Seeking a woman's opinion (for a subway harassment scene)

[TheLobster]

I'd be deeply remiss if I didn't throw this out here

At least she likes fish, not pineapple pizza.

 

[stickygirl]

An exercise in a Fermi estimation says that the average person crosses paths with a murderer 36 times during their lifetime.

It costs nothing to be polite and walk away, calmly and confidently.

The same guy? You'd think we'd report him for harassment first

 

[PennyThompson]

The same guy? You'd think we'd report him for harassment first

Murders Georg is a statistical outlier and should not have been counted

 

[stickygirl]

Is this plausible?

It depends on context of course. Is this the first time we meet Jenny or have already established she's sass and has already proved herself to be Black Widow and able to take care of herself? So sure, if the rest of the story is intended to be tongue-in-cheek then it reads fine.
But, as plenty others are at pains to point out - no, neither plausible nor advisable.

Just because someone is wearing headphones doesn't mean they're in use. Never seen a woman talking to a cell phone at a bus stop?

 

[gunhilltrain]

I'd just like to say I'm disappointed that @gunhilltrain let this information slide.

Those things have "breaks?" There was an auto repair shop near me that fixed "breaks." There is also a deli that advertises "Phyllis Cheese Steaks." I've never tried to order one, or asked who Phyllis was.

 

[gunhilltrain]

An exercise in a Fermi estimation says that the average person crosses paths with a murderer 36 times during their lifetime.

It costs nothing to be polite and walk away, calmly and confidently.

Surely it's more than that in The Bronx.

 

[AwkwardMD]

At least she likes fish, not pineapple pizza.

The song is called Red Flags, not War Crimes

 

[Bramblethorn]

Strictly from a writing perspective, if this interaction is mainly intended to read as funny and set up that tone for the character/story, then yes I think it works. Maybe tighten up the word count a bit.

But if it's about plausibility of the interaction in the real world I think some very good points have been made here to support that in maybe 95 cases out of 100 the reaction would be more terse, limiting communication and generally trying to say as little as possible to shut the percieved creep down and stop escalation.

I agree that it's a bit of an unusual reaction, taken as an isolated incident.

What I could believe more easily is if this is framed as the final straw after a day of being pestered by dudes. She's been doing the sensible minimise-response thing every time until now, but she's run out of patience so she snaps and pushes back even though it's probably not a good idea.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Rather than AHing on each other, let's take this from a different angle.

Suppose it's all a set up somehow. She's in on it and has agreed, maybe even planned it. Thing is, she doesn't know exactly who it will be. She doesn't know exactly what steps the person will take, or how it will begin. At first she's a bit tense, but then .... the keyword is gently whispered. She can relax, she knows she's safe and free to play along, to role play resistance, but to gradually give in.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I agree that it's a bit of an unusual reaction, taken as an isolated incident.

What I could believe more easily is if this is framed as the final straw after a day of being pestered by dudes. She's been doing the sensible minimise-response thing every time until now, but she's run out of patience so she snaps and pushes back even though it's probably not a good idea.

I agree. 99 times she (I, back when I was young and magnetically attracted subway creeps on the regular) would just put her headphones back on and turn aside, maybe say 'Leave me alone'. But sometimes you just need to tell someone to fuck off, or give them verbal that amounts to the same thing.

One point - OP mentioned somewhere that the guy was saying Konichiwa because she looked Asian. Which is a thing idiots do. But if he thought she was Japanese, he wouldn't then need to say 'It's hello in Japanese', because he'd expect her to know. He might say "I just wanted to be nice and say hello in your language" or "that's how you say hello, isn't it?"

In which case, her replying "I'm not Japanese" (even if she is or her ethnicity is) and turning back to her book would be a plausible response.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I agree that it's a bit of an unusual reaction, taken as an isolated incident.

What I could believe more easily is if this is framed as the final straw after a day of being pestered by dudes. She's been doing the sensible minimise-response thing every time until now, but she's run out of patience so she snaps and pushes back even though it's probably not a good idea.

Adding: it could make sense if she's a more confrontational kind of person as @joy_of_cooking has clarified, and if her characterisation elsewhere in the story fits in with that.

 

[stickygirl]

In which case, her replying "I'm not Japanese" (even if she is or her ethnicity is) and turning back to her book would be a plausible response.

I know one or two "Asian" people who only speak English, maybe French? Making assumptions about complete strangers is never going to end well

Also there's this warning

 

[onehitwanda]

I know one or two "Asian" people who only speak English, maybe French? Making assumptions about complete strangers is never going to end well

Also there's this warning

My ribs hurt and I am laughing so much my cats are trying to dial 999

 

[AwkwardlySet]

There have been some interesting takes here. What I've noticed though, is that most people focused on the girl and the plausability of the scene from her standpoint.

My issue with the scene isn't about her. I've no problem imagining a sufficiently annoyed/tired girl going for this funny angle to repel unwanted attention.
But it's the guy's reaction to it that stretches disbelief for me. There's no way he bought her way too extreme story. In my view, he should have reacted in one of the following ways:

1. He sees it as a joke and goes for a humor angle. This would be the reaction of a non-creepy guy who just wanted to chat or maybe hit on a pretty girl.

2. He sees an oportunity and plays along saying he would like to join her in those practices, etc. A likely creepy response

3. He sees it as a harsh rebuke and gets offended. He lets her know that and walks away. This again would be a reaction of a non-creep.

But the reaction from the scene, where he buys the story and just wants to get away from the freaky girl is... yeah.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

There have been some interesting takes here. What I've noticed though, is that most people focused on the girl and the plausability of the scene from her standpoint.

My issue with the scene isn't about her. I've no problem imagining a sufficiently annoyed/tired girl going for this funny angle to repel unwanted attention.
But it's the guy's reaction to it that stretches disbelief for me. There's no way he bought her way too extreme story. In my view, he should have reacted in one of the following ways:

1. He sees it as a joke and goes for a humor angle. This would be the reaction of a non-creepy guy who just wanted to chat or maybe hit on a pretty girl.

2. He sees an oportunity and plays along saying he would like to join her in those practices, etc. A likely creepy response

3. He sees it as a harsh rebuke and gets offended. He lets her know that and walks away. This again would be a reaction of a non-creep.

But the reaction from the scene, where he buys the story and just wants to get away from the freaky girl is... yeah.

I don't know. You assume he actually listens to much of what she is saying, which given he's already totally ignored her body language (his reaction to headphones and turning away is to wave in her face - seriously, unless there's a good reason like she's dropped her wallet, that is totally over the line and I struggle to believe the people upthread who claim 'he might not be a creep'), isn't a given.

I think there's cultural differences where some of us would regard anyone 'listening to their pastor' on a recording, as a religious nutcase, and would start edging away immediately. Some posters seem to imply that's not an unusual thing where they are, so I guess the woman would need to play up the glazed-over look and really make clear that she's going for 'I am way more scarily batshit than you are, matey'. A voice like Dracula's when talking about period blood would be called for, to really sell it.

It's a noisy subway - he may not catch all the words even if he's trying to listen, so she needs to make her feigned madness clear.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

You assume he actually listens to much of what she is saying,

Why would I assume anything else? He aggressively wanted her attention, and when she's actually talking to him, he just doesn't listen?

It's a noisy subway - he may not catch all the words even if he's trying to listen, so she needs to make her feigned madness clear.

There are no indications that they can't hear each other properly. But anyway, he doesn't catch all the words, but still straight out believes she's a nutcase?

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Why would I assume anything else? He aggressively wanted her attention, and when she's actually talking to him, he just doesn't listen?

It's not unusual for a man to aggressively demand a woman's attention so she can listen to him...

There are no indications that they can't hear each other properly. But anyway, he doesn't catch all the words, but still straight out believes she's a nutcase?

There were mentions of brakes/wheels screeching. But fair point, she'd have to milk the overacting. Especially if "Can I tell you about Jesus?" isn't an automatic 'run away' signal in the relevant city.

 

[JGittes]

I'm late to the discussion and haven't read every comment thoroughly, so I may have missed if this issue was addressed.

I know KQ, Bramble, and Gunhill have ridden 'the subway,' but it's unclear whether anyone else has. I've ridden subways, undergrounds, metros, and tubes extensively in Beijing, Oslo, Copenhagen, Munich, Paris, London, New York, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. There is one universally understood bit of etiquette I've encountered: approaching someone you don't know is considered a form of harassment. There are exceptions, such as when a pregnant woman needs your seat or when you return a dropped item. It isn't done. The London Underground has explicit posters and advert campaigns about it—the person who does it self-identifies as a creep or worse.

It's certainly possible to create a fantasy world where such encounters are safe, but it would take some considered effort to make it plausible. Extreme examples include The Truman Show or The Good Place, but it would be possible to create a version of the real world that is a much kinder place, where such transgressions aren't part of the zeitgeist. The overall issue, though, is why go to such lengths when there's a coffee shop five steps beyond the Underground exit, where such encounters can easily be delightful in the real world as well as one's story.

Re-reading the OP, I realise we have little information about the authorial intention that this scene brings to the table. Is Konichiwa man ever mentioned again? In that case, this seems to build the character of the FMC (assuming?), and there would be a plethora of problems with a woman slighting a man in this fashion, especially since he has already shown himself to be a creep.

 

[Djmac1031]

Without knowing any other intent for the story, I thought it was humorous and engaging writing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Why would I assume anything else? He aggressively wanted her attention, and when she's actually talking to him, he just doesn't listen?

Extremely credible. There are plenty of people out there who want to have others' attention without being obliged to reciprocate.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm late to the discussion and haven't read every comment thoroughly, so I may have missed if this issue was addressed.

I know KQ, Bramble, and Gunhill have ridden 'the subway,' but it's unclear whether anyone else has. I've ridden subways, undergrounds, metros, and tubes extensively in Beijing, Oslo, Copenhagen, Munich, Paris, London, New York, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angeles. There is one universally understood bit of etiquette I've encountered: approaching someone you don't know is considered a form of harassment. There are exceptions, such as when a pregnant woman needs your seat or when you return a dropped item. It isn't done. The London Underground has explicit posters and advert campaigns about it—the person who does it self-identifies as a creep or worse.

Yep. It's similar to elevator etiquette, or other situations where you're packed in closer than would normally be allowed for personal space. The only time I can recall starting a conversation with a stranger on PT was tanking somebody who was harassing others.

I've occasionally had elderly folk who were just chatty, and I wouldn't call that creepy, but still out of the ordinary.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Yep. It's similar to elevator etiquette, or other situations where you're packed in closer than would normally be allowed for personal space. The only time I can recall starting a conversation with a stranger on PT was tanking somebody who was harassing others.

I've occasionally had elderly folk who were just chatty, and I wouldn't call that creepy, but still out of the ordinary.

It's quite normal in my part of the world to exchange pleasantries on an elevator.

 

[SomaSlave]

It's quite normal in my part of the world to exchange pleasantries on an elevator.

That sound like it could be the basis for a story, where pleasantries by one person are misconstrued by the other person, resulting in unintended flirting, an impromptu lunch invitation and the requisite sparks flying as they discuss their cultural differences.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

There is one universally understood bit of etiquette I've encountered: approaching someone you don't know is considered a form of harassment. There are exceptions, such as when a pregnant woman needs your seat or when you return a dropped item. It isn't done.

If you live in such a place, you should move to a civilized place where saying 'Hello' is not considered threatening.

Where I live, we often wave at the driver in an oncoming car whether we know them or not.

 

[old_prof]

When I moved from the small town I went to college in (and worked in for a few years after college) to an inner suburb of Boston, I had a major culture shock. I would say hello to people walking down the street. In the town I had lived, they would say hello back and it was just a nice pleasantry. In Boston, the typical reaction (if there was one) was to cross the street to get away from me.

After almost twenty years in major cities, we have intentionally lived in friendlier places for the last 25. I understand that people are overwhelmed by the humanity around them in major cities. But I want to be around people that want to be around people, even if I lose some cultural opportunities.