Reluctance to punish?

[catalina_francisco]

I agree that punishment is sometimes very necessary. I didn't mean to seem like I expect a sub to obey me just because I tell them to... recieving submission requires trust, openness, and, well, control. I just would rather not punish my sub, if it can be avoided.

'Tis OK, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but more to an approach I see on various forums from some PYL's. I just figure Domination requires more than just saying 'do xyz' and then feeling nothing more is required. If it were that simple, a 10 yo could do it. Punishment is never a happy event for us, but I would prefer that to him just walking away and disconnecting.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

'Tis OK, I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, but more to an approach I see on various forums from some PYL's. I just figure Domination requires more than just saying 'do xyz' and then feeling nothing more is required. If it were that simple, a 10 yo could do it. Punishment is never a happy event for us, but I would prefer that to him just walking away and disconnecting.

Catalina

I think you're discounting the volumes of time and energy expended in communications in the other scenario. I've heard the accusations that it's a lazy attitude before, but to me a lazy attitude is a lazy attitude and has nothing to do with what tools you use and which you reject. I've seen "you must be punished" done in a lazy and a half assed way too - neither works.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think you're discounting the volumes of time and energy expended in communications in the other scenario. I've heard the accusations that it's a lazy attitude before, but to me a lazy attitude is a lazy attitude and has nothing to do with what tools you use and which you reject. I've seen "you must be punished" done in a lazy and a half assed way too - neither works.

Perhaps you are looking at it differently to me. I wasn't thinking of it as lazy, just not what works for me. Domming and subbing both take extraordinary amounts of time, patience and energy. I don't think it would bother me if it were a casual or play based relationship, but from a fully committed 24/7 position I need to receive and give more investment in general.

Catalina

 

[JMohegan]

Now, although my instincts tell me otherwise, I am going to ask the question: does this make me undomly?

Nope.

Some D/s relationships incorporate punishment as part of the M.O. Others don't.

The difference relates to the needs of the individuals involved, not the relative domliness of the one in charge.


Red, I would like to take this opportunity to give some unsolicited advice to any new or prospective Dom/mes reading this thread. My remarks below are not directed at you specifically.


A few days ago, I cautioned against subbie one-upmanship, and I'm gonna do the same thing here. Domly one-upmanship is a very silly game, and not one that is likely to lead to success in personal relationships.

Figure out what your needs are as an individual, and find a partner who is well-matched. Remember that no matter what you do, someone will always pipe up and say: "Oh my god, I could never respect someone who does that!"

Turn off all that noise. Learn to respect yourself and your own needs, and the respect of a well-matched partner will follow.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I just want you to know that it's been your opinion on this topic that has most influenced my own - I always felt kind of weird on the subject of punishment, and then when I saw you post on this somewhere in the past it just really clicked. I've really found this a useful way to conduct my boys and it makes SUCH sense to me on a gut level.

Thank you for letting me know. I appreciate it. A lot of my opinion comes from long conversations with Shadowsdream. She has so much clarity on this and other subjects.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

If you are mad at your sub, how do you avoid taking it out on them without breaking the dynamic for however long it takes to talk it out?

I am assuming you mean if they anger me. Like with children I do not discipline out of anger. I express my anger but it does not take action until I am calm.

If a submissive makes me angry, I do nothing but tell him I am angry, and will discuss it later. Disciplining anyone out of anger is not a good thing in my own not so humble opinion.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

I think you're discounting the volumes of time and energy expended in communications in the other scenario. I've heard the accusations that it's a lazy attitude before, but to me a lazy attitude is a lazy attitude and has nothing to do with what tools you use and which you reject. I've seen "you must be punished" done in a lazy and a half assed way too - neither works.

I totally agree with you! It is not a lazy attitude but a different attitude.

Eb

 

[Ebonyfire]

The need to be punished

To those who express the "need to be punished" should consider this. I never accept submissives with this attitude. Why because I do not care about their need to be punished. I ain't their Mama or Daddy. It is not in my lexicon of domination.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but for me it is like having a sub who is sammy, I don't want one. To those who do, more power to you. Does it make me lazy? I have always said I was lazy, so you are not hurting my feelings at all. I lead the dominant life on my own terms and if your mileage varies good for you. I have said it many, many times in this forum that there are many ways to live D/s.

Choose your own version.

Eb

 

[catalina_francisco]

To those who express the "need to be punished" should consider this. I never accept submissives with this attitude. Why because I do not care about their need to be punished. I ain't their Mama or Daddy. It is not in my lexicon of domination.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but for me it is like having a sub who is sammy, I don't want one. To those who do, more power to you. Does it make me lazy? I have always said I was lazy, so you are not hurting my feelings at all. I lead the dominant life on my own terms and if your mileage varies good for you. I have said it many, many times in this forum that there are many ways to live D/s.

Choose your own version.

Eb

I always think of a sammy as someone who enjoys and takes punishment as a game and does what is necessary to get what they want, namely that punishment game. I am not a sammy, nor do I enjoy punishment, nor do I purposely do anything to receive it. Perhaps our relationship differs somewhat to some who talk of punishment in that the punishment is never something as simple as doing an assignment, nor is it for something light. It happens for what is seen as serious issues, even as far as for my having an accident because I have not been careful enough with his property and caused myself injury through my own neglect, and the punishment is severe physical punishment which moves far beyond the realm of enjoyable or forgettable to terrifyingly brutal. It is not for everyone, but for someone with serious depression issues, it works wonders which may support the theory shock treatment can be a good for treating depression, just this is without the resultant loss of IQ or memory experienced through ECT.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

To those who express the "need to be punished" should consider this. I never accept submissives with this attitude. Why because I do not care about their need to be punished. I ain't their Mama or Daddy. It is not in my lexicon of domination.

I am not saying it is a bad thing, but for me it is like having a sub who is sammy, I don't want one. To those who do, more power to you. Does it make me lazy? I have always said I was lazy, so you are not hurting my feelings at all. I lead the dominant life on my own terms and if your mileage varies good for you. I have said it many, many times in this forum that there are many ways to live D/s.

Choose your own version.

Eb

I agree. I don't like having my responses fed to me, and that's what that feels like. Even if it is a legitimate "need" I've seen the line abused and I'm not really suitable for that person.

 

[Netzach]

It is not for everyone, but for someone with serious depression issues, it works wonders which may support the theory shock treatment can be a good for treating depression, just this is without the resultant loss of IQ or memory experienced through ECT.

Catalina

No, for YOU it works wonders.

I really object to you making broader assertions that a brutal beating will be great for "depressives" as a whole. But you're right in that there are theories, and a study with more masochists than "catalina" in it would be super.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Even if it is a legitimate "need" I've seen the line abused and I'm not really suitable for that person.

Exactly my thinking. Even if it is a legitimate need, it is also a legitimate decision on my part to pass on this person because he has this need.

I look at it no different than passing on a submissive who craves corporal punishment daily. It just is not my thing, I do want to make a beating schedule for anyone, cause I do not see how that fits into a) my life and b) my style of domination.

Eb