'Selling' slaves... WTF?

[StrayKat]

Wasn't the notion that "consent" defines the boundaries?

I know several people I could convince to let me consensually slit their throats. I know several more I could convince to do that on their own.
Does that mean I have free hands to send them to death just because its consensual?
Who has the power has the big responsibility of how they use that power. I know where are limits on mine. Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[Etoile]

i am a slave. when i agreed to be a slave, that was the last decision i had a right to make. i am property. i can be sold. that's just how things are. and im not alone in that state.

Yes and no. Maybe YOU think you can be sold, but the law looks down on selling people. Either your former or new master could raise a stink if they weren't happy with the transaction. Of course the Better Business Bureau doesn't cover it, so they call law enforcement.

Let's not pretend that our relationships apply in reality, here.

 

[Primalex]

I know several people I could convince to let me consensually slit their throats. I know several more I could convince to do that on their own.
Does that mean I have free hands to send them to death just because its consensual?

Why not?

The government kills criminals and labels it justice.
Doctors kills patients and label it euthanasia.
Women kill babies and label it pro-choice.
Soldiers kill civilians and label it collateral damage.

...

And you think the limit of the society should be "killing with consent"?

 

[StrayKat]

Why not?

The government kills criminals and labels it justice.
Doctors kills patients and label it euthanasia.
Women kill babies and label it pro-choice.
Soldiers kill civilians and label it collateral damage.

...

And you think the limit of the society should be "killing with consent"?

No. I mentioned society for those that have no inner laws to restrict them.

Me, I dont give a damn about governments or doctors, I have my morals and principles and I dont walk all over them just because something makes me wet.

 

[Primalex]

No. I mentioned society for those that have no inner laws to restrict them.

Me, I dont give a damn about governments or doctors, I have my morals and principles and I dont walk all over them just because something makes me wet.

Ha, this just means you didn't get wet enough.

 

[StrayKat]

Ha, this just means you didn't get wet enough.

I dont know, maybe if I was you I would probably think differently

 

[Primalex]

I dont know, maybe if I was you I would probably think differently

If you would be me, you couldn't think differently.

 

[StrayKat]

If you would be me, you couldn't think differently.

Yeah I guess, I would be thinking with my other head then. Glad I am me

 

[Ravenwind]

Honestly, the whole thing is nuts. I mean, play and scenes and whatnot aside, actually selling a slave is tantamount to prostitution...if I were a Domme, I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole. I'd rather have a slave that I trained, who knows exactly what I want, and everything they do, is done with genuine enthusiasm, instead of someone trained on someone else's likes and dislikes, and is only pretending to be enthusiastic (or worse, isn't trying to hide their discontent at all).

As a slave, I know I couldn't be happy never having a moment of stability, always wondering when I could return home... or if I'd ever return home... or never knowing what "home" is. And then the slaves who were once normal people, but were unwillingly broken into accepting their slavery... that there is just wrong, no matter who you are. IMHO, a slave should willfully relinquish their individuality, rights, and so on... not have them stolen from them.

 

[subish2009]

As a game? A little hard-core for me, though I definitely see the appeal.

For real? Yeah, I have all kinds of moral reservations about this, for all the reasons that have already been stated.

 

[yourmissl]

Omg this sounds like a slave mill, a business that consists of training and selling young human slave just like one would train and sell young dogs or horses. If they are for real, it defiantly has to be illegal. I would have to call a few of those people and ask what the going price is for a full time slave nowadays.

It would be interesting if you called them Simon just to find out what the deal is, how they go about it...what all is entailed. Is there a contract? A lifetime warranty perhaps? A 90 day satisfaction guaranteed or- your- money- back clause? Ask them what happens if you pay for her and are not happy with her, can you return her for a replacement, will they give you your $$ back?

Do you get a free trial offer? You get to take her for a month, keep her, try her out first before you decide? Is there a payment plan, so down and so much a month and if so, what do they charge for interest?

My first reaction mirrored this pretty closely, but on second thought, Simon, I wouldn't touch any of this stuff with a thirty-foot pole. You've discussed in other threads the legal ramifications of pictures in Scotland these days... God forbid that in an effort to discover if any sort of illegal coercion was taking place you found yourself/your own life under the microscope of the authorities and/or your community. Maybe you could anonymously send it to someone to check into... human trafficking is world-wide and at times shockingly brazen.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Omg this sounds like a slave mill, a business that consists of training and selling young human slave just like one would train and sell young dogs or horses. If they are for real, it defiantly has to be illegal. I would have to call a few of those people and ask what the going price is for a full time slave nowadays.

It would be interesting if you called them Simon just to find out what the deal is, how they go about it...what all is entailed. Is there a contract? A lifetime warranty perhaps? A 90 day satisfaction guaranteed or- your- money- back clause? Ask them what happens if you pay for her and are not happy with her, can you return her for a replacement, will they give you your $$ back?

It probably would, Adak, but I confess I'm squeamish. I think this is one of those occasions where you don't want to roll the stone over because you really don't want to know what's under it. It could just be play - but the pattern of it smells kind of nasty.

If it's just a scam to take your money and run, then that would almost be a relief - it's a lot less nasty than some of the things I'm imagining here.

I would have to say, that I don't agree with this at all, but I think some of you are kinda missing the point of what those posts are saying. These subs are wanting to be sold or consenting to it. How is it that much different then a Master lending his sub out to another Dom for the night? Assuming the Dom is a good Dom, They would be making sure their sub was alright with this happening. I don't agree with it, but many people don't agree with the D/s lifestyle on a whole, and see it as disturbing.

What does 'want' or 'consent' mean? People - particularly vulnerable young people - can be persuaded/manipulated/trained/brain-washed (choose your word) into believing they want, or consent to, all sorts of things. Patty Hurst was carrying an apparently loaded carbine when she and her abductors held up the Hibernia Bank in 1974. She could have turned her gun on her abductors and escaped. She did not do so. Does this prove she freely took part in the robbery?

Consent is a nice word, but it's one of those words where the more you look at it, the less sure you are of its meaning.

i am a slave. when i agreed to be a slave, that was the last decision i had a right to make. i am property. i can be sold. that's just how things are. and im not alone in that state.

Well, you can be provided you consent to be, and it sounds like you choose to be in a state where you can't believe that you wouldn't consent. But in the real world you should be able to refuse to consent, and I hope there are at least a few people who would pay attention if you suddenly disappeared.

As a game? A little hard-core for me, though I definitely see the appeal.

For real? Yeah, I have all kinds of moral reservations about this, for all the reasons that have already been stated.

As a game, I can see the appeal, and I don't wish to interfere with other people's consenting games. But I am a little troubled by what 'consent' means here.

 

[Ravenwind]

As a game, I can see the appeal, and I don't wish to interfere with other people's consenting games. But I am a little troubled by what 'consent' means here.

*feels a sense of deja vu* Wasn't there a thread 'bout this a while back?

 

[SimonBrooke]

My first reaction mirrored this pretty closely, but on second thought, Simon, I wouldn't touch any of this stuff with a thirty-foot pole. You've discussed in other threads the legal ramifications of pictures in Scotland these days... God forbid that in an effort to discover if any sort of illegal coercion was taking place you found yourself/your own life under the microscope of the authorities and/or your community. Maybe you could anonymously send it to someone to check into... human trafficking is world-wide and at times shockingly brazen.

Exactly, thank you. I'm pretty much 'out', in that I post here and other places under my own name. But I don't really want an investigation into my life and sexual behaviour. I wouldn't find that a bit comfortable.

 

[BiBunny]

I can't imagine that people who were involved in some huge black market slave-selling scheme would be so moronic as to post about it on the Internet. But then maybe I expect too much masterminding, I dunno.

 

[00Syd]

I can't imagine that people who were involved in some huge black market slave-selling scheme would be so moronic as to post about it on the Internet. But then maybe I expect too much masterminding, I dunno.

Yeah... I'm honestly not taking any of the examples posted in the OP very seriously. I feel like any one involved in any "real" (yes, I used the word 'real' but that doesn't mean we need to have a discussion about it you guys. Seriously) slavery would take some care to be a little more secret.

There is a big difference between "M/s relationship slavery" and "kidnapped ladies from a third world country sold to and pimped out by criminal slave-owners," and you can't really equate the two.

 

[yourmissl]

Yeah... I'm honestly not taking any of the examples posted in the OP very seriously. I feel like any one involved in any "real" (yes, I used the word 'real' but that doesn't mean we need to have a discussion about it you guys. Seriously) slavery would take some care to be a little more secret.

There is a big difference between "M/s relationship slavery" and "kidnapped ladies from a third world country sold to and pimped out by criminal slave-owners," and you can't really equate the two.

You'd think that was true, but in reality, (and contrary to books/tv/movies that feature one malevolent genius after another), criminals can be amazingly inept, perhaps because they are also so easily replaced.

Evil = Stupid much more often than not.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

I doubt those websites would allow people to use their sites for illegal human trafficking.

 

[Netzach]

So how far is too far for you?
Yes, we all have *some* ideas about what is right or wrong, but dont you think there have to be some general idea supported by laws to prevent people to go "too far"?

Selling someone can be just a part of kinky play where all parties involved are aware its just a game they enjoy.
On the other hand it may mean taking advantage of those incapable to decide for themselves for whatever reason.
In the second case I see community restrictions as the only way to protect the victims.

Killing people and eating them is too far.

I don't think it has to be "just a game" for people to enjoy it.

If the person being sold is all "I'm over this" it's too far. As Etoile pointed out, reality steps in to intervene on their behalf, too.

If they're perfectly content to BE sold, it's not.

H would have exactly the same reaction as Cutebrat if I were to call him up and tell him I found a bidder on Ebay. It's his life to run ruin and enjoy or not.

 

[StrayKat]

Killing people and eating them is too far.

I don't think it has to be "just a game" for people to enjoy it.

If the person being sold is all "I'm over this" it's too far. As Etoile pointed out, reality steps in to intervene on their behalf, too.

If they're perfectly content to BE sold, it's not.

H would have exactly the same reaction as Cutebrat if I were to call him up and tell him I found a bidder on Ebay. It's his life to run ruin and enjoy or not.

And what if they are perfectly content to be sold because they are incapable to reason, manipulated or raised that way? Because they dont know better or because they are mentally not capable to understand the consequences?

I see too much space for for some really bad abuse here.

 

[yourmissl]

I doubt those websites would allow people to use their sites for illegal human trafficking.

Went back to read the original post - you are probably right, but if there is a question about their knowledge it might be a good way to ease concerns - report to mods, etc.

That said, even if those ads were 'legit' they could easily be used to 'sus' out buyers for the real thing.

(I heard that - what makes you think I'm paranoid? )

 

[Netzach]

And what if they are perfectly content to be sold because they are incapable to reason, manipulated or raised that way? Because they dont know better or because they are mentally not capable to understand the consequences?

I see too much space for for some really bad abuse here.

Then they're not doing SM. And that space for really bad abuse isn't dependent on an SM context, it's hiding in plain sight all over.

 

[Etoile]

Slaves exist, of course. People are bought and sold every day. It's highly illegal, not at all romantic. Usually referred to as "human trafficking." Pretending that doms can sell subs is demeaning to the people who are living in slavery right this minute.

 

[YourCaptor]

Slaves exist, of course. People are bought and sold every day. It's highly illegal, not at all romantic. Usually referred to as "human trafficking." Pretending that doms can sell subs is demeaning to the people who are living in slavery right this minute.

This is how I first felt about the term “slave”. I didn’t want it cause of the history and modern implications.

But you know, we are called perverts for a reason.

 

[Aquila1]

Slaves exist, of course. People are bought and sold every day. It's highly illegal, not at all romantic. Usually referred to as "human trafficking." Pretending that doms can sell subs is demeaning to the people who are living in slavery right this minute.

Nail. Head. Hit BAM.