'Selling' slaves... WTF?

[ownedsubgal]

the reality is that there is indeed the trading, renting, giving away, and selling of slaves within the M/s lifestyle. it does not make it some elaborate game simply because it is not supported by the law of the land. my Master has the right to sell me if he wishes (tho i sure as heck hope he never wishes)...it is something that would devastate me emotionally and mentally, but it is something i would have to accept, simply because 9 years ago i chose to be someone else's property and place my fate in their hands.

that said, the examples posted in the OP read more like internet scams to me.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

As a game? A little hard-core for me, though I definitely see the appeal.

Mmmmm, watching money exchange hands, and not having a say in it, is tingly.

But then, that was more selling services, pimping, than selling selling.

 

[SimonBrooke]

Mmmmm, watching money exchange hands, and not having a say in it, is tingly.

But then, that was more selling services, pimping, than selling selling.

You've been rented out, Lizzie? Would you mind telling us what safety measures you had in place? Did you know who you were going to be rented to? Were there agreed limits on what (s)he could do? Did you have any way of refusing consent? How did you feel about it afterwards? Would you do it again?

 

[StrayKat]

Then they're not doing SM. And that space for really bad abuse isn't dependent on an SM context, it's hiding in plain sight all over.

SM is just as good place for fraud as any other, even more so. Abuse is of course not dependent on any context, people will find a way to abuse in any possible context. I do feel however that SM might be more attractive to potential abusers.

The way I see the matter, assuming its not plain scam or just a game... If I own a slave I do it out of my need to control someones life, be served, humiliate, whatever. Slave belongs to me out of need to serve, be controlled, humiliated etc. In a way it is fair exchange of needs.
If I am selling his obedience and loyalty for cash, not trading them for whatever pleasure I find in owning him, that is simply wrong currency.

Now there is a matter of how we match, just as a matter of trust too. I own that particular slave for some particular reason, because there is something about him that fits me. The slave belongs to me for the same reason. I would not be happy to own a slave that throws himself on any willing woman - I want to be someone very special for him. Just as I choose him, he chooses me too.
And in the end, he trusts me with his life, his physical and mental needs.

I dont see how abandoning such slave for whoever offers more money can be right thing to do. First of all I invested in him much more than any money can buy. Second, I can make money in lot of ways, I cant find my perfect slave just like that. And third, all the training I spent my time and effort on to make him MY slave becomes pointless when he goes off to serve somebody else with different needs and habits. He looses value, my time and effort is lost.

I couldnt take someone who trust me with his life and just exchange him for fur coat first time I get bored or tired with managing that life. No matter how much he might want it. But that is just me, I dont have lot of experience and I am sure there are lot of people who feel different about the subject. It is very individual thing.

 

[CutieMouse]

<snippage>

The way I see the matter, assuming its not plain scam or just a game... If I own a slave I do it out of my need to control someones life, be served, humiliate, whatever. Slave belongs to me out of need to serve, be controlled, humiliated etc. In a way it is fair exchange of needs.
If I am selling his obedience and loyalty for cash, not trading them for whatever pleasure I find in owning him, that is simply wrong currency.

Ah, but what if one wanders down the twisted path of "selling" (temporarily or not) as an expression of service/control/humiliation? Quite the little mindfuck...

Now there is a matter of how we match, just as a matter of trust too. I own that particular slave for some particular reason, because there is something about him that fits me. The slave belongs to me for the same reason. I would not be happy to own a slave that throws himself on any willing woman - I want to be someone very special for him. Just as I choose him, he chooses me too.
And in the end, he trusts me with his life, his physical and mental needs.

And there are those for whom "selling" is part of the specialness... not everyone is into that particular kink; therefore I'd expect finding a partner who is makes the whole thing a bit more special, than not.

I don't see how abandoning such slave for whoever offers more money can be right thing to do. First of all I invested in him much more than any money can buy. Second, I can make money in lot of ways, I cant find my perfect slave just like that. And third, all the training I spent my time and effort on to make him MY slave becomes pointless when he goes off to serve somebody else with different needs and habits. He looses value, my time and effort is lost.

I couldnt take someone who trust me with his life and just exchange him for fur coat first time I get bored or tired with managing that life. No matter how much he might want it. But that is just me, I dont have lot of experience and I am sure there are lot of people who feel different about the subject. It is very individual thing.

I think of selling in more temporary terms, but what if the "selling off" of the pyl is done out of consideration for their future? What if a PYL is ill/dying/unable to care for their pyl in the manner he/she sees fit, and views the "selling" of the pyl is viewed as an extension of the PYL's continued care and attention?

Just a little alternative food for thought...

 

[Etoile]

Ah, but what if one wanders down the twisted path of "selling" (temporarily or not) as an expression of service/control/humiliation? Quite the little mindfuck...

THIS is very very possible. As long as "selling" is in quotes.

 

[WriterDom]

I'm selling Etoile on Ebay. Free shipping!

 

[Etoile]

I'm selling Etoile on Ebay. Free shipping!

PAYPAL REQUIRED!

 

[HisSexyPet]

PAYPAL REQUIRED!

Woot! I got PayPal.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

You've been rented out, Lizzie? Would you mind telling us what safety measures you had in place? Did you know who you were going to be rented to? Were there agreed limits on what (s)he could do? Did you have any way of refusing consent? How did you feel about it afterwards? Would you do it again?

One time, yes. And it was a good number of years ago, so I might be a little fuzzy on some of the details, re: feelings etc, but, I'll think on it some more and come back if anything else comes to mind.

My partner did all the work setting it up. They were swingers, from interstate. He talked with them via email for a bit, checked refs, then met for a drink and further chat while they were in town to suss them out further, and agree upon terms, will do's and will not do's. He covered most of them.

I didn't know about it until they day. We met at their hotel, and chatted further. I had no idea who they were. But I trusted him and his judgement, and I'm also not the type to just salute and throw myself onto the end of a rifle either. I also trust my own judgement, and decided they were fine.

Limits were refreshed in everyone's mind, I added something else that was readily agreed with, and a safeword discussed and agreed upon. I was understandly nervous, first time for that, first time with another woman, but I was assured I'd be looked after. My partner left, he went downstairs for the duration. Several times over the course of a few hours, both he and she, either together or separately, would check in to see if I was happy, comfortable and ok with everything. I believed that they would have stopped should I have also wished it.

Looking back, I recognise that there could have been more safety measures, but we made the call, and not once did I feel uncomfortable, forced, threatened or unhappy with the situation.

Afterwards, I was mostly buzzing. I was quite happy with myself, and with my partner for orchestrating it for me. Due to his circumstances, we did not have a lot of sex, despite his saying that he'd be fine with me fucking other people occasionally, and I'd expressed to him sometime before about some bi curious tendencies. So he sat on that for a while, and found a workable solution, without rushing into anything.

I enjoyed myself. Felt quite liberated and empowered. It did a lot of good for my self esteem. Yes I would do it again.

I hope that covered everything, but it's stupidly late and I may be incoherent.

 

[JMohegan]

Following on from Azuldrgon's thread on 'Loosing a sub', there's a question that's been bothering me for a while, that I'd like to hear other people's take on.

Around my neck of the woods there seems to be something of a trade in slaves. Here's one profile from a certain well known BDSM dating site:



Here's another:



And a third:



So there's a pattern here. It's noticeable that although all three purport to be from central Scotland at least two of them do not show idiomatic English. I have to confess I'm wondering what's going on here. I can construct two or three explanations:

1. This is an extreme form of consensual play, the women involved are actually free agents who are choosing to pretend not to be for play reasons, and if the prospective 'purchaser' was unwelcome to her the 'sale' would not go through
2. This is a scam, essentially based on the idea that sad lonely middle aged men can be persuaded to part with money, and then can't sue to get it back when the 'goods' aren't delivered
3. Someone is effectively brain-washing young women into believing he has the moral right and power to sell them against their will

Is this sort of advert common anywhere else? Does anyone have an opinion about what is actually going on here?

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/slavery.htm

If I had even the slightest suspicion that the attempted sale was genuine, I'd report it at that link.

Other than that, I don't have any comment except to say I lol'd at the notion of a "master that will cater for all my needs," from your first example.

 

[Primalex]

PAYPAL REQUIRED!

Paypal favors the buyer, I would reconsider this.

 

[yourmissl]

[B]http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/slavery.htm[/B]

If I had even the slightest suspicion that the attempted sale was genuine, I'd report it at that link.

Other than that, I don't have any comment except to say I lol'd at the notion of a "master that will cater for all my needs," from your first example.

Thanks for that site JMohegan: will add it to my, "Still Delusional Enough to Think You Can Change the World" favorites.

<sigh> Sorry - that snottiness wasn't directed at you, and I really have added the site - I'm just so bloody sad and tired and pissed at the sheer volume of willful ignorance and evil in the world today.

The second part of your post made me grin, though - that is a real button with you, isn't it?

 

[Etoile]

Paypal favors the buyer, I would reconsider this.

Hey, you think somebody is going to pull a Significantly Not As Described? That might be a problem.

 

[MisterSir]

Hey, you think somebody is going to pull a Significantly Not As Described? That might be a problem.

I dunno, fail to mention the homosexuality and there will probably a pissed buyer

I think. I'm really getting quite awful with remembering who's who and what they like doing, so I could be completely wrong.

 

[Etoile]

the reality is that there is indeed the trading, renting, giving away, and selling of slaves within the M/s lifestyle. it does not make it some elaborate game simply because it is not supported by the law of the land. my Master has the right to sell me if he wishes (tho i sure as heck hope he never wishes)...it is something that would devastate me emotionally and mentally, but it is something i would have to accept, simply because 9 years ago i chose to be someone else's property and place my fate in their hands.

that said, the examples posted in the OP read more like internet scams to me.

As much as I love and respect you, I have to disagree with the bolded statement. If he orders you to live with someone else, and even receives money from that person, it's still not selling. You went willingly to the new person. "Not supported by the law" is not the same thing as blatantly illegal. The fact is, no country in the world allows one human being to legally own another. You cannot sell what isn't legally your property. Just because there would be repercussions if you left doesn't mean you are his legal property. He can do with you as he sees fit, but in no sense can one human ever legally belong to another.

Remember Delia Day? It's come to light now that she was not everything she seemed to be - that the husband was doing most of the writing - but let's pretend that relationship was as genuine as it was portrayed to be. In the end, we saw that he did not own her. As much as their relationship may have seemed like owner/property, he did not own her. She was no less of a slave for this, and he was no less of a master. But he did not own her.

As much fun as it is, as profoundly devoted as we feel to each other, we have to keep some grounding in reality.

 

[anneski]

Brokerage of flesh has always existed, whether out in the open or hidden. I know someone who's mother thought that she was going to be a housekeeper to a wealthy couple in the Middle East, but ended up being a sex slave. And I recently watched a documentary about families in Haiti that sell their children.

So I am not surprised that some slaves in BDSM are sold. It seems there is no end to human depravity and the lack of value we place on life in general. It also appears that there are more people who protest inhumane treatment of animals more than inhumane treatment of human beings. Just my opinion.

That'd be me, as in general, people have a voice and can protest at their treatment, animals can't.

Although yes, I do realise there are exceptions to the 'people have a voice' rule, before some pedant jumps on me.

 

[Etoile]

I dunno, fail to mention the homosexuality and there will probably a pissed buyer

I think. I'm really getting quite awful with remembering who's who and what they like doing, so I could be completely wrong.

Mwahahaha! No, you're completely right!

Just make sure to insure the package please, in case there is breakage during transit...

 

[StrayKat]

Ah, but what if one wanders down the twisted path of "selling" (temporarily or not) as an expression of service/control/humiliation? Quite the little mindfuck...



And there are those for whom "selling" is part of the specialness... not everyone is into that particular kink; therefore I'd expect finding a partner who is makes the whole thing a bit more special, than not.



I think of selling in more temporary terms, but what if the "selling off" of the pyl is done out of consideration for their future? What if a PYL is ill/dying/unable to care for their pyl in the manner he/she sees fit, and views the "selling" of the pyl is viewed as an extension of the PYL's continued care and attention?

Just a little alternative food for thought...

I considered all that but didnt want to write 2 pages long post that would probably end in getting myself confused over wonders of English language

I would say one can wander down the path of strangling a slave in breathe play too, there should be some point where one exercises that wonderful control over oneself and not slave only. No matter how appealing some things are to me I am not going to do them.

For me selling a slave is low, wrong and immoral. If I was dying I wouldnt need the money. If I couldnt care for him I might give him away to someone I find appropriate.

Now mind, my post wasnt talking about games and "selling", I was commenting on selling someone in cold blood to whoever offers more money, out of greed for cash no other motives.

 

[yourmissl]

As much as I love and respect you, I have to disagree with the bolded statement. If he orders you to live with someone else, and even receives money from that person, it's still not selling. You went willingly to the new person. "Not supported by the law" is not the same thing as blatantly illegal. The fact is, no country in the world allows one human being to legally own another. You cannot sell what isn't legally your property. Just because there would be repercussions if you left doesn't mean you are his legal property. He can do with you as he sees fit, but in no sense can one human ever legally belong to another.

Remember Delia Day? It's come to light now that she was not everything she seemed to be - that the husband was doing most of the writing - but let's pretend that relationship was as genuine as it was portrayed to be. In the end, we saw that he did not own her. As much as their relationship may have seemed like owner/property, he did not own her. She was no less of a slave for this, and he was no less of a master. But he did not own her.

As much fun as it is, as profoundly devoted as we feel to each other, we have to keep some grounding in reality.

Anyone told you today they love you, Etoile? 'Cause I do - just for saying all this in a way I wanted to but was incapable of just now.

 

[CutieMouse]

Now mind, my post wasnt talking about games and "selling", I was commenting on selling someone in cold blood to whoever offers more money, out of greed for cash no other motives.

Whereas I was thinking more in terms of "renting" than "selling" - if one wants to be technical about it... There's a deliciously sick dichotomy to knowing one may be treasured and adored, yet cheerfully handed over to the lowest bidder.

 

[StrayKat]

Whereas I was thinking more in terms of "renting" than "selling" - if one wants to be technical about it... There's a deliciously sick dichotomy to knowing one may be treasured and adored, yet cheerfully handed over to the lowest bidder.

Hey, I am not saying that it would not be just lovely if I could go to some kind of slave market and pick and choose and get myself some yummy looking barbarian.
Actually its one of my favorite fantasies, I so think I was born some 2 000 years too late

It just fades into something completely different when I transfer it to today and plain money greed.

 

[Etoile]

Anyone told you today they love you, Etoile? 'Cause I do - just for saying all this in a way I wanted to but was incapable of just now.

Aw, thanks!

 

[yourmissl]

Hey, I am not saying that it would not be just lovely if I could go to some kind of slave market and pick and choose and get myself some yummy looking barbarian.
Actually its one of my favorite fantasies, I so think I was born some 2 000 years too late
It just fades into something completely different when I transfer it to today and plain money greed.

Mine too - though from a different side of the auction block.

< drops eyes, blushes, & smiles >

 

[yourmissl]

Aw, thanks!

You are very welcome.