite confident that I could pull off a corset and thong much better than than most girls half my age.

So there.

It all sounds a bit bizarre to me. You don't get conservative Christians meeting up in darkened rooms wearing pyjamas and floor length night-gowns to whisper about how best to expedite the holy act of procreation and ensure that as little physical pleasure is derived from it as possible.

This just screams for a comedy sketch.

 

[CutieMouse]

Yeah, I wanted to pipe up about the sweeping generalization. As someone who lives on a beach and sees mostly naked tourists on a fairly regular basis, and also as someone who neither wears nor has any interest in corsets, and finally as someone who just officially reached middle age, I'd like to say that I'm quite confident that I could pull off a corset and thong much better than than most girls half my age.

So there.

Same here... except for the lives on a beach part.

 

[rida]

Yeah, I wanted to pipe up about the sweeping generalization. As someone who lives on a beach and sees mostly naked tourists on a fairly regular basis, and also as someone who neither wears nor has any interest in corsets, and finally as someone who just officially reached middle age, I'd like to say that I'm quite confident that I could pull off a corset and thong much better than than most girls half my age.

So there.

Same here... except for the lives on a beach part.

I feel like bragging today so:

Me three

but no tropical beach living ...


ETA: as for the topic at hand. I've not had a chance to go to any events or meet with local kinksters (only went once or twice to a club with some side action going on and once to a prodomme club where I quickly became the play-thing).
However I've been checking it out from a distance for a while.
It seems to me that there are two trends here in Tokyo: the highly fashion-conscious and fetish-wear conscious world of BDSM (a foreign introduced concept) and the more underground, mostly Japanese, more shibari/kimbaku/SM oriented.
Fetish wear and goth lolitas are basically fashion trends on their own, that not necessarely carry BDSM meaning in this society. On the other hand mild SM is basically pretty much entrenched in their sexual fantasy world.

 

[Ladythunder]

Ok, so now I am all torn and stuff! (not really)

I am attending my very first workshop in almost exactly a month. Two workshops actually, one on 'bondage for sex' and a fireplay one that run back to back. The group putting on the workshops is well established and their presenters have been doing this quite some time, yada yada.

I think it will be a blast, but as I read the various opinions from the people here I find myself still wanting to go, and yet, wishing I could take an ACME portable hole with me to fall in if the people there are twits.

Maybe that's also why I am attending a couple munches a few weeks before the workshops too, so at least I have a handle on some of the people that will attend.

 

[JMohegan]

I was wondering how many people here are active in bdsm communities whether from munches to large organizations. If so, why and what are your reactions about those communities and if not why and what are your reactions?

No, because I'm not into the culture (collars, "master," etc.), not an exhibitionist, not a voyeur, and not a fan of the politics involved in organized social groups.

Years ago, I popped in and out of clubs and dungeons fairly often - more out of curiosity than anything else. Made a couple of very good friends that way, but never stuck around the organizations themselves.

I get together with both my kinky and non-kinky friends in typical mainstream, middle aged ways - athletics, volunteering, dinner parties, and whatnot.

 

[JMohegan]

We've thought about attending an event or munch but have never got around to it. The fact is that we have no real interest whatsoever in how other lifestylers get their kicks. We are who we are and that's enough for us.

People have said before that events like you described are often attended mostly by older, more 'established' kinksters and that doesn't appeal to us either. It's for that reason that things like TNG (the next generatio) groups have sprung up because while I have no problem whatsoever with people getting nasty into their nineties, I don't necessarily want to make small talk with middle aged people who still think they can carry off a corset and thong. I have no real interest in other people's sex lives.

I'd much rather make small talk with an overweight, out of shape, friendly person of any age than a stuck up bitch.

Not saying you're a stuck up bitch, VD. I have no idea how you feel about or present yourself. Just wondering why women rip each other apart like this.

 

[Netzach]

This is something I just don't get. The local domme's just dress casual, and no one messes with them. Maybe it is this group in specific, or maybe it is just the overall dearth of Mdoms in it. *shrug*

Yes, I realise that this group is weird in that I am often the only dominant male at a given party or event. I'm fine with it. I get along with the Fdoms from around here much better than the male counterparts.

This cuts both ways, though.

I've found that I like showing up to play in a flower print summer dress as much as I like showing up to play encased. Both. And. Bisexual and greedy, all that.

When I've done the latter, the people who were very charming and nice to me when I last showed up casual are liable to write me off as less serious or doing this as a service for men who like the visual, or for any reason other than my own damn pleasure, which I don't have to explain or justify. They get very um, catty. '

There IS pleasure to be found in dress and in viewing and being viewed, and there's nothing that makes someone an inferior being if they partake in that pleasure.

I find the reactionary nonsense at least AS annoying as the shallowness of the dress for pleasure world. They annoy me equally. I should be able to show up in full freaking regalia with a retinue of 3 dudes as ponies OR after work in a Hold Steady T shirt and tennies and not have to feel like this is going to make or break my fetish experience. I can totally be a Domme in my PJ's, but I shouldn't have to be.

 

[HarlotMinx]

This cuts both ways, though.

I've found that I like showing up to play in a flower print summer dress as much as I like showing up to play encased. Both. And. Bisexual and greedy, all that.

When I've done the latter, the people who were very charming and nice to me when I last showed up casual are liable to write me off as less serious or doing this as a service for men who like the visual, or for any reason other than my own damn pleasure, which I don't have to explain or justify. They get very um, catty. '

There IS pleasure to be found in dress and in viewing and being viewed, and there's nothing that makes someone an inferior being if they partake in that pleasure.

I find the reactionary nonsense at least AS annoying as the shallowness of the dress for pleasure world. They annoy me equally. I should be able to show up in full freaking regalia with a retinue of 3 dudes as ponies OR after work in a Hold Steady T shirt and tennies and not have to feel like this is going to make or break my fetish experience. I can totally be a Domme in my PJ's, but I shouldn't have to be.

Actually, we've noticed that too. Neither of us are big on dressing up though Moon belly dances a lot so she's been asked in the past to dance at the local club when they were having more social events. I swear people have gone up and literally had this exchange
"I thought you were a mistress!"
"Um... I am..."
"But you belly dance!"

Oh or the time she was told that she ought to be careful because she was wearing a choker and only slaves wear things around her neck. They warned her that people might think she's a slave and not talk with her or treat her like one. I think it's about the only time I've ever seen her want to smack someone upside the head for their stupidity.

So yes the clothes are one part but their IS a contingent of casually dressed at most events. I was more thinking about the 'level 9 whip master' types. I mean I've noticed their seems to be a lot of importance placed on jockeying for position and prestige and frankly I've never understood to what end.

 

[00Syd]

Actually, we've noticed that too. Neither of us are big on dressing up though Moon belly dances a lot so she's been asked in the past to dance at the local club when they were having more social events. I swear people have gone up and literally had this exchange
"I thought you were a mistress!"
"Um... I am..."
"But you belly dance!"

Oh or the time she was told that she ought to be careful because she was wearing a choker and only slaves wear things around her neck. They warned her that people might think she's a slave and not talk with her or treat her like one. I think it's about the only time I've ever seen her want to smack someone upside the head for their stupidity.

This shit drives me up the wall. When people make assumptions about your role or orientation or whatever and then treat you accordingly, or assume that everyone else must have the same dynamic of outlook that they do and treat people that way, or anything like that. The main problem with the scene that I've encountered so far has been assumptions, and they go both (all) ways, from every type of orientation and dynamic to others. It is equally wrong for a dominant to assume that I am submissive in the same way that his girlfriend is and not acknowledge my presence when he talks to Seb and I'm RIGHT THERE as it is for me to assume that every dude who approaches me is either an asshole or a creep.

IMO everyone should, at least at first, be approached neutrally and as equals. If you then learn that their dynamic or role states that they should be approaches a different way, then adjust the way you approach them. And if I accidentally speak to some women who's dominant speaks for her, and they yell at me for doing the wrong thing, it's not me who is in the wrong. They should explain their dynamic to me and I'll respect it after I learn what it is. It is wrong of them to assume that I would have their same dynamic and so understand their rules right off the bat.

Yeah. I talked about this at length in the asshat awards thread so I won't go into it here. Suffice it to say that I find assumptions to be the biggest problem in the scene and the main thing that makes it an intimidating place. Its something that we can ALL work on.