Reading the classics

[alice_underneath]

Yet another LOTR fan!

Yes...my most beloved passage from the trilogy but I enjoy it more when Arwen recites it to Elrond just before he reforges the Flame of the West.

Ahh, yes. One of the many alterations made by Peter Jackson in transferring the books to film.

I agree with you, that change worked well.

Alice

 

[raven2]

Yet another LOTR fan!

Ahh, yes. One of the many alterations made by Peter Jackson in transferring the books to film.

I agree with you, that change worked well.

Alice

I have two favorite passages. The first is the end of the Ride of the Rohirrim:

"Arise, arise, Riders of Theoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
a sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises.
Ride now , ride now! Ride to Gondor!"

Suddenly the king cried to Snowmane and the horse sprang away. Behind him his banner blew in the wind, white horse upon a field of green, but he outpaced it. After him thundered the knights of his house, but he was ever before them. Eomer rode there, the white horsetail on his helm floating in his speed, and the front of the first eored roared like a breaker foaming to the shore......"

This reminds me a lot of Homer especially the Illiad.

The second is from The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.:

"And lo! even as he laughed at despair he looked out again on the black ships, and he lifted up his sword to defy them.

And the wonder took him and a great joy; and he cast his sword up in the sunlight and sang as he caught it. And all eyes followed his gaze, and behold! upon the formost ship a great standard broke, and the wind displayed it as she turned towards the Harlond. There flowered a White Tree and that was for Gondor, but Seven Stars were about it and a high crown above it, the signs of Elendil that no lord had borne for years beyond count."

This was the one scene that I missed most in the movie, where the standard breaks out.

 

[chelseachained]

quite the reading list

i went off to work this morning and came home to find we have ammassed a tremendous reading list...smiles i am sooo enjoying this

 

[alice_underneath]

I have two favorite passages. The first is the end of the Ride of the Rohirrim:

......................

The second is from The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.:

......................

Raven,

Your post made me smile so much. Those are my Husband's favorite Tolkien chapters, too.

Alice

 

[alice_underneath]

This reminds me a lot of Homer especially the Illiad.

Your comment prompted me to compare & contrast some of the Homer and Tolkien characters. First - the powerful women.

On the one hand there is Circe, the wicked enchantress who seduces Odysseus and ensnares his men for an entire year. Before she agrees to their release, Odysseus must literally beg for it at her feet.

We stayed with Circe for a whole twelvemonth feasting upon an untold quantity both of meat and wine. But when the year had passed in the waning of moons and the long days had come round, my men called me apart and said, 'Sir, it is time you began to think about going home, if so be you are to be spared to see your house and native country at all.'

Thus did they speak and I assented. Thereon through the livelong day to the going down of the sun we feasted our fill on meat and wine, but when the sun went down and it came on dark the men laid themselves down to sleep in the covered cloisters. I, however, after I had got into bed with Circe, besought her by her knees, and the goddess listened to what I had got to say.

The Odyssey by Homer, translated by Samuel Butler

~~~~~~~

In contrast, Tolkien gives us Eowyn, whose strength and determination is used not to corrupt, but to protect and defend.

"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."

A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."

"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel.

"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."

The Return of the King, by J.R.R. Tolkien

~~~~~~

It's so hard to choose a favorite Tolkien passage, but that scene with Eowyn and the Nazgul Lord is right at the top of my list.

Alice

 

[alice_underneath]

One more comparison of Homer & Tolkien characters....

Penelope and Rosie Cotton - patient, faithful, loving. Welcoming their heroes home at the end of the tale.

From The Odyssey:

Then Ulysses in his turn melted, and wept as he clasped his dear and faithful wife to his bosom. As the sight of land is welcome to men who are swimming towards the shore, when Neptune has wrecked their ship with the fury of his winds and waves- a few alone reach the land, and these, covered with brine, are thankful when they find themselves on firm ground and out of danger- even so was her husband welcome to her as she looked upon him, and she could not tear her two fair arms from about his neck.

and from The Return of the King:

But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap.

He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said.

 

[raven2]

Your comment prompted me to compare & contrast some of the Homer and Tolkien characters. First - the powerful women.

On the one hand there is Circe, the wicked enchantress who seduces Odysseus and ensnares his men for an entire year. Before she agrees to their release, Odysseus must literally beg for it at her feet.

We stayed with Circe for a whole twelvemonth feasting upon an untold quantity both of meat and wine. But when the year had passed in the waning of moons and the long days had come round, my men called me apart and said, 'Sir, it is time you began to think about going home, if so be you are to be spared to see your house and native country at all.'

Thus did they speak and I assented. Thereon through the livelong day to the going down of the sun we feasted our fill on meat and wine, but when the sun went down and it came on dark the men laid themselves down to sleep in the covered cloisters. I, however, after I had got into bed with Circe, besought her by her knees, and the goddess listened to what I had got to say.

The Odyssey by Homer, translated by Samuel Butler

~~~~~~~

In contrast, Tolkien gives us Eowyn, whose strength and determination is used not to corrupt, but to protect and defend.

"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."

A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."

"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"

Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel.

"But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him."

The Return of the King, by J.R.R. Tolkien

~~~~~~

It's so hard to choose a favorite Tolkien passage, but that scene with Eowyn and the Nazgul Lord is right at the top of my list.

Alice

I certainly do understand your liking for that scene. Esp. the dramatic foreshadowing when the Lord of the Nazgul realizes he may have a problem.

 

[raven2]

Penelope and Rosie Cotton - patient, faithful, loving. Welcoming their heroes home at the end of the tale.

From The Odyssey:

Then Ulysses in his turn melted, and wept as he clasped his dear and faithful wife to his bosom. As the sight of land is welcome to men who are swimming towards the shore, when Neptune has wrecked their ship with the fury of his winds and waves- a few alone reach the land, and these, covered with brine, are thankful when they find themselves on firm ground and out of danger- even so was her husband welcome to her as she looked upon him, and she could not tear her two fair arms from about his neck.

and from The Return of the King:

But Sam turned to Bywater, and so came back up the Hill, as day was ending once more. And he went on, and there was yellow light, and fire within; and the evening meal was ready, and he was expected. And Rose drew him in, and set him in his chair, and put little Elanor upon his lap.

He drew a deep breath. "Well, I'm back," he said.

Yes , you are right. but I always felt it was a bad ending. Itj ust always felt too abrupt and short. Then I found the epilogue and understood why it felt that way. Though it is too long to write here (a few pages), it is chapter XI of Sauron Defeated. That is book IX of Christopher Tolkien's The History of Middle Earth. Suffice it to say it is 15 years later and Sam is telling his children that Aragorn and court will be coming north to meet them. and after he explains things and sends them to bed, he is seen talking with Rose.

These are the last couple of paragraphs:

Master Samwise stood at the door and looked away eastward. He drew Mistress Rose to him and set his arm about her.

"March the twenty-fifth!" he said. "This day seventeen years ago Rose wife, I didn't think I should ever see thee again. But I kept on hoping."

"I never hoped at all, Sam," she said, "not until that very day; and then suddenly I did. In the middle of the morning I began singing. And father said: "Quiet, lass or the ruffians will come," and I said " Let them come. Their time will soon be over. My Sam's coming back."

"And you came back" said Rose.

"I did," said Sam "to the most belovedest place in all the world. I was torn in two then, lass, but now I am whole. And all that I have and all that I have had, I still have."

They went in and shut the door. But even as he did so Sam heard suddenly the sigh and murmur of the sea on the shores of Middle-earth.

This was supposed to have been the real end to the story but the publishers felt that it had been drawn out too long. To my way of thinking it is the way it should have ended as it brings everything full circle and ends with the sea.

 

[chelseachained]

D H Lawrence

wondering if anyone has read D H Lawrence?
excerpt:

And yet when he had finished, soon over, and lay very very still, receding into silence, and a strange motionless distance, far, farther than the horizon of her awareness, her heart began to weep. She could feel him ebbing away, ebbing away, leaving her there like a stone on a shore. He was withdrawing, his spirit was leaving her. He knew.

And in real grief, tormented by her own double consciousness and reaction, she began to weep. He took no notice, or did not even know. The storm of weeping swelled and shook her, and shook him.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

D H Lawrence

wondering if anyone has read D H Lawrence?
excerpt:

And yet when he had finished, soon over, and lay very very still, receding into silence, and a strange motionless distance, far, farther than the horizon of her awareness, her heart began to weep. She could feel him ebbing away, ebbing away, leaving her there like a stone on a shore. He was withdrawing, his spirit was leaving her. He knew.

And in real grief, tormented by her own double consciousness and reaction, she began to weep. He took no notice, or did not even know. The storm of weeping swelled and shook her, and shook him.

Lawrence is one of my favorites.I'm not big on literary criticism. In fact, I went to college as an English major and quickly changed my major to philosophy. It's a convulated story but I discovered the short comings of university English departments that Jaques Barzun documented so well.
All of which is only to say that I was suprised once to find in a bibliography a listing of a work from an English prof. by the LSU press. The author's name escapes me but the title was:THE TRUTH TELLERS:JANE AUSTIN, GEORGE ELIOT, AND D H LAWRENCE. Anyone who sees that connection is my kind of person.

Well, not to stray from the subject, I must mention one of my favorite BDSM stories of all time. A short story by Lawrence entitled "The Woman Who Walked Away." It probably won't be easy to find and is too long to post. I can assure you that the story is worth whatever effort it takes to find. Find, read, and be shaken to the core.

 

[chelseachained]

searching

Lawrence is one of my favorites.I'm not big on literary criticism. In fact, I went to college as an English major and quickly changed my major to philosophy. It's a convulated story but I discovered the short comings of university English departments that Jaques Barzun documented so well.
All of which is only to say that I was suprised once to find in a bibliography a listing of a work from an English prof. by the LSU press. The author's name escapes me but the title was:THE TRUTH TELLERS:JANE AUSTIN, GEORGE ELIOT, AND D H LAWRENCE. Anyone who sees that connection is my kind of person.

Well, not to stray from the subject, I must mention one of my favorite BDSM stories of all time. A short story by Lawrence entitled "The Woman Who Walked Away." It probably won't be easy to find and is too long to post. I can assure you that the story is worth whatever effort it takes to find. Find, read, and be shaken to the core.

not immediately finding one under that title, is it possibly contained in "women in love"? thank you soft smiles c.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Sources

not immediately finding one under that title, is it possibly contained in "women in love"? thank you soft smiles c.

SPECIAL SOURCES NOTE: Since I am living in a small apartment at the time, I have had to store many of my books. A small difference in title can make a huge difference in searches. Please be advised.

After making the post, I thought that the title was "The Woman who Rode Away." I found the story in a collection of DHL stories in a small paperback in a second-hand shop. I supect that it may be something that was appearing in book form for the first time. It may have been published in a periodical orginally. I will try to find a source. In the meantime, if anyone is able to find a current souce, I would be grateful.

Wish I could be more helpful at this time.

 

[alice_underneath]

After making the post, I thought that the title was "The Woman who Rode Away." I found the story in a collection of DHL stories in a small paperback in a second-hand shop. I supect that it may be something that was appearing in book form for the first time. It may have been published in a periodical orginally. I will try to find a source. In the meantime, if anyone is able to find a current souce, I would be grateful.

The Woman Who Rode Away and Other Stories (The Cambridge Edition of the Works of D. H. Lawrence)

http://*******.com/gvaye

Edited to add: used copies available at this link -

http://*******.com/fltsb

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Thanks

The Woman Who Rode Away and Other Stories (The Cambridge Edition of the Works of D. H. Lawrence)

http://*******.com/gvaye

Thank you. I suspected that it might be found in a collected works volume.

 

[chelseachained]

The woman who rode away

http://www.yahooey.com/authors/lawr...way-and-other-stories/part-01/chapter-01.html
can be read online here
i just finished this read and at the moment am at a loss for words
excerpt:
It is the colour of the wind. It is the colour of what goes away and is never coming back, but which is always here, waiting like death among us. It is the colour of the dead. And it is the colour that stands away off, looking at us from the distance, that cannot come near to us. When we go near, it goes farther. It can't be near. We are all brown and yellow and black hair, and white teeth and red blood. We are the ones that are here. You with blue eyes, you are the messengers from the far-away, you cannot stay, and now it is time for you to go back."
Thank you for pointing this story out.

 

[alice_underneath]

wondering if anyone has read D H Lawrence?
excerpt:

And yet when he had finished, soon over, and lay very very still, receding into silence, and a strange motionless distance, far, farther than the horizon of her awareness, her heart began to weep. She could feel him ebbing away, ebbing away, leaving her there like a stone on a shore. He was withdrawing, his spirit was leaving her. He knew.

And in real grief, tormented by her own double consciousness and reaction, she began to weep. He took no notice, or did not even know. The storm of weeping swelled and shook her, and shook him.

Though Lady Chatterley's Lover isn't one of my favorites, I agree that some of the erotic language in the book is exquisite.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, here's a quote from the scene in which she visits the gamekeeper's hut for the first time:

"Sit 'ere then a bit, and warm yer," he said.

She obeyed him. He had that curious kind of protective authority she obeyed at once. So she sat and warmed her hands at the blaze, and dropped logs on the fire, whilst outside he was hammering again. She did not really want to sit, poked in a corner by the fire; she would rather have watched from the door, but she was being looked after, so she had to submit.

Alice

 

[chelseachained]

He has a way with words

Though Lady Chatterley's Lover isn't one of my favorites, I agree that some of the erotic language in the book is exquisite.

In keeping with the spirit of this thread, here's a quote from the scene in which she visits the gamekeeper's hut for the first time:

"Sit 'ere then a bit, and warm yer," he said.

She obeyed him. He had that curious kind of protective authority she obeyed at once. So she sat and warmed her hands at the blaze, and dropped logs on the fire, whilst outside he was hammering again. She did not really want to sit, poked in a corner by the fire; she would rather have watched from the door, but she was being looked after, so she had to submit.

Alice

and I found and read "the woman who rode away" it was disturbing.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Symbol Or Literal?

and I found and read "the woman who rode away" it was disturbing.

Taken as a literal account, it is definately disturbing. Knowing DHL, such things have to be taken symbolicaly. Lawrence believed that modern civilization stripped away what was essential in man/woman. Remember the description of the world in Lady C? The constant black sky, the soot of the coal mines--all the things that Lawrence regarded as dehumanizing. THE WOMAN WHO RODE AWAY is parable of modern man returned to more primative roots. I think the title is significant. She didn't ride "to" but "away."

 

[chelseachained]

still unsettled

Taken as a literal account, it is definately disturbing. Knowing DHL, such things have to be taken symbolicaly. Lawrence believed that modern civilization stripped away what was essential in man/woman. Remember the description of the world in Lady C? The constant black sky, the soot of the coal mines--all the things that Lawrence regarded as dehumanizing. THE WOMAN WHO RODE AWAY is parable of modern man returned to more primative roots. I think the title is significant. She didn't ride "to" but "away."

The thing that keeps rolling around in my head is how she ended up even in her lucid moment apathetic to her own plight.

 

[LadyAria]

I've always enjoyed Henry James' "The Turn of the Screw" The sexual tension between her and her Master. How the interactions always trigger hallunications. The control he holds over her behavior. I love this story and it just busts with erotic tension.

 

[chelseachained]

A wonderful reccomendation

I've always enjoyed Henry James' "The Turn of the Screw" The sexual tension between her and her Master. How the interactions always trigger hallunications. The control he holds over her behavior. I love this story and it just busts with erotic tension.

Greetings and a pleasure to meet you Lady Aria,
It has been a long time since i read that wonderful story and now i shall have to re-read it. Thank you for reminding me of it.

 

[chelseachained]

a wordsworth kinda week

another excerpt from an author i do adore

What though the radiance which was once so bright
Be now for ever taken from my sight,
Though nothing can bring back the hour
Of splendour in the grass, of glory in the flower;
We will grieve not, rather find
Strength in what remains behind;
In the primal sympathy
Which having been must ever be;
In the soothing thoughts that spring
Out of human suffering;
In the faith that looks through death,
In years that bring the philosophic mind.

 

[LadyAria]

One of my favorites of all time

Neutral Tones
by Thomas Hardy.
We stood by a pond that winter day,
And the sun was white, as though chidden of God,
And a few leaves lay on the starving sod,
--They had fallen from an ash, and were gray.

Your eyes on me were as eyes that rove
Over tedious riddles solved years ago;
And some words played between us to and fro--
On which lost the more by our love.

The smile on your mouth was the deadest thing
Alive enough to have strength to die;
And a grin of bitterness swept thereby
Like an ominous bird a-wing....

Since then, keen lessons that love deceives,
And wrings with wrong, have shaped to me
Your face, and the God-curst sun, and a tree,
And a pond edged with grayish leaves.

 

[chelseachained]

A Hardy Week

Neutral Tones
by Thomas Hardy.
We stood by a pond that winter day,
And the sun was white, as though chidden of God,
And a few leaves lay on the starving sod,
--They had fallen from an ash, and were gray.

Your eyes on me were as eyes that rove
Over tedious riddles solved years ago;
And some words played between us to and fro--
On which lost the more by our love.

The smile on your mouth was the deadest thing
Alive enough to have strength to die;
And a grin of bitterness swept thereby
Like an ominous bird a-wing....

Since then, keen lessons that love deceives,
And wrings with wrong, have shaped to me
Your face, and the God-curst sun, and a tree,
And a pond edged with grayish leaves.

You took my breath away with that one Lady Aria, I see a "Hardy" week ahead of me.
Thank you for sharing that one.

 

[ThorkelGriersen]

Emily Dickinson

LOVE

I

CONSECRATION

PROUD of my broken heart since thou didst break it,
Proud of the pain I did not feel till there,
Proud of my night since thou with moons does slake it,
Not to partake thy passion, my humility.




II

LOVE'S HUMILITY

MY worthiness is all my doubt,
His merit all my fear.
Contrasting which, my qualities
Do lowlier appear;

Lest I should insufficient prove
For his beloved need.
The chiefest apprehension
Within my loving creed.

So I, the undivine abode
Of his elect content,
Conform my soul as 't were a church
Unto her sacrement.




THE MASTER

XVI

NOT with a club the heart is broken,
Nor with a stone;
A whip, so small you could not see it,
I've known

To lash the magic creature
Till it fell,
Yet that whip's name too noble
Then to tell.

Magnanimous of bird
By boy descried,
To sing unto the stone
Of which it died.



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Formatting problems--ah well.