reward vs punishment?

[FurryFury]

If you like it, it's not punishment. It's as simple as that. Your Dom is barking up the wrong tree unless y'all are playing the "punishment game."

 

[deadselly]

That's just it. There's not much he could do that would make me miserable aside from not letting me see him or something. He's not the sort to make me write lines or take things away from me. And frankly, I'm glad of that.

I like BDSM as a means of proving ownership, I suppose. I like feeling owned. I'm clingy and obsessive. I like the same of the people I adore. I'm also a masochist, so it all works out.

Beyond that, I don't really do much that merits punishment anyways, unless it's acting out to get a good flogging. ;o

 

[FurryFury]

That's just it. There's not much he could do that would make me miserable aside from not letting me see him or something. He's not the sort to make me write lines or take things away from me. And frankly, I'm glad of that.

I like BDSM as a means of proving ownership, I suppose. I like feeling owned. I'm clingy and obsessive. I like the same of the people I adore. I'm also a masochist, so it all works out.

Beyond that, I don't really do much that merits punishment anyways, unless it's acting out to get a good flogging. ;o

If you both agree you don't need punishment that's great! I don't care much for it.

I subscribe the the school of "flog me because we both enjoy it cause I never mean to be bad." If someone is constantly finding something wrong with me then we are clearly not compatible at all. Cause I'm a very good girl! So he or she must be a petty little shit yanno?

However, there are a ton of things one could find for true punishment that you wouldn't like at all.

 

[CutieMouse]

That's just it. There's not much he could do that would make me miserable aside from not letting me see him or something. He's not the sort to make me write lines or take things away from me. And frankly, I'm glad of that.

I like BDSM as a means of proving ownership, I suppose. I like feeling owned. I'm clingy and obsessive. I like the same of the people I adore. I'm also a masochist, so it all works out.

Beyond that, I don't really do much that merits punishment anyways, unless it's acting out to get a good flogging. ;o

That's the point- if you're acting out to get a flogging, it isn't punishment.

For you, punishment would involve being ignored, as it's something that would make you miserable, instead of giving you what you want (the flogging).

 

[BiBunny]

That's just it. There's not much he could do that would make me miserable aside from not letting me see him or something. He's not the sort to make me write lines or take things away from me. And frankly, I'm glad of that.

I like BDSM as a means of proving ownership, I suppose. I like feeling owned. I'm clingy and obsessive. I like the same of the people I adore. I'm also a masochist, so it all works out.

Beyond that, I don't really do much that merits punishment anyways, unless it's acting out to get a good flogging. ;o

Seriously, I'm not trying to be a bitch, but how do punishment games work? If I thought I were really being punished, I'd probably walk out the door (see my first post in this thread). If someone wants to beat me or whatever, that person can just throw me down and do it without all the extras. So how does it work? Do you know you're not REALLY being punished, or is that something you figure out along the way? Just curious.

And, CM, don't talk about being ignored! Just the thought makes me shudder. Bunny, the Attention Whore Extraordinaire.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

If you like it, it's not punishment. It's as simple as that. Your Dom is barking up the wrong tree unless y'all are playing the "punishment game."

For me / IMHO / whatever... That goes to the core of the issue. If giving / feeling pain is part of the joy in the relationship then acting out or being bad shouldn't be rewarded. To quote miss rebecca in another thread, can you spell topping from the bottom.

If you have a good relationship and want a spanking -- ask for it. If you have a relationship and know that she/he likes being spanked then you better figure out another way to discipline / punish them. Confusing punishment with pleasure just encourages more of that nasty topping from the bottom thing.

I'd rather reward good behavior and sure as hell don't want to confuse things we want to do together with correcting / disciplining / punishing bad behavior.

Hope that makes sense.
LC

 

[FurryFury]

For me / IMHO / whatever... That goes to the core of the issue. If giving / feeling pain is part of the joy in the relationship then acting out or being bad shouldn't be rewarded. To quote miss rebecca in another thread, can you spell topping from the bottom.

If you have a good relationship and want a spanking -- ask for it. If you have a relationship and know that she/he likes being spanked then you better figure out another way to discipline / punish them. Confusing punishment with pleasure just encourages more of that nasty topping from the bottom thing.

I'd rather reward good behavior and sure as hell don't want to confuse things we want to do together with correcting / disciplining / punishing bad behavior.

Hope that makes sense.
LC

It does to me.

I don't do punishment games.

From what I've seen here and elsewhere it works like this:

Dom: "You've been bad and should be punished."

sub: "Oh nos anything but that." *giggle*

*"punishment" ensues, both get off on it*

or like this:

sub: "I've been sooo bad, I should be punished."

Dom: "Oh yeah?" *perk*

*"punishment" ensues, both get off on it*

Nothing wrong with both parties being into something. Good on them. It's simply not punishment in my book. And I'll say it again, I'm not at all fond of punishment.

 

[RJMasters]

See I don't even like playing the "ignore" card as a form of punishment.

When things go sideways which is very rare indeed, as It takes a lot to push my buttons, but when pushed, its not a matter of me saying, ok fine and punishing by ignoring, its more like, you know I really just don't want you around me right now, you fucked up I don't want to look at you, or even hear anything you have to say. When I calm down we can work things out and we will will work this out, but until then endure the consequences and just deal with it.

I can count on one hand the times that has happen and still have enough left over to count to three (a bit exageraded but you get the idea).

I mean there is relationship stuff and then there are day in and day out duties and task which are different but are still part and pacel of the whole sha-bang. I don't see punishment in conjunction with the relationship type stuff because I see it as two adults. perhaps there can exist some incentive of punishmen and rewards in regards to duties and tasks and such, like say keeping to an exercise program, and should one fail, there will be a punishmen for that. See that kind of thing I can understand and go with because those things there are like preagreed to that I am going to hold your toes to the fire sort of thing. But am I going to hold your toes to the fire at the relationship level? Not likely. If you aren't there because that is what you desire, then what the hell am I or you thinking to begin with? Punishment at the relationship level is never about punishing just one person. If you fuck up at that level, then we both suffer. If I fuck up at that level then we both suffer.

But if you tell me your going to walk a mile three times a week and you don't, don't be surprised if next week your walking two miles three times a week with me following you with stick every step of the way. (lol again a bit of an exageraion, and kind of a hot one at that....bu you get the point). As a reward though for sticking to your commitment, perhaps a nice sexy dress or lingerie with a note saying how proud I am to see you sticking to your goals and how much I would love to see you in this.

So i can see where rewards and punishment can fit and work, I just do not see it attached to the relationship stuff, because emotional blackmail, while hawt in fantasy or in a scene, it is rarely a great thing for basing or keeping a relationship strong. Just my thoughts.

 

[ecstaticsub]

(forgive me ahead of time if I misuse the word punishment but I'm not a psych major--actually I only showed up to take the mid-term and final.. )

I have only really been punished once. I have been flogged and caned and spanked that was not punishment just part of business as usual but...once I made a big mistake and he beat me as punishment. To be honest it hurt less than a caning but it was the emotions around it that made it a "punishment". The fact that I made him so angry was the worse of it. It was very effective.

 

[CutieMouse]

ehh... RJ when I think of "ignore", it's on the same level as I use as a parenting tool, because mothering is about as "Dom" as I get. LOL

(not that I think submissive people are children/childish/whatever...)

Act up and piss me off- I'll tell you I'm pissed, and we both need space to think- I got to my thinking spot, they go to their thinking spot, and we ignore each other until we can talk reasonably (usually 15 minutes).

Whine that you want XYZ thing/activity/whatever- I'll say no, point out I'd have considered saying yes if the request had been made in a polite and rational manner, and the subject gets dropped until *I* decide to pick it up again.

That's what I mean by ignoring...

 

[RJMasters]

ehh... RJ when I think of "ignore", it's on the same level as I use as a parenting tool, because mothering is about as "Dom" as I get. LOL

(not that I think submissive people are children/childish/whatever...)

Act up and piss me off- I'll tell you I'm pissed, and we both need space to think- I got to my thinking spot, they go to their thinking spot, and we ignore each other until we can talk reasonably (usually 15 minutes).

Whine that you want XYZ thing/activity/whatever- I'll say no, point out I'd have considered saying yes if the request had been made in a polite and rational manner, and the subject gets dropped until *I* decide to pick it up again.

That's what I mean by ignoring...

I think my point is, that ignoring is not somehting I have to make into some kind of mental or emotional blackmail...it just happens naturally, because like you said, your pissed off at the time and you need some space.

I am sure that you do not consider taking a time out as it were as emotional blackmail with your kids, its just something you do naturally.

Maybe it is from their perspective a form of punishment or precieved as such, but I don't think I make the intellectual connect that I am going to punish you by ignoring you step. For me it is just a matter of consequence that I am angry. I think that kinda of sqaures with what you said here.

In pursuant of clarification and not because of anything anyone else has said or posted:

I think there is a very subtle difference which I am pointing out and it has to do with intent. When some people mention ignoring in the context of punishment, I often get the feeling that they are talking about some kind of tool they have in thier D/s belt that they use as a form of punishment. I'm sorry but I can't go there. Ignoring may come about as a natural course of consequence, but its because I am angry, not because I am not going to sit there and plot with intention how I can make someone suffer by ignoring them.

What that has to do with the price of tea in China I am not sure but to me its an important distinction.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

RJ, I think you've made some excellent points! That is exactly the way things work between Daddy and I. It is no "game" of punishment, it is real just as you described it anger on His part when I mess up. It isn't pretty, and He does walk away sometimes to cool off before we can talk things out. Those are the hardest times for me. I HATE to disappoint Him, however, being human it happens from time to time.

Rewards for us come in the form of a simple "Thank you" to a surprise gift from time to time. I never know what a reward will be for going that extra step to please Him, but I don't do what I do to get things. I do it because it feels right.

That's the way it is in my relationship with Daddy and it works for us.

 

[CutieMouse]

RJ, I think I still file it (ignoring in the manner I described) under the "tools" section of my mind, because it's a natural consequences thing, and I'm really big on natural consequences. (The world's coolest tool in the "lazy" parent's handbook... )

 

[RJMasters]

RJ, I think you've made some excellent points! That is exactly the way things work between Daddy and I. It is no "game" of punishment, it is real just as you described it anger on His part when I mess up. It isn't pretty, and He does walk away sometimes to cool off before we can talk things out. Those are the hardest times for me. I HATE to disappoint Him, however, being human it happens from time to time.

Rewards for us come in the form of a simple "Thank you" to a surprise gift from time to time. I never know what a reward will be for going that extra step to please Him, but I don't do what I do to get things. I do it because it feels right.

That's the way it is in my relationship with Daddy and it works for us.

Exactly.

 

[RJMasters]

RJ, I think I still file it (ignoring in the manner I described) under the "tools" section of my mind, because it's a natural consequences thing, and I'm really big on natural consequences. (The world's coolest tool in the "lazy" parent's handbook... )

Damn it! Its tomato, not tomato. And no amount of your feminine wiles are gonna change it.

 

[CutieMouse]

Damn it! Its tomato, not tomato. And no amount of your feminine wiles are gonna change it.

...

 

[S-Des]

Simply put, there is no right or wrong. You have to be patient enough to learn how your partner likes it and then do it that way. And they should be able to do the same for you.

It's a simple matter of preference, and not of correct vs. incorrect.

Besides that, everyone is going to have a different defenition of "reward" and "punishment" and that further complicates matters. To some, "punishment" might be seen as a "reward," therefore making a "reward" a "punishment."

Simply put, it's all about individual taste. I myself tend to respond more to positive reenforcement, but then, I've dated girls who prefered the exact opposite of that.

Exactly. It would be like saying, "If you fuck a woman in this position for 10 minutes, she'll multiple orgasm" just because your last girlfriend did. Every relationship is different and to approach any of them the same would be a mistake. My SO is my first D/S relationship, so before we ever got together I did internet research on the topic. I read a great article about punishment/reward and how it can be applied to the Sub. When we got together, I used restraints and various spanking, along with some discussion of reasons she needed to be "punished" (because I had learned that was part of what she enjoyed). When she did things that pleased me, I gave her small rewards (i.e. when she begged properly, I'd fuck her until she orgasmed, then resume her punishment).

She had one previous D/s relationship, and it was all about punishment, with pretty much no reward (she derived satisfaction from proving herself to him). After our first couple of visits, she told me she'd never go back to that kind of relationship because it was one-dimensional compared to ours. Then again, that's her. I wouldn't presume to say it would be that way for the next person. To me, the key is really understanding your partner, so you can properly push her buttons. I don't punish her because I'm angry or because she really disappointed me, I do it because like foreplay, I know it plays into what turns her on. Mixing what she wants with new things that I believe she'll enjoy (even if she doesn't know it yet) is a big part of what makes it fun.

BTW, the D/s side of our relationship is mostly sexual. I haven't participated in one that extends into day to day life, so don't know how that varies. I'm finding the replies here very interesting.

 

[serijules]

I'm the oddball out as usual. Ma'am will punish me at times and reward me at others, or something absolutely nothing at all as doing what she expects of me is not something I should be rewarded for.

Punishment works for us, doesn't make me a child or immature, doesn't mean my intelligence and independence is being ridiculed, and doesn't mean our relationship is a game or doomed for failure or that I am manipulative.

Anyhow...

I love when she says "good girl" or "thank you baby" or any number of subtle but meaningful ways of showing her appreciation. Like I said, being "rewarded" for things I am expected to do or ways I am expected to act in my slavery isn't something she is inclined to do, so the verbal appreciatives are nice and always make me feel good.

Being allowed to sleep her in bed, to pleasure her, to serve her...are all positives for me. They are not things I can expect, so I consider them rewards every single time they are allowed and given. Oftentime punishment IS the removal of those privileges making them all that much more rewarding and treasured.

 

[FurryFury]

That sort of "ignore" y'all are talking about comes to me out of extreme anger and disappointment in someone. It doesn't happen often but it happens now and then. To my way of thinking it is a health tool to at those times take a step back and cool off rather than push things but both parties have to agree to do this. Otherwise, things can get really bad.

Natural consequences are important. Without experiencing them we will have a whole generation of people who are brats IMO.

Punishment can work on a serious level IMO. It can bring a needed edge that is a spice for both parties.

I don't need to separate what arena this fits in or state that I'm NOT a child. The principals are the same really it's the goals and consent that are different.

Regardless whatever works for the parties involved, it's all good.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

It does to me.

I don't do punishment games.

From what I've seen here and elsewhere it works like this:

Dom: "You've been bad and should be punished."

sub: "Oh nos anything but that." *giggle*

*"punishment" ensues, both get off on it*

or like this:

sub: "I've been sooo bad, I should be punished."

Dom: "Oh yeah?" *perk*

*"punishment" ensues, both get off on it*

Nothing wrong with both parties being into something. Good on them. It's simply not punishment in my book. And I'll say it again, I'm not at all fond of punishment.

It is their boat and they can float it any way / where they want -- I just won't be joining them. I think serijules post says it very well too.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I'm the oddball out as usual. Ma'am will punish me at times and reward me at others, or something absolutely nothing at all as doing what she expects of me is not something I should be rewarded for.

Punishment works for us, doesn't make me a child or immature, doesn't mean my intelligence and independence is being ridiculed, and doesn't mean our relationship is a game or doomed for failure or that I am manipulative.

Anyhow...

I love when she says "good girl" or "thank you baby" or any number of subtle but meaningful ways of showing her appreciation. Like I said, being "rewarded" for things I am expected to do or ways I am expected to act in my slavery isn't something she is inclined to do, so the verbal appreciatives are nice and always make me feel good.

Being allowed to sleep her in bed, to pleasure her, to serve her...are all positives for me. They are not things I can expect, so I consider them rewards every single time they are allowed and given. Oftentime punishment IS the removal of those privileges making them all that much more rewarding and treasured.

Honestly, doll, I don't see where you think you're the odd-man out. That would be me.

I think most people who've posted before you and those after, agree with you completely.

It's your relationship. How it works for you (or me) is your business. ;-)

 

[serijules]

Honestly, doll, I don't see where you think you're the odd-man out. That would be me.

I think most people who've posted before you and those after, agree with you completely.

It's your relationship. How it works for you (or me) is your business. ;-)

Oddball out meaning I don't have negative opinions or experiences with punishment and feel it has a perfectly valid and useful place in a relationship that has nothing to do with immaturity or other degrading things. I'm usually the oddball out or at least a big minority in that view and while I didn't read every reply but most I read seemed to be along that thread.

Even if it IS a game for those involved, as Fury said, it it works for them, it works for them and that's always a good thing in my book.

 

[myinnerslut]

Oddball out meaning I don't have negative opinions or experiences with punishment and feel it has a perfectly valid and useful place in a relationship that has nothing to do with immaturity or other degrading things.

i agree with you completly one hundred percent. you are just more eloquent then i am.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Oddball out meaning I don't have negative opinions or experiences with punishment and feel it has a perfectly valid and useful place in a relationship that has nothing to do with immaturity or other degrading things. I'm usually the oddball out or at least a big minority in that view and while I didn't read every reply but most I read seemed to be along that thread.

Even if it IS a game for those involved, as Fury said, it it works for them, it works for them and that's always a good thing in my book.

My sincere apologies for having offended you again, seri.

I think you will find that most people here agree with your post or some version of it. No one so far, as agreed with how WE practice ours.

Maybe you should keep reading. LOL I see another who supports you. And as I said before, how you or anyone else runs there lives in their business. I have my way and apparently it's not the "right" opinion to voice here. ;-)

 

[serijules]

My sincere apologies for having offended you again, seri.

I think you will find that most people here agree with your post or some version of it. No one so far, as agreed with how WE practice ours.

Maybe you should keep reading. LOL I see another who supports you. And as I said before, how you or anyone else runs there lives in their business. I have my way and apparently it's not the "right" opinion to voice here. ;-)

*blinks* you didn't offend me hon, I was just clarifying what I meant by "oddball out". No offense taken at all!

I had a migraine all day so I can only read in short spurts today. Guess I should prolly refrain from commenting when I can't really read everything, heh.

Err, btw, I have short term memory problems...if you felt you offended me in the past, I've long since forgotten entirely about it LOL